Two years ago, it was Neil Lennon under pressure. Celtic were on a course to lose their first league title in a decade. Fans were unable to attend but a few turned up anyway to boo and harass. Confidence was low and the siege that soon surrounded the club didn’t help.
I spoke to ‘sources close to the club’ after the 2-2 draw at Easter Road in November 2020 and suggested, ‘You’re probably going to lose the league, but if you change manager, it might not be too late’. Changing manager sounds easier than it ever is, but once you make that decision, more difficult questions arise.
When Neil eventually left in February, we promoted John Kennedy as caretaker. John could have taken control earlier and generated something of a dead cat bounce, but that change was not going to transform Celtic from losers to winners.
If we sacked Neil after that draw with Hibs, we could have gone to market trying to recruit a replacement for a manager, who at that stage, had won 100% of the domestic competitions the club competed in during his tenure. It is one thing to sack a failed manager, but sack a manager who had never failed because some fans demanded it? Proportionality of response is required if you are to be taken seriously by serious candidates.
Managers all know the script when it comes to the pressure clubs are under to sack someone when results go south, and they always go south at some point. Celtic didn’t sack Neil that autumn, he left by his own hand with the season’s business overwhelmingly settled.
The problems we had that season were far from limited to the manager. The goalkeeping situation was a disaster zone, as was central defence. We had a defender, midfielder and striker all in the final period of their contracts and wanting away. Jock Stein himself would not have been able to parachute into that mess and turn things around.
After a very lengthy and circuitous process, Celtic eventually recruited an outstanding talent who has transformed every aspect of the football operation. The recovery worked out better than any of us could have hoped. Still, we lost THAT league title.
There were a few reasons why Celtic didn’t sack Neil Lennon early that season, when the writing was on the wall. The man responsible knew he had to subsequently attract a replacement who was able to work the kind of magic Ange Postecoglou delivered. That is not easy. We did so with Brendan Rodgers, but when Brendan left, the recruitment job was much harder. We ended up with Neil, more than appointed him.
I think if a Brendan Rodgers-type candidate was there and prepared to come, Celtic would have made the move earlier that season. This was not the case. None of the options convinced anyone at Celtic that they were going to rescue a season that was so badly out of kilter.
Instead, the club looked to the horizon and planned how to put Celtic back on top as quickly as possible. Changing the manager in haste was not material to this, so Neil did the hard work and got on with the job to the best of his ability. For the record, those of you who spent time yesterday reminiscing, 10 years after beating Barcelona in the Champions League, might consider he was a talented manager. Many worse options were available in November 2020.
Looking back on a successful recovery, this makes sense. At the time, most people just wanted a clearly failing manager sacked. When things are going wrong, we want action, often without considering if the most likely actions will only make things worse.
I cannot believe the bloodthirst for Giovanni van Bronckhorst. Less than six months ago he took a team of journeymen to a European final, one they would have won bar a remarkable save two minutes from the end of extra time. He then beat PSV Eindhoven to qualify for the Champions League group stage, again, a remarkable performance.
The problems at Newco are not all his doing. He lost his best players in the summer and was given little of the proceeds to replace them. His team are aging and, like some in the Celtic squad of season 2019-20, have an eye on the door. He is also up against a formidable Celtic. Sacking the manager will not fix any of this. But still, the demands for action could scarcely be stronger.
Having watched how Celtic kept their eye firmly on recovery in November 2020, it is easy to look around at the mistakes of others.
Newco are surrounded by many worse options that sticking with van Bronckhorst, and I doubt they have genuine faith in a way forward that they believe will knock Celtic off the podium. They can sack a manager who achieved spectacularly for them, or face down some entitled fans. It will be a measure of their board if they are prepared to take abusive flack personally when a scapegoat is available.
