The Scottish Football League programme is now finished with only play-offs still to complete but there is still a great deal of business to complete. The remarkable persistence of First Division clubs to find a financial model which will allow them to retain full time football shows no sign of ending, despite the difficulties presented from a couple of quarters.
Meanwhile the Third Division champions have even more pressing matters. They have now finished their league programme and can now officially be told what they have perhaps unofficially suspected for some weeks. Charles Green has agreed to remain a director until the end of this month. Before he goes the ownership of Ibrox, as well as the appropriateness of the club’s IPO in December, will need to be established. They have a three week window but nothing happens until the lawyers report, which I expect this week.
It was two years ago today Sir David Murray took a £1 payment and relieved himself of outstanding commitments to Lloyds Banking Group, the legacy of his time at Rangers. The support Craig Whyte received at critical times in the months which followed was breath-taking. Every hack, side-kick, and numpty ‘fan’ who told the rest to set aside all common sense deserve a medal for what they did to that club.
They don’t even understand the mock-worship Celtic fans offer Whyte is a parody on where they were 2011-12.
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Kit/Vmhan
Just let me know where I have to put my contribution.
MWD
Johnny the tim.
If your lurking in portugal !!!
Enjoy your break…it’s roasting here…day off for me ;-))
murdochbhoy, yermanfrommk
07:47 on 7 May, 2013
KTF……..there is a ‘big picture’ here……. I am confident we will get the balance right next season…
Vmhan:
kitalba will call you in fifteen minutes.
1967 (February 7) Celtic Glasgow (Scotland) 0-Dinamo Zagreb (Yugoslavia) 1
Many Happy Returns, Zbyszek
Zbyszek.
I enjoy reading your posts.happy 70th;-))
Hail Hail.
Zbyszek:
I hope today is a good day for you mate! I hope every day is a good day for you.
Zbyszek
Many happy returns from a sunny north staffs – have a great day
Picture the scene.
World Player of the year nominations are out – Messi is missing as is Ronaldo.
The reason given – You guys play for Barcelona and Real Madrid – you guys are so good that everyone expects you to win everything. Oh and by the way you did not win the Inter Universe cup this year.
So we have decided to give a nomination to Peter Crouch as he has done really well for Stoke this year and while he did not win anything he is disadvantaged by not playing for Barca or Madrid.
Then the German manager of the Year is announced.
Jupp Heynckes and Jurgen Klopp sit and wait wondering who it will be – hold on the winner is Norbert Meier from Fortuna Dusseldorf – he is a really nice guy and did not have the financial clout of the big guns.
Would it ever ever happen ???
No – only in Scotland.
What these clowns don’t realise is that the selection of Higdon and Johnston is damaging to our game.
In England they will look and say – who a guy who struggled for Crewe ?
Chances of promoting our game less and less.
What a joke.
Seville67
THE RETURN OF RTC
————————————————
Rangers Tax-Case (@rangerstaxcase) says:
Monday, May 6, 2013 at 22:22
307 3 Rate This
Hello. I just thought that I would type up my own thoughts on some of the recent speculation surrounding Sevco. Much of this has been covered by the likes of Paul McConville already, but I thought that a less learned approach could help communicate a few points. (Apologies if this is all well understood, but this site is too successful for me to read all of the posts).
I have read a few hopeful posts to the effect that “Ibrox could be locked up while asset ownership is sorted out” This will not be the case. Sevco Scotland Ltd (aka The Rangers FC Ltd) owns Ibrox, Murray Park, and the Albion. The title to these assets is owned by Sevco Scotland Ltd according to the Land Registers. In terms of actual ownership that is no longer a matter for dispute under Scots Law. The owners of Sevco Scotland Ltd (RIFC plc) own oldco Rangers’ assets. That does not mean good news for Sevco FC supporters.
Craig Whyte’s legal path is to sue Sevco Scotland Ltd (either personally or as Sevco 5088 Ltd)- as well as any parties who may have helped in scheme. If he is successful in proving that he was defrauded by Green and Ahmad, he would not be able to simply reclaim the assets. If Whyte pursues a claim against Sevco Scotland Ltd- presumably for the value of his share of the assets and expected profits- his reward will be a financial judgement.
