Anyone consuming media coverage would think that the on-going investigation into the registration of Rangers (since renamed RFC 2012) players over the last decade or so was the most pressing matter within The Rangers (until recently, Sevco). I really don’t think so, although it is a useful rallying flag. The EBT issue is not short of drama but there are more immediate concerns.
More importantly, I hear The Rangers are still trying to raise the initial £10m Founding Investors capital. The Sevco Investor Presentation offered these Founding Investors two shares for each one purchased, “effectively doubling their contributions” ahead of a stock-market floatation later this year. My understanding is they hope to raise £20m at that floatation, without the two-for-one share incentive, in order to see them through several years in the Scottish Football League and at least four years without European income.
If/when this matter materialises, remember, in 1994 Fergus looked you in the eye and allowed you to buy into Celtic at exactly the same rate he and the other early investors did. This model worked, anyone hoping to emulate Fergus’ success would do well to offer fans the same terms.
The size of the total capital requirement may be as much of a disincentive to early investors as the terms currently on offer. If you put significant sums in now and the floatation fails to deliver enough cash to allow the company to continue trading, your investment is at risk. I hope Laurel and Hardy at Hampden haven’t deleted their Armageddon slides.
Even selling 40,000 adult season tickets for Ibrox at £268 each would bring in only £9m (ex-vat), so there is a good chance this company will burn cash reserves for some time, assuming they pay taxes, of course, which was apparently optional for some in the recent past.
Target closing date for Foundation Investors was 6 July with Q3 / Q4 slot for floatation on the AIM market, so we should be seeing a prospectus sometime soon if plans are back on track. If Charles Green pulls this off he deserves some sort of Businessman of the Year award.
Anyone who thinks the drama is over still hasn’t realised the enormity of the situation.
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Trying to get too Sleep and Keep singing that Paul Young song:
Love of the ‘Comma’ People..in My Head..
Wonder Why..
Summa of Living in the love of the comma people,
smile’s from the heart of a family man.
Daddy’s gonna buy you a dream to cling to,
Mama’s gonna love you just as much as she can.
Living in the love of the comma people,
smile’s from the heart of a family man.
Daddy’s gonna buy you a dream to cling to,
Mama’s gonna love you just as much as she can.
Living in the love of the comma people,
smile’s really hard on a family man.
Daddy’s gonna buy you a dream to cling to,
Mama’s gonna love you just as much as she can
and she can.CSC
1988CSC
Somebody having a go at one of the R’glen bhoy’s? That will end in tears for the party concerned…
To break the monotony of no football until next week.
Can people post the best pictures they ever witnessed, if they are digitalized. Of course Celtic ones are awesome but Jawdropping pics of the World would be fantastic.
Chic Green will take most of the shares money and run, leaving the investors up the creek without a financial paddle
BMCUW
;-))
New venture going ok, starting unbelievably well but has slowed a bit. Slightly ahead of plan, but need more customers.
So anyone looking for home care of the highest quality for themselves or a loved one, get in touch ;-) http://www.bluebirdcare.co.uk/southlanarkshire
Paul67 – that’s me owing you for advertising & consultancy now ;-)
hh
bjmac
.
Oh…Sh*t..
Who Mentioned JoshyBhoy..I Have just paid My bill for My Last ‘Therapy’ treatment..
Summa of DeclanSmilesBetterCSC
petec 16:00
If you start asking for pictures of oursleves I am reporting you for grooming… lol!
Bulgaria — Italy .
We might see Lorenzo Insigne get his first full cap for Italy.
5ft 4ins. A forward . Plays for Napoli. Early days but – wow – what a player. !
Saw him on the tele last weekend — Napoli / Fiorentina . Football player ! You could hear the excitement whenever he got the ball .
One to Watch CSC -Way down south.
Thomas Rogne: “This is about the economy. I have played when I have been healthy and I feel I should be paid like the other players in that category, but the deal has been much worse. The salary must reflect my value.”
Total appearances since 2010/11:
Rogne: 44
Hooper: 94
Hillsborough – Searching for the Truth
Only available BBC Yorkshire/North West
BBC1 Sunday 2225.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01mrmq1
Sky+ set.
Just signed in to Celtic tickets and ordered my Raith ticket. I cant get my own seat as upper tier, £5.00 I got charged, that right?
Hillsborough – Searching for the Truth
Only available BBC Yorkshire/North West
BBC1 Sunday 2225.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01mrmq1
Sky+ set.
Afternoon bhoys, hot and hun free on the mountain range.
A puckle of predictions.
