Let’s get the result out of the way first. We went out to a weaker team who were nonetheless very well-drilled in defence. AEK scored with their only two attempts on goal last night and with one of their two at Celtic Park. This contrasts greatly with our chance conversation rate. It hurts and is money left on the table.
Recruitment is correctly at the heart of the inquest. Not only did nine of last night’s starters play under Ronny Deila, seven of them were once the heart of Neil Lennon’s team. Only Olivier Ntcham and Jack Hendry were brought to the club by Brendan Rodgers. One of Moussa Dembele or Odsonne Eduard, both Brendan signings, would have started if fully fit, while the Belgian, a Ronny signing, would have started in other circumstances.
This is Brendan’s fifth transfer window, so why do so many remain from the Ronny/Neil eras? There are good reason and bad reasons. McGregor, Rogic and Forrest have improved significantly under Brendan. We want more like this.
We only have accounts for Brendan’s first year, which show a £13.8m spent on player registrations. Since then we have bought big ticket players like Ntcham and Edouard, and more. Total spend will not be a whisker below £30m. Profit for Brendan’s first year was £6.9m. We could spend more (always), but we are still in an expenditure territory that AEK could not dream about.
I wanted John McGinn, but he is irrelevant to last night. He would not have displaced Ntcham or Brown. Not only was John not a solution, he was yet another squad player!
I’m not saying it’s easy, in fact, it’s difficult. We did not fall to a team who necessarily had a better plan for their recruitment budget, every season there is an AEK who hit the right numbers and over perform, before reverting to the mean. These are the perils of qualification.
We do not have a viable plan to continually qualify for the Champions League, and failures like this hurt. But we have been here before.
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Repeat something often enough and it becomes an accepted fact. For example ‘Celtic had a chance to kill off the zombies’ but choose not to.
Could anyone explain to me how exactly Celtic could single handeddly have killed off the Zombies.
If the answer includes some kind of formula that would require the backing of the majority of other Clubs in Scotland then forget it, no way in the world would that have been forthcoming.
David 17,
McGinn saga,
I was unaware that McGinns family had provided some background to the whole story, so thanks for that. I still reckon that some were looking for a stick – any stick – with which to flog Peter Lawell and the Board, and jumped on our failure with an unnatural zeal ?
Lawell does many fine things for our club, and if he would stick to the business and not get involved in the football side of it, I’m sure he’d be universally popular ( well, probably not…some people are only happy when they’re unhappy ? )
There’s a history of players being squad players or development players under previous managers and the next manager turning them into players.
Ronny turned Rogic around. What is more revealing and open to question is recruitment of Compper then zip zero zilch after 1 game.
I imagine we paid a huge fee for Musondas loan but not clear how that was settled on early termination. Again though Rodgers played him against Killie from the start after much fanfare then he made cameos and perhaps one other start and gradually nothing.
Even if you think the net spend is £15m or £20m we have the following assets purchased in Rodgers time
Ajer
Ntcham
Edouard
Dembele
Hendry
Sinclair
Purchased for how much? How much are they worth?
This doesn’t include the fees we could command for Tierney, McGregor, Forrest, Rogic.
We even have Boyata who could still be sold at a profit that, regardless of his own pin in his value last week, would constitute a vast profit.
If there is some sort of conflict between PL and BR? There will be only one winner. PL will remain as CEO and will be recruiting a new manager for Celtic.
After that scenario I predict a riot.
Kaiser Chiefs CSC
The ? s,
Interesting! and sorry for duplication.
Paul67,
Disengenous on McGinn. Rodgers wanted him for the season and beyond not for AEK.
If your mucker Lawwell had done his job then McGinn would have been at the club 6 weeks ago.
Nothing has changed from you defending a beancounter who has smothered Brendan’s ambitions for the club. Several names given by the manager and complete incompetence/failure from Lawwell to deliver.
Lawwell cost us £70M under Delia with his CL failures—-now another 50Mil.
At what point does Dermot kick Lawwell down London Road ( and you stop defending the guy who is damaging Celtic )?
Recruitment is correctly at the heart of the inquest. Not only did nine of last night’s starters play under Ronny Deila, seven of them were once the heart of Neil Lennon’s team.
—————-
I am struggling to work out how 7 players from last night were at the ‘heart’ of the Neil Lennon team. I would suggest 3 and half maximum.
Craig Gordon arrived after NL in 2015
Lustig – NL era
Hendry – N/A
Simo – Deila signing to replace VVD
Tierney – was at the Club but didn’t kick a ball under NL
Brown – NL era
Ntcham – N/A
Rogic – barely kicked a ball for NL, hardly at the heart of the team
McGregor – hardly kicked a ball for NL
Forrest – NL
Griffiths – final six months of NL era
MULLET AND CO 2
They are worth nothing!!!!!!
