Looking back it’s easy to spot; that moment when an imperious manager peaks before tumbling over the edge, but at the time this moment is almost impossible to see. The moment Jock Stein peered over the mountain was absolutely impossible to identify at the time.
Celtic qualified for the 1970 European Cup final by beating English champions, Leeds United, home and away, and were hot favourites to lift the trophy for the second time in four seasons. They were about to win their fifth consecutive league title and would go on to make record a world record nine-in-a-row, meaning there was a mountain of ‘evidence’ obscuring the peak from view.
We were the most feared side in football in April 1970 but that team’s time as a European heavyweight was over. Stein remained a further eight seasons but he never beat another team from one of the large European leagues. A 1975 win over a relatively obscure Boavista was his best result* in the period before he was replaced in 1978.
The reverence Jock is rightly held in by all Celtic fans now was tested during the 70s when I remember tactics and even minor decisions, like substitutions, were being questioned by large sections of the support. It all ended in ignominy in 1978, fifth in the league and sacked in a clumsy and misleading fashion.
Jock was still a good manager and did well with Scotland but he should have moved on from Celtic years earlier.
Fans of other clubs will always see the moment of inflection before those too close to the event, but even Arsenal fans are now politely making the case that their once-supreme manager is no longer suitable for purpose. Anyone suggesting that Arsene Wenger was finished in 2004 would have been certified. His team had just won the league undefeated, the first team to do so since the 19th century. They won the FA Cup on penalties the following season and reached the Champions League final a year after that, but they have not lifted a trophy since 2005. Wenger was a fine 2004 vintage but has disappointed since.
After a slow start at Manchester United, Alex Ferguson has managed to remain at the top for 20 years. His most important ability appears to be to know when to change coaches, players and tactics. It has long been said that the best managers were not great players as they needed to acquire a conscious insight on the game which gifted players inherently knew. Perhaps enduringly great managers are not even tactical geniuses, it’s more important that they can just spot a few.
Ordered the CQN Annual yet? Get it here in time for Christmas!
Remember being a teenager?** The excitement of waiting for news of the latest pop charts was big news for some. You can relive your youth buy BUYING ROD STEWART’S single before Sunday.
* In European competition, between beating Leeds and when Jock left in 1978, Celtic eliminated Kokkola, Waterford, B1903 Copenhagen, Sliema Wanderers, Ujpest Doza, Rosenborg, Turku, Vejle, Basel, Valur, Boavista and Jeunesse d’Esch. They lost to Ajax, Inter Milan, Ujpest Doza, Atletico Madrid, Olympiakos, Sachsenring Zwickau and Wisla Krakow. And Feyenoord, of course.
** CQN demographics suggest for most of you, your teenage years are now a distant memory.
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Happy birthday Martin( Kano) have a great day with your family.
HH
BSR,
Bobby is certainly a Celtic great and his place is assured in any list of greats.
I’m not one for Greatest Teams nonsense, as players belong to different eras and each great player heeds not so great players alongside them.
I would have shown him the SS, but I could never catch up with him!
The boy jinky.
Charlie is doin well.
When he retired he forgot to take his press cuttings of when Celtic were interested in signing him.
I met him in Spain were he’s been living for the past ten years and
handed them to him,his eyes welled
up.hh
I suppose Kenny Shiels wil be the next Scotland manager now.
kikinthenakas 18:13 it would have cost you £4,000 if the thing had started. Engine rebuild.
dear lord please look after those poor souls..
Sorry I missed Gerard Butler on the One Show – but in a similar vein, do you think ole Mick Jagger has been taking a bit of interest in Scoddish fitba…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPFGWVKXxm0
Happy Birthday to Martin Kane.
The CQN nightshift is missing the posts of its most passionate defender of Celtic.
I hope you still get pleasure from reading CQN but I know there will be lots of stuff posted that you would want to set straight.
Roll on the day when that can happen.
another prequiz question
name an orangeman Celtic player
thomthethim
Know what you about era’s can’t be done Stanley Matthews v Lionel Messi.
My one and only corporate was with ‘The Buzz Bomb’ as mine host, and he is
as modest and gentlemanly as he was prolific.
garcia lorca at 18:19
Glad (?) we agree on the importance of that lost title in Milan
;o(
However, for me, before that the defeat that hurt me most was the 63 cup final.