Let us assume that Whyte wins an award of £20m against Sevco Scotland Ltd. which would include his share of potential profit from the original deal. (It is worth repeating that this does not give Whyte any claim on Ibrox, at least not yet). As this sum could not be paid, Whyte would then go down a path with which Scottish football monitors have become quite familiar in recent years. He would initiate a Winding Up Order or try to have an administrator appointed. As the major creditor of Sevco Scotland Ltd, Whyte would likely have his choice of administrator- yet again.
The problem for Whyte is that the amount raised in a new administration process will not come close to matching how much he owes Ticketus. Therefore, this above board path is not one that Craig Whyte will want to take. It will be a raging certainty that Whyte’s goal all along in this process has been to secure a payment into an offshore bank long before a court judgement is delivered. Either he has asked for too much or Green and Ahmad did not think that Whyte would or could hurt them too badly. Someone has miscalculated here. Whyte still needs to demonstrate that he is, after all, a ‘poker player from the top drawer’ to extract a free and clear payment from this mess. Time will tell if he has a plan or whether he is just winging it.
On rumours that insolvency is imminent, I am not the loop on this. It seems unlikely to me that events could unfold in the timelines being discussed. (I think the Timternet is interpreting the underlying stories too literally). However, it does seem that the reincarnation of Rangers is doomed to die before too long. The combination of legal threats (Whyte and then the inevitable RIFC shareholder suits) plus cash burn rate make survival very unlikely. Under the misapprehension that Sevco FC would start life in the SPL, Charles Green’s club started life with a cost structure that appears to ensure that it will go through whatever sum was raised in the IPO long before arriving in the top tier of Scottish football. Short of a miracle investment from the outside or drastic cost-cutting on a scale that would endanger inevitable promotion, a date with an administrator awaits. When we add the in-fighting between the spiv and ‘Rangers-men’ factions, you would not bet much on the new club’s survival. How long does it have? I do not know the exact cash burn rate today and I do not know how much cash Sevco FC really has. Therefore, I will not put a date on their demise, but bar the intervention of an oil rich Emir, they look done for within the next year or two at the very best.
Of course, events could move much more quickly. In the coming weeks news from the internal investigation will emerge. I have read with interest assorted theories that say that the ‘Rangers-men’ are likely to try to use this information to wrest control of the club away from the spivs. This will likely mean that they have to crash the RIFC/Sevco Scotland Ltd vehicle into a wall and rely upon the SFA to transplant the soul of the club into another newco. The SFA do have the power to render all of the Sevcos worthless by withdrawing their membership and license. Effectively handing a new Rangers membership to the ‘Rangers-men’ would effectively rid Scottish football of Green and Whyte in one fell swoop. The ‘Rangers-men’ have an old pal at the head of that organisation. We should not be too surprised at how far they will be willing to go to gain control. This theory has one major problem and that is where to play. Ibrox could not be guaranteed to be available for rent immediately, but I am sure that the idea is being considered.
If the notion of the ‘Rangers-men’ killing both Sevcos seems far-fetched, I ask- why did they ask for the internal investigation? Assuming that the Malcolm Murray/Walter Smith sect on the RIFC board have no interest in a cover-up, what else can they do with a report that if leaked could put their club’s SFA membership and license in question? If the Craig Whyte connection is proven and the prospect of a Whyte lawsuit given credence, they will be able to paint a picture through their many media friends of the need to return the soul of Rangers to fit and proper ownership. They might even have a good point if it was not for the fact that so many of these ‘Rangers-men’ presided over the collapse of what should always have been Scotland’s richest club.
(Apologies in advance for typos and grammar errors- I don’t have editing rights on here).
Zbyszek
Wszystkiego najlepszego z okazji urodzin
Zbyszek, Wszystkiego najlepszego dla mojego polskiego przyjaciela CQN.
BT, missed your reply last night, good to hear Adam and Skoosh look ready for the final, a couple of games to get up to speed before that, and hopefully get the team playing better.