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Celtic40me Thank you
BadaBing
Sound Scottish band,I think orig from Dunfermnline
Badbadboy Nazareth
https://youtu.be/SU14_6Ekq9g
HH
https://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/kilmarnock-3-3-celtic/
We dropped 8 points from 4 games, at half time we looked dead and buried, Lenny was a goner and the league was finished
I think the comments show how much things have changed in cypertimland in the last 11 years
Good article by James Forrest today about Toupee Souness. Personally I’ve become tired of his increasingly irrational and lamentable utterances on a whole raft of issues. Time he was put out to graze with the likes of Gray and Keys. I sincerely hope we don’t have to suffer him on any of the upcoming world cup panels.
Am I the only one who finds it funny Frank McAvennie talking about Big Ange having difficulty getting his message across to the players due to the different language barriers.
Or first time round Lenny had the advantage of not being Tony Mowbray and second time round the disadvantage of not being Brendan Rodgers
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 12:11 PM
Paul67
Why compare Apples with Pears ?
………………………………………………………………………………….
Apples with Bears, shirley!?
;)
HH
Neighbour just dropped of a wonderful prezzie, 144 bottles of 1 Lt Staropramen, even threw in half a dozen glasses with the Logo on them, he disny like beer, a truly dedicated vino tinto drinker, Staropramen is up the top handful of beers IMO, over the moon.
Big Jimmy
Sorry for my delay in replying. I was out all afternoon and have just caught your posts as I read back.
Many thanks for your offer.
I have a relative who normally uses my ticket for the SEVCO games but I have been left a few timeswith the ticket when he couldn’t use the ticket.
I would want to continue giving him the ticket as I do at the moment but would be happy to let you have the ticket if he can’t use it. No payment required.
I’ll keep you in mind and let you know on the blog if my ticket is available.
HH
Evening all.
Just catching with the blog.
UNCLE JIMMY on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 12:29 PM
I was never aware of the term ‘Toom Tabard’ have to confess I googled the term and I can see how it fits GVB.
‘Circumstances of his disposition’.
CELTIC40ME on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 7:11 PM
AN DÚN on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 6:10 PM
“We also had a manager who was given his jotters by Hibs and Bolton, one who clearly had no idea how to arrest the alarming deterioration in his squad. We know he had no idea because he literally told us that, several times.”
But not at the time we’re talking about, after 13 games. We were further behind them than you think btw
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54941166
—
We were 9 points behind with two games in hand on 8th Nov 2020 – days after a Sparta youth side hammered us 1-4 at Celtic Park.
Lennon spoke after that match -“ There was a lack of hunger tonight and I don’t know where it’s come from”.
Don’s getting battered by Livi.2 down first 18 minutes.Stupidest penalty.Dons player heads it clear,and teammate puts both hands up,facing him.VAR check got that one right.Dons dreadful.
TET
144 bottles – that’s gross
Big Jimmy
Just sent you an e-mail….you`re probably in bed !!
J
Gene
That actually went through my mind as well, seriously >:)
He works for a supermarket and the sell by date is the end of Jan next year so they were going to dump it, 30% off items are just starting here, again seriously, way way behind the times, if you wanted you could live for free for the stuff they throw away, it’s criminal really, thye won’t even give it away to folks who really need it, and trust me plenty of folks need it.
superb spine tingling piano playibg.
North Curve Celtic
@NCCeltic
·
7h
Green Brigade Food Drive 2022
£59,585.06 and 7 vans of food raised
Please click the link for the full video:
https://youtu.be/Mj0EmDHYbuw
VAR Penalty for Aberdeen and a yellow for the Livi player !
TET
Enjoy, I’m partial to a pint or two
Meanwhile Stoke lead 2-0 at halftime
As you may know James MacLean used to play for Stoke and the fans weren’t happy on his not wearing a Poppy on his shirt – well tonight we had the full military last post and poppy wreaths.
However I haven’t seen 1 supporter wearing a Poppy and it’s armistice week.
AN DÚN on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 8:08 PM
We’re talking using where we were after the 2-2 game against Hibs, 13 games into our spl season, as a comparison to where the Huns find themselves now.
He doesn’t say anything about not knowing about how to arrest an “alarming decline” in that quote. He says he doesn’t know where the lack of hunger had come from.
Two different things.
