BBC 5Live got into a bit of bother yesterday for asking if Paris St Germain’s domestic domination is turning the French league into the SPFL. PSG (60) are 21 points ahead of second place Monaco (39) in Ligue Un and could win the title next month. Celtic, of course, are only 6 points clear in the Scottish Premiership and will not win the title until April.
The pertinent point that 5Live were a bit clumsy in making is that PSG, who will win four-in-a-row this year, and Celtic, won will win five-in-a-row, are competing in one horse races. Karl Heinz Rummenigge made a similar point about Bayern Munich earlier this month (an example 5Live could also have used). Bayern are 8 points clear and also on their way to four-in-a-row.
Then there’s Juventus, who, like Celtic, hope to win five-in-a-row this season. Juve had a horrible start to the season but 11 league wins on the bounce have seen them close to within 2 points of Napoli at the top of Serie A.
Basel are 10 clear and on their way to seven-in-a-row in Switzerland, while Red Bull’s money will collect a third consecutive Austrian title for Salzburg this year.
Ajax are not quite there, having only won four of the last five titles, but Dutch football has been shrinking in competitive terms for over 3 decades (Ajax and PSV between them have won all but 3 titles in 31 years). Anderlecht, who have won three in four in Belgium, are also a little short of complete domination.
England’s different, no one has retained the title since 2009 and it’s not going to happen this year. Spain have seen a change of winner in the last four years and, with the world’s two biggest clubs, are likely to remain competitive, while Benfica and Porto are still nip and tuck in Portugal. These three are the outliers of Western European football.
Reality is that three of the ‘big five’ European leagues, and many others, are no longer competitive. Successful clubs know how to stay ahead of their peers, there are several formulas to help them. Permanently breaking this domination has never been more difficult.
Scottish football is not an uncompetitive outlier, it’s the new norm. The same questions being asked about Celtic are also being asked about dominant teams across the Continent. What football does about it is another story. Keep your eye on Rummenigge. He’s ambitious and wants to change things.
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TRADITIONALIST88 on 28TH JANUARY 2016 10:45 AM
‘Celtic will comment when the time is right and the little tantrums being thrown on here will seem futile.’
####
Just out of curiosity how much time will have to elapse before you accept that Celtic aren’t going to be making any comment?
Six months?
A year?
Five years?
Ten years?
I’m keeping my powder dry for a few months, by then I’m sure things will be more clearer and then it’s make your mind time, as I said yesterday this same club myth can’t keep flying about up there it has to land at some point, and in two months maybe even sooner it should land one way or another.
The rush to make it all things Celtic is just silly and would only hinder matters and would be playing into the Huns, SFA, SPFL, and SMSM hands, if the other fan groups in Scotland don’t get involved? Then that is there decision and things will go along as they are IMO, but a statement from CFC is not going to make them jump up and get into it, far from it, why aren’t any of the other clubs board not saying anything? Do you think these CEOs and directors don’t talk to each other? Of course they do, when the time is right I think it will happen, but now is not the time IMO. Patience Is a virtue they say.
TALLYBHOY
That will be them! His older sister taught in the Languages Dept at St Andrews,Saltcoats. Really nice family.
Ernie
If Celtic have been advised by their legal team to say nothing at this stage, do you think they should ignore that advice?
HH.
Canamalar
The establishment were anti-Celtic – the fact the Lisbon Lions struggled for caps was evidence alone of inherent bias.
You are right though in that previous generations of Celtic supporters would not be the least bit surprised at any of this.
The internet age has led to a lot of people demanding instant gratification and hoping Celtic turn the screw but there is a process ongoing and punishing Celtic is no solution – we are not the governing body but can comment when the time is right.
HH
Beamishismypint on 28th January 2016 10:31 am
Hope we strengthen now with a view to CL . Ronny talking about waiting until the summer is like what has gone before and that certainly hasn’t worked in August.
………………………………………………………………….
Is that it then, one unfit defender?
Greenpinata,
“Ps : If I got this right. GG voted to remain as we are, thus he voted yes for fan ownership.”