Morning all. Glorious day here at the moment.
Will this be a glorious newsday?
Sheik Yerbouti – at last something worth reading – thanks for posting that.
…short week.
Magic.
HH
Morning CQNers,
Grateful for any tips on a short 3-4 day visit to Barcalona at the end of May with the family, 4 & 5 year olds, looking for hotel / appartments close enough to the beach but also close to other parts of the city worth visiting. never been before.
Thanks BBhoy
A Stor Mo Chroi
08:21 on 7 May, 2013
Generous round of applause for Dinamo from the Celtic support.
BT Sport now showing on the Sky platform.
Channels 445 + 447.
Vmhan/kit
Im meeting up with Sannabhoy on sat if its ok will that deal with my 125
Whatever is easiest for yous
Morning fholks
I would just like to say – During the aftermath of the Manchester riots involving the huns in 2008, the top police woman – Justine Curran said that – she wouldn’t rest until the ‘thugs’ who had attacked and injured many of the officers under her charge – almost kicking 2 of them fatally – would be brought to justice by serving the guilty fans with the full force of the law.
Then…hey-presto….Justine Curran is transferred to the Tayside region in the north of Scotland ?!?!?
So – when the craft / klan / forces of darkness etc…can move the pawns to suit…well we really are hoping for a miracle that the huns will be on the receiving of true justice.
I used to get slated on here when I would say….Scotland IS the huns – the huns ARE Scotland.
The best way to deal with the huns – the medicine that they can’t stand – watching a winning Celtic team parading a trophy bedecked in green n white ribbons in front of an ecstatic Celtic support. Does it get any better than that ? Not for me.
Mr Stein spelled oot the formula all those years ago – “Put the ball in the net more than them.” Simple as that.
I know it would be on the scale of – Timdom having a collective wet-dream if the huns were reduced to dust.
But – I’ve said to Paul67 on two occasions that to cut a long story short….all of this mess can be described as Celtic FC v’s the Freemason Handshake.
I asked Paul67 – who would win ?
Paul67 answered – “The good guys will win.”
The two occasions that I refer to – FTT – LNS.
Hail Hail
BBhoy
Hotel Arts – superb facilities right by the the beach, near Las Ramblas.
Pricey but staff, facilities and food all excellent.
HH
KEV J
Aye,Kev-the good guys WILL win.
They are suffering a death by a thousand cuts. They have no idea where the next blow will come from,as there are skeletons in every cupboard.
Just hold tight-they might be holding the news back till the 12th of July!
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
09:13 on 7 May, 2013
___________________________________________
Go – on tell me ye wurny sitting there waiting for me to appear ? :)
HH
Zbyszek
A very happy birthday Mr Z, I have enjoyed your heartfelt and insightful posts over the years I have been on CQN, have a peaceful,happy day..
KEV J
Not really-waiting for the bus to town.
Don’t forget,the FTT is currently being appealed.
Happy birthday, Zbyszek.
It is 53 years ago today that I made my First Communion. How can I remember that but can’t remember what I did last Friday?
Seville67,
Picture the scene:
Seville67 sits down to review past winners of the Scottish PFA Player of the Year and finds that 13 of the past 17 winners came from one team.
Only in Scotland. They all hate us, so they do.
The Moon Bhoys
08:46 on
7 May, 2013
Sheik Yerbouti – at last something worth reading – thanks for posting that.
——————————————————-
THE RETURN OF RTC
COULD BE AN INTERESTING FEW DAYS AHEAD
HH
Bbhoy
Keep your eyes peeled on cqn for whitedoghunch. He is our resident expert on Barcelona. ..
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
09:19 on 7 May, 2013
KEV J
Not really-waiting for the bus to town.
Don’t forget,the FTT is currently being appealed.
______________________________________
Masons investigating – Masons.
Get real.
You know what – The huns have died – been liquidated etc….
and guess what – CP is half-empty !!!
Now – what happens if the huns are exterminated awe the gither – removing any possibility of a come back ? CP crowds ???? hmmm
Do you think for one minute that the bored are making a charitable gesture to the fans in the shape of the £100 reduction in SB’s – to mark the clubs 126th birthday ?