He’d arrested a far more serious decline previously that had started earlier – we were 3-0 down at half time against kilmarnock on October 15 2011. We were much further behind in the league, at one point it was 15 points, he was finished as manager but by the new year we were ahead in the league
Why wasn’t there the same anger back then when we were so much further behind?
Ticket sorted with Big Jimmy !!!!
“GENE on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 8:42 PM
well tonight we had the full military last post and poppy wreaths.
However I haven’t seen 1 supporter wearing a Poppy and it’s armistice week.”
I hope this doesn`t start a Poppy debate but that illustrates my annoyance with the whole affair. EVERY BBC employee wears one but numbers of wearers on the street are very low. The BBC certainly does NOT reflect the choice of the many.
Cheerio for now.
PS Aberdeen penalty saved and by the Laws of the game it was a penalty but not so sure it would have been give pre-VAR.
Cheerio for now.
The Poppy.
same every year with those forcing their opinion and flawed standards on other free thinker.
The flag saluter has went all in this year.
Poppy flag, one on the car, one in the front window, a stand up metal soldier in the garden.
but still he let fireworks off at the weekend.
he is just missing a bonfire and effigies.
and anither thing,
why cant we have a dignified spacing and reverance of these occassions.
the pagan halloween should be celebrated first and on its own,
then the firworks can go in the shops, and burning catholics celebrated across the land
then 6 days for a rememberance period, without the decorations going up in towns, and selection boxes in the shops.
its all very unbritish nowadays,
some dignity please.
3 penalties in the Don’s game.Scored 1 each,Don’s missed one.Gonna be a record amount of pens.See how many we get.
Don’s much better 2nd half.
LaLiga ITV4,
Osasuna v Barca
Good game,
halftime break, 3 spanish commentators and hosts …………..
Poppies on
wtf.
https://thecelticblog.com/2022/11/articles-and-features/graeme-souness-was-just-a-failed-manager-once-now-hes-a-failed-human-being/
Stoke with only 36% possession win 2-0
Luton huffed and puffed without creating any clear chances.
Looks like Beale’s bubble might have burst at QPR – think that’s 3 defeats on the bounce
CELTIC40ME on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 8:55 PM
I was talking about two years ago – 8th Nov 2020. P67 refers to Hibs as the point he suggested sacking Lennon but many of us had reached that conclusion prior to Hibs. Hibs is not the arbitrary start point for a discussion on the 20/21 season.
My point of no return for Lennon was the humiliation against a Sparta youth side at Celtic Park.
When a gaffer comes out and utters the words ‘ I don’t know’ when asked about a defeat then I think it’s fair enough to say he had no idea. When the same manager spoke of the need for a culture change after being in the job 18 months then alarm bells should have been flashing red in our boardroom.
The problem was Lennon had already overseen a culture change and we were seeing the out workings of that.
By 2020 most of us had read about Lennon’s previous behaviour at Bolton and Hibs. Simply put, we were better informed than 2011.
Many including myself knew more about him and for that reason didn’t want him named permanent gaffer after that Scottish Cup win.
Our executive appointed him anyway and ignored the clear warnings. They then ignored the catastrophic fall in performances in 2020 until the season lay in ashes.
Hot smoked
I was highlighting the hypocrisy of the supporters.
Apologies if posted already
CCV presser
https://youtu.be/9je2Io6tZ6o
Ange Presser
https://youtu.be/K4jmN1F09hE
HH
That’s SIX penalties Walsh has given since VAR came in
Seven if you count him on the monitor Sat, yet he didn’t see the one v Hearts for Celtic
Subscribe
Northern Ireland
Belfast assembled missiles intended for Ukraine could be ‘reverse engineered’ by Iran after falling into hands of Russia
Former Prime Minister Boris Johnson with Managing Director of Thales Belfast, Philip McBride. Credit: Liam McBurney/PA
Christopher Leebody
November 08 2022 06:43 PM
An anti-tank missile which is partly assembled by the Thales Group at the firm’s factory in Belfast could have been transported to Iran after falling into the hands of Russia.
