So much happened yesterday, I’ll be as brief as possible:
Newco Rangers sent their counsel to the Court of Session to protest Charles Green’s contract with the club, stating it should pay legal expenses, now crystallising ahead of his forthcoming criminal trial.
In opposing Green, James Wolffe QC raised various objections, but as is often the case when people speak on behalf of Newco, included an arbitrary insistence that Newco operated the same club as the now liquidated Rangers.
Green’s QC, Jonathan Brown, put his pit boots on before stating his client’s case, but tantalisingly, before lunch informed the court that he would return to the same club/new club debate later. And didn’t he. Brown explained that Sevco Scotland purchased the assets of Rangers, not the club itself, with poetic prose adding:
“The team are paid by Sevco, plat at a ground owned by Secvo, are trained by a manager who is employed by Sevco and fans buy tickets from Sevco. That is the business that is being carried on.”
Adding that Rangers were “a collection of assets”, “What if the players were sold to one person and Ibrox to antoher, where is the ‘club’ then?”
I had to look away from court reporter, James Dolman’s Twitter feed at this point. It was like watching an acquaintance being humiliated. Not something you want to see.
Lord Doherty will determine if Newco should pay Green’s costs in due course, but this will be soon, as Jonathan Brown noted, “the rainy day has arrived”.
This next bit is really important:
Soon after court ended, Dave King was out with a rambling statement on the Newco website. If it was designed to play to the galleries, it hit the spot. If it was designed to influence what happens to his club, or how others will regard his input, it was surely an horrendous mistake.
It was a hard day to be chairman of Rangers International FC PLC. The court hearing only happened because the club objected to its contract with Green, so the unedifying episode could easily have been avoided. Despite this, sometimes you have to shut your mouth.
Sure, some Newco fans love a bit of grandstanding, but you know what yesterday’s statement will achieve. If the objective of the statement was to convince other Scottish clubs not to consider disciplinary action against Sir David Murray, or oldco Rangers, for their actions, it was an almighty miscalculation.
Threats seldom work. This one is unlikely to curry favour: “If the history of our Club comes under attack we will deal with it in the strongest manner possible and will hold to account those persons who have acted against their fiduciary responsibilities to their own clubs and to Scottish football.”
In short:
Don’t threaten clubs you are trying to influence.
Don’t grandstand to your own fans if you are trying to influence other clubs.
Keep a poker face. Keep your mouth shut, even if it means taking grief from your fans for the lack of public reaction.
King’s statement also addressed the sporting advantage issue from what we now know was an unlawfully operated tax scheme. While the EBT scheme saved tens of millions of pounds, and King earlier intimated this did provide a sporting advantage, yesterday he insisted the advantage was financial, that the shareholders were “committed to providing funding to the club” and would have done so, if required.
Here’s the thing, in 2012 another King statement revealed, “I have made a claim of £20m on the basis of non-disclosure by the then chairman, David Murray, of Rangers true financial position as far back as 2000.”
That commitment to further shareholder funding seems predicated on some controversial information. According to King, of course. Controversial enough to launch a £20m claim, but not to inhibit investment.
For the war-chest hunters among you, if you read this article covering King’s 2012 statement, you’ll find a strong clue.
One other quick but important point:
Some media are attempting to portray questions of sporting advantage as Rangers being punished for spending money they could afford, a travesty, as so many other clubs have done likewise.
This must surely be a deliberate attempt to misunderstand the issue and manipulate the debate.
No one suggests Rangers should be punished for spending money they could not afford. The questions are straightforward:
Did Rangers break tax law, break SFA rules and break SPL rules, when contracting football players?
Did they disclose matters openly with authorities (in other words, inadvertently make mistakes), or did they conspire to subvert the rules by hiding incriminating information?
Spending like the Borgias? Time to move on. Conspiracy to subvert the rules? We have a problem.
Don’t be distracted by potential ramifications to these questions, they are irrelevant for now. We should consider no more than did they break all of the above rules, should any the rule breaking be interpreted as an oversight, or does evidence of conspiracy to subvert the rules exist?
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Really looking forward to tonight’s game at the Aviva. Missed the Germany match as I was feeling under the weather. I’m really up for the game, let’s just hope the Irish team is too.
COYBIG.
There goes the bell, back to class;-)
67Heaven .. CHALLENGING THE LIE ..I am wee Oscar…… Ipox belongs to the creditors
If that happens watch it being painted as “for the good of the club, too much unnecessary and distracting news coverage, nothing to do with football blah, blah”.
Kevinbhoy,
Thanks for the babble, no sure how I feel with people agreeing with me, very strange sensation :) I do prefer thought provoking discussions where I learn something, especially when I’m forced to reassess my views because I am given better information/sources than those I have used/referred to. Hail Hail.
