AEK Athens are a far sterner test than Celtic or Rosenborg would want in the Champions League third qualification round. Last year they despatched Brugge 3-0 on aggregate from the Europa League qualifiers before drawing home and away against AC Milan. They left the tournament in the first knock out round on the away goals rule to Dynamo Kiev.
On the positive side, they are preseason and the third round will be their first competitive games since May. Although they are a famous European name, last season was their first domestic title in 24 years, when the interrupted Olympiacos’ domination of football in Greece.
Should we overcome Rosenborg, this would be a big task for Celtic. AEK will be favourites, no matter who they face.
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TT
I agree that Comperr, thus far, looks like a waste of money.
As was Boerigter and Pukki and Freddie Lljunberg.
The funny thing that , at least 3 of those were welcomed here as “non-projects” as they were proven perfomers in seemingly bigger leagues.
I accept that Sydney Tim sounded warnings on Pukki, gained from his German mates, as I recall, which proved accurate as far as Pukki in a Celtic shirt was concerned. However he has gone on to score 55 in 130 matches for Brondby so evaluations of his numptiness as a signing may be premature. Interesting to see if he reverts to type at Norwich which is not a Nordic country as far as I am aware.
Tiny Tim was also sounding warning bells on Boerigter early on though, unfortunately, not before he was signed. So far that’s at least one and a half right out of 2 as far as mineshafter opinion is conerned.
However I have no recollection of any warnings about Comperr (or Lljunberg) from any source until he was a few months in and unselected after a modest display against Morton. Yes, he had had injuries in germany but he had come back from each one and re-established in a tough league. There were no great warning bells against either his temperament or his injuries so I think it’s harsh to use hindsight to condemn the scout and the manager who recommended and approved the signing.
We were all agreed that we needed an older head from a competitive league. He fitted the bill as a cheap-ish veteran to guide the younger lads but he has, thus far, been a dud and it looks like he will not alter that standing.
That’s why I say they are all projects- even John Terry.
He could go the Kolo Toure route of looking like just what we needed but soon proving that he was, actually, past it- who knows?
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOXon 9:55 PM
Cracking post
Historically strong leagues such as Holland, Scotland even Hungary (more so) have fallen behind the TV Cash rich leagues.
A reality that some find difficult to digest.
Lobbying of UEFA is required for 2 things
A. To change the Champions league name back to the European cup
However
B. Change the format back to the original
4 leagues of 10 teams
Home and away
Top teams from each league go into the semi finals
These extended games midweek should generate more financially
WITS I have finished that book, leave an address at appingary@aol.com and I will send it on.I am
SuperS
I think we would all like to play against the big boys, getting spanked by them not so much, it goes without saying that the biggest majority of supporters would relish the chance to play in the big boys playground every season, getting there is getting harder year on year, I understand that, but we need to give ourselfs the best chance of the cash, after all it’s all the suits care about at the end of the day and they are not going about it in the right manner imo.
We don’t make the CL we sell, we sell we struggle to make the CL next season, so we sell again, we then struggle to make the EL so we sell again, we can’t attract a better quality player, the crowds drop and the downward spiral carry’s on regardless, tis a vicious circle, can we stop it, sure we can, the club are spending serious cash for scant return imo, it could be much better spent, our scouting imo is garbage, I think Brendan is a wonderful coach, but his choice of scout is woeful imo as are some of the recruits under his tenure.
HH
…………………………
Anyways, it’s tomorrow now so sleep well Timland
HH
WITS: you, me and many others.
John Creedon had a tv program earlier in the year along the lines of the ‘last hundred years’ in Ireland.
The various objects brought to the program included said leather belt.
The thing is, the person who brought it to the the program makers is the parent of a past pupil of mine.
Thosedaysaregonethanksbetogodcsc
MadMitch
A very generous and pertinet reply with a lot of good points about coaching.
I remain sceptical of the “cringe/lack of poitivity & belief” explanation. We are the same nationality and team that beat Barca and drew with Man City but also lost to Red Imps and Artmedia.
Inconsistency of approach may be an issue but we have had good results amongst the bad. Positivity can only take you so far (limited players like Stephen McManus, Gary Caldwell and Peter Grant) got by by being combative and positive but, in the end, you need the walk to back the talk and you need the skill set to ally to the positivity.
We are not yet good enough but we can be bettter than we are.
