All it took was one man, Eddie Smith, who joined the referees strike a year ago as their body became embroiled in allegations of lying, bullying and sectarianism, to make it his business to report Celtic fans to Uefa and the SPL, and the support are besieged on two fronts.
After decades of the police turning a deaf ear to illegal and offensive chanting elsewhere this might appear opportunistic, but Smith’s motivations are irrelevant. We have endured ‘the songs debate’ here for years, the only thing universally agreed upon is that as long as a single Celtic fan sings political songs at a game, this day would come.
I sincerely doubt that Celtic fans sing anything illegal, which perhaps explains why the police encourage observers to ‘police’ the stands, but no one denies many people, including a number of Celtic fans, find such singing offensive. There is, therefore, scope to mount an attempt to discipline the club, and an easy route to inflict reputational damage on each and every Celtic supporter.
The Debating societies will be exercised on the freedom of some to sing racially-hostile God Save the Queen, or the militaristic, Flower of Scotland, and wait for the reaction to what is euphemistically known as ‘the marching season’. In this vein I would encourage the Celtic delegation who meet Uefa next month read aloud a transcript of La Marseillaise, which becomes a logical target if Uefa prosecute our club.
I predict Uefa and the SPL will reprimand Celtic with a cease and desist-type warning which will include specific instructions to remove and ban ‘offenders’. Efforts will be made to prosecute ‘offenders’, which I expect will fail, but not before a few individuals are brought before the court.
Neil Lennon, Jock Stein and since Fergus McCann, the club, have asked fans not to sing political songs. Many agreed but some will not waver, so it would be an act of vanity for lesser mortals to suggest restraint. The slow train-wreck will happen.
Don’t take the notion that attempts to prosecute are likely to fail as legal advice. In my experience, lawyers become a lot less certain once proceedings are underway.
On a separate note, I was pleased to read Iain Blair of the SPL differentiate pro-IRA chanting from sectarian chanting. Lazy jounos everywhere take note.
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Michael Kelly is wrong about IRA/’Provisional’ IRA as I’m sick pointing put on this blog.
However, if it puts the media et al in a spin on this issue, he can be forgiven on this occasion..
Oiche mhaith.
Árd Macha
James Forrest is Lennon says:
15 November, 2011 at 23:39
Saw that, it was the quickest Gary Hooper has moved all season.
Ian Mc Millan
Doug Bailie
George Peat
George Mooney
Baillies Lane
Bobby Watson
John Orrs (shop in Airdrie that refused to sell Catholic school uniforms)
Dalziel Rolls
106 Masons club
Airdrie Savings Bank ( never employed a Catholic for years and years till the headmaster of St Pats Coatbridge visited them)
The Royal bar
The Drumgelloch bar Got its own flute bon!!
Ref Bobby Davidson.
Clarkson Flute bon
Jim Ballantyne.
The Wee Tim Rovers fae Coatbridge gubbed you’s 7-2.
HT @ 23:43
Aye. It’s funny how we as Celtic Supporters can never trust anyone representing us in the public eye. We’ll never know who to trust in this country.
But that’s the way they like us.
Don’t know if it’s just me, but I’m on a high after hearing him out the polis for backstabbing the SNP. He did a lot with that. He’s given Labour an angle to confront this ridiculous bill with, and also exposed the polis for playing politics. Many of them will be uneasy after that.
Clever clever mhan.
The Honest Cover up
I want to have the right to sing Republican songs at the football.
What group does that put me in?
The Ghood will prevail says:
15 November, 2011 at 19:54
Guys, before you think I’m taking the establishment line – believe me – the outcome the huns LEAST want is for us to stop singing the reb songs. No matter what they say. If we stop, they will no longer have a stick to beat us with
I’m sorry I found myself argueing with James Forrest and ANNOAN earlier as they’re two absolute stars on CQN and I agree with the vast majority of what they were saying in terms of the disgraceful way our club is being treated over this. Where I disagree is the way forward. TGWP summed it up above with the best post of the day imo.
Lads cheers my m8 just text to say I’ll get it on STV plus 1 noo
The Honest Cover-up says:
15 November, 2011 at 23:44
If it’s good enough for Brother Walfrid, it’s good enough for me.
FFM
Agreed I think there will be smiling and squirming in equal amounts after his performance tonight.