Bawsman,
First of I consider myself a Christian however some of the most beautiful funerals I have been to were humanist, the idea that the celebration of the life and the appreciation of being able to share in that life is beautiful.
I was a like you a bit shocked/annoyed that religion was dragged up as some sort of datum for all to compare with but I don’t think it was meant as bluntly as it was put, I hope it was meant to offer the opinion that for people who hold religious beliefs death is not the end and that no matter how cruel life is, there is the hope and belief that something better awaits for those who suffer and have suffered.
One thing I don’t claim to know is why God allows so much suffering and pain in the world or why some even consider this as God testing us but I can tell you that because I believe in God I must also believe in the devil and that is who I blame for the suffering of good people.
RWE sincere condolences on your loss
KEVJUNGLE on 16th November 2015 9:46 am
You, your wife and family are very much in our thoughts.
Take Care
NOWA
We don’t want Justice & fairness we are just haters according to Roger Mitchell
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell?trk=hp-feed-article-title-comment
Thanks for the caring messages.
I show everyone to Mrs RWE and they all help.
NOWA
weeminger
Absolutely …..same old shoite from the pathetic SMSM cretins ……. I’m particularly anxious to get rid of Ming, since he was brought up in Castlemilk, and is getting the place I was brought up in a bad name …..
Morning CQN
Easy For Me To Say @10:28 AM
You can write to the Forfeiture Committee at Westminster and raise concerns at Murray’s suitability for retaining his title
Honours and Appointments Secretariat
Ground Floor
Admiralty Arch
London
SW1A 2WH
There’s more than Rangers titles that need stripping here.
RWE condolences to you and your family.
HH
More money troubles for King
moo@moo
Another court case for Dave King coming up. Players from last year going to Industrial tribunal for unpaid holiday pay
Bawsman chapeau doffed sir to a very moving post to your wife who you obviously loved very much. RWE wishing you light at this dark time to you both I dedicate the song “Days” by the Kinks. KTF Hail Hail Hebcelt
FRITZSONG on 15TH NOVEMBER 2015 8:11 PM
The ‘no competitive advantage’ defence is absurd. Why would they bother to go through the whole dishonest rigmarole if they weren’t going to get players better than they could have if they’d played by the rules. The SFA reaction is so typically Scottish – victimise the victims.
Werev THEY top be compelled to publish the full cost of establishing and administering ebts for over a decade it would blow the no competitive advantage wheeze right out of the water.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/spending-like-the-borgias-time-to-move-on-conspiracy-to-subvert-the-rules-we-have-a-problem/comment-page-36/#comments
abdelslam has been arrested in Belgium
Afternoon Timland from a warm hun free mountain valley.
Abdelslam, a name plucked out of the air.
EASYFORMETOSAY 1028
Yes,there is a book or two in this,no doubt about it. But it will have to wait until Murray is not only discredited as a knowing tax-dodger,but is also accordingly stripped of his gong.
And denounced as Scotland’s biggest enforced liquidator.
Without that happening,he will sue. He has been Scotland’s answer to Maxwell in that regard for long and weary.
With those events undermining his position he won’t have a leg to stand on.
TBH,he has sailed so close to the wind throughout his entire business career,with his eggs pretty much in the one basket of brotherhood,that he should have seen it coming.
Visionary,my backside. A user and abuser of the backscratching levers of power.
He’ll be hung out to dry. And I hope it blows a gale for him.
During the Korean War in the 1950’s, captured US POW’s were subjected to anti-American slogans every day until they became fixed in their minds. They were then filmed repeating the same anti-American messages.
The footage was then broadcast so that the US public could see their troops slandering their own country. It was known as ‘brainwashing’.
And today, in a bid to cover up the Biggest scandal in British sporting history, we’re witnessing the very same ritual by former players who mostly work in media, who are frightened of either future work, or the backlash from a support who are quite adept at intimidation.
There is a very clear narrative from all the usual suspects, keep on message or else.
As expected, some have gone too far in their bid to bully the ordinary football fan into submission. In particular, the bigot that is Derek Johnstone telling us to get back under the rock we crawled out of last week. Those words in any other environment would have brought either some form of disciplinary action or a sacking. Not on Radio Clyde though.
Then Richard Gough’s fairytale about Henrik having an EBT. His desperation is beyond belief. If I was Richard Gough, I’d been keeping my head down, his ‘off field activities’ are not supposed to be what you’d call, normal.
However, all this posturing will only do one thing. Make the people who matter, us the fans, stronger in our resolve to take our game back from the cheats who have sullied our national sport.
No amount of brainwashing or bullying will make a difference. All we want is justice.
My post above was from Celtic Fanzone.
RWE
So sorry to read of your terrible news.
I will remember you and your good lady in my prayers.
NOWA
RWE –
Thoughts and prayers for you and the family.