Unless we sell them.
Oh and what fees would we command?
Enlighten me with facts only please.
So what’s your point?
delaneys dunky, ive been reliably informed the oak and the brick are the best pubs around goodison park don’t shoot the messanger.ynwa.
DELANEYS DUNKY on 15TH AUGUST 2018 8:16 PM
If there is some sort of conflict between PL and BR? There will be only one winner. PL will remain as CEO and will be recruiting a new manager for Celtic.
After that scenario I predict a riot.
Kaiser Chiefs CSC
————-
20,000 seats will empty and more will follow. If the Board think this is bad, try blowing 8 in a row and see how that ends up.
PHILBHOY.ffs stop talking sense. luv ya to bits.hh.
BP
Thanks for the help. I may be struggling as there is an EPL game on Sky at 12.30 Saturday. If anyone knows of an establishment within half hour walk to Goodison, where I could watch Jags v Celtic on Saturday? Help please.
YNWA
BATEEN BHOY on 15TH AUGUST 2018 8:08 PM
Agree. Trouble is PL is negotiating transfer deals personally, i don’t see him delegating that responsibility. I think we need a more structured approach, i.e agree transfer budget and the wage bill and work it back from there. Communicate effectively thereafter and there should be no problem. It seems from the outside that PL is wheeling and dealing off the cuff.
BIG PACKY1
Hope you and yours are good Big Mhan!
I’ve met Delaneys.
He is a gent!
Look after him!
Philbhoy,
Do you think Peter Lawwell thinks they are worth nothing?
Do you only post facts or provable facts?
Correct they are only worth income if we sell them. Try opening up a bit – how much would you think they are worth? More or less than we signed them for?
If John McGinn wanted to be a Celtic player, he would be a Celtic player!
MULLET AND CO 2
I’ve no idea what PL thinks so I’m in the same boat as every one of you.
I’ve no idea what they are worth!
What makes you think I should?
Paper values are just that.
Err, not worth the paper……………………….
Has Dani Arzani signed for us, if he has what do we do to get games for Michael johnston and Lewis Morgan when he recovers from knee surgery?
Phil
I was told about a month ago that Brendan had visited the McGinn family home, and John McGinn was signing for Celtic. It was the talk of Clydebank.
What happened, that he is now a Villa player?
HILL 16,
I was also going to make the point that Armstrong played 40 games last season. Rogic is effectively a squad player too by Paul’s definition given he is frequently subbed after 60 mins.
Had we signed McGinn you may ave found him coming on for Ntcham last night.
We frequently rotated out Ntcham for Armstrong at points last season or the vice Versa of that. Rotations of McGregor and Rogic and Armstrong at points also. You may have found that Brown became part of that with McGinn in order to change our shape in certain games at certain points.
PADDY GALLAGHER
Exactly!
And who does he play for now?
Another Celtic supporting hippocryte who will win nothing in England but, if he is clever, won’t need to worry about his pension.
I don’t wish him anything.
Hope you are well!
GREENINBINGLEYINOSLO @ 7:36 PM,
Yes, the fact that Brendan is keeping the quality players at the Club for longer is hugely important. I think it is rather disingenuous to cite Brendan’s recruitment as his main contribution to Celtic and his perceived failure in that regard to be responsible for the squads current malaise.
To be fair to the Board they have backed him to keep players on board by offering better salaries and bonuses.
That is where he’s been strongest, firstly working out who in the squad had potential. Remember when he first came in he looked at every single player through the whole squad.
He even took in a development squad cup game the evening before a UCL qualifier when he first arrived to see what he had.
Then he went about improving the players in the squad, in some cases quite considerably. He then went about securing the players he wanted to keep on better longer contracts.
So recruitment has only been a part of his squad development strategy. He also adds value. Rather than say selling VvD to Southhampton. BR would look at holding on to him, developing him and then selling him to Liverpool. Our players value has soared under Rodger.
Which is why, when he wanted in some real quality in at the beginning of this transfer window it was disappointing he was ignored. I can see no reason for it and quite frankly the excuses being put forward only serve to underline why Brendan was so unhappy.
Hail Hail
So you would let Dembele go for £4m then Phillbhoy? No opinion? No acknowledgement that Rodgers has purchased those players at a low price and Celtic could sell them at a higher price?
DD
I’m guessing we didn’t match the wages Villa offered.
Money talks.
As usual.
Hope you are well!
delaneys dunky working on it will let you know.hh.
D17
Hope they kept the big banners that covered the empty seats in LL upper stand. They would need more banners to cover apathetic supporters seats. Pray that scenario does not happen.
