The Guardian did an excellent piece on Wednesday on how referees in various European territories would view the penalty box wrestling of the Juventus players. In short, there is a variance in how these offences are punished. Who knew?
Juventus knew. I hear they watched four videos of referee Alberto Undiano Mallenco ahead of the Celtic game.
You have to admire their thoroughness. They had a plan to combat Celtic and needed to know if the referee would let them away with it. Gone are the days when someone at Juve would simply pick up the phone and ‘ask’. The danger from Celtic was known, illegal holding would nullify this danger and watching a few videos established what players would get away with.
It’s no longer sufficient to scout your opponents, if you want an edge in this game, scout the referee too.
Every day’s a school day.
I hear from a good contact that a journalist who recently departed the media for a job in the lower leagues once wanted to be a bit of a Jungle Jim. Apparently he was keen to ditch his industry for a job at Celtic back in the 90s. What an escape!
On Friday 1 March the Lisbon Lions will be at the Kerrydale Suite providing commentary and answering questions on their magnificent European Cup final win in 1967. This has never happened in 46 years since that game, to say it is a unique opportunity fails to tell the whole story.
The event is part of our 125 4 125 campaign – central to reinvigorating the charitable spirit which is part of the club we love. It will be a family occasions, tickets are available at £10 for adults and £5 for children. The night has been organised by several fans working in conjunction with the people at Celtic Charity, so please do your best to support this great occasion. Individual tickets or tables are available, details here.
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lionroars67
10:20 on 16 February, 2013
ernie lynch
10:01 on
16 February, 2013
lionroars67
09:47 on 16 February, 2013
Hows the fishing going Ernie? maybe try a more subtle bait
#########
Why provide links to the Herald?
Why not just C&P the article?
What’s the agenda?
….pfayr
10:22 on 16 February, 2013
Mea culpa
Couldn’t have put it better myself ……. LLLLOOOOLLLL
I think we will do well to win today
Euro downer and DU are flying ….
Lionroars67 – it was more his reasoning than the policy that got to me. He should be encouraging kids on his constituency not suggesting there’s no hope.
We will win today…will be an open game.
……………….Forster
……..Rogne Wilson Mulgrew
………………..Kayal
Matthews Rogic McGeough Izaguirre
…………..Stokes Hooper
My team for today, it’ll end up 5-4, but will lift the gloom.
Go on you Celts.
I suspect that we’ll lose a penalty and have a man sent off in the return in Turin for holding in the box, whilst Juve will be seen as white as the driven snow with a 3 goal advantage.
uefacyniccsc
• ….PFayr
10:30 on 16 February, 2013
I think we will do well to win today
Euro downer and DU are flying ….
Sober up BUD, we will horse United
BigJoePREDICTS a4.1win4theHOOPS
Pfayr aye it’ll not be a walkover, a goal each half so 2-0 methinks.
Back on track CSC
✊
At John Lennon airport…… Doire awaits……
Coorslad shout me a Guiness .
V
promises right, left and centre
victims of everything that ever happen to them
bullied by everybody in the playground
bannished to the 3rd division
not allowed to play european football
sevco are something else so they are, what whatever you think of them, you cant accuse tem of being boring
and btw i think there’s every chance they’ll do everyting green says yorkshireman style
yorkshireman style/ gangnam style..
both fads that will be gone in the blink of an eye
European downer and United flying? :-)
I`m still going! Come on the Celts!
Kind of off subject but what about the Scottish Cup? Are we interested in that or are we more concerned with wrapping up the league, then letting the players go off on vacation early so we can get them back early to prepare for the CL qualifiers?
I understand we can’t do both i.e. the further we go in the Scottish Cup will mean we can’t let the players go off early on vacation, therefore their vacation time when it comes will eat into the CL qualifiers preparation time.
The players know this of course and ultimately they will make the decision for us.
Alternatively we could play ‘Team 2’ in the Scottish Cup.
Did anyone see the press conference with Kenny Shiels where he is praising the Hearts pies?
He even goes as far as to say they could be better than Killie pies.
Was it the Killie pie man who was going to be issuing a winding up order to Killie by any chance?
Stephbhoy
Many many adjectives I could use before I would get boring when describing the Huns
Are you suggesting that Greens moon howling nonsense will be achieved ??