1. The huns will go bust again.
2. There will be some sort of government bail out,
[ they are the fabric of the nation after all ]
3.They will have a few titles srtipped from them.
4. No one of any standing, will do jail time.
5. Real ran*ers men will take over, with the help of the government.
6. The msm will carry on as normal.
7. It will all be the fault of the unseen Fenian Hand.
8. There will be no significant change at the sfa/spl/sfl.
9. Everything will carry on as normal.
10. UEFA will do nothing.
11. With the help of the match fixers will cheat their way up through the leagues.
12. Nothing will ever change in the best wee bigoted country in the world.
Don’t be holding yer breath for Hector or BDO to do anything either, Hector objected to D and P, that was rejected.
D and P were ordered to produce info to the court, still waiting I believe.
The unseen political and masonic pressure is coming to the fore.
…………………………………………..
For those with Sky.
Ch 956/958
I mean the ticket was £5 not an extra charge.
CONFUSINGYOUCSC
Paul67,
I’m quite enjoying the fact that people ‘think the drama is over’; it’ll hit them all the harder when it kicks off again!!
THE EXILED TIM
16:08 on 7 September, 2012
They are finished IMO. The loose ends have still to be tied up however. ;)
With regards to foreign coaches, I would prefer our younger coaches to work with the likes of Ajax to see how they develop their youth players.
Does anybody know why the St. Johnstone game in November has been moved from 10th (Sat) to the 11th (Sun)?
Travelling up from England on the Friday for the Christy Moore concert at the Barras and had the weekend all sorted. Now need to re-negotiate plans with the good lady!! Not easy as there is the Barca game on the Wednesday to attend. Can anyone recommend a good florist?!!!
petec
I don’t buy that.
We will see what happens.
A tv screen beeaking down caused a major riot, just imagine what would happen if their club where to be no more.
BJMAC
Delighted to hear it.
Always delighted to hear a new venture gaining legs.
From what I gather,few people deserve it more.
Nathaniel Hawthorne, writing in The Scarlet Letter, said, “No man, for any considerable period, can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be true.” If Rangers, or Sevco, or Club 12, or whatever it calls itself on this particular day, were a person, he or she would be deep into madness.
At one point in the song “Life During Wartime”, David Byrne sings “I got three passports, a couple of visas, don’t even know my real name.” At another he sings “We dress like students, we dress like housewives, or in a suit and a tie. I’ve changed my hairstyle so many times now, I don’t know what I look like!” Sevco (that’s what we’ll call them for the rest of this piece) are having a beauty of an identity crisis, and like the protagonist in “Life During Wartime”, sometimes they forget who they’re meant to be.
One other thing; like the protagonist of “Life During Wartime”, their current predilection for switching identities is a decision based on self-preservation.
All this pulling off one face and putting on another is already confusing their fans.
In short; they don’t. If they are willing to accept they are a new club, with no ties to the old, then they are perfectly entitled to scream from the rooftops about the injustice of it all, to demand that no new sanctions are applied to them and to tell the SFA, SPL and UEFA where they can stick their punishments. I like to think of myself as a reasonable man, as a just man, and no reasonable man could actually argue that this was fair.
Their problem is that in doing so they are effectively laying aside their entire history. Because if your case is built on the claim that you are a new club, then that has to be followed through to its logical and ultimate conclusion. They have rejected that path already, clinging on like grim death to the fantasy – and it is clearly a fantasy – that the new club and the old are one in the same entity, that it was “the company” not “the club” which died, as though the two are separate things.
There’s a simple way to check. Look at their tax return. Does the “club” pay taxes using the same company number as it always has? Look at the player contracts. Are they with the same organisation which employed them before? The union says no, and that’s why players were allowed to leave on free transfers. The media might not want to accept it. The Sevco fans definitely don’t want to accept it. The SFL website might not reflect it and the SFA membership might not state it – which I will get to shortly – but the club that was Rangers is dead. It’s a fact.
The law makes it quite clear. Public records make it quite clear. The writing on the wrought iron gates of Ibrox – Rangers FC Ltd – makes it quite clear. UEFA regulations make it clear. The SPL decision not simply to transfer membership makes it quite clear. The SFL insistence that “new clubs start at the bottom” makes it quite clear. Their place in the third tier of the game, and their acceptance of that without legal challenge, makes it quite clear.
This is not a club with any history beyond the last few months.
