So much happened yesterday, I’ll be as brief as possible:
Newco Rangers sent their counsel to the Court of Session to protest Charles Green’s contract with the club, stating it should pay legal expenses, now crystallising ahead of his forthcoming criminal trial.
In opposing Green, James Wolffe QC raised various objections, but as is often the case when people speak on behalf of Newco, included an arbitrary insistence that Newco operated the same club as the now liquidated Rangers.
Green’s QC, Jonathan Brown, put his pit boots on before stating his client’s case, but tantalisingly, before lunch informed the court that he would return to the same club/new club debate later. And didn’t he. Brown explained that Sevco Scotland purchased the assets of Rangers, not the club itself, with poetic prose adding:
“The team are paid by Sevco, plat at a ground owned by Secvo, are trained by a manager who is employed by Sevco and fans buy tickets from Sevco. That is the business that is being carried on.”
Adding that Rangers were “a collection of assets”, “What if the players were sold to one person and Ibrox to antoher, where is the ‘club’ then?”
I had to look away from court reporter, James Dolman’s Twitter feed at this point. It was like watching an acquaintance being humiliated. Not something you want to see.
Lord Doherty will determine if Newco should pay Green’s costs in due course, but this will be soon, as Jonathan Brown noted, “the rainy day has arrived”.
This next bit is really important:
Soon after court ended, Dave King was out with a rambling statement on the Newco website. If it was designed to play to the galleries, it hit the spot. If it was designed to influence what happens to his club, or how others will regard his input, it was surely an horrendous mistake.
It was a hard day to be chairman of Rangers International FC PLC. The court hearing only happened because the club objected to its contract with Green, so the unedifying episode could easily have been avoided. Despite this, sometimes you have to shut your mouth.
Sure, some Newco fans love a bit of grandstanding, but you know what yesterday’s statement will achieve. If the objective of the statement was to convince other Scottish clubs not to consider disciplinary action against Sir David Murray, or oldco Rangers, for their actions, it was an almighty miscalculation.
Threats seldom work. This one is unlikely to curry favour: “If the history of our Club comes under attack we will deal with it in the strongest manner possible and will hold to account those persons who have acted against their fiduciary responsibilities to their own clubs and to Scottish football.”
In short:
Don’t threaten clubs you are trying to influence.
Don’t grandstand to your own fans if you are trying to influence other clubs.
Keep a poker face. Keep your mouth shut, even if it means taking grief from your fans for the lack of public reaction.
King’s statement also addressed the sporting advantage issue from what we now know was an unlawfully operated tax scheme. While the EBT scheme saved tens of millions of pounds, and King earlier intimated this did provide a sporting advantage, yesterday he insisted the advantage was financial, that the shareholders were “committed to providing funding to the club” and would have done so, if required.
Here’s the thing, in 2012 another King statement revealed, “I have made a claim of £20m on the basis of non-disclosure by the then chairman, David Murray, of Rangers true financial position as far back as 2000.”
That commitment to further shareholder funding seems predicated on some controversial information. According to King, of course. Controversial enough to launch a £20m claim, but not to inhibit investment.
For the war-chest hunters among you, if you read this article covering King’s 2012 statement, you’ll find a strong clue.
One other quick but important point:
Some media are attempting to portray questions of sporting advantage as Rangers being punished for spending money they could afford, a travesty, as so many other clubs have done likewise.
This must surely be a deliberate attempt to misunderstand the issue and manipulate the debate.
No one suggests Rangers should be punished for spending money they could not afford. The questions are straightforward:
Did Rangers break tax law, break SFA rules and break SPL rules, when contracting football players?
Did they disclose matters openly with authorities (in other words, inadvertently make mistakes), or did they conspire to subvert the rules by hiding incriminating information?
Spending like the Borgias? Time to move on. Conspiracy to subvert the rules? We have a problem.
Don’t be distracted by potential ramifications to these questions, they are irrelevant for now. We should consider no more than did they break all of the above rules, should any the rule breaking be interpreted as an oversight, or does evidence of conspiracy to subvert the rules exist?
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1-0 Hungary a stoater.
And it’s a goodnight from Norway..
gerryfaethebrig
Delighted with the word spreading.
Thanks
NOWA
Tak a boo son!
The great Kocsis woulda been proud of that one. Nearly 30 years since they’ve been in the finals of a tournament, the old Magyars.
Them ’54, Netherlands ’74, Brazil’82. Best teams not to have won their World Cup, in my correct opinion.
The ‘no competitive advantage’ defence is absurd. Why would they bother to go through the whole dishonest rigmarole if they weren’t going to get players better than they could have if they’d played by the rules. The SFA reaction is so typically Scottish – victimise the victims.
Another thing, lest we go all high moral groundery – there are racist Celtic fans. Not many. But to imply there are none isn’t true.
I’d like to apologise for the decline in the usual high standards of English on the CQN Magazine Facebook page this evening.