This is the sort of strategy we should utilise more often in the future.
Hamiltontim,
But Celtic FC sell you a ticket on the proviso that you do not sing republican songs at the football. Read the small print.
In law, their right trumps your right.
So how about you selfishly sing your songs, embarass your club, play into the hands of the gleeful hun media, and then get ejected and banned.
Or you could just respect the feelings and wishes of the majority of the Celtic support, and sing about Celtic. Or sing any other Irish folk tune you fancy.
The Honest Cover Up
“Derbyshirebhoy,
I think ernie lynch is the only poster who states that he wants to sing the RA songs at games.”
I think you are mis-representing ernie, probably deliberately. He never ever stated that he wanted to sing the song or the line. He answered, yes, however, to the question of whether it is acceptable to do so at matches. Acceptable is not the same as desired.
You must surely be capable of seeing the difference. Many of us are prepared to see those songs and chants leave CP without having to declare that they are shameful or wrong.
Down at Celtic Park is where I want to be
Watching Beram Kayal in midfield with Joe Ledley
Kris Commons on the left and Broony on the right
And Stokes and Gary Hooper scoring goals in green and white
I assume that when Paul McBride has been speaking recently on this issue he’s doing so as an employee of the club rather than as either a fan or a pundit offering legal opinion? It is not illegal to sing political songs whether within or without a football ground, offensive or otherwise. I think Mr. McBride should be asked in what capacity he speaks when he is on TV/Radio.
The use of the word “illicit” is baffling. I take this in it’s usual sense to mean “illegal”. Unless, like the word “sectarian” this has been redefined in SNP NewSpeak?
Any thoughts??
The Good…
Before you ride off on Tonto maybe you should read my post again.
I think you’ll find the key word was ‘right’.
The Honest Cover-up @ 23:44
There’s only been one person in the last few days here who has defended the PIRA here per se, and did it an emotional way directly related to his/her own experiences, which many of us here wouldn’t be able to understand but have the sense to appreciate.
The focus of the debate has been about an individual’s rights, regardless of how offensive some people might find it, to sing/chant in support of whatever organisation they choose – despite the attempts of people like Bouncyboy to steer that debate towards other things.
The previously discredited Kelly put up the kind of robust defence of our club that has been missing since the days of The Bunnet or even wee Brian. What does that say about the current board?
I was lucky enough to attend my first ever CSA rally at CP earlier this year, where John Reid was roundly praised for a tub-thumping speech in support of the club and the football manager. I must confess my feelings of despair when Reid announced that the club had a leader that everyone could get behind and rally to the cause.
As if Neil Lennon wasn’t already under enough pressure after the bombs, bullets and death threats, here was the chairman of Glasgow Celtic saying that Lenny was the new figurehead for the club. Where was the statesman like leadership in that comment from the former British Home Secretary?
Neil needed time to be left alone to develop his FOOTBALL managerial skills, with the leadership of the club being driven from the boardroom, not the dugout.
It’s a sad day when Dr Michael Kelly can show our board what a pair of cahones looks like.
Good night!
HH
TTTT
Nat Know
I think “illicit” is the phrase used in Uefa regulations.
“Offensive” is the terminology proposed by the new Bill.
Sectarian is how it will be described by the press & media as they don’t know what they are on about.
Michael Kelly tonight, for those who missed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynI2PPlP_W8&feature=youtu.be
Thanks to John Doc.
Michael Kelly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynI2PPlP_W8&feature=youtu.be
Uploaded by jinkylarsson7
Socks – magic!
Despite some differences, some possibly important, I do detect a real sense of regrouping amongst our support tonight.
jude2005 is Neil Lennon \o/ says:
15 November, 2011 at 23:48
I got my first St Pats blazer in John Orrs.
I remember old Mr Ormeroid giving shop workers who were watching the orange parade passing a good old row.
So he wasn’t so bad.
Oh and my next St pats blazer came from Coatbridge Coop.
‘GG
The Good…
I’ve had a season ticket since 1989, I’ve been to hundreds of away games and never, even in the small print, saying that I can’t sing Republican songs.
SFTB
“Sectarian is how it will be described by the press & media as they don’t know what they are on about”
“Sectarian is how it will be described by the press & media as they know ‘exactly’ what they are on about”
NatKnow says:
15 November, 2011 at 23:56
The QC talks now a days as if someone is working him from the back. Makes you wonder.
ernie lynch says:
15 November, 2011 at 23:53
Brother Walfrid said it would be OK to sing “up the RA” IN 2011 after a peace process in Northern Ireland?
