I think it pained us all to see the inglorious departure Martin O’Neill made at Sunderland. He will always remain a hero at Celtic, where he transformed us from a sleeping giant into a Champions League team, but his subsequent record is mixed. He earned a fair return for his spend at Villa but was helpless to prevent the decline of his boyhood favourites, Sunderland.
Eight years after he left we can view his achievements with perspective: fabulous, but Martin falls behind Neil Lennon in scale of achievement. Not only did Neil reach what we used to refer to as ‘the next level’ in Europe, he did so against an enormous redistribution of financial power in Europe. It will be a long time before we trouble the Deloitte Top 20 list of football earners (or spenders).
When Sunderland replaced the student of the game with a showman they lost the sympathy with neutrals, some of their own fans and even the odd Miliband on their board. A dead cat bounce saved them from relegation in May but living with a showman month-in-month-out is harder than enjoying a few outings at the theatre.
Sunderland’s experience demonstrates how few good managers there are and why they are prized so highly.
1254125 at The Great Scottish Run.
On Sunday 6 October there is a 10k and Half Marathon. If that is beyond you. There are family events taking place the day before. This is your club, remind the world of what really counts and get involved in 1254125.
The first thing you need to do is sign up for the Great Scottish Run, or here for one of the family events.
Once you’ve done that, you can register for the 1254125 campaign here.
Then you can create a donations page here. Click Start Fundraising, search for Celtic Charity, setup your My Donate account).
Email me and let me know if you are having trouble signing up or need any more help, celticquicknews@gmail.com.
To read the new issue of CQN Magazine click here (don’t try to read the graphic below).
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Tony Watt
– scores for Lierse
Probably already mentioned but did anyone else notice the change in the ref`s performance on Saturday? While we were completely dominant, he was pretty even – handed. As soon as St J seemed to have a chance, he reverted to the mode we are more used to in scotland. Examples: Sammi fouled and tries to take the free kick three yard from correct place. Ref makes him take it from correct spot; Saints on top, player fouled;takes free kick from nearly ten yards away, ref waves play on. Saints `keeper is going to launch a free kick into our box; ref waves him to hurry up when the `keeper was already rushing to get on with it!!! . Finally, just before they hit the post, a Saints` player`s foot was above Efe`s shoulder with studs showing; ref didn`t deem it to be high!
I don’t think that statement from Tony Watts new coach is any surprise to any of us, let’s hope he pays attention to the man, because I have no doubt in my mind that the boy has talent.
Dan Supporting Wee Oscar
12:36 on 23 September, 2013
Overall Lenny could not lace Martin’s boots as a manager, and I expect that to be proven over time.
Dan
Martin was certainly an outstanding Celtic manager and the board had enough confidence in him to back him with more funds than any other manager in Celtic’s history. But his two successors have also performed with distinction. It strikes me as wrong to wish the current manager ill just to prove he was inferior to a previous boss.
• Foxy
12:46 on23 September, 2013
Dan
What are you basing your supposition on?
————————————————————————————————
Apologies for the slow reply.
Based on many things. It’s always difficult to compare like for like from two different era’s and the game changes as time goes on.
I can remember sitting at Parkhead watching us being beaten by Caley, the dead team going on to win a treble and winning the league by a record margin. Some of my fellow Tim friends went so far as to say at that time the Celtic managers job was a poison chalice.
Martin stepped up to the plate and took them head on. We went from a joke team to a respectable champions league participant and also on to the memorable run to Seville. Also a lot of people forget that Basel who knocked us out at the qualifying stages went on to the last 16 that year, knocking out Liverpool at the group stages. (A team who won the competition just 2 years later). Who knows what would have happened had we beat Basel.
Martin also won the league cup in England with Leicester and kept them in the Premier League often in the top 10. Not long after he left to join us they were relegated. Where are they now?
As I said Lenny’s achievement getting us to the last 16 of the champs league last year is a fine achievement, and in terms of getting further in the champs league Lenny has the best record.
But for me tactically Lenny just not seem to be learning. He still makes the same mistake’s tactically now that he did when we were losing in the league cup to Kilmarnock and St Mirren. I seem to remember his playing by Victor at right back in one of the Semi Finals we lost. The away defeat at Caley that eventually was the difference of losing the league to the dead team. The away game to Motherwell when he tried to play football on their midden of a pitch as it was then, getting beat 2 nil.
