It is a measure of how far we have come during this Champions League campaign that a 2-1 defeat away to Benfica, leaving us favourites to qualify in second place for the Champions League knockout stage and assured of European football after Christmas, is a disappointment.
Unlike previous defeats in this competition, this one has not limited our ambitions.
Around this time of previous Champions League campaigns I’ve opined that Uefa Cup/Europa League qualification would be preferable to finishing second in the group stage, leading to inevitable elimination to a group winner. Teams who drop out of the Champions League have the prospect of a decent run in the Europa League, earning more coefficient points and potentially more cash, whereas Celtic never convinced me they could reach the last eight of the Champions League.
This time is different. We got it wrong last night and as a result lost the head-to-head against Benfica but this was not the case against Barcelona. Most of the current group leaders are better than Celtic, all would create more chances and have more possession against us, but here’s the rub, Celtic can score goals against anyone and can defend remarkably well.
Georgios Samaras has now scored in three consecutive group stage away games; he scored in all of Celtic’s five away games in Europe this season, surely a record. This is beyond a mere statistical oddity, it’s a result of a strategy which Benfica, Barcelona and Spartak have been unable to cope with (last night’s block-and-free-header routine was a thing of technical brilliance).
We’ve scored five goals in total in our three away group stage games. In the eight away games in the competition proper before this season, since losing in Copenhagen, we scored only once (remember against whom?)! In short, we can go anywhere and play effective counter-attacking football which even the best team in history had trouble dealing with.
That doesn’t mean we are champions-elect, of course. Benfica, who are a worthy team but are not tier-one material, got the better of us. They played to form last night and Celtic dipped. Scott Brown was clearly unfit, Charlie Mulgrew may-or-may-not have declared himself ill before kick-off but his condition did not help (stunning corner aside).
Neil also left out Kris Commons. Kris’s form has shaded since The Beating of Barca, so I was not surprised to see him on the bench, but did you notice we started to get balls into the Benfica box after he came on? More of this and I fancy Benfica would have yielded. In his post-match comments Neil Lennon reminded us his players are young and will learn from the experience.
It’s easy to overlook the fact that the manager is also young and learning as he goes along. His tactical decisions have been the real revelation of this group, even if he did leave Kris out and his gamble with Scott Brown didn’t work. His progress as a manager has been, as our old friend might say, astonishing.
Fraser Forster provided more evidence of his outstanding ability. Mikael Lustig and Kelvin Wilson looked perfectly at ease with under frenetic pressure but Efe Ambrose particularly impressed. I’ve watched Celtic defences for decades and we always seem to have a ‘junior partner’ but not now.
The defence made two mistakes last night but in all their games together they have yet to conjure up a Big Dan Moment.
My objectives for this Champions League campaign have already been surpassed but expectation levels are never level, so let’s take care of Spartak and see where the adventure goes next.
Orders are now open for the very first CQN Annual, get it here!
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vmhan
Deepest condolonces on the sad passing of your father.
HH!!
canamalar 03:42
“Antics,
It could be said the belief in
heaven causes more harm
than satirists”
Yes sure, particularly to the horses.
………………………..
It’s was very quet day with no comments about Hamas sending missiles after Israel negotiated peace. No links to the motobikers in Gaza.
MrZ..,
What are you gibbering about fool
Good Morning to all.
It’s only +6C here and Autumn.
I heard Glasgow is strange place. It’s never-ending Winter with dark clouds and cold over half of the city. And it’s already sunny Spring since Tuesday over the other half of the city.
I just read interesting article on Russian website, long analysis on group G. The journalist compared Spartak and Celtic. It was Spartak who was stronger, richer, better before the competition started. He explained how this happened that things turned upside down and of course praised Celtic.
Finally, Spartak priority is their league but…
Spartak will be fighting in Glasgow for prestige, points to rankings. They want revange becouse they remember that Celtic knocked them out.
Good morning CQNers,
I make no pretence of being in any way knowledgeable about tax issues and I suppose that’s why I’m flummoxed by the FTT decision the loans/emoluments weren’t part of the wages structure at Rangers.
Everyone who received these payments were either players, managers, ex-managers or executives and you would have thought were the least likely individuals in the organisation who’d need loans/emoluments. If it had been lowly paid grounds men or secretaries I could have perhaps accepted the decision more readily.
No, something is not right here.
I’ve consistently posted the Scottish establishment would act as a protector of their football club, a club that is an ‘Institution’ in Scotland. The only scenario I can imagine where this decision fits is one where the politicians have intervened……
1. The FTT would, in effect, give Rangers a get out of jail card by declaring in their favour in their use of EBT’s. This then permits the establishment to declare that Rangers didn’t diddle the country and the clubs reputation remains intact.
2. The FTT rules the payments as loans and gives BDO the chance to reclaim the money for HMRC’s coffers.
It’s a win-win solution, it can be reported that steps are being taken to repay HMRC with the errant money and the establishment’s team are above reproach.