Is love for us to stick a cheeky bid in for the young centre half Mckenna from Aberdeen
Boys a player imo
Off to mo leaba.
About five more weeks of holidays to go.
Timmy’s in Torreblanca for me on Weds.
CostadelSolCSCl
SFTB
An excellent appraisal of our current place within the landscape of modern European Football. The new super elite of European Clubs present a different challenge than the one we faced over the last fifty years or so. A different challenge that will require different answers to enable us to compete with the new elite.
That is the challenge and I hope, somehow, that we can rise to that challenge.
?⚽️
SFTB- great post earlier , been really good stuff on here today
Norrie- well done to the ‘wean’ brilliant
CRC- Hellbhoy- Jobo – great stuff , Mick best of luck in your recovery HH
Paul and T- i was told a few weeks ago we have asked Aberdeen to be updated on any interest in McKenna
Almore
SLF much better than Moving Hearts.
We’re gonnae blow up in your face!
Jake Burns CSC
SFTB @ 9.55
I fear your analysis generates the poor performances that you highlight.
You have provided a steady stream of reasons why the world and the footballing gods are against us. You may focus on the top half of EU football but the sense of inferiority that you have generated infects our performances against the lower half of EU football where you have found your laundry list of failure.
The squad seems to equate foreign with good — so failure against tripe becomes acceptable.
The support seems to equate foreign with tricky, awkward, challenging — so failure is now on the agenda.
We need to grow up both as a squad and as a support.
It was only 15 years ago that we had BM dance on the park at CP because they had held out for a draw. From memory they we world beaters even then, well outside our ability to afford.
We had faith and confidence then.
We do not have faith and confidence now.
Paolo
Before I say goodnight to CQN. I will say what I think. I think Hendry and McKenna are very poor defenders. Rotten. Hendry will never be a Celtic player. McKenna fae Aiberdeen is poorer than Jack though.
GNGB
I think we need a signing or two, but based on below, what chance they come in and hit the ground running? The evidence would suggest unlikely. I think we are pretty much going to go with what we have for the qualifiers,
Gordon – signed on a free – first pick and settled reasonably quickly
Lustig – signed on a free – first pick and settled reasonably quickly
Ajer – signed for £500k after trial – loaned out then established himself quite a bit into second season
Boyata – signed for £1.5m from Man City – labelled a dud, bombscare, surplus to requirements, then from nowhere established himself well into second season
Tierney – from youths – thrown in at deep end at 17 and swam
Brown – signed for £4.4m from Hibs – struggled in first season, then took a few more to really establish himself
Ntcham – signed for £4.5m from Man City – overall settled well despite some ropey performances in between a strong start and strong finish
Rogic – signed for £500k – took a full two seasons to get anywhere near the starting 11 although had injury problems
McGregor – youths – labelled a Rangers supporter/dud/invisible man – took a good few years to establish himself
Forrest – youths – took a good few years to realise potential
Dembele – free transfer from Fulham – slowish start but soon got going
Edouard – loan then transfer fee from PSG – took a while to convince a few but now looking the real deal
Sinclair – signed in August 16 for £2.8m from Villa – hit the ground running
Madmitch .
In the “15 years since BM ( Bayern Munich, I presume) danced on the park at CP “ celebrating a draw ,the landscape has changed dramatically .
So has the make up of the “champions league “ to accommodate the 5 largest countries that play in it .
Meanwhile , I suggest that you read SFTB post from 9.55pm again.
It covers everything apart from why PL has a heated driveway . HH
DD .
Congrats on the Molinari lift .
Yer man , the caddy knows his stuff. The wee Italian was one of my 4 bets on the Open . Bingo.
Hope all is well, catch ye soon , when we will debate the merits of our young central defenders.
I think you’re being a tad harsh on Hendry.
Bellybuttons & opinions. We all have them. HH
Celtic ch’s are as good as any within our reach atm, thing is, if you don’t protect them they’ll be exposed.
We’re not a big club in Europe atm, so we have to improvise, first step is to make sure we don’t lose, that is easier achieved, when we tighten the midfield which will protect the defence and the gk.
No to John Terry, Kolo was Brendan’s Willie Garner, so, no more rich boy cronyism, that has to be malleted.
If we’re clever, we can have our cake and eat it.