Interesting game in prospect today. United are a far better side than the recent 4-0 reverse suggests. Jackie M has already added a further dimension and we are coming off the back of a very unusual 0-3 defeat at Celtic Park. Like I said. Interesting game in prospect today.
JJ
I still expect to win and I am just about to leave to see if my expectations are realised 0:-)
Not many finer feelings in life, weekend off, longish lie, couple of bacon rolls, couple of pints, onto the bus with like minded people and onto Paradise!
3 zip
Before this thread closes, I should comment on the main argument.
I am not buying this Juve did their homework angle (with the implication that we did not). It was a self-praising statement from a winning coach. It is right up there with “We pinned that critical article on the dressing room wall and we made them eat their words”. It is the kind of thing you only hear after a win. It is post-hoc rationalisation. Like the fable of The Fox and The Grapes.
The critics of Celtic are doing the same thing. We lost so we must have been tactically naive, outcoached, no plan B, poorer subs than they did etc; etc; The same kind of lazy criticism that you see in fan websites from elite CL clubs down to Scottish 3rd division and even into the amateur game. It is knee jerk and fairly unthinking.
If Juve had done their homework so well, how come they allowed Efe two free headers? How did they let Kris Commons run free to mess up a good cross from Izzy? How come none of their goals came from their targeting of Izzy bombing on and leaving spaces? How come Pirlo was so stifled and struggling to get into the game? How come Wanyama and Izzy were not stifled?
This reduction of the game to coaches manipulating players as chess pieces, grossly exaggerates the influence of the coach. They are influential but they are rarely as influential as players are in the outcome of a game. Marchisio deserves more credit than Conte.
Good coaches do 95% of their work on the training ground and not in the pre-game or half-time dressing room. That is a myth that fans want to believe; the hairdryer treatment that makes players become 2nd half superstars whilst overlooking the fact that the managerial genius responsible failed to stop them being first half flops. It also fails to recognise that the opposition manager is often doing the same cliched intervention with his troops with the opposite effect.
Neil Lennon is damned by praise of his opponent. It looks like he has spotted this trend judging by his comments below from the STV article on NewsNow:-
“It’s a myth that Juventus `did their homework’. That’s rubbish. Juventus defend like that week-in, week-out in Serie A.
“If anything we had done our homework and we made sure the referee was aware of it and he was looking at it time and again and Juventus went unpunished.
“We needed a strong referee and we didn’t have that.
“It was blatant. I have seen photographs where the shirt was almost pulled off Gary Hooper’s back and he ends up in the goal at one stage.
“I admire Gary for keeping his cool, if it had been me I might have got sent off for something I would have regretted later on.
“Gianluca Vialli (former Juventus skipper) said we should have had two penalties, Graham Poll and Dermot Gallagher (former referees)…..Trevor Francis said that even in his time playing in the 80s (in Italy) it was never as blatant as what he seen the other night, so these guys can’t all be wrong and the referee right.”
Wilson in today’s Herald can’t even force himself to write ‘Neil Lennon’, the first name doesn’t exist for that hurting hun.
Whatever…
Looking forward to the game today: Saturday 3 o’clock kick off at Celtic Park.
What could be better?
(being an exiled Celt I won’t be there in person, but I’ll be watching it somewhere, somehow).
Gardez la Foi
….PFayr
yorkshireman style…. your damn tottin, i can see a big cafe (burger van) with a couple of seat at it, init
museum in building smaller than ma flat init
sponsorship deal with yorkshire pudding init
I am a wee bit puzzled by this thing about the ball having to be play.
Taken to the limit this can be interpreted as permitting someone to hook an opponent, without punishment, just so long as the ball is not in play.
Whatever happened to un gentlemanly conduct whether the ball is in play or not.
As time goes on, Tuesday night stinks even more.
As for return in Turin. NL should not field any player who is likely to feature in next season’s qualifiers.
Rather he shoui do an Athletico Madrid. Field a side simply not to lose at any cost and not have to worry about how many yellow or red cards are received in the process.
Listened to the Sportsound podcast from Thurs on the last 12 months of thems, I thought it was a very good discussion and no punches were pulled on where the whole blame lay- exRFC custodians.
Heard some comments it was pretty powderpuff but I don’t agree.