YNWA
DD 8.16
From where I sit , the relationship looks strained at least , and possibly broken. Today’s lead article ( one sided ) doesn’t help my concerns.
Someone needs to organise a sit down and get this sorted , Mr Desmond perhaps or it will fester.
If not , Peter should look out the banners to cover the empty seats again. Despite some questionable recruitment , the fans will back Brendan .
Hope I’m wrong and it gets resolved. Soon. Scunnered CSC
Corkcelt
We will never know what Celtic could have done in the way of cleaning up the Scottish game because Celltic wont discuss the issue.
After six years of silence, in the face of repeated ridiculous deciisions, common sense only leads to one conclusion…. Celtic have something to hide.
the more interesting question for me is why so many of (mostly older ) Celtic fans get so upset at the thought of people questioning the Board.
Many of us (and I am old enough to count myself as one) grew up in a time when we didn’t question authority… Church, or Police, … or the Board. I would suggest that this feeling was particularly strong among Celtic’s largely Catholic fan base, where hierarchy and authority were given great stock… it was bred into us.
And, in many minority cultures, (such as Irish Cathoics in Scotland), a not uncommon view was that we take care of our own. so, the idea that some of our own would do us dirty is an anethma (it is one thing to skim from the ticket sales, but doing a deal with the devil .. almost incomprehensible to many of our older suppperters)… and, of course, there was the old chestunut that, as a minority community, we are already disadvantaged, so if there is any wrongdoing, keep quiet about it … otherwise, we just reinforce the majoirty view of us as lesser…
the unfortunate thing is that our community, like every comminty, has its good uns and its bad uns…
some unscrupulous profiteers will play upon, not only our communiity’s loyalties, but also upon its old fears and prejudices, for its own profits.
If we are being honest, we should not be afraid to ask questions. And if our Board is behing honest, they should not be afraid of answering them.,
Watching Super Cup Final between the Madrid teams of Real and Atletico is making me feel slightly less unhappy about not being in “Champions” League this season ?
Corkcelt said:
” Repeat something often enough and it becomes an accepted fact.”
Not only does it become an accepted fact but if one suggests that the `accepted fact ` is, in fact nothing of the sort,one is considered a happy clapping, gullible simpleton.
Surely , if an give an opinion is to have validity, that opinion should be supported with some evidence and not be merely conjecture and personal interpretation ?
JJ
PS Is there any evidence for Kris Commons` claim that the dressing room is fractured?
Some on here need to get a grip of themselves,one saying John McGinn is a. Hyprocrite,why because he signed for Aston villa rather than Celtic,it’s. not his fault,he choose a club that wanted him,end off,it’s all getting boring move on support the club,get of some young players like Jack Henry,he is a easy target,we all know we’re the problems are, incidentally I thought young Hendry had a good game,so let’s go after the real culprits,and see if we can shift before they do more damage to our Club.
D.D.
Another win for the Bankies tonight.
They beat Rossvale 2.1 in the cup. That’s them into the quarters.
Cumbernauld are losing 2.1 to Petershill in the same tournament.
They have floodlights, so that kicked off half an hour later.
Hail Hail
:)))))))))))))))))))))
Philbhoy .
Whether you rate J.McGinn or not , Brendan wanted him , Broony said he was his toughest opponent, Lenny thinks he’s a superstar & Stubbs raved about him.
He wanted to sign for Celtic but we managed to miss him due to a gamble going wrong.
MULLET AND CO2
If, in the circumstances, that was the best offer I could get, and he wanted away…………..yes.
Hot Smoked.
If Boyatta is still deemed to be in that dressing room, then I would be incredibly disappointed if the dressing room wasn’t fractured.
Hail Hail
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE @ 7:56 PM,
Yes, it’s always a bit hit and miss when looking at transfer fees… though a list that states loan, free, compensation fee etc does not the in with profligate spend…
MULLET AND CO 2 @ 8:13 PM,
Has six BR recruits that could well bring in £50M.
Was a centre back too much to ask for?
Hail Hail
Watching the supercup with Real vAtletico.
As expected a lot of good football from both sides.
I criticised JF last night for facing backwards and no movement after returning ball from where it came.
The wide players on both teams when facing backwards and returning a pass immediately attack any space in front of them so the tactic is not negative or passive like ours.
Varanne and Godin have both shown why the are two of the best defenders in the world.
Varanne is very patient and smart as Atletico often play short passing in the centre and has just dropped back slightly staying central and blocking attack.
Godin is the same and makes the game seem easy.
We should be showing these guys videos on repeat at Lennoxtown and teach our defenders not to ballwatch and defend the territory rather than chasing man and ball.