This will be the same bored who watched the GB decorate the stadium for the Barca game oot their own pockets btw – only to be thanked by the bored by, passing their details on to plod ?
Sorry to shine some reality onto a dreamy week :)
HH
126th = 125th
typo
sorry
Kev Jungle
I think it is fair to say they’ve received every bit of their traditional support since they have suffered their fate (and I don’t mean the peepel who turn up and paid to watch them) BUT the BTC is still in flux AND the traditional support they receive have not one but two loose cannons on their hands who they cannot handle – Green and Whyte.
Whyte especially appears to have them in a fluster and unable to get out of it.
We may not have seen them obliterated in their entirety but my word this is the gift that keeps on giving and will continue to do so for the foreseeable.
They were never going to merely let it die and walk away – they cannot accept defeat to Celtic and Neil Lennon so the inventions of world records attendances and loving their journey to the top came out and in Green they had a guy who learned promptly how to push their buttons and like the fools they are they all bought into it (even their so called intellectuals did).
Now they have a rotten manager, a rotten team in the third league of Scottish football playing against Milkmen and thinking they are great but really its just putting a brave face on it.
That’s before you get to the mess off the park which is going to hamstring them for years if they survive this latest crisis.
If that is your idea of winning I’d hate to see your idea of losing.
Even in our darkest hours in the 90’s it didn’t sink so low for us. We had a real saviour who came in, told us the plan and with our support fixed it and put us on the road where within a decade of his arrival we contested a European Final.
We won, they lost and it’s only going to get more interesting from here on.
Get your popcorn ready, this is better than the movies.
KevJungle – “Walk-On” in the Jungle = Bliss
09:05 on
7 May, 2013
———————
KEV WE WON
THEY ARE A BAD PARODY OF THEMSELVES
I GET A BETTER LAUGH THESE DAYS
HH
macjay1 for Neil Lennon:
Was that snow behind the goal?
I’m going to open your envelope and pass your donation for Kano125 to Vhman. He’ll be collecting in the UK along with MWD and to the best of my knowledge all monies raised will go to Celtic on the first game of the new season.
I know there were a few who publicly pledged to support the Kano125 collection. If you are still of a mind to, to support a man who breathes Celtic but cannot make his devotion to Celtic material, then please contact Vhman, MWD, or me.
There will be no list of those who donated, the money will just be collected in Kano’s name and passed to Celtic and the total amount recorded.
It does not matter if you are able to donate 125 pence, or $12.50. or $125 dollars, it doesn’t matter if you don’t donate at all. All that matters is that you remember Martin and you remember the ethos of our club and our family and if you are able to do anything, anything, even a wee prayer for those less fortunate, then you have done more than the one that has done nothing.
I remember the day nutter Vhman ran barefoot to support Kano, I remember every single person that got off his arse to make it possible for a man who could not look after himself to be taken out of the system and returned to his family so they could happily take on the burden of looking after him.
I remember why I support Celtic and it is most certainly not for glory. Mary’s meals means so much more than a League Cup… doesn’t it?
Good Morning,
I posted yesterday about the forthcoming book on Willie Wallace and it will be available in the next couple of weeks.
However, in anticipation of the book coming out, I wonder how many people have stopped to consider how strong Scotland was as a force in European Football in the sixties?
Also– would Dukla have beaten Inter Milan had they managed to get to Lisbon instead of us? How good a side were they?
Over on the Scottish Football Monitor site– RTC made a surprise appearance last night and threw in some pearls of wisdom.
Below I have copied some thoughts of my own which may explain why many people in Scottish Football may not be prepared to do a great deal of business with the current Ibrox administration– and why some former players will have more than a passing interest in what gives between the SFA and a board of Directors which includes their former manager.
BRTH
—————————————————————————————————————-
Good Morning one and all.
A couple of points.
Re the UTT Tribunal— whilst I note all that is said for the potential sting in the tail for the potential or the intended beneficiaries of the MIH EBT’s, the article produced only looks at this possibility from one angle.
