I remember getting annoyed at the grief Gordon Strachan took after David Fernandez inspired Dundee United to a draw at Celtic Park. It was disproportionate, despite the poor performance, and ignored the sporting reality that weaker teams can get it right and leave Celtic Park with a point. As well as a lot of credit for their efforts.
Positives first. Many things didn’t work for Celtic yesterday but James Forrest looked to be back to his best. There was only one occasion he didn’t get past the Killie fullback all day, and he recovered to dispossess two opponents and win the ball back.
For James, it’s all about fitness and confidence. Right now, he has both.
I looked at the clock: 3 minutes had gone, Jozo Simunovic was still on his feet. ‘We’re breaking new ground’, I thought. Kilmarnock defended their penalty area all day, so we were seldom troubled, but you and I have seen enough football to know that’s not the whole story. Jozo was immaculate, didn’t put a foot wrong, covered ground with pace and precision. Threw himself into tackles and won the ball.
The contrast with recent defensive performances could have scarcely been more marked.
Elsewhere it didn’t go so well. Tom Rogic and Nir Bitton were both inhibited. Stuart Armstrong prodded but seemed out of sync with his team-mates. Passes regularly found an opponent. From my seat, it looked like our movement and use of space was inefficient.
The last 30 minutes of the game saw Kilmarnock clear their lines and regroup under sustained pressure. During this period, I was confident the goal would come, it usually does. Maybe the extra dimension we hoped we’ve recruited in Carlton Cole, out ill yesterday, would have given our wing play more of a target.
Since writing on the subject on Friday night I’ve seen some of the sectarian abuse left on Facebook about our director, Ian Livingston, amid a diatribe against refugees and all sorts of people who are minorities in the UK.
Years ago I wrote that there are few values we can anchor the club to. Scotland is changing, as are peoples’ sense of identity, no more so than when it comes to religious identity. We can’t, nor should we, impose restrictions on who becomes a Celtic fan. Our demographic is largely left of centre, but a Lisbon Lion went on to become a Tory councillor, so there’s no political bar to supporting Celtic.
I also know an Ulster unionist, who for several years joined his family and friends as a Celtic season ticket holder. He was always made welcome, and didn’t find the celebration of Irish heritage at Celtic incompatible with his identity. As the generations pass, we’ll see more of this. People will care less about 20th century politics (not to mention 17th century) and your view on transubstantiation.
Our founding value is that we are open to all. You will find a welcome at Celtic irrespective of colour, race or religion, you don’t need to care about Scotland or Ireland, we have Poles, English, Norwegians, Americans, Aussies and many more. Few of them had an Irish grannie.
These values are under threat across Europe. We should take every opportunity to reinforce them.
I took some advice on whether to out those behind the racist abuse yesterday, but I’m glad Ian Livingston did so direct on the Affiliation site (and apologies for the direct quote appearing on a CQN article, I pulled it as soon as I saw it).
I was also challenged over the weekend for criticising the chairman’s right to use any available platform to call out racism. I don’t feel qualified to say that’s not allowed.
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Owen
I was beginning to doubt myself about what he had said and what I thought his motives were so thanks
And I agree with the rest of your post.
I’m not sure lurking and keeping quiet about it serves Celtic well, though. If we really believe that we can make a difference as fans than a more measured, less hysterical voice has to have its place in the debate. It doesn’t seem to be at the moment, although God knows what’s been going on on here over the last couple of days
BTW – I have no “agenda” here – other than if anyone wants to make accusations then they should be able to back them up. Maybe my notion is misplaced and the reputation of Celtic’s fans is no longer considered important. Used to be the case that we were proud of it. Seeing today’s headline article in the Jewish Chronicle about us suggests that the only people who have any kind of regard for this is – ourselves. As I say – maybe misplaced after all.
Owen,
Couldn’t agree more. Said as much last night. Driving me away from the best Celtic site.
Owen,
Couldn’t agree more.
“Since then, neither he, nor Lord Livingston, nor anyone at Celtic are making any kind of attempt to either correct that perception.”
Natnow,
Celtic made a statement on Friday evening in response to a few excitables.
HH
Sorry about the double post.
ict away Sunday – toughie, pitched and mibbed to be expected
Nothing new about the way the official attendance was recorded at CP on Saturday, and we’ve even had a CQN’er that worked for Celtic Ticketing confirm that ST holders are in attendance, even when they don’t officially attend.
The Celtic support pre MON and the McCann/new stadium era was a core 25,000 – 30,000k and with everything that’s ‘going down’ right now and especially since ‘the great revelations’, I reckon the number of ST holders whether they were there on Saturday or not, is pretty good.
We’ve known for years we’d return to the core Celtic support, at least now we’ve got the internet.