( I am aware that McConville and Muirhead were pulled, shame on the BBC for that)
Interesting comments from Vittorio Pazzini, a Juve fan on the STTBS site. It includes digs at Rod Stewart & Belle and Sebastian. Maybe SoT cn advise us of some Juve supporting pop stars to whom we can retaliate with some criticism:-
“What I do know is that Juventus demoralized his (Rod Stewart) beloved Celtic in their own home, administering a defeat even more dispiriting in its fine details than the video for “Do Ya Think I’m Sexy?”
On Tuesday night, the Bianconeri truly returned to the European stage, running up a three-away-goal lead on the Scottish champions while shutting them out entirely. It wasn’t easy — quite the contrary, which makes it all the more impressive. Even Alessio Tacchinardi had something positive to say!
Surrounded by a loud but ultimately toothless partisan crowd, Juve did not nearly have the possession they’re accustomed to, suffering long, sustained attacks from their opponents. Yet when a rare chance on goal materialized, Juve were finally what they needed to be: clinical and technically proficient.
Finally, we can say that possession is temporary, but class is permanent — instead of the opposite.
Celtic were left with an empty, silent stadium, squabbling teammates and a manager who had the sand to bemoan us for effectively matching the same “physical” play that seemed to be their only stratagem. To the Scots, who now face a daunting task (and an authentically intimidating crowd) in Turin, I advise them to listen to their countrymen Belle & Sebastian and do something pretty while they can.”
Efe to score anytime in 90mins 8/1 with hills.
God loves a trier :))
till later off to meet a CQNr then onwards to paradise.
2:1 Hoops
quonno,
The ref can’t give a penalty for an offence when the ball isn’t in play – but he can discipline the players involved. So hook someone while the game is stopped and you should still be red carded,
setting free the bears
One of our posters was saying his Italian neighbours name for juve is “hunchbacks”
because they cant lift their heads at home for the shame of their “match fixing and cheating”
nooffencetoanyoneapartfromjuvecsc
In bed with the flu so logged onto CQN for a CELTIC pick-me-up. Can’t believ that 50% of the overnight and morning blog is Rangers this, Sevco that CG this etc. I have to say that just does my head in… Logging off to find an alternative source of amusement or to try and get some sleep…
Yours in CELTIC!
TB&F.
A much fairer reflection on the Juve game from Glenn Gibbons, (love the line on “reaction being the child of expectation”) :-
“THE entire, complex debate on justice as perceived in the unfolding and the outcome of a football match, with all its attendant subjectivity, was set before a diverse, nationwide audience when Celtic were effectively tipped out of the Champions League by Juventus.
Despite the myriad, wildly varying allegiances, prejudices and perspectives, the consensus appeared to conclude that the Scottish champions deserved nothing more rewarding than second prize, with only a small minority rather puzzlingly convinced that they had been badly treated by the Fates.
There was certainly good cause to bring a charge of abdication of responsibilities against a Spanish referee whose idea of legitimate defensive measures seemed to derive from an admiration of how Stanley Baker and the troops repelled the Zulus at Rorke’s Drift.
But the match official was an irrelevance to the lumbering, sluggish defending and unthreatening finishing of Celtic and the starkly contrasting solidity and imaginative, lightning-quick and deadly penetration of Juventus.
Neil Lennon, too, has been prosecuted in many quarters for a team selection that included the most culpable defender on the night, Efe Ambrose, and the Celtic manager himself admitted afterwards that, given another chance, he might have done things differently.
Ambrose’s slovenliness that led to the opening goal, however, could have had nothing to do with fatigue from his appearance in the final of the Africa Cup of Nations just 48 hours before, as the Italians scored in the third minute. Nor was there anything but incompetence to explain his pathetic header straight at goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon from only six yards’ range with the score still at 1-0. His desperate miscalculation, leading to the third goal, though, was the act of a man whose brain seemed, by then, to have seized up along with his legs.
But the most absurd consequence of Celtic’s bad experience in midweek has been the savagery of the criticism from so many of the club’s own supporters. This has ranged from observations about the weight difference between the players on each side (Celtic’s apparently carrying excess poundage) to a clamour for the removal of just about everyone involved and the conclusion that the team is basically useless.
This was some overnight transformation from the joy of the day of the match, when the latest half-yearly returns revealed unprecedented economic well-being and the talk was of the outstanding achievement of Lennon and his squad to have qualified from a group in which they had started as fourth seeds.