This has been caused by us posting an Aberdeen fans’ forum view on the Rangers cheating scandal. This has attracted all sorts of ill-spellers to the page, who are attempting to sell the message that it’s now BORING.
Yes, BORING is the new OBSESSED.
The content from the Aberdeen supporter is from stand-free.com
Here it is:
The media are in overdrive this week trying to find any player willing to tow the party line that Rangers won a decade of trophies ‘on the park’ and £47m of tax free salaries were irrelevant to the outcome of those competitions.
The Lord Nimmo Smith commission into Rangers’ use of EBTs took place under the impression that the way they were used was legal. Crucially, Rangers were not given any sport-related sanctions as “no sporting advantage means the Commission did not consider any sport-related punishment”.
Another line of defence mooted by the media and indeed ‘Rangers FC’ itself is that the club has been ‘punished enough’. No sport-related sanctions were applied, Rangers haven’t been punished.
One of the problems is the idea that the Rangers in the Championship are the same club as the one that won the trophies; that they were ‘kicked out’ of the SPL and forcibly demoted to Division 3. Nobody peddling the same club mantra has ever explained how you transfer an SFA membership from one club to the same club; nor who Rangers voted on entering the SPL; nor how ‘Rangers’ received players on loan from Rangers Football Club in their first game against Brechin in July 2012.
Neil Doncaster once shoe-horned into an interview with the BBC that the LNS commission had cleared up the ‘new club/same club’ debate, that Rangers were ‘absolutely’ the same club. LNS in fact stated that the definition of a football club ‘at minimum comprises of the players contracts’, which begs the question how players were allowed to leave upon liquidation (which Charles Green lost in court) and where the July 2012 loanees came from.
Today (12/11/15), Charles Green’s lawyer himself has argued in court that Charles Green did not buy Rangers ‘the club’, but the business assets, with which he formed a new club, and pointed towards how the players were allowed to leave.
LNS ended up fining the oldco Rangers £250,000 for failing to correctly register players. This in itself was astonishing enough. It doesn’t matter if there was ‘sporting advantage’. Many teams in Scotland have been ejected from cup competitions over the years for fielding a single ineligible player, often innocently. Rangers knowingly and for good reason fielded ineligible teams in every game they played for a decade. Every game should have been forfeited 0-3 on this basis alone. As a side note, newco Rangers accepted to take on the £250,000 fine in the deal to jump to the front of the queue for entry into Division 3, ahead of the long established clubs who met the requirements. They still haven’t paid the fine – the only supposed ‘punishment’ handed out to newco Rangers.
And so, even if we look past ineligible players playing in every game for a decade, the next argument put forward is that there was no ‘sporting advantage’, it was 11 vs 11 and the players won it etc etc etc.
Did the extra money for wages mean Rangers could sign and pay a better standard of player? Yes. Did this give them sporting advantage? Of course it did.
Next: Rangers ‘would have won it anyway’ as they could have afforded those players in those high turnover years. What previous instance in sport has an athlete or team who cheated not been punished because they ‘might have won anyway’? To Rangers fans this is a legitimate argument. Ben Johnson needn’t have been punished as he might have won anyway. Lance Armstrong needn’t have been punished as he might have won anyway.
There is also an inconsistency in the idea that a club that then went bust could have afforded another £30m to pay those players the required wages.
Can we just remind ourselves that the club that was Rangers FC has not been punished at all for a decade of tax evasion; that the commission into their use of EBTs was done so without information withheld by both Rangers and the SFA and specifically Campbell Ogilvie, SFA president, who set up the first Discounted Options Scheme; and that LNS’s ruling and ‘punishments’ were based entirely on no sporting advantage.
Lord Drummond Young said in his ruling in the Court of Session that there was sporting advantage.
There must be a new commission. There is no point in sport if Rangers are not stripped of every trophy they won through tax evasion and ineligible teams. The idea that they were won ‘fairly on the park’ is something only an idiot could genuinely believe.
All the players in the world who lost titles and cup finals to Rangers can be dragged out by the Glasgow press to say that they lost on the park and they don’t want anything done about it. They wouldn’t have been playing against those players. They were paid to play in those games. They didn’t spend 10 years paying into the sham that was professional football in Scotland, travelling up and down the country watching their team play against a club that had an astronomical sporting advantage over 10 of the other 11 teams. Many clubs ran into serious financial difficulties trying to legitimately keep up and some nearly went out of existence. Clubs were cheated out of prize money and opportunities and fans robbed of once in a lifetime experiences. ‘Move on for the greater good of the game’, says the Rangers International Football Club statement. You couldn’t make it up.
One of the 6 club members on the SPFL board is Duncan Fraser, CEO of Aberdeen. Aberdeen fans must let the club and Duncan Fraser know that he must do the right thing and push for a new commission.
Rangers cheated. They evaded tax. They haven’t been punished. The titles must go.