Get into the CL group stage, aim to finish third in the group if possible, then fall into the EL, and hopefully get a few games there.
So, to clarify, the Celtic ch’s are ok, but if the manager is incapable of being cynical enough to protect them, by tightening the midfield, then look for to be on the receiving end of more European humpings.
HH
So JUNGLE_JUICE_FUELED_THE_LION’S
What yer sayin is Brendan needs to be more cute… more Celtic cute? And we need a midfield shield to protect the defence? Like big McGhee did wae Motherwell.
?⚽️
I’m off to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
?⚽️
Madmitch
I fear your analysis generates the poor performances that you highlight.
I think you attribute too much power to me and my analysis. I seriously doubt that the people who matter – the players and coaching staff- will read this far less than give it head room.
And, if they did, I would have a lower opinion of them. There are far more qualified and professional brains around with more expert advice and analysis than me or, dare I say it, you, that they should learn from.
You have provided a steady stream of reasons why the world and the footballing gods are against us. You may focus on the top half of EU football but the sense of inferiority that you have generated infects our performances against the lower half of EU football where you have found your laundry list of failure.
I have not generated a sense of inferiority. I have shown that we are inferior to some.
We have won against the top teams and lost to them. We have won against our equals and lost to them. We have won against weaker teams and also lost. The trend I, and anyone, can uncover is the prevailing tendency (not an invariability) for weaker teams to lose to stronger teams. In recent times, that trend is becoming more predictable. You are offering a quack form of positive psychology as a way of reversing that trend. Positivity is good but, outside of Hans Christian, it cannot make a duck a swan but, occasionally, a duck can nip a swan in the tender parts and live to have another tilt.
The squad seems to equate foreign with good — so failure against tripe becomes acceptable.
The squad knows much the same as the rest of us. The powerhouse teams come from the usual lands and addresses and we CAN beat any one of them on any given day though we, along with all other teams with an inferior record, tend to lose more than we win. By their achievement in becoming pro footballers, our players have already shown greater mental strength than most of us who are muddling allong in our jobs and careers. I have never seen or heard any of our players saying it is acceptable to lose to “tripe” but then I have never seen them have the arrogance to describe those teams as “tripe”. Red Imps 1 Celtic 0 is a rare loss to a much inferior team but it did happen. The same Celtic teamthat lost that match held Man City to 2 draws. It is hindsight reasoning to say they were mentally weak against the Gibraltarians but suddenly discovered the trick of confidence against a multi-million City squad only to lose it again playing Gladbacjh and Barca.
The support seems to equate foreign with tricky, awkward, challenging — so failure is now on the agenda.
The support includes you and me and has a huge range of opinions. I call mine realistic because it equates with the results I have seen and the predictions I make from it, generally come true. I don’t know how we could test your hypothesis since it is all post-hoc. A win means we were confident enough but a draw or loss means we could not have been but you have no way of knowing in advance if you have made the team mentally strong enough for your requirements. Only the result proves the mental attitude was right.
We need to grow up both as a squad and as a support.
I agree. Grown ups recognise reality. We recognise both the benefits aand the limits of a positive approach. R. Kelly might state that he believes he can fly but, thus far, has failed to provide evidence of aerial flight without benefit of machinery.
It was only 15 years ago that we had BM dance on the park at CP because they had held out for a draw. From memory they we world beaters even then, well outside our ability to afford.
And it was only last year that we almost achieved it again against an even richer Bayern with us getting a 1:1 scoreline at CP with 13 minutes to go against that team. We can always land an occasional bloody nose but the overall trend remains, a hardening tendency for bigger teams to beat the likes of us by bigger margins. I hate that it is so but I have a head as well as a heart and I listen to both organs because neither alone has a monopoy on truth.
We had faith and confidence then.
We do not have faith and confidence now.
There us something in that, as far as the support is concerned. In 1967 we were naive and had no idea how good we could be. We surprised ourselves by winning it. Having wasted a preety good half of our golden generation in the early 60s by achieving little, we made up for it in the 60’s and early 70s. We had a late fling with Aberdeen and United in the early 80s but we were useless after that- even the Gers 9iar outfit that think they made a semi-final and were cheated.
Martin O’Neill gave us hope in the new millenium that we could get back among the big boys but the evidence is that it was not sustained and MON did not have any similar level of success in any of the teas he moved on to-so he was not the sole determining factor.