I just don’t think Lenny has it tactically and never will. Last midweek against Milan, at 70 minutes when I thought the team was tiring, I thought the obvious tactic would have been to shore up the midfield and settle for a draw, perhaps snatching a late winner if the opportunity arose. In my opinion his substitutions on Wednesday (we were left with four attackers on the park) let Milan then dominate the midfield and thus allowed them further up the park than they had been to that point in the second half, which lead to the goals.
So to compare the two of them in these terms, I don’t think Lenny will ever be as good a manager as Martin.
HH Dan
jam67
We had a World class player??? who elected to ply his trade at Southampton and he firmly believes that one day they will be playing Champions League football
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24092895
I don’t think NFL will be moving until Moyes gets the sack at United
fritzsong
13:13 on
23 September, 2013
Dan Supporting Wee Oscar
12:36 on 23 September, 2013
Overall Lenny could not lace Martin’s boots as a manager, and I expect that to be proven over time.
Dan
Martin was certainly an outstanding Celtic manager and the board had enough confidence in him to back him with more funds than any other manager in Celtic’s history. But his two successors have also performed with distinction. It strikes me as wrong to wish the current manager ill just to prove he was inferior to a previous boss.
——————————————————
Good afternoon fritzsong
I don’t wish the current manager ill to prove a point, and in I would be delighted if he proves me wrong. My opinion is that I think Martin a much better manager than Lenny will ever be, and I think that will be proven over time.
Dan
Interesting comments today from Neil Lennon regarding Tony Watt. Not applied himself in training at Celtic and his fitness levels are down to him. Tony needs to screw the nut or see the prospect of a great career disappearing.
Dan said :
“I just don’t think Lenny has it tactically and never will. Last midweek against Milan, at 70 minutes when I thought the team was tiring, I thought the obvious tactic would have been to shore up the midfield and settle for a draw, perhaps snatching a late winner if the opportunity arose.”
Dan, do you honestly think you know better than NL?
JJ
A very dangerous batch of Class ‘A’ on sale in Sevconia:
“Barcelona 1972 was before my time but I’ve been brought up with the ‘narrative’ that Rangers fans fought with the police and brought shame on the club and country. However, I was recently talking to an Everton fan who is an academic and he was alluding to the fact that the Rangers fans by fighting back against Franco’s police in 1972 was seen as a very good thing by the independence seeking Catalonians. Rangers fans helped Catalonians in their fight against Franco’s regime (who ironically was also a staunch supporter of Catholicism) and establishment of a Catalonian Republic.’
Jungle Jim,
Just giving my opinion.
Dan
AHEAD of our UEFA Champions League
home match against FC Barcelona next
Tuesday, October 1, a small number of tickets
have become available due to returns by the
away support.
Supporters are advised that these tickets –
priced at £49 for adults and £39 for
concessions – are available online only HERE
and we expect them to be taken up very
quickly by our supporters.
The last time we played Barcelona at Celtic
Park will live long in the memory as a 2-1
victory, courtesy of goals by Victor Wanyama
and Tony Watt, saw Paradise lit up on an
unforgettable night of UEFA Champions
League football.
Dan Supporting Wee Oscar,
So to compare the two of them in these terms, I don’t think Lenny will ever be as good a manager as Martin.
______________________________________________________________
Would it surprise you to know that Martin had 13 years of managerial experience before coming to Celtic, Neil had approximately 13 years less than that. It’s a bit early to make comparisons!
MJM
tomtheleedstim
Haha that was an eventful day. Still not sure how my mate managed to drop so many bottles of beer in the apartment.
You going to the Barca game next week? I’m in Copenhagen but back over for the week and managed to get one of the “overpriced” tickets this morning.
HH
monaghan1900
I blame the religious cults allowed into the proddy skools. ;0)
Dan. Fair enough. I keep forgetting that everyone is entitled to their opinion.
JJ
Baku/Black Isle Celt
13:23 on
23 September, 2013
Dan Supporting Wee Oscar,
So to compare the two of them in these terms, I don’t think Lenny will ever be as good a manager as Martin.
______________________________________________________________
Would it surprise you to know that Martin had 13 years of managerial experience before coming to Celtic, Neil had approximately 13 years less than that. It’s a bit early to make comparisons!
MJM
————————————————————————————-
MJM
Fair point. Time will tell.