I believe that HMRC will attempt to attack the very same issue via another route which will in no way prejudice their ability to follow the route referred to as a secondary measure.
The FTT ruled — by way of majority— on the basis that the trusts set up and the loans granted by those trusts were to be treated as real, legal and viable entities and were not shams– in other words they were not fake legal entities and transactions designed to hide and mask the true nature of the fiscal transactions. At the FTT hearing HMRC specifically asked that the trusts and loans were NOT treated as shams.
As such, the majority decided that if these were bona fides loans — then loans did not attract tax and PAYE.
So far– so good.
However, what does not seem to have been sufficiently stressed in the HMRC argument and/or picked up at FTT level, is the argument that whatever these trusts and loans were ( legal and real or not ) they were only funded by Rangers PLC as a result of players and others entering into a contract of employment.
No trusts were ever set up substantially after any contract of employment ( bar perhaps one or two which remain a mystery ) and it is quite clear that the loans and payments are inextricably linked to players signing contracts and supposedly non existent side letters.
What is to be stressed by HMRC is that whether the loans were real or not, the moment that Rangers PLC paid any money to any Jersey based entity in connection with such contracts of employment, those payments attracted tax and NIC . It does not matter if the Jersey trusts then used the money to make loans or use the money down the bookies or buy provisions from Tesco– the transactions of the trust are irrelevant except in so far as they provide further evidence of the fact that the initial payment out of the Rangers PLC bank account should attract tax because in each and every case a Rangers PLC employee benefited in some way or other– directly or indirectly.
This argument is further enhanced and made all the more attractive to HMRC by the existence and the detail of the side letters– many of which clearly state that in the event of Tax and NIC being due as a result of these payments, the players concerned will be INDEMNIFIED by Rangers PLC.
The very use of the words concerned place all the players in a difficult position, because an indemnity does not mean that no money is due or that someone has escaped any liability arising, it merely means that there is an agreement between two parties that one of them will pay a debt ( should it arise ) on behalf of the other.
Accordingly, if the UTT rules in favour of HMRC, the tax will be due and the beneficiaries will be faced with a bill. The Indemnity from Rangers PLC is now worthless as the company is in liquidation– so there is no chance of the bills being paid from that source.
It is here, then, that the revenue will turn to the players– who have signed documentation which states that tax might well be due, that they knew tax might be due, goes on to imply that they (the players) are due to pay said tax, but then goes on to say that Rangers will pay the tax for them and on their behalf and so indemnifying them.
Of course, that will then throw up an interesting debate between former players and the SFA/PFA and so on as to whether or not “The Club” is the same legal entity or not.
If the argument persists that in football terms Rangers now are the same club as always, then some will undoubtedly argue that there is an obligation to make good the obligation to indemnify the players as they played for the club “registered” with the SFA and the SPL.
As we know, Mr Bryson of the SFA has stated that those registrations were legal and above board until revoked by the SFA– and he has stated that for some reason they have not been revoked.
You will also recall that the 5 way agreement supposedly binds the current administration at Ibrox to paying the “footballing debts”! Can there be a more obvious footballing debt than the wages and financial obligations due to the players who played for the club under valid and legal registrations?
All of this still leaves the argument about the 10 year expiry period re the trust loans and what happens at the end of that period in so far as the loans being repaid.
The revenue can and do bring all sorts of pressures to bear on the regulators of the States of Jersey, and the affairs of a few footballers are a drop in the ocean when compared to all of the money stored and hidden off shore by way of trusts and so on.
It would not surprise me at all if the administration- or maladministration — of these particular trusts is looked at from Jersey as a matter of self preservation by the Jersey regulators.
On a separate point, it is now almost two years since I engaged in a long personal conversation with Auldheid about the licensing position of all Scottish Clubs. At that point the internet forums and the newspapers were full of posts proclaiming that the football licence could simply be transferred though very few commentators had actually looked at the licensing provisions.
It was not widely realised at the time how significant any licence was and would become in this entire affair.