According to Sky News, a security source has claimed a Russian military aircraft secretly flew the NLAW anti-tank missile, a US Javeline anti-tank missile, a Stinger anti-aircraft missile and around 140m Euros in cash to an airport in Tehran back in August.
Thales – which has a factory in east Belfast and an operation in Crossgar – assembles a number of weapons which have been used in the Ukraine conflict.
The French company took over what was Shorts Missile Systems in 2001 and supplies a range of weapons to the Ministry of Defence and others.
It employs around 650 locally, with the Belfast factory designing and manufacturing two weapons which have been used in Ukraine — the LNM and the STARStreak missile.
It also assembles Saab’s next generation light anti-tank weapon (NLAW).
Workers at Belfast-based missile manufacturer Thales vote in favour of strike action
Both former Prime Minister Boris Johnson and current PM Rishi Sunak have previously visited the Belfast factory to inspect the NLAW system.
According to the anonymous security source, the weapons had been part of a shipment of UK and US equipment intended for the Ukrainian military.
The source also told Sky News Iran could seek to potentially “reverse-engineer” the weapons and use them “in future wars”.
Satellite images received by Sky appear to show two Russian military cargo planes at an airport in Tehran on August 20.
Rishi Sunak visiting the Belfast factory during a hustings event
It is understood by the source the transportation of the cash and equipment is part of a deal between the two countries in exchange for Iran supplying Russia with more than 160 unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), including 100 Shahed-136 drones.
It is also reported the government in Tehran has agreed to supply more of the drones in a further deal, alongside bigger and more sophisticated ballistic missiles to Russia.
Speaking to Sky News, Vadym Prystaiko, the Ukrainian ambassador to the UK, said if the reports were confirmed this would “pose a real, real threat”.
“If they [Iranian ballistic missiles] come in numbers, we will have real trouble,” he added.
Iran has dismissed the missile allegation as “completely false” but admitted to supplying “a limited number of drones” to Moscow.
However, according to the Iranian foreign minister Hossein Amirabdollahian this happened before the Russian invasion of Ukraine back in February.
Formerly known as Thomson-CSF until a rebrand in 2000, Thales has had a long local connection dating back to 1936, working with Shorts for years before taking over its missile systems arm at the turn of the millennium.
Thales Group has been contacted.
——-like wtf! I am wondering why weapons are being built in Belfast (haven’t we seen enough?!) & supplied to the phonies in the east.
The journalist wants us to be fixed on some yanks Iranian obsession. Like wtf! Who gives a fiddler’s fk if Iran reverse engineers some missiles?!
Thanks for letting us know we are in a red zone should ever actually kick off
What ever happened to the Irish news. Hunbelievable
Cautious Optimism over Irish unity,The Irish Voice
https://www.theirishvoice.com/comment/cautious-optimism-over-irish-unity/
HH
“!!BADA BING!! on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 10:02 PM
That’s SIX penalties Walsh has given since VAR came in
Seven if you count him on the monitor Sat, yet he didn’t see the one v Hearts for Celtic”
That should be emphasised as much as possible.
Goodnight all.
AN DÚN on 8TH NOVEMBER 2022 9:49 PM
I was talking about two years ago – 8th Nov 2020.
No you weren’t:
“At this stage in the 20/21 season we were 9 points behind with two games in hand”
“My point of no return for Lennon was the humiliation against a Sparta youth side at Celtic Park.”
Good for you. We were talking about the decision that the board faced at this stage in the 2020/21 season after the Hibs game.
15 points behind after having lost the league the season before when it was in his grasp and few calls for his head
8 points behind, having won 5 leagues in a row as boss and four trophies in a row and people were fighting the police to shout at him to get to eff.
You’re kidding yourself if you believe it was because of his “behavior” at Bolton and Hibs whatever that means. Nobody gives a monkeys about nonsense like that.
The headline is spot on: bloodthirst to sack a scapegoat
The desperation for the ten got to all of us.
Hot Smoked
Which session are you going to at the whisky festival on Saturday ?
Celtic 40 Me,
Still going on with many.Shocking Hun like behaviour to a club legend.