We can all play the “Where’s the Seville money gone?” game but it has gone the same way as our modern accumulations- into retaining what good players we can and into ground improvements. Though of course, we prefer to believe it is all resting in PL’s account and the world’s first gold brick heated driveway.
Who knows how much bettter we would have been if MON had stayed but he didn’t and what we do know is what actually happened- 3 times we got further forward in the CL than MON had achieved but we did not like it too much because we had raised the bar of our expectations and this improvement was no longer good enough.
It takes a lot more than saying- ” You need to be mentally tougher” to actually produce improvement. Coaching is hard- if it was easy any untrained numpty could attempt it.
I’d love to be good enough to do it but it is not a lack of confidence and mental strength that leads me to recognise that I cannot. It is a sober and critical evaluation of my abilities against those of the people who actually cut it in this worls.
I’m off to bed now. I have a professional Development review in my own job tomorrow morning. I am confident that, after 38 years, I will again pass muster, but Imy evaluation will be a lot less strenuous than the one Celtic will face from the pub teams in Norway and, hopefully, Greece.
setting free the bears for Res. 12 & Oscar Knox on 23rd July 2018 9:55 pm
I suspect Celtic PLC have done the same analysis and came to the same conclusions.
That’s why they will not invest in Europe. The OF is their sustained business continuity plan as the focus as always is on money. Celtic will probably get by rosenberg but AEK is probably 50/50 at best. Europa League till Christmas is probably what the business plan is hoping for.
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 23RD JULY 2018 9:55 PM
Down with that sort of thing.
To the car park. :)
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 23RD JULY 2018 10:05 PM
Thomthethim & An Tearman
Do you have any recollection of these people?
I don’t remember any Donegal Screamers
*****
Indeed I do. They went to one of the offshore islands and set up a commune there.
Stories emerged that people were actually kept captive there by the cult.
One person escaped and presented at Dungloe District Hospital one night when my wife was on night duty.
I have no recollection, or evidence, of WITS being a follower, though!
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 23RD JULY 2018 6:03 PM
@AULDHEID on 23RD JULY 2018 5:49 PM
As a preliminary point, what seems to escape your argument is that failure to invest can inexorable lead to the failure to qualify (which is compounded with each passing year, i.e. failure to qualify detracts from investment which in turn reduces probability of qualification etc).
Now, as for your other argument about signing players and their cost, I think you are purposefully exaggerating and massaging figures to fit your argument.
Celtic do not have anyone on £50k per week in wages. We only have one player who cost more than £5m (Edouard) and even then, his true cost is not known.
We were able to sign Sinclair, Ntcham and Edouard who have all made a substantial impact to the team (the latter only as the season was in the later stages) for well under the transfer fee and wages quoted.
Now, why is that in order to improve the defence, we now have to spend £5m per player and pay £50k per week in wages? It is clearly the case that the team can be improved without spending that sort of money.
It appears as if some people have a binary argument that the team can only be improved by spending substantial sums not yet within our gift, or not at all. It’s not true.
=============================
No that isn’t my argument, my argument is basically you have to spend more to stand still because of wage inflation that outstrips our earning capacity without CL money and if you can get a higher quality player, which usually means experienced because that is how you know his quality, which is the point of investing, such a player is not going to come cheap and you will need more than one.
So we do what we are doing, pay more to keep the guys we want to because they are worth it and find and develop as many as we can at low initial outlay to turn them into a guy we would have to spend a fortune on if we wanted to buy him.
If Tierney had developed at Everton but got homesick and wanted Everton wages, how much would Everton want for him and what would his wages be?
There are many ways to invest and I think in our development strategy with a manager who is worth a lot more than he gets paid (I’m not sure what he does get paid but if its £5M a year Stuart Armstrong paid BR’s wages.
The other point about not spending all income in the next season after its earned is that if you build up a reserve but fail to qualify for the CL you can keep players who in days of no reserve you had to sell to balance the books. (McGeady).
Its anything but binary and I think our investment strategy where we don’t have to try and match rivals who spend other peoples money like it was other peoples money, provides an opportunity to stay on top but still have some for a rainy day to keep us on top.
SFTB
We can all play the “Where’s the Seville money gone?” game but it has gone the same way as our modern accumulations- into retaining what good players we can and into ground improvements. Though of course, we prefer to believe it is all resting in PL’s account and the world’s first gold brick heated driveway.