Young team, relatively unlucky at 1-1 on the Saturday, hammered 3-0 in the replay.
I was 9 at the time, my hurt was minor compared to those around me who were indeed going thru the barren period.
After the draw in the final, the destination of the Cup was a forgone conclusion.
My education began…
“we’ve missed our chance – we won’t be allowed to win it now”
I didn’t understand initially, but later – maybe a couple of years later – it became obvious.
For anybody interested, do a bit of research of the number of games Celtic had to play between the final (4th May) and the replay (15 May)…
I doubt that the merest thought of an “extension” would have occurred to Bob Kelly.
Enjoy our time that is happening NOW.
They are still here, we can laugh at their predicament and rightly so, but we won’t be allowed to do so for long … and yes this is the 21st century in a country that has ambitions of independence.
Gardez la Foi
Just got my CQN annual through the door….
Great read…. Advise everyone who has not bought one to pick up a copy!
I’m so proud! It has *the king vic 67*along with others at the bottom of the page…..
Makes you feel like you are a member of the “elite Internet bampot club”
Thanks P67
Dallo
Dallas
Dallat
Dallamus
Dallatus
Dallant
I fabricate, you fabricate, he/she or it fabricates, etc etc
andrew67
19:49 on 14 December, 2012
Shocking and tragic.
Thoughts tonight are with all involved.
That news breaking from USA is just totally sickening. More so (for me anyway) the week before Christmas. And whilst any killing is abhorrent, it always seems even worse when it’s young children involved. Tragic.
canamalar
Bertie Peacock
HH!!
St Stivs
Is Davie a CQN- et, I wonder. He’s a class act with an encyclopaedic knowledge and total recall.. Not to mention a truck load of compusure and dry with. I notice he never gets challenged..
bournesouprecipe
19:54 on 14 December, 2012
_____________________________________
I know he did.
But, you have to admit…at the time it just looked like
typical – Gory-Grieg. imo
HH
Its no wonder the present UK government said no to a public inquiry into Pat Finucanes murder
They did not want to open this particular Pandora’s box with its implications for all Catholics within the UK state
I am optimistic that one day a UK government will have the balls to face its demons and give the brave and brilliant Finucane family their totally justified public inquiry
In their case its been proved “paranoia” really means someone is out to get you
http://www.patfinucaneinquiry.com/
Orangeman Celtic player
Rab Douglas
Mark Brown
Berti Peacock
John Dowie
Tom Mcadam
Ally Hunter
Evening Bhoys.
Just logged on ,cba to read back -sorry ! Any notice of quiz tonight ?
Thoughts & Prayers for the
American Folk.
So sad.
YNWA
kevj
one missing and a great wee story to go with him
Orangemen Celtic players ,not sure – but do know an orange man who used to manage dunfermline and aberdeen :0)
HH.
Tragic beyond words,
This has probably been posted today, so apologies
Manchester City’s £97.9m loss will test Uefa fair play rules
• Clubs in Europe allowed £45m loss between 2011-13
• City indicate they will rely on Uefa exemptions
The Guardian, Friday 14 December 2012 19.13 GMT
Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour has bankrolled Roberto Mancini’s lavish spending but Uefa could sanction the club. Photograph: Martin Rickett/PA
Manchester City will present a stern test for Uefa’s new financial fair play rules when they come into force for the 2014-15 season after the club announced a loss of £97.9m for the last financial year. Uefa rules allow clubs in European competitions to make a total loss of €45m between 2011 and 2013, if that loss is bankrolled by an owner. So, City’s loss for 2011-12 alone is almost treble the figure allowed.
The club indicated it will rely on Uefa’s detailed exemptions in the hope of complying. The ultimate sanction for a flagrant breach of the rules, which are aimed at stabilising European football’s finances, is exclusion from continental competition.
The rules allow a club to deduct from their losses money spent on infrastructure – mainly their stadium and youth academy. City are building a £140m training campus on 80 acres near their Etihad Stadium, but the bulk of the construction has not yet been done and so that expenditure does not eat far into the £97.9m loss.