Kevj and Bawsman
Lovely posts about lovely people.
CQN at it’s best.
Thanks for sharing and God bless you both.
King has the perfect excuse to walk away now.
“Naebdy loves me, everybody hates me”
Plus he’s skint.
Who’se next?
Before heading out, thought I’d post this song that was written 12 years ago and is sadly more poignant than ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICL-4Onk0PA
Please tell me the reason
Behind the colours that you fly
Love just one nation
And the whole world we divide
You say you’re ‘sorry’
‘There is no other choice’
But God bless the people them
Who cannot raise their voice
We can chase down all our enemies
Bring them to their knees
We can bomb the world to pieces
But we can’t bomb it into peace
Whoa we may even find a solution
To hunger and disease
We can bomb the world to pieces
But we can’t bomb it into peace
Violence brings one thing
More and more of the same
Military madness
The smell of flesh and burning pain
So I sing out to the masses
Stand up if you’re still sane!
To all of us gone crazy
I sing this one refrain
We can chase down all our enemies
Bring them to their knees
We can bomb the world to pieces
But we can’t bomb it into peace
Whoa we may even find a solution
To hunger and disease
We can bomb the world to pieces
But we can’t bomb it into peace
And I sing power to the peaceful
Love to the peaceful y’all
I sing power to the peaceful
Love to the peaceful y’all
We may even find a solution
To hunger and disease
We can bomb the world to pieces
But we can’t bomb it into peace
Say we can chase down all our enemies
We can even bring them to their knees
We can bomb the world into pieces
But we can’t bomb it into peace
And I sing power to the peaceful
Love to the peaceful y’all
And I sing power to the peaceful
Love to the peaceful y’all
HH
Arrest Tony Blair for War Crimes CSC
Time to move on say the players.
What, these players?
Rangers players ‘to be chased for tax’
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article4606382.ece
Paris Gourtsoyannis
Published at 12:01AM, November 6 2015
Former Rangers players and managers are likely to be pursued for millions in unpaid tax after a landmark legal ruling in the “big tax case” yesterday, experts have claimed.
Judges at the Court of Session granted an appeal by Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs (HMRC) that money put into Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) for the club’s stars counted as remuneration, and should have been taxed.
BAWSMAN. The loss of your wife is a tragedy for you and I can fully understand your pain and confusion at why God allows these things to happen to good people.I believe that Adam and Eve made a choice in the Garden of Eden and that brought Satan into the lives of us humans and along with it all kinds of suffering.I am glad that you found comfort from the humanists at a time of great sorrow there are many good people in the World. I personally find the Bible a great comfort but of course there are lots of things in the Bible that I do not understand but I am not called to understand everything.I am called to believe everything. H.H..
MURDOCHAULDANDHAY & WEE OSCAR on 16TH NOVEMBER 2015 11:07 AM
We don’t want Justice & fairness we are just haters according to Roger Mitchell
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hate-convenient-help-forget-how-uncompetitive-you-really-mitchell?trk=hp-feed-article-title-comment
Very really do I feel the need to respond to an article in the press, blog etc, but this article by Mitchell is just complete nonsense. Anyway, here’s my response if it is any interest:
I’m afraid that you miss the point completely. Cheating your fellow competitors and the general public cannot be swept under the carpet. Basically you are saying that corruption is ok whilst accusing others of what you, yourself are doing, not letting “intellectual reason to be heard”. Your arguments are lazy, weak and go very much against the “intellectual reason” that you seem to call for and are at best “incredibly parochial”. 1. Whilst it is clear that Scottish football is going through a period of great change economically and competitively this is due to years of mismanagement inspired by David Murray’s reckless spending and protected by the likes of you in the SPL and SFA. The abuse of Scottish football by those who sought an unfair financial and competitive advantage must be addressed for the good of the game. To not do so will destroy it for good. Many other teams, Celtic included, have got their house in order and don’t define themselves by what their rivals do (although that dynamic will always remain and is part of the enjoyment in football). They have moved on after the carnage created by Rangers, the SFA and SPL (2 bodies which were supposed to be overseeing the game). 2. A ridiculous statement. If someone doesn’t pay tax then they have a competitive advantage. Simple. It’s the same in all walks of life. Those that don’t pay tax cheat the system, the general population and must be brought to justice. In Scottish football it is worse due the fact that Rangers signed up to a set of rules to ensure fair play but went behind everyone’s back to break them. To argue that there was no sporting advantage is the argument of an intellectual pygmy or someone who likes pulling the wool over his own eyes. 3.Yes, Scottish football needs to heal itself and work together but that can only be achieved after justice is done and seen to be done. Brushing this mess under the carpet is not an option. 4. Scottish football needs Rangers? Rangers unfortunately died due to gross financial mismanagement over a number of years. There is now a new club which many Rangers fans have decided is a continuation of Rangers. Fair enough, they want a team in blue playing out of Ibrox. A responsible “Rangers”, one that doesn’t believe it has a right to do as it pleases, one without the extreme bigotry of some of their fans could be a benefit to Scottish football. Unfortunately we have a basket case in Sevco which has learnt no lessons from the past and is just another shoddy tale in the “Rangers” saga. Unless they learn to live within their means, dump the WATP attitude and the spivs and criminals, then they cannot be seen as a benefit to Scottish football. 5. Who cares if Rangers or Juventus fans will never accept losing titles they cheated to gain? It is totally irrelevant. 6. Scotland is incredibly parochial, without a doubt. But the fact that no one outside Scotland has taken an interest in the corruption of our game is, again, irrelevant. It is up to us to insure our game is free from corruption, something the SPL and SFA have failed to do (you bear your responsibility for this mess as well). This parochial mindset has allowed this insidious corruption to affect our sports, institutions, banks etc. Ignoring it is not the way to deal with it. So really, after reading your mental gymnastics (probably caused by your reduced intellectual capacity for analysis), I would conclude that it is probably best that you stay by the shores of lake Como where you can wander around mumbling nonsense without disturbing the locals but please don’t think that you have some kind of intellectual and moral superiority when addressing Scottish football issues. You have done enough damage already as have your cheerleader friends in the media.