=========================
Actually there was no Seville money, the cost of the team that got us there was more than the income they brought in. That was the year we went into reverse and brought in Peter Lawwell and WGS to bring the wage into line with earnings but stay on top for 3 years.
In 2007 Smith returned to Ibrox and Rangers debt rose from £6M to £36M by 2009 but it bought three titles and cut the debt in half by 2011.
That wasn’t enough for the bank , not with a potential tax bill of £48m on the table for which there was no contingency made in 2008 when the bills dropped through the Ibrox letterbox.
Not a lot of people know that.
Sftb,,,well laid out post. Im loathe to type about normal football things while the current malarkey ongoing but so be it.
So the jist of your post is ,, we are where we are and its where we deserve to be,,Champions of Scotland but Euro fodder. What do you want us to do as a couple players wont make difference?
How could we take the step to the next level realistically ? I believe thats about it and forgive me if Im wrong.
There was a tweet doing the rounds a few years ago after Lenny beat Barca that showed our home results in the Champs league. You might remember this tweet.
It showed a list of the home scalps we had taken and they were mighty impressive soo much soo that it read like one of Europes top teams.
Should that team been able to replicate those results away from their home fortress then they honestly woulda been contenders. Seriously. If the away results had been anything like what they were doing at home they woulda been there or there abouts a lot.
They didnt though. Usually flopped away.
So to me anyway one way to take the step to the next level is flip the away results to match the home and we would be looking good.,,how to do it is the hard part of course .
First off common sense would tell me hire the best manager you can afford. Show him the home results and say look at that potential . Get them playing decent away and you could well shake up the world.
Plus we will push the boat out in terms of transfers as we have a bit of cash .
Also we could frontload the next three or four windows into one huge window just for you .
This would give everyone a boost.
Then onto the squad. We seem to have moved up onto the next level in our transfer strategy which was expected and natural.
We have went from getting top talent on loan to taking them on loan still but choosing to buy some,,ala what we just did with Odsonne.
No doubt he is seen as a home run,,has the skills and potential plus they know the attitude. Yip, he will star and move for big bucks. We have moved from 3 million buys ( Virgil ) bringing in 15 or so to 6 million buys going for 30 million or so,,at least that is the current trajectory for Edouard.
Thats what way the ducks are lined up and thats what we should see happening.
The next rung on that ladder in five years or so is 10 million buys getting sold for 50 million.
A transfer out bringing in 30 million or so is a hell of a lot of cash for us , almost half a normal years turnover ( 65 million being a normal year say ). If we perfect this model ( take on loan and buy low if seen as a home run ,, play for 2/3 seasons and sell for 5 times price ) there is an excellent springboard right there to self sustainably improve the standard of the squad.
Just keep reinvesting the cash brought in.
In a few seasons all your buys would be next level home runs supplemented with the best domestically. And the extra turnover affords larger pay packet to help us keep some of these players who want to stick around as they like it . And to entice some stars who like what they see and wanna be part of it.
And all this excitement keeps the stands full and the hotel full.
To get to the next level will never be guaranteed but we could take big steps to help try make it there. A top manager,,a young exciting improving squad,,the scouts to keep working magic,,increase turnover through transfers to increase basic wage and bonus,,
A big slice of luck,,some cajones.
That glass ceiling you refer to,,the model above keeps moving it upwards. Even while playing in Scotland.
Hail Hail
oh what a beautiful morning
AULDHEID on 24TH JULY 2018 1:42 AM
==========================
Unfortunately the Scottish media is full of people who either through total bias, or total stupidity, are willing to peddle the line that Rangers liquidation was unnecessary because the debt was coming down at the time. That is enough for your average gullibilly to cry ‘Timmy conspiracy!’
If you haven’t read sftb @ 9:55, then do so. Well worth a read.
Good morning all from the Govanhill rainforest.
Goooooooooooooooooooooooood morning
C………………………………
Q………………………………..
N…………………………………………
AnothergloriousmorninginthePonca
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44931851
The sad reality is that Celtic cannot compete with the financial resources of small English clubs.
Mahe
I do not, unfortunately, have the time to do your post justice so I am going to, as usual, focus on the bits I disagree with, which are :-
1) “Also we could frontload the next three or four windows into one huge window just for you .”