But reaction is the child of expectation. And it was the deepest mystery of the entire event that anyone who had paid attention to what had gone before could realistically anticipate anything other than victory for the visitors. Too many memories seemed to have been clogged with an image of Celtic’s victory over Barcelona to allow room for the recollection of how Juve had twice played Chelsea off the park and beaten the tough Shakhtar in Donetsk in the course of an unbeaten run to winning their group. There appeared to be no acknowledgement, either, of Celtic’s shaky scoreless draw in the home match against Benfica or the sweaty, unconvincing 2-1 win over Spartak Moscow – courtesy of a late penalty kick by Kris Commons – in the final group match, also in Glasgow.
In addition to all of this, those Parkhead supporters who habitually flock to the bookmakers to do some betting business on these great European nights must have been struck by the discovery that Juventus were odds-on, with their own side on offer at a fraction under 4-1. For a team with their exceptional record on their own turf, this ought surely to have been a sobering introduction to reality.
Defeat by a margin of three goals would certainly have appeared extremely unlikely, even to a hardened punter with a healthy regard for the odds compilers’ judgment. Nor was it really deserved by a Celtic team who did enough to merit a less demoralising defeat. But, whatever team Lennon fielded, the deficit between the home side and their tormentors looked insurmountable.”
Lads, brace yourselves… CQN naps winners from the last few weeks…
Week 25 – 19th Jan (Mariners confirm Rogic deal)
Bada Bing – Valdaw 10/11
BULL67 – Gertrude Versed 4/5
Glen – Big Sylv 11/4
leftclicktic – Welsh Inlet 5/1
Valentine’s Day – Morning Assembly 10/11
Week 26 – 26th Jan (What did Juve learn from Tuesday?)
Magnificentseven – Reve de Sivola 15/8
MHARK67 – Katenko 4/1
Week 27 – 2nd Feb (January strategy and short-term cover)
bobbymurdoch’s winklepickers – Singing Ridge 5/2
Glen – Speak the Truth 9/2
Week 28 – 9th Feb (Financial Fair Play, Winding Up Orders, new CQN Magazine)
bobbymurdoch’s winklepickers – Tarooq 7/2
Magnificentseven – Ma Filleule 7/4
MHARK67 – My Tent or Yours 5/1
Rockon Neil Lennon – My Tent or Yours 5/1
voguepunter – Master of the Sea 8/1
Cheers, fleagle1888
T, B & F
Could you not find anything in the 50% (your figures) that was not related to Sevco that you could comment on?
It does seem bizarre to focus on the stuff that does not interest you? Are you obsessed? :-)
Sorry if already posted
———————
Maley’s Bhoys@MaleysBhoys
“Best Unofficial Website 2012” – 1st @CQN with 449 votes, 2nd @CelticMindedcom with 197 votes, 3rd @kerrydalestreet with 158 votes. Congrats
———————-
13 hrsMaley’s Bhoys@MaleysBhoys
“Best Unofficial Media Outlet 2012”: 1st @CQN w/ 638 votes, 2nd @celticrumours podcast w/ 165 votes, 3rd @MattMcGlone9’s A.V. w/ 130 votes.
am sick of the mulgrew love in, its time to accept he’s decent but he should not be in first 11 every week (squad player), with 4 months remaining on contracts i would rather see a few of the young bhoys play than rogne and paddy who are off in the summer.
healthy lead in league should be used to give our most promising young players a chance to shine
For those of you who are interested in Nordic drama.
Norwegian TV
Bet it will have higher production values than Sportscene
stephbhoy
11:44 on
16 February, 2013
Rogne and Paddy have been injured for long spells this season and consequently have rarely featured.
Mulgrew has an adaptability that many in the squad lack. I’d suggest that is the main reason that he has played in so many games.
SFTB.
Definitely not obsessed. I enjoyed a lot of the good Celtic craic. Focussed on reading good Celtic contributions and tired and bored of wading through too much Sevco crap.
Yours in Celtic,
TB&F.
Ball in play….nonsense….Eden Hazard sent off for kicking the ball under the ballbhoy….
kikinthenakas
11:54 on
16 February, 2013
Yes but a foul cannot be given until the ball is in play.