Have you been on “Most Haunted” or something.
If you had been in the crowd when Jock Stein waded in to tell supporters to stop the chants would you have continued then as well?
The Ghood will prevail says:
15 November, 2011 at 23:54
Hamiltontim,
‘But Celtic FC sell you a ticket on the proviso that you do not sing republican songs at the football. Read the small print.’
What the rules actually say is ‘The use of threatening behaviour, foul or abusive language is strictly FORBIDDEN. Racial, sectarian, political, homophobic or discriminatory abuse or chanting is also forbidden and is considered as unacceptable conduct and may result in arrest and a lifetime ban from regulated football matches’
Not quite what you thought. Maybe the print is too small.
The rules also ban taking photos in the ground and standing.
And my favourite ‘Unnecessary noise such as from the use of radio sets and behaviour likely to cause confusion, annoyance, or nuisance of any kind, is not permitted in any part of the Stadium.’
There won’t be many left when they enforce that lot.
Bryce Curdy:
I do get where you and some of the guys are coming from mate, believe me. I think a day which I was initially despairing of has turned into a bit of a win for us in the end, with the news that the 17 year old boy has been released as a result of someone realising the bomb was primed for detonation when the global media got hold of the story … as many of us were labouring away to make sure they did, and the brilliant performance of Michael Kelly tonight who used the fact he now has no official position at the club to lay into Salmond, the police and even Paul McBride in a polished and cerebral assault which was effective because he also condemned the songs, whilst defending the rights of the people who sing them.
I worried earlier that we couldn’t win this battle because we are divided. We’re not as divided as I first thought, and even divided we are STILL more than a match for these people. Kelly took the argument apart tonight.
Hamiltontim
I guarantee you that by buying a ticket for CP (I can’t comment on other grounds as I haven’t checked) requires you to abide by the standards of behaviour of Celtic FC. Whether political songs are mentioned explicitally or not, they don’t need to be; in law they would refer you to a more detailed list of their rules and regs.
SFTB –
Cheers. I wonder if UEFA define “illicit” clearly and if the police share the same definition? I.e. What is it about the alleged chanting that is considered illicit? It is reference to a organisation that is proscribed by the government of the country in which the team operate etc.?
Just to declare my hand, I support the views expressed by some others that there is no need to score an own goal on this by manufacturing the very bullets that will be used to hang us. There. That’s a perfect mixed metaphor for a football discussion.
The Ghood will prevail @ 23:54
You’ve expressed your opinion. It was selfish. And as ignorant as you believe those to be that sing the things you find offensive.
Can you not tell the difference between defending the right to free speech, and the individual’s choice of how they use that right?
Hamiltontim/The Ghood
You are probably referring to the following regulation from Celtic:
The use of threatening behaviour, foul or abusive language is strictly FORBIDDEN. Racial, sectarian, political, homophobic or discriminatory abuse or chanting is also forbidden and is considered as unacceptable conduct and may result in arrest and a lifetime ban from regulated football matches.
Whether republican is classed as political?
On yersel michael Kelly it’s a pity our board don’t come out with all guns blazing like you my friend
reilly1926 –
Agree. The QC’s position on anything seems to sway in the breeze. My guess is that he’s there at the behest of the club. Just wish he’d declare upfront who he’s representing.
Boys goodnight and godbless
The Good..
Yes but there is nothing saying it is ILLEGAL to sing these songs.
You’ve chosen to ignore my point about ‘rights’ whilst steaming in and accusing me of ignoring the wishes of my fellow Celtic supporters. Why is that?
Fortunes Favour Mibbes says:
15 November, 2011 at 23:59
I appreciate that people have the right to hold different views and to express them. I don’t agree with this new bill and I don’t think the chants should be made illegal. But I, like most here, want them to stop.
I would be pissed off if people in the cinema were talking loudly during a film. I wouldn’t want them to be arrested or for it to be made a crime but I would want them to stop.
Surely the Celtic support can be mature enough, if not savvy enough to respect the wishes of the majority of the support and stop the chants and stop the providing ammunition to the media.
Cheers for the link a chara