You know you got it wrong, as you know we are not owned by fans, we are owned by corporate investment, you can try and claim DD is a fan and I will dispute that, we have more shares owned through corporate investment than supporters.
AD GG did not say remain as we are, provide the quote.
ernie lynch on 28th January 2016 10:58 am
TRADITIONALIST88 on 28TH JANUARY 2016 10:45 AM
‘Celtic will comment when the time is right and the little tantrums being thrown on here will seem futile.’
####
Just out of curiosity how much time will have to elapse before you accept that Celtic aren’t going to be making any comment?
Six months?
A year?
Five years?
Ten years?
================
What do you want Celtic to say right now? They have confirmed they agree with the need to bin any Old Firm pandering that the tabloids will run with.
If your issue is with the SFA then I don’t think witholding funds from Celtic is a particularly effective way of getting your message across.
GREENPINATA on 28TH JANUARY 2016 11:00 AM
Ernie
If Celtic have been advised by their legal team to say nothing at this stage, do you think they should ignore that advice?
###
Where do you get the idea that this is the sort of thing that a lawyer would be asked to advise on?
The legal question is whether they are or are not a new club.
Once that question is answered the lawyer can go back to the pub/golf course/crossword and it’s then up to the Board to decide what they do. That’s their job.
I doubt if that fan ownership thingie is a gauge on what the fans think, I’v voted three times on it and it accepted my vote three times, IMO it’s a non starter,and cant possibly give a proper indication on the fans feelings.
ernie lynch said:
“Celtic are never going to make a statement. We all know that. Why pretend otherwise? ”
Unlike ernie to be so spectacularly wrong.
JJ
Good Morning,
A number of things to cover.
First
Here is an official statement from Graham Spiers
https://spiersstatement2016.wordpress.com/
See what he is saying quite clearly.
Second
The very fact that after God alone knows how many years those in charge of Parks Motor Group have had to threaten the Glasgow Herald tells you all that you need to know about brand association between a well run car dealership and transport group and a toxic sporting brand.
I know it is really easy to associate anyone with a Rangers connection as being a bigot or as someone who supports bigotry. However that is far too a simple a perspective.
Whilst it is really disappointing that Parks decided to take any action re the Herald – this entire affair only brings about negative publicity for the motor group.
On the one hand, the directors of their company cannot be associated with any suggestion by anyone that the “Billy boys is a great song” – although it should be noted that Spiers does not attribute the quote to anyone involved in the Parks group — and it could be perceived that if they stay silent on the matter then they are seen to adopt a sectarian attitude.
Staying silent is one thing – however flexing the financial muscles at the Herald in an attempt to kill the story was a stupid, aggressive and ill advised strategy as it only serves to attract further negative comment.
I know from one of the features editors at the Herald that he has been asked to cut his staff budget by 40% – which means that the Herald is under serious financial strain and can ill afford to lose the Parks advertising buck.
However, given that Parks has to fight their corner against Henry Bros, Merecedes Glasgow and other mainline dealerships in the high end market I could not foresee then being absent from the Herald for long.
The whole thing emphasises why many Scottish businessmen cannot afford to be associated with the Ibrox bile and chose to walk away from Rangers over the last 25 years — and they ain’t coming back.
Third
David Weir — always remember that Weir was part of a Hearts team that was deliberately dismanteled by David Murray and the Bank of Scotland.
After winning the Scottish Cup at Celtic park and beating Advocaat’s Rangers in the new season, Jim Jeffries could have expected to strengthen his Hearts Squad and make a real challenge.
For reasons that still remain a mystery to this day, the bank put pressure on the Hearts board to sell 5 players – 3 of whom ended up at Ibrox ( the most infamous being Neil McCann ) and another two (including Weir) were sold to Everton where the new manager was the ex Ibrox manager – one Walter Smith!
Remember too that you have never EVER heard the full EBT story – go figure!
By the way of the Hearts players who went to Ibrox – one never played a single game and was sold on to Southampton after only ten weeks!
The whole point was to de-stabilise the Jambos.