really = rarely
RWE,
Just kinda catching up. Condolences to all who are close to you.
Murdoch Auld & Hay.
No wonder the game is in the state it is when we had people like Mitchell at the helm. What a disgrace he is, absolutely no moral fibre and complete lack of integrity.
With the news that Douglas Park is back on board I feel my assertions from last week that King had done a bunk might actually be true. (they might not #bethedger)
DR RAMESH
Great reply to that numbskull Roger Mitchell….he wants to forget about the cheating, no chance.
You battered him with sense.
I did notice however, the stupidity of Ra Berrs in the comments…Richard Wilshun being one.
They are not the brightest are they.
HH
.
A guy sits at a bar in a skyscraper restaurant high above the city. He slams a shot of tequila, goes over to the window and jumps out.
The guy sitting next to him can’t believe what he just saw. He’s more surprised when, 10 minutes later, the same guy walks back into the bar and sits down next to him.
The astonished onlooker asks, “How did you do that? I just saw you jump out the window, and we’re hundreds of feet above the ground!”
The jumper responds by slurring, “Well, I don’t get it either. I slam a shot of tequila, and when I jump out the window, the tequila makes me slow down right before I hit the ground. Watch.” He takes a shot, goes to the window and jumps out.
The other guy runs to the window and watches as the guy falls to just above the sidewalk, slows down and lands softly on his feet. A few minutes later, the jumper walks back into the bar.
The other guy has to try it, too, so he orders a shot of tequila. He slams it and jumps out the window. As he reaches the bottom, he doesn’t slow down at all. SPLAT!
The first guy orders another shot of tequila. The bartender shakes his head. “You’re really an a**hole when you’re drunk, Superman.”
Summa
Infrequent poster – surely one point which needs to be stressed in all of this is one of the main purposes of “punishment” which is to act as a deterrent to future potential transgressors. If no titles are stripped then any other team who might be successful in concealing any financial chicanery in the future could point to the precedent many with connections to Rangers are proposing here. Very unhealthy….
The Green Man,
yes, it’s true that in general “Rangers” fans seem to lack intelligence and reason. I think this is partially due to the number of morons shouting within their own camp. Reason is drowned out and media propaganda has taken it’s toll also. I have known many bluenoses who are fine people, intelligent and morally sound. Where is their voice (John James excepted)? I feel many of the brighter ones did walking away in 2012.
new article posted.
Does anybody on here really believe justice will be done with rightful stripping of titles of the oldco better get ready for disappointment it’s no going to happen, why? Because everyone at that shithouse of a national stadium has something on everyone else.
Unless someone breaks ranks you can forget it.
I pray I’m wrong but ——!
Reading back, to all those who are in mourning at the loss of a loved one, you are my thoughts.
God bless.
Sean.
So former players of the former Rangers get big tax bills. But they have letters telling them they are not liable. So what do they do? The former club isn’t in the position to cough the cash up.
And what is the legal position here? What is the liability of the employee for tax that the employer didn’t collect?
There could be quite a few unhappy former players around. Wonder if anyone will look for a comment?
RWE my thoughts are with you &your family at this sad time on the passing of your sister in law ,prayers shall be said ynwa
Canamalar
Have u still got that document u mentioned a few pages back about Israels plan to decstabilise them 3 countries ? Would like read of it.
Bamboo mentioned the oil in golan heights , I well believe that is in murdoch and rothchilds plan.. Greedy dirty men.