Not sure if already posted …..
http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/24/forget-john-lewis-celtic-have-just-won-the-award-for-best-christmas-advert-5522541/?
Jobo/BT
Seriously miffed with Porto @4/5 with their home record.
Bayern & Barca @-2 – Arsenal & Chelsea @-1 + Porto!
Muito! :-(
Natknow
But Ian Bankier clarified his comments on Saturday, I believe, and some on here accused him of trying to unsay what he said. They press reaction was entirely predictable for two reasons 1) The SMSM do not need an excuse to portray us in a bad light, a fact that is pointed out regularly by the same board haters when some of our support misbehave and they are criticised by the board. 2) The hysterical misrepresentation and over reaction to, and of, the comments at the AGM fueled the media frenzy.
They cannot have it both ways, unrelenting critiscm of Celtic but absolved of all blame when it embarrasses the club.
Natknow
you’ve got to think what Bankier was intending to do – he’s the chairman of the board making a public display of support for someone on his board who has been racially abused. Imagine if he hadn’t – how would lord livingstone have felt?
His choice of words was poor, but I don’t think his intention was
bsr
We have known for a while that Celtic include all season ticket holders in attendance figures.
Our Tulliallan brainwashed tix holder knows this too , couldn’t be arsed going to game on saturday….but will stick it to Celts in his absence any ways.
Late Roma comeback?
So after losing 3 out of first 4 games Arsenal ‘only’ have to better the 3-2 reversal dished out by the Greeks in their previous meeting to progress into the last 16.
I hope they do it if I’m honest but I won’t be holding my breath.
Going by the last few games, only John Travolta has had a worse performance in Greece :)
HH
For the avoidance of doubt I would be happy to support a Labour party worthy of the name. Either in the UK or Ireland but they have both become spineless “lite” versions of the right wing parties in pursuit of votes over principles.
When boyhood fire was in my blood …..
GEORDIE MUNRO on 24TH NOVEMBER 2015 9:24 PM
“Since then, neither he, nor Lord Livingston, nor anyone at Celtic are making any kind of attempt to either correct that perception.”
Natnow,
Celtic made a statement on Friday evening in response to a few excitables.
HH
—————————————–
That was last week and in response to the joint statement issued by the Celtic Trust, Association and GB about Ian Bankier. This week and all media are reporting Celtic fans as posting antisemitic and racist abuse against Lord Livingston. That’s the perception that should be getting corrected – and it should be made clear that it is being investigated, if that’s what’s happening.
To be honest the feelings of Ian Livinstone matter not a hot to me. Much like my families feelings mean to him when he sits with his Bullingdon chums making it as difficult as possible for us to make ends meet.
That’s the issue here. Nothing else. A lot of supporters don’t like it. 10,000 signed a petition. The racism claims are merely a deflection tactic. One that backfired big time.
Tories Out!
Vp,
I couldn’t have put it better myself
HH
Sorry about the typos
I have followed Celtic for 50 years. I can’t call myself a supporter because I don’t contribute to the club financially. I can however call myself a fan. I go to games now very occasionally and to be honest I’m very selective with the games I go to. If I’m honest I’m now a big game hunter. ‘Twas not always the case. From 1965 til around 1978 I don’t think I missed a home game. Don’t anyone try and test me if this is the case by asking me to prove it by answering cryptic questions relating to games spanning those years, I’ll fail. A combination of medication and advancing years now seriously affect both my long term and even short term memory. What I can tell you though is this. Even in my darkest hours as a Celtic fan there has always been a chink of light. Something in the team to give you hope. Our worst ever team ALWAYS had someone to get you off your seat. A game changer. A maverick. A light at the end of the tunnel.
I’m channel hopping at the moment and the seeded teams in the champions league ALL have at least one game changer. I’m watching players feint, dummy, dribble, command, with vision, nous, flair, style, bravado, balls, and skill. I’m watching players playing their hearts out for the jersey, never say die attitudes, this is for our fans, this is my club, and I’ll do it til I drop. I’m watching players running into space and DEMANDING the ball. I’m watching players giving 100% for their club and their fans, whether ther on £300k or £300 per week. And I remember Celtic ALWAYS had at least one player like that, sometimes 10 players like that, and, now, I look at the present Celtic team and, the Celtic teams of the last couple of years and I ask myself, where is that player. That my friends is what Celtic are missing. We don’t have one player who can do any of the aforementioned skills, and, until such times as we get a player with that skill set and heart, we will always get pumped by teams from countries that were once cannon fodder to us. It’s all so sad.
A decent manager also helps.
Praecepta,
I also had Gent as I thought they were way overpriced at 4/1 away to Lyon. The only game still playing and currently 1 – 1
Ah, the ole Jobo timing magic strikes again! Gent score!