I have no doubt that Davie Weir is a nice guy but he has been lead by the nose down a track for well over 20 years.
Lastly
Last night Auldheid invited me to comment on the lack of a Celtic statement re the shenanigans at Ibrox and the SFA.
Well, I could write from now to midnight about that with ease – but thankfully won’t!
This is very difficult because on the one hand i am very keen that Celtic come out and, John Reid like, declare that the SFA is not fit for purpose and that they don’t play with a straight bat. With regard to matters at Ibrox, whilst a similar tactic is tempting, I know that there were real concerns, based on real incidents, about employee safety and Celtic’s duty to those employees.
It was made very plain to me in person that those concerns were of paramount importance and that very serious and high level advice had been taken, and acted upon, with regard to employee safety and protection in the face of what was described as a very real threat at the time.
How great that threat is today I don’t know but it will not be nil and can be escalated by events.
However, in the interim period I think it is safe to say that it has been shown to all reasonable people that both Craig Whyte and Charles Green were more interested in feathering their own nests and had no real interest in the Ibrox club or in Scottish Football in general.
At the time, however, no one supporting Rangers wanted to hear that message and no one at the SFA was prepared to countenance more bad news for Rangers especially if that news came from Celtic. To this day there is still a mentality that prefers any Ibrox related issue to be seen as a Celtic v Rangers issue as some thing that whole attitude will eventually promote greater footballing rivalry and television revenue in due course.
I have been told to my face that Celtic will not play that game and don’t want to be part of that cabal.
Now, lest the above statement is seen as supporting the board’s attitude on this let me correct any such notion.
I do believe that Celtic should have said more thus far and that they have the corporate brains who can make that kind of thing happen. I am not a fan of their PR – though it has improved over the last couple of years- but can always improve further.
However, what I will say is this: Within the personnel of the Celtic board and their periphery, there are people with all the skills to do proper due diligence on any individual, corporate set up, company or oragnisation.
Leaving political persuasion aside — between Dermot Desmond, Peter Lawwell, Lord Livingstone, Eric Riley, Brian Wilson, Brian Quinn and others — Celtic have the ability to gather and collect data and reports on the wealth, business activity, and practices of any business person especially if they claim to be of substance and size.
So bear that in mind when I repeat that I was told a couple of years ago that those at Celtic looked at matters Ibrox and said ” we have no idea what is going to happen there. You just can’t know whether they will even be in business in 6 months time or who will turn up to the next meeting, or who has agreed what with who within their own company. There is huge doubt. The only thing you can say is that no business plan which relies on Rangers can be undertaken or depended upon.”
Murray and Whyte made Rangers PLC a totally unstable ship.
The current entity would be appear to be just as unstable under Green/Whyte, King and anyone else associated with that business.
The SFA don’t know what to do — as can be seen from recent events re EK v Celtic and the ticket allocation re St Johnstone and Hibs — The SFA and the SPL are hopeless, clueless, dimwitted organisations who scramble from crisis to crisis.
More and more you can see clubs and managers tear apart their inept statements and practices.
Celtic in recent years have said very little believing that saying nothing – exercising the violence of silence if you like – is better than coming out with all guns blazing and stirring the pot. Instead they hope that everyone will be able to see the picture for themselves.
The court cases, and the public warning from the crown office that they are not to be discussed openly in detail, makes the policy of saying little easier to justify.
However another, rather unfortunate, word for silence is dumb — and you can’t stay dumb forever!
Traaditionalist88,
I know fine well there is a process going, I am part of it however I dont believe we should simply sit back and wait and see, as you suggest we do.
I believe we should be applying the pressure from all angles, on our club, on the SFA, on the SPFL, on UEFA and on the meeja.
It may appear to be demanding instant gratification but it is simply letting everyone know we are willing to force the issue at all levels to demand justice and we will not be distracted or misdirected, nor will we simply forget anything happened if they refuse provide justice.
Its that simple, when everyone knows what is expected including our board then if they fail to provide then they are fully responsible for the consequence as it applies to them.