DAN, 7:56
QUONNO, 7:36
I’m hoping that after the Dec 2nd deadline passes we can find out just who those (16?) names were on Daly’s list that he couldn’t tell us about at the time, as well as why the likes of Souness were getting EBTs years after they had left.
So many unanswered questions
O.G.RAFFERTY
Indeed, another part of the massive web of deception, lies and cheating, like you buddy eagerly awaiting the deadline of 2nd December, guess that’s when things will really ramp up. Dearly hoping after that date Celtic FC come out with all guns blazing.
HH Dan
Winning Captains
Improperly Registered
Easy peasy = guilty !
What a day for us..
Mrs RWE’s wee sister who passed away during the night from PSP.
Progressive Supra Nuclear Palsy is a neuro-degenerative illness with no known cause or cure.
Where have we heard that before.
Look after each other.
NOWA
Norvege wake up finally and unlucky with header off the post.
Hungary don’t look like a team you should give up against.
RWE
In my prayers, you have taught me
NOWA
Look after Mrs RWE
RWE
Thoughts with you and yours
NOWA
RWE
Please pass on my best wishes to P. This has been a truly horrendous year for you all.
Doncasters BBC interview
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30646033#
HH
Brilliant WC
‘Ben Johnson needn’t have been punished as he might have won anyway. Lance Armstrong needn’t have been punished as he might have won anyway.’
RWE
Sad news. God bless you and all your family.
RWE
You and your family are being sorely tested. Seek your strength where you can find it.
Thoughts and prayers are with you
Bobby Murdoch, you mentioned a few weeks ago about Michael Conroy and his elbow connecting with Alex Miller. Moravcik 67’s ten minute celtic video,see weet weet weet’s post at 7 52. At about two minutes twenty seconds into the video it shows the above incident but not Miller’s reaction to it. It also has Mick Mccarthy hooking Crawford Baptie
“Don’t shoot, Pardner! OK, you caught me with these aces up my sleeve, but I mighta got a winning hand anyway!”
What happened next?
RWE
thoughts and prayers with you and your family
stay strong
RWE: Thoughts with you and your family.
Dallas Dallas
I was in the Main Stand, and not only saw Big Mick hook Baptie, but heard it!
Norway with it all to do as the 2nd half starts.
A team full of Duracell Bunnies but, so far, no end product.
But you never know. Anyway, in a game where it’s shown on the screen as ‘HUN-NOR’ you can only really support the away team?
Was on f/b last night and one of my friends, not a mate though, was posting about the attacks in Paris and low and behold started going on about religion and then brought Celtic supporters into it. I’m thinking what the ****. He’s been undone from my f/b but el be having words with him when I next see him, total Erse, an arab by the way
Dallas
Met an old pal fae Knightswood last night. A good Tim I hadn’t seen in 20 odd year. He was in Cokey’s year at VD. Some of the tales he told me about the bold yin were amazing. He left by saying that Cokey was the most hated guy in that school. By both staff and pupils. :)
RWE
Tragic,prayers offered
HH
Lurked back and read Monaghans link to the boulder on the shoulder peeple.
My god, they really have no perception of honesty or reality.
Hopefully the titles will be stripped and dispensed in a bin where they belong….what a party that day will be.
I’ll not hold my breath, due to the Hun establishment that decides on the decision but I’ll keep a holiday up my sleeve just incase.:)
RWE terrible news for your family
God bless
RWE , my condolences on your family’s loss.
Magyars the width of the bar away from assuring a place in the Euro finals.
Beatbhoy, we were in the jungle that and we could tell that Mick had hit Baptie with a cracking punch.
I’m not surprised you could hear the thud from the punch. Mick didn’t even wait for the Red card, he walked straight towards the tunnel.
RWE
Devastating news for your family again
May she Rest in Peace
Thoughts and Prayers with all the family
thoughts and prayers rwe
When I first got the bottle to post on CQN I used to think would I ever post about the sadness a stranger has endured, not sure yet if I am corrc t or incorrect but RWE if one single comment makes things a bit easier it’s well worth it, and as for Kev J your good lady and her family are still in my prayers, sometimes it’s just words but for one moment if the person involved takes a crumb of comfort it’s well worth with
NOWA
Delaney’s. two tims at VD, who says miracles have stopped.
Cokey has went up even higher in my estimation.
BEATBHOY on 15TH NOVEMBER 2015 8:47 PM
Dallas Dallas
I was at game and in Monty in EK after the game.
Mr Baptie came in and my mate said what happened to you mate.
My Baptie with nice shinner just smiled at us all decked out in green
(no colours)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was in the Main Stand, and not only saw Big Mick hook Baptie, but heard it!
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/spending-like-the-borgias-time-to-move-on-conspiracy-to-subvert-the-rules-we-have-a-problem/comment-page-36/#comments
Talking of big Micks wallop on Baptie……the big eejit worked in Arnold Clark
on Hamilton rd no far from Paradise.
Wondered if he wandered in there in a confused state and they took pity on him.