The SFA appears, in public at least, to be holding to a consistent position, but that is problematic for them and for Sevco. First, let me cue you in on a little secret they won’t tell you in the papers. The reason Sevco accepts the transfer ban – which a court ruled was illegal – and the SFA was empowered to enforce it, is the result of a lawyers trick. The transfer embargo is not a “punishment” under the agreement between the SFA and Sevco but a “condition of membership.” This begs the question as to why a club which is already a member – and this is what the SFA and Sevco are telling us after all – should need to adhere to “conditions of membership” before being allocated one. If this was a simple transfer of membership between corporate entities there would be no legal grounds for any conditions being imposed on either party!
What the SFA and Sevco have agreed to is the most bizarre piece of chicanery I’ve ever seen in my life. Nothing like it has been seen outside television, where the most obvious example that comes to mind is an episode of The Thick of It where Malcolm Tucker and a government minister screw up an announcement which they then have to fix. Their method for doing so is to pretend that what was announced was something entirely different, and then expect the media to go along with it on the basis that “they know we never said it, we know they know we never said it, but they’ll pretend we did say it because if they don’t they won’t get to hear what we say tomorrow or the day after that or the day after that ….” These people have signed up to a deception everyone involved knows is a fraud, but is content to pretend is something on the level.
Sevco could have challenged the whole “conditions of membership” issue in court, and if they felt they had a strong enough case they would have. But in a court-room, in front of a judge, this insane suggestion that the club and company are separate entities would have been put to the final and irrevocable test. And it will happen. Eventually we will come to a pass where the inconsistent nature of trying to wear one face one day and another the next will come to a head, and in an official forum these contradictions will be confronted once and for all.
I suspect it will come about with the EBT verdict. If that verdict is destructive enough that it taints the whole future of Sevco with the sins of Rangers, I suspect somewhere, in some court room, there will be a legal battle to establish separate status. And with that battle will come the defining moment in the history of this whole affair.
If Sevco FC is found to be a direct continuation of Rangers FC then the punishments which will be meted out to them will be the most severe in the history of European sport; cheating, on an industrial scale, for ten or more years, impacting domestic league games, cup games, matches in Europe and even international fixtures. The shockwaves will extend far, far beyond Ibrox. Careers will be ended. Reputations will be destroyed. Institutions will teeter on the brink of total collapse, and the damage will be almost incalculable.
Imagine, however, the legal arguments end in what we all know to be fact; that the club is dead, that Sevco are running a wholly new sporting entity and there is no direct connection with the old one. In that case the SFA is in real bother, and the dominos will all start tumbling.
Sevco, in those circumstances, does not qualify for an SFA license on any level. The club’s entire history is gone at the stroke of a pen. Every player – from youth players to first team stars – who did not already walk out will have their contracts torn up. Every player who has been signed will find themselves back on the dole. Because their licenses will be illegitimate. Games already played will be declared null and void. Everything will be up in the air. UEFA will be hearing clamour for a full-scale investigation into the shambles, which will paralyse the game.
It is vitally important to a large number of people that the fiction be maintained.
Yet try telling that to Sevco fans. They don’t accept their club should be held accountable for the sins of the “old company”, and they have already scrapped together the cash to challenge the SFA in court over the transfer ban when it was imposed on Rangers. Would they be willing to cough up for another lawyers fees, in event they didn’t like the result in the EBT investigation at the SPL? Would they clamour for Green to challenge it, and could he resist that clamour, even as he was trying to get them to buy shares?
Which brings me, after a lengthy digression, to my point;. this share issue itself.
There is a legal minefield surrounding that. On the one hand, the fans are being told their shares in Rangers are void, that they need to purchase new ones. That’s the law of the land, right? Well follow it through. Were their original shares held in the club, or in the company? They will say the club. But if the club still exists, how can those shares in it be worthless? And how can Green dilute their value?
Their fans should think about this if they are about to invest all over again. Green’s claim that they will “own part of the club” doesn’t stand up, in light of his own arguments about the club/company disconnect. Fans wanting to make an emotional investment in their football club is one thing. But what he’s saying they did previously, and will be doing all over again if my understand is correct is investing in a holding company …
And we all know what can happen to them.
Ask any Rangers shareholder you know what their take on that is. Did they really own part of their club, as they claimed, as they believe? Or did they own nothing more than pieces of paper giving them a share in a corporate shell? Ask them if they’ll be investing their hard earned dough, in the run up to Christmas, in another off-the-shelf firm, because it has a familiar name.
Because if the club/company disconnect exists, that’s what they’re being asked to buy. And there is no guarantee those shares will be worth the paper they are printed on.