We know we won’t plan for CL. We know that if 10m comes in for Griffiths he will be told to go
No planning no team to complete with lower teams in Europe
How long can our failing CEO go on
TRADITIONALIST88 on 28TH JANUARY 2016 11:07 AM
‘What do you want Celtic to say right now?’
That they reject the same club narrative. They should have said so right from the start.
###
‘They have confirmed they agree with the need to bin any Old Firm pandering that the tabloids will run with.’
No they haven’t.
#####
‘If your issue is with the SFA then I don’t think witholding funds from Celtic is a particularly effective way of getting your message across.’
My issue is with Celtic. Because I am/was a Celtic fan. The SFA, the huns, the SMSM have all behaved exactly as I would have expected them to behave. Celtic haven’t, and that’s the issue for me. It’s maybe too subtle for some to understand, in which case fair enough. But some get it.
http://thehoopsblog.com/2016/01/28/why-celtic-should-avoid-signing-this-former-arsenal-youngster/
Canamalar
They are well aware that those involved in ‘No to Newco’ havent gone away. Its not just Celtic supporters. Fans up and down the country know the situation.
The fact is because the new Rangers may be in the top flight next season, emotions have heightened.
However, this was always a possibility. But its not like they are to pick up from the height of their corruption a few years ago.
It doesn’t change the fundamentals. Lots will come out over the next couple of years. It would be amateurish for Celtic to react to every claim made in the meantime.
In the intervening period, if you have an issue with the licensing body, hit them where it hurts, not Celtic.
HH
BROGAN ROGAN TREVINO AND HOGAN SUPPORTS OSCAR KNOX, MACKENZIE FURNISS AND ANYONE ELSE WHO FIGHTS NEUROBLASTOMA on 28TH JANUARY 2016 11:11 AM
Would I be right in thinking that the football authorities accept the same club narrative, that the club playing at Ibrox has been allocated the honours of the former club and that the longer that is allowed to continue the less likely it is to be reversed?
In which case would a policy of judicious silence not possibly amount to acquiescence and connivance?
When Celtic played Newclub last year, did they exchange pennants the way clubs who play each other for the first time normally do? Or does that tadition not happen any more?
How many Celtic players in press conferences have mentioned having the Newclub back in the top league? How many have not done so or avoided the question when it has been asked? What did the club website say about that first game between the two clubs and how they did refer to matches between the youth clubs?
I think the answers to those questions help to explain the feelings of people on here. They feel Celtic are talking the talk but not walking the walk and judging Celtic’s future behaviour on what they see has happened in the past.
Celtic might not talk about the Old Firm in the future, however the issue is more than that, it concerns how the newclub are named and treated by Celtic fc
Traditionalist88,
I am hitting them where it huts or at least trying to but you must not forget the board have and had a responsibility to protect the interests of the shareholders a responsibility they have had to be reminded of.
Remember their initial response to Res12 was to vote against it.
Canamalar
This is what GG stated. Sort of muddies the water on the survey.
——————————
“‘GG on 24TH JANUARY 2016 5:12 PM
Canamalar
I voted on the fan ownership survey.
Family or fan ownership is an easy choice.
Do we not have fan ownership at the moment?
Isn’t that what Fergus left us?”
———————————————-
HH to you.
–
There was some talk on here yesterday about the hope that one day Celtic would play in a League outwith SFA/SPFL input. I would like such an outcome but I wonder what fans of other Clubs would think. Would they be glad because League Titles would become more achievable for their own clubs or would they be annoyed because Celtic had `turned its back on Scottish football` ?
JJ
Celtic need to say fooqaw imo
Celtic is us.you and me.
you and I do not think the hun is the same club.
you and i will not authenticate them.
we are Celtic
i see no reason for my club to be associated with or comment on whatever is going on elsewhere.
it only gives them oxygen as their identity/insecurity is based on hate of us and our ongoing success.
HH
Greenpinata,
His remark was a question not a statement which is different from what you interpreted from that discussion, no ?
And I reminded him of the corporate investors which he accepted but you obviously don’t.