Any licensing authority can only grant a licence based on the submissions made to it– this is the same for Casino Licences, Public house licences, Entertainment licences, Street Trader Licences, Metal dealers, Taxi drivers– everyone.
A licensing body which ignores blatantly false submissions or representations, or which does not pursue the appropriate remedies when a falsehood or inaccuracy has been pointed out if no longer functional and can be seen to have acted unlawfully– remember it owes a duty to all licence holders and indeed applicants for a licence whether granted or not– and that duty is to act fairly and responsibly as well as impartially.
However, any discussion about the validity and veracity of representations is a slow process with argument and counter argument going back and forward– and that is without anyone like Craig Whyte constantly clouding the issue.
In the interim, what is key here, is that the entity whose licence– the very right to participate in the chosen sector—is under dispute or under question—- then that entity is virtually unbankable and cannot be considered a good contractual risk as its very existence i the sector concerned is uncertain.
I believe it is for that reason that any current Rangers entity will not be invited into any SPL 2 or whatever. The reason is that the breakaway SFL clubs nor the current SPL clubs cannot afford to take the risk of entering into new sponsorship deals or TV deals with a company who pay £x provided Rangers and Celtic are in the mix– but a lower sum if Rangers are not there— because all those other clubs have no idea what will come out of Ibrox next?
The current Rangers position makes for huge business uncertainty and the rest of Scottish Football wants absolute guaranteed money in the bank certainty– they do not want any surprises coming to bite them in the bum and interfering with budgets in a negative fashion going forward.
For that reason, beyond all others, Scottish Football will walk on without Rangers in the very top tier or at the helm of contractual negotiations. The management of Rangers Football Club– in whatever guise– has ensured that no one can afford to do business with them in many respects.
It is essential for The Rangers Club to clean up their legal and financial situation before anyone else can consider entering into any joint ventures that would involve the club– as right now there is just far too much uncertainty surrounding everything at Ibrox.
And the really big fear may still be the UTT because if it rules in favour of HMRC ( as it may well do– though that is not guaranteed ) then the possibility exists that the liability for tax may still exist if there is any chance of the current Rangers set up remaining liable for ” Footballing debts”.
Fraser Wishart and his legal team may well have a very VERY big say in this in the months to come.
Snake Plissken
Sheik Yerbouti
With the greatest respect guys – nothing will convince me their gone until
ibrokes is reduced to a pile of dust / asbestos.
Now – the tricky thing is – who has the balls to do that ?
Until then – they will remain a danger, especially with the SNP in charge.
Remember the Shame Game ? Who got blamed for that again ?
What the huns did to and – ‘ walked away’ from in Manchester
tells me that there are powerful – Dark Lords looking oot for them.
Only saying – I hope I’m wrong but….
HH
Bankiebhoy1 & Maleys Bhoy, thanks for the info. HH
I read most posts most days on here and have done for a few years now and I have a wee Starry theory, some Celts are uncomfortable without the Blue Boogie man in their lives and no matter how much I enjoyed watching Celtic beating them I was concerned by my own thoughts and actions during games against them, in short I didn’t like the person I became watching those games.
If Scotland wants to become a modern progressive country as it seems to want to there is no place for a team which promotes hatred and no place for a game that indulges that hatred at all levels from the supporter in the grounds to the shadowy help monkeys who keep that said team afloat.
I for one have enjoyed this season without them and haven’t missed them as my support for Celtic is not based in any way on being triumphant against them, my support for Celtic is unconditional as I was brought up to understand that Celtic is the gift everything else after that is just a bonus.
The lid has been kept on the Ibrox affair because football is the least that this story has to do with, corruption by it’s very nature is designed to spread so that the many are involved and secrecy becomes the code that all must abide by to survive but this stain is not going away and by their own deviousness will they be tried.
No lie can live forever and the return of RTC makes me smile today, remembering my first silky Celtic scarf makes me smile today and that’s enough for me today.
Boards come and boards go, players come and players go but The Support never goes it’s the one constant in 125 years of unbroken history at Our Club and that’s why I love Celtic not for the glory but for the men, women and children I meet along the Celtic Way..