The exemption on which City are set to rely begins with an allowance Uefa will make if a club’s losses are higher than €45m for the 2011-13 years, but are being steadily reduced. City have halved their loss from the £197m, the highest ever in English football, in 2010-11, so will show Uefa that positive “trend”. In this 2012-13 year, despite exiting the Champions League at the group stage, City will again expect to diminish the loss by increasing their income from commercial sponsorships and reducing costs by being prudent in the transfer market.
If that trend is happening, clubs can escape a Uefa sanction if they can show their overall loss is higher than the €45m allowed only because they made a loss in 2011-12 caused by the wages of players’ contracts signed before 1 June 2010. That is vitally important to City, who did heavily invest in several top players, including Gareth Barry, Joleon Lescott and the £200,000-per-week Carlos Tevez, before that date.
City, whose spending is bankrolled by the oil-based fortunes of Sheikh Mansour of Abu Dhabi, made their £97.9m loss despite increasing income to £231.1m during their Premier League title-winning season. Mansour invested a further £169m to subsidise the spending, principally on players and wages, taking his investment in City to almost exactly £1bn since he bought City from Thaksin Shinawatra in 2008.
Announcing the figures, City said with confidence: “The application of allowable reliefs, for certain categories of expenditure and investment, position the club well for compliance with Uefa’s financial fair play rules.”
That will be assessed in the spring of 2014, so Uefa’s view will depend on these accounts, and City’s 2012-13 financial performance.
Headtheball @ 20:05 – Nice one HTB !
Took me back through the mists of time though, being of that vintage that Paul alluded to in today’s article “…your teenage years are now a distant memory.”.
Our mad Latin teacher at HCA (embra) used to bounce a pointer on his desk as a metronome for verb conjugations – and if you got it wrong he just hurled it across the classroom at you – ah the heady days of secondary education – Higher in Latin verbs and ducking quick !!
KevJungle
Yip, I was there – but Celtic and Bobby Lennox rose above it.
Contrast with Davy Provan the Rangers left back who broke a leg in a tangle with a Celtic player, and behind the scenes the referee was literally retired, because he failed to punish the Celtic player.
Americans put a man on the moon but they can’t take guns out of their society because it is written into their “sacrosanct” constitution the right to bare arms.
Which makes me wonder why you can take your gun down the mall or on the way to school and yet while space bound you have to leave your weapon at home
Maybe they just don’t trust astronauts with guns
Emeraldbee,
There is a good Indian restaurant in the boulevard hotel,also a new Italian restaurant opened by the owner of Oran mor,don’t know what age the visitors are but there is a scotkart in clydebank
BT- if you still about, you owe me a pint! Advised 6 people to appeal today instead of JSA. You got a business card? OJ:-)
Gonna remind your clients that no-one will get their money stopped from the 17th! (Well until NY at any rate).
Keep up the good work.
HH
thomthethim
19:58 on 14 December, 2012
I suppose Kenny Shiels wil be the next Scotland manager now.
_____________________________________________________
I hope that when Neil was talking about
managing in the EPL one day that
he wizny softening us up for an
announcement that – he’s for the off ?
If Neil ever leave’s us….I wouldn’t be surprised
to see Kenny Sheils being given the Celtic job.
Talking about the Scotland job…big Leveine
should have had the Celtic job before BTM. imo
At that time – Leveine’s stock was high. imo
Only saying
Tin Helmet – CSC
kevj..,
just checked with my oracle, sorry pal they were masons, none orangemen
embramike
That sounds just like my experience only it was a ruler against a pillar and a wooden blackboard duster hurled across the room.
I will remember porto, portas, portat until the day I die!
someone on here has the orangeman as his blog name
Couple of Tweets I just noticed.
From NFL.. Had a blowout on the motorway, gutted, getting drenched.
From Chris Evans.. Just confirming that Gerard Butler hasn’t drunk for years and that responses were divided over his appearance. Now that doesn’t come as a surprise after his Zombie reference !! lol
bournesouprecipe
20:19 on 14 December, 2012
________________________________________
The ref widny happen to be – Jim Callaghan ? (That’s my Granda’s name)
Oh…and, away before my time :o)
Timelord – CSC
ok this should be the dead give away
he’s the longest serving Celtic player in our hostory