In the movie Inception, Cobb says “Dreams feel real while we’re in them. It’s only when we wake up that we realize something was actually strange.” Is that how Sevco fans feel, right now, following “their” team to the public park like amateur grounds of Scotland’s tier three teams? In the same movie he talks about the viral quality of an idea. “Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it’s almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed – fully understood – that sticks; right in there somewhere.”
Sevco fans have some vague notion that they are still following Rangers. They believe it, for the moment, and can ignore those little moments of unreality, like the cat Neo sees twice in The Matrix – which Morpheus tells him is a glitch in the system. Those glitches are common with people in the grip of madness.
But reality will keep on intruding. And at some point, soon perhaps, certainly within 12 months, it is going to come battering through this fantasy like a tidal wave.
Whatever, Green is trying to sell shares that are worthless in every way. Not only is there no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for anyone who buys in as an “investment”, but there doesn’t appear to be any emotional reason for buying them either.
The shares I have hanging on my wall, I like to think of as shares in our collective obsession, as small parts of the love affair we have with our club. If someone told me they were essentially shares in a holding company, I’d not have bought them.
Their fans should think very hard about that.
Maley
my dad was moaning about that this afternood..
he said it was sevco TV game or something
15 mins gone and Russia haven’t scored yet, their odds haven’t either :<(
THE EXILED TIM……..16:08 on 7 September, 20
Apologies for being so pernickity but you list point 9 as a prediction when it is actually an event/happening/ongoing situation…………… IMHO…………-(:
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
Paul 67
Far be it for me to correct your statements but according to the MSM the £20million that sevco have coming in is for Sally to splurge on world famous internationalists..
Rogne’s injury record is of concern …if he moves on so be it …a good promising player who is prone to some very naive performances, isn’t blessed with great pace and is injury prone ..
Some way from a reliable first team performer
Will bomber B, Sally Mc, Jardine, The Cardigan, Brian Kennedy, etc put their money where their mouths is an buy shares when its floated? I doubt it.
The Thick of It back on BBC2 tomorrow night.
THE EXILED TIM
No offence my Good Friend but you are worrying about nothing.
Celtic will not be facing The Rangers again unless it is in a Cup tourney.
Why worry about a pile of excrement when we have a team that is licking its lips about smacking UEFA’s co-efficient right down the throats of every Team that faces Celtic, with the quite unfair boost of a Genuine 12th Man.
The GREEN BRIGADE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yl88FC3ll0
BT, cheers mate.
Really annoying that one of our fixtures should be moved to accommodate a team in the lower leagues.
Bada Bing – The bad news is that Malcolm Tucker doesn’t feature until Episode 2.
#8MoreSleeps
Ahhhh – grasshopper
Wise man once said – man with no history – may be man with no future
BMCUW
Very kind (& welcome!) words.
Those from whom you gathered must have been drunk ;-)) I’m still a crabbit git, but I’d like to think a caring & loving one ;-))
hh
bjmac
TBM
Feck Off :>)))
…………………………
petec
Do you honestly believe that they will be allowed to fold ?
Never be allowed to happen.
I will wager you now that the government will step in.
Off out to the shop, back soon……
I really enjoyed the NextGen game last night – despite the result. Don’t think we deserved to lose – but there were some good signs. Thought that Sporting controlled the ball in the first half and we resorted to playing it quickly and long too much – putting us on the back foot for long periods. Some excellent goalkeeping kept us in it and a smart finish from Denny Johnstonew was impressive. I remember seeing his name on here recently – he was really impressive. Great touch, stron, powerful and excellent at holding up the ball gicing midfield time to support him. Biggest enouragement though was the second half transformation. Coaches earned their money and we were a different team. Playing it out from the back, keeping pocession and controlling the game. In fact, Sporting made a block substitution, taking of 3 of their more creative players at the same time to try and get a grip on the game. MIB interference as usual when last man tackle taking out Twardzik was only a yellow.
Most bizarre event of the evening though was Sporting goalkeeper going down with cramp as we were going into the last few minutes. Even worse than anything Porto could do at Seville. Truly embarassing!! Looking forward to the other games to see how we develop. HH
Re:-
ASonOfDan
16:07 on
7 September, 2012
Just signed in to Celtic tickets and ordered my Raith ticket. I cant get my own seat as upper tier, £5.00 I got charged, that right?
Yes ASonOfDan
That sounds about right, said match is on Tuesday the 25th of September 2012
Adult Tickets are £12 Each £5 Concession
& They have only opened up the Bottom Tier of The Stadium
One Tier @ A Time & Tickets are by first come first serve basis.
johnnyclash-drat and double drat (drat).A brilliant character.