&
2) “Just keep reinvesting the cash brought in.
In a few seasons all your buys would be next level home runs supplemented with the best domestically. And the extra turnover affords larger pay packet to help us keep some of these players who want to stick around as they like it . And to entice some stars who like what they see and wanna be part of it.”
My reply to 1) is:-
I know, of no business or household, which works on the principle that, if you are in surplus, spend it!
Yes, if market conditions are right, invest in infrastructure which makes your chances of future success more likely (but never, assured). In my view the Scottish market , as it stands now, cannot justify the extra investment in machinery (players) as it does not have the trading prospects and neither does any other peripheral market., not even the Swiss or the Portuguese (but, perhaps, the Russian one does- we are not a comparator with Russia).
For me, it smacks of spending the children’s inheritance and not keeping sanything by for a rainy day. There are gonna be plenty of them in Scotland.
As for 2) there are always 3 outcomes to consider – win lose or draw. In this case- that means improve, stand stilll or worsen. You have declared, in advance, that “all your buys will be next level” but history tells us otherwise. You need to factor in the likelihood that you will make wrong moves.
Ajax did not always replace a Luis Suarez with a future equivalent and no club has mastered that surefire touch in the market. Porto have signed some S. American duds. Maybe the Basel model offers some hints for us but Switzerland is both richer and more Central in Europe than we are.
In summary, my position can be summarised as over-cautious, penny-pinching and unambitious. Yours can be characterised as bold, ambitious and planning for improvement.
Or
I am being realistic and planning for expected market conditions, keeping our club vaguely relevant until market conditions change and allow us to be in a position to be bolder, and yours can be characterised as one-eyed, Polly-anna-ish, and gambling with the inheritance money that will keep the club going.
But all that is just name-calling or rhetorical argument. The evidential base will always ask the question- Which realistic competitor club is doing things better than Celtic in terms of financial planning? ( as opposed to looking after the fan base where there are many legitimate criticisms to be made). Where is this alternative model being used by a club like us?
Aff oot now.
Good morning from a bright Forres, heading down to Glasgow at lunchtime for tomorrow’s game.
https://mobile.twitter.com/cdonnellyxx/status/1021438242825129984/video/1
Glorious in Corcaigh……….
in ither news…….
Shortie doing its Level best to create a mood and atmosphere around Celtica that emphasises worry, doubt and fear……….The Sleekit Strategy…….
Aye, Jeerleaders in-waiting.
Sad and shameful.
…a right good read for yer mornin’ coffee..
HH.
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 23RD JULY 2018 9:55 PM
Long post- please scroll by if not interested.
I sometimes wonder at the mineshafter’s evaluation of Celtic FC in Europe.
Especially in this post-Bosman, big league & TV dominated era, where a new elite has emerged exclusively from within the Big 5 Leagues and, even there from around 20 potential contenders for prizes. Spain have 5 clubs with potential to get to Q-F and beyond in the CL (Real, Atletico, Barcelona Sevilla and Valencia) plus a couple who could do well at Europa level. England too can provide 4 or 5 qualifiers who may achieve this (City, United, Liverpool. Spurs and either Chelsea/Arsenal though both are on the slide). Bundesliga have their big 2 in Bayern & Dortmund but Schalke and others might do relatively well in the EL though they would be surprise winners). France has PSG & Monaco with Marseilles and Lyon as potentials for bridging that gap. Italy have Juve, Napoli and Roma plus the 2 Milans but, increasingly, only Juve have pretensions to win CL.
Outside of these big 5 Leagues, we only have outlier teams like Basel, Olympiakos, Shaktar Donetsk, Porto, Benfica, Galatasaray and a couple of Russians vying to be the one team that breaks through to CL Q-F stage.
We, as the big team in a peripheral league, fulfill the same function as similar comparator clubs (Anderlecht, Ajax, Sparta Prague, RB Salzburg, Dinamo Zagreb, Copenhagen, BATE, Maribor, Ludogerets, Cluj, Legia and Qarabag etc;) competing to fill 3 or 4 of the available pot 4 spaces which aren’t usurped by EL level teams from 2nd tier leagues.
Scotland is a 3rd tier or, excluding Celtic, a 4th tier league in Europe, if we realistically judge on 21st century results.
Where do we find a comparator club, amongst that group I cited that consistently outperforms Celtic on the European stage?