67Heaven 9.09pm-
I think there have been many people pushing political agendas on CQN in the 10 years that I`ve lurked on here:
– Many people wedded to the Yes/ No sides of the independence debate in the run-up to (and in some cases in the aftermath of) the referendum;
– The Singing Defective and his UKIP guff;
– Macjay chundering on about socialists as though they are lepers and some clear and present danger to the security of Celtic plc (the latest instalment of which was delivered this morning);
I`ve never noticed HamiltonTim pushing any political agendas on here though so I think you`re out of order to say that’s the case if its not so.
OWEN on 24TH NOVEMBER 2015 9:29 PM
Natknow
But Ian Bankier clarified his comments on Saturday, I believe, and some on here accused him of trying to unsay what he said. They press reaction was entirely predictable for two reasons 1) The SMSM do not need an excuse to portray us in a bad light, a fact that is pointed out regularly by the same board haters when some of our support misbehave and they are criticised by the board. 2) The hysterical misrepresentation and over reaction to, and of, the comments at the AGM fueled the media frenzy.
They cannot have it both ways, unrelenting critiscm of Celtic but absolved of all blame when it embarrasses the club.
—————————————————
If you look back at my contributions of over 10 years on CQN I have never been a critic of the board. My irritation with this is that there appears to be no-one willing to protect the reputation of the fans. We have been tarred with a broad brush and that is ongoing. It’s not limited to the Scottish Mainstream Morons. The Jewish Chronicle is read worldwide and is freely reporting the Celtic fans as sending vile antisemitic comments publicly to Lord Livingston. All without anyone having established who actually made the comments.
““A good reputation is hard-won and easily lost. But the lost reputation has invariably been given away by the actions of the holder, rather than been taken away by somebody else.”
In this case, not necessarily so.
Who made the comments to Lord Livingston – Celtic fans? What are their names??
CELTIC40ME on 24TH NOVEMBER 2015 9:29 PM
Natknow
you’ve got to think what Bankier was intending to do – he’s the chairman of the board making a public display of support for someone on his board who has been racially abused. Imagine if he hadn’t – how would lord livingstone have felt?
His choice of words was poor, but I don’t think his intention was
——————————————-
I agree – and already stated that I don’t think for a minute that was Ian Bankier’s intention.
However – the damage is now done and no attempt is being made to fix it.
Herbo
You should apologize for the factual innacuracies instead. Livingstone didn’t go Oxford.
Your post reads like a bitter I’ll-informed angry rant. I thought I’d Celtic supporters were supposed to be opposed to ignorant prejudice?
Jobo
Me to @4/1 – unfortunately Porto screwed the £1 line that would have paid circa 50/1. Back to the abacus for tomorrow night!
:-)
……anyway…….lets get back to politics…….I’m going to the Guardian site to talk about fitba’
praecepta…
Porto gubbed my bhoys coupon, six out of seven, away to his kip with a petted lip.
Such is the life of a punter, well that’s what I tell him :)
Talking of that… I got handed just under £400 today for winning a sweep in work, by feck it will be handy this Christmas. HH
sipsini
Mind and cut-in Sooty for a wee drink!
:-)
Natknow
No one on the platform at the AGM called Celtic supporters racist. Some people misrepresented Ian Bankier’s comments deliberately to create a controversy out of nothing. The press, who never miss an opportunity to put the boot into us, lapped the hysterical comments up.
Even when presented with the evidence that Lord Livingston was abused some still prefer to blame Celtic for creating the controversy.
Time for a wee birthday drink and then beddy byes.
Celtic40Me
I didn’t say he went to Oxford. I said he sits with his Bullingdon chums.
I don’t like Tories. They have devasted this country over the last 40 years and continue to attack the working classes as they quaff their champagne and caviar.
As a shareholder and ST holder for over 20 years I am entitled to say who I would like and would not like on our board.
So yes. I do hate Tories. I absolutely despise them. That’s my perogative.
You’ll find many more like me amongst our support.
OWEN on 24TH NOVEMBER 2015 9:51 PM
Natknow
No one on the platform at the AGM called Celtic supporters racist. Some people misrepresented Ian Bankier’s comments deliberately to create a controversy out of nothing. The press, who never miss an opportunity to put the boot into us, lapped the hysterical comments up.
Even when presented with the evidence that Lord Livingston was abused some still prefer to blame Celtic for creating the controversy.
Time for a wee birthday drink and then beddy byes.
——————————————————————————–
I know – I already agreed with you that Ian Bankier did not say that.
Enjoy the birthday drink.
VP
Dogged the game then moaned about being marked as present ;-)
praecepta…
Will do.
By God, if Hun looks could kill when they found out I’d won it…made it all the more sweeter :))
What Ian Bankier actually said. I know I was there and heard it as he fought back his crocodile tears like an absolute clownshoe.
“This campaign has verged on the criminally racist”