Dharmabam
I am one of those willing to wait a little longer but you make some excellent points. The `Waiting Game` would be much easier to accept if the players were briefed on the apparent `No Old Firm` policy of the Club.
JJ
Lego does 1916….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?sns=fb&v=QRZxAdz206Y
An Tearmann,
google this
“most successful Scottish football club”
Then tell me who are the most successful Scottish football club ?
Canamalar it looks like OCD obsession on 28th January 2016 11:32 am
Traditionalist88,
I am hitting them where it huts or at least trying to but you must not forget the board have and had a responsibility to protect the interests of the shareholders a responsibility they have had to be reminded of.
Remember their initial response to Res12 was to vote against it.
=====================
Canamalar
I believe they were presented with new information after initially voting against?
Anyway, we all appreciate the work being done mate – but on the same club myth, this is not a situation Celtic had any power over. Its obvious to every other Scottish football fan the club is new. No other clubs have felt the need to confirm this.
There is so much more still to come that the best time to comment will be when we have all the facts.
In the meantime, our actions will speak louder – there will be none of the Old Firm marketing that the tabloids will be craving.
HH
I’m sure that many of us got our Coop loan to buy shares when Fergus asked us and still hold them. We certainly did in my family so we have 4 owners of Celtic who are fans. We agree on some things disagree on others. I’d say 2 out of 4 nearly always support the board, two vary depending on the issue but are in no way anti-board. Don’t make the assumption that having fan ownership would change what we do now. I’d guess that almost everyone on this site is a fan but the debates and disagreements are there for all to see. #herdingcats
STRIP THE TITLES:)
HH
JJHS,
Thank you, I don’t often feel I can make pertinent remarks on here which add to the discussion, its usually bad puns or exceedingly tasteful music links (!).
I am willing to wait a little longer also and I believe that there will come a point when Celtic will have to make their position known re Newclub (NOT Newco!). I just hope that Celtic aren’t the only ones doing so and that Celtic’s previous silence and previous referrals to “Rangers” instead of “The Rangers” isn’t compromising.
Traditiionalist88,
Very glad to hear that Celtic will have nothing to do with the Old Firm tag. What’s Celtic’s position on what to call this Newclub?
I believe that’s the issue people are interested in on here, just as much if not more than the Old Firm phrase.
Traditionalist88,
They never voted against, they wanted to, until they were advise of our information which was not so new, this made them change their decision, on responsibility to shareholders requirements. Remember as far as they were concerned they had dealt with the issue.
They sent a letter and got told to run along the big boys were dealing with it.
On the same club myth it affects our brand and attraction if we cannot command the respect as the most successful club in Scotland which we are however the SFA and the SPFL accredit the new club as the most successful club in Scotland, why is our Plc accepting this ?
Dharma Bam
Slightly off topic. All posts and posters are equal in my eyes and each post is valued equally.
Your remarks or opinions contribute to a healty and vibrant blog, as do all who post on here.
Providing all posts meet the parameters that Paul 67 has set, then bring them all on.
Hail, Hail.
If Celtic (genuinely) felt anxious on the grounds of security about making a clarification statement on matters when Sevco were playing in the lower divisions, and unlikely to meet Celtic competitively, how much less predisposed are they likely to be about making such a statement as Sevco get closer to playing in the top league?
The sleeping dog that is Sevco’s genesis will not be awoken by Celtic any time soon.
Those hoping for a statement, beyond that noted in the official history of the club, will be waiting a long time.
GodotCSC
Dharma
” All remaks are pertinent but some are more pertinent than others.’
GeorgeOrwellCSC ( or EricArthurBlairpedantsCSC )
Cheerio for now,
JJ
Can an opinion be wrong ?
An opinion does not have to be factual, it is just a personal belief.
Therefore can it ever be wrong?
Confusedcsc.
TBB
” Those hoping for a statement, beyond that noted in the official history of the club, will be waiting a long time. -”
Did Auldheid not say that a Statement would be forthcoming by April? Will the Court cases be over by then?
JJ