Where do we find the gall to describe AEK as a pub team?
It cannot be based on any neutral or professional evaluation of merits- just check the oddschecker site which has AEK at the most common odds of 500/1 to win it with Celtic most often priced at 1000/1 (our range of odds is from 250 to 1500 whereas AEK vary from 500 to 2500 if any of you are tempted by such a mug bet). The point is that the neutral and the professional do not share our fan’s evaluation of how good Celtic are or could or should be.
We were elite class from 1966 to 74 only. We then had over a quarter of a century losing to Zwickau, Innsbruck , Timisoara, Partizan, Neuchatel, and Zurich. In this millenium we have had the Seville run and 3 last 16 CL places (the last being in 2013 when we lost 5:0 on agg. to Juve). During that 18 year period, where we have retrenched to being in touching distance of being a 2nd tier team, we still contrived to lose matches to Rosenborg, Anderlecht, Artmedia, Copenhagen, Aalborg, Hapoel, Braga, Utrecht, Sion, Karagandy, Legia, Maribor, RB Salzburg, Dinamo Zagreb, Malmo, Molde, another Hapoel, Astana, and Anderlecht again.
You can attempt to explain away this level of performance away by asserting the untestable hypothesis that we are just scared or lack positive psychology but the sorry realistic truth is that, in sport, the results don’t lie. This is our level – these are our achievements. There is no hiding place from them.
In presenting this to you I am looking at my club soberly and wishing it was different, but I do not take my frustration out against this reality by asserting that, if we spent a couple of million here or there, during this retrenchment period, we would have altered our stars by any significant amount.
I search in vain for an example of a club where I could say- Celtic should do that!
We cannot import mass Brazilians like Porto and Shaktar have done. We cannot even get some of the benefits that Ajax and Anderlecht have enjoyed during this period of having a golden generation of players who got their country to the final stages of the World Cup.
We have enjoyed the cream of players from a semi-skimmed country in Scotland and have had to persuade others to join us who look on Scotland and Celtic as a stepping stone.
Eveytime I post this form of rejoinder to those with high hopes but limited strategies for achieving them, I am accused of sayimg that “nothing can be done”.
That is far from my view. In fact I am saying that we have done relatively well to have achieved what we have and that many of our true comparator clubs (in the real world where we know that AEK is not a pub team) look upon Celtic as an example of a club who have been growing and consolidating quite well.
However, I fear that even our admirers have got it wrong. The challenge is getting harder, as I predicted it would several years back. Those elite rich clubs from the elite leagues want to maintain their position and are not happy with the existing level of monopoly and success they enjoy. They fear the freak result and want to guard against it by excluding the chance of other clubs from reaching their level. They may not bother too much with plucky old Celtic as they see us as cannon fodder anyway but there is genuine fear that Russian clubs, Portuguese clubs, some Dutch ones and maybe a cash rich Austrian or Swiss team could deprive one of the Big 5 league teams of their “rightful” position.
We are operating in a glass ceiling and distorted sporting environment. Without access to a more competitive league with more routine cash rewards, we face a future very similar, if not worse, than our recent past. Good players will be asset stripped as financial reality demands and their own wishes (KT excepted possibly) make inevitable. We, in common with all other peripheral leagues then try to replace with other projects (they are ALL projects) and go again. The much vaunted Ajax model gas shown us how difficult this is to repeat. Even the Porto route, which is hard for us to replicate anyway, is struggling as the big 5 league clubs have now got less lazy about their scouting and will plunder S. America directly.
So I expect my message to be dismissed, yet again, as a message of doom or a recipe for making do and mend.
I regard it as an unflinching look at the realities around us. Yes, we can do better- we always can, but I cannot be persuaded that we can significantly change our position in this pecking order without a change in our competitive environment.
You can only stop being SPFL flat -track bullies and European cannon fodder when you play regularly in a setting that provides you with regular hard competition, forges your competitive play towards the elite standards, and gives you the financial rewards for success which allow you to better resist your advantaged “competitors” from the big leagues.
Otherwise, it will be groundhog day of “blame the suits” every transfer window from here on in. We sound like the Dixie Remebrance society that believes that, if only Robert . Lee had not gone doo-lally at Gettysburg, the South would have won, and then go on to asser if we just recreate the spirit of Stonewall Jackson, with his Presbyterian virtues, we can still win the last war.