Dan
asonofdan-Tony Watt needs a kick up the a#$e.
dan supporting wee oscar
13:13 on 23 September, 2013
• Foxy
12:46 on23 September, 2013
Dan
What are you basing your supposition on?
————————————————————————————————
Apologies for the slow reply.
Based on many things. It’s always difficult to compare like for like from two different era’s and the game changes as time goes on.
But yet you do.
ASonOfDan
13:26 on
23 September, 2013
monaghan1900
I blame the religious cults allowed into the proddy skools. ;0)
——
They shouldn’t be allowed to take gear into skools, though.
Ok Monday Club, c yas.
My boss is Peter Principle
Yes I do.
Dan
I was talking with a Southampton-supporting friend yesterday about how di Canio was favourite for the sack. The conversation lead to the inevitable comment from him on how bad Scottish footbal was with one team competing every year. Well, from a Celtic point of view, you can only beat whats in front of you whereas his argument was the EPL was more competitive this year.
Now we all like to argue how well Cetlic would do in the EPL. How about the other way round – how would a team like Hull do in the SPFL or how would a manager like Sam Allardyce do with a team like Ross County for example?
The EPL flatters to deceive
Jungle Jim @ 13:11 on 23 September, 2013
Probably already mentioned but did anyone else notice the change in the ref`s performance on Saturday? While we were completely dominant, he was pretty even – handed. As soon as St J seemed to have a chance, he reverted to the mode we are more used to in scotland.
Totally agree JJ. I was screaming blue murder about that in the final minutes, getting some black looks from the nearest steward. The wee rat is well named Alan Manure!
I suppose, given he is what he is, he COULD have given the penalty at the Stokes incident so perhaps we should be thankful for small mercies.
as_i_thought – hello mate, didn’t recognise the moniker. Hope you are the rest of the lads are all well. It was indeed a strange but fine day!!
Not sure about Barca home. Struggling to get time off of work so it might be a last minute decision. Hoping to make a couple of the away games – Ajax looks like it might be interesting!
More Barca home tickets on sale. I just got one for the auld boy – result!!!
tomtheleedstim
Cool, well let us know if you end up coming up on Tuesday.
Ajax away is the one were gonna be going to as well, not a sniff of tickets yet but I’m sure something will come up, if not I cant imagine us having a bad time in Amsterdam.
Not done much geography since I left the ole skool but I didn’t realise that Manchester was in Catalonia.
Dontbrattbakkinanger
13:46 on
23 September, 2013
Not done much geography since I left the ole skool but I didn’t realise that Manchester was in Catalonia.
They moved it since you left!
as_i_thought – will do mate. I’m fairly sure you’ll all find something to amuse yourself with in Amsterdam. The Van Gogh museum is supposed to be brilliant hehehe.
Dan
At 70 minutes when I thought the team was tiring, I thought the obvious tactic would have been to shore up the midfield and settle for a draw.
I was over for the game and that was my take exactly.
dontbrattbakkinanger
I also bet you didn’t know that in manchester there were fans wearing hun regalia who spoke with NI accents but have never been associated with the deed ones. Them and chelsea casuals.
O’Neill had a cheating Rangers to deal with and the two leagues he lost, were done so on the last day of the season. For a few kicks of a ball, MON could have done 5IAR.
Lenny has done a good job. He’s built his own team out of the Mowbray shambles and done us proud. Yet we do need to remember he has no domestic competition worth talking about. For me, given where we were prior to his arrival, the competition he had to deal with, MON is above both Strachan and Lennon.
Tony Watt has a chance to get his head and body sorted in Belgium. I hope the bhoy can, and return to us and become a superstar. It really is up to Tony, if he wants it?
expat celt- Ray Wilkins was on Sky on Sunday morning, recounting how he went from PSG reserves [ playing in the French third division] to a starting place at Minas Morgul.
So I think that at least initially that Hull City/ Allardyce would do very well up here.
Looks like after my migration from the Sevconian iPhone to the Holy Tim Communications (HTC) device, I’ll be spending my tech pocketmoney on the new Tesco tablet – the Hudl.
The Sevconians won’t like it. Every little helps.
Hendrix- to the untrained ear the harsh Calvinist brogue of Norniron can sound like Catalonian.
tomtheleedstim
I’ll make sure to let the others know thats what we’ll be doing then.