The un-besmirched club can now be taken back into the establishment fold in due course and the jobs a good un.
I await the learned posters dissection of the FTT.
Good morning friends from a damp but about to be very wet and very windy East Kilbride.
Vmhan,
My sincere condolences.
Murdochbhoy….
From what I can gather, the Trust was a separate entity, therefore any loan recovery will stay with the Trust, however there is something called gratuous alienation which might be used by BDO to recover some of the money given to the Trust.
Vmhan: sorry to hear about your dad mate…
I was astounded to hear the news that considerable millions paid to employees where written guarentees were provided that no repayment would be required and no repayments have or will be made are ‘loans’.
Then I smiled because the fuss was all post mortem…
Zbyszek
How are Spartak re. player bans and injuries?
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire
As I said, I’m waiting for those learned folk to post some analysis of the report.
Everything I’ve read up to this point intimated the FTT panel were beyond reproach but I’m really stumped by their decision.
The majority decision was also intriguing.
up_over_goal
No banned but many injured. Better to wait for the list after two huge games against Dynamo Moscow and Zenit St.Petersburg.
People talked here about their schedule. No big influence on the game against Celtic.
I was afraid after 0:3 against Barcelona their coach Unai Emeri was going to resign.
In one of the articles I read that 90 % journalists waiting for after game conference expected that news. Unai Emeri did not resign and the journalists found that his future at Spartak depends on two results, against Dynamo and Zenit.
Unai Emeri there for the game against Celtic Glasgow is very good news.
I was afraid that Valeri Karpin was going to take the team after Emeri resignation.
.
Zbyszek..
They want revange becouse they remember that Celtic knocked them out.
MrZ..I have had my Fears that Spartak would beat us @ Parkhead since the Moscow game..Even more so Now they are Out and have No Pressure..
Hope l am Wrong.. Celtic need to be Up for this Game.. Forget Barcà Vs Benfica.. And How badly Spartak have preformed..
Don’t go back to thinking we Just need to ‘Turn Up’..
Summa of Samaras
canamalar
I hope I did not disturb the equilibrium of the debate :-)
Just listening to Leonard Cohen “Songs of Love and Hate” . What a wonderful equilibrum of fine words and music.
Watched the Benfica match last night. Before it started, I thought Celtic looked good going down the sides, but dodgy through the middle. Afterwards, there was no differentiating between how poor we were in any area of the pitch (although, for me, Forster, Wilson and Lustig were honorable exceptions).
However, it can be noted that 1) Mulgrew was sick and 2) Brown wasn’t fit. This begs the question, is it arrogance or denial that makes a player believe that, at 50% fitness, he’s a better option than his benched teammate? Or the reverse, is it rash judgement on the part of the coaching staff to take a risk on a player whose body is breaking down?
So – to player combinations. As of now, I am less convinced that Ambrose/Wilson are the answer. With 3 midfielders in front of them, maybe, but in 4-4-2 type formations, they haven’t looked convincing – achieving 14 pts from 27.
Similarly, in the middle, Wanyama/Ledley is about the only partnership featuring Wanyama that doesn’t work! They don’t complement each other – again, 14 from 27.
Up front, Samaras and Hooper have never looked right. Hooper thrives on quick interplay, and doesn’t hold the ball up, while Sammi is the exact opposite. I can see why Lenny went for them – our top names – but I was surprised not to see Miku (whose experience of Spanish football would have been a huge advantage – yes, I know they’re Portuguese) feature at all while Watt only had 10 mins at the end, not enough to really get to grips with the play.
Finally, Celtic are now left with 2 of their key midfielders out for the Spartak match, leaving us short of options when it comes to formations. I agree with other posters when they say it’s time to have another look at Ambrose in midfield, particularly if Rogne can get fit in time for December.
MrZ..,
Equilibrium ah that elusive point capitalists tell us is the perfect state where supply meets demand, fools gold
Summa of Sammi….
The game in Moscow was Neil Lennon and his team masterpiece of reading Spartak play. They did stunning work before the jouney there.
I’m pretty sure they can do similar work before the game in Glasgow. Plus the supporters… Emeri still there is realy very good news. I was afraid Spartak would lost 0:6 to Barcelona and things could turn for worse to Celtic with the new coach there.
I belive that after couple of minutes Spartak players will give up.
There are few players at Spartak who will be talking about the transfers.
Their striker Ari is negotiatin with the Ukrainian club. Dzuba (another striker) is not happy at the club and is going to consider transfer.
Injuries, couple who will be thinking about transfers and would not risk their health in not important game.
Up_over…,
Got to say I did not think Hooper or Ledley looked fit either, they both looked distressed early on.
Zbyszek
Thanks – I know you’ll keep CQN updated. Unai must stay!
Players looking for transfers will not find a better shop window than the CL.
As I said after the game on Tuesday when the Brit meeja were babbling on about Spartak having nothing to play for, and how tough it will be for Benfica having to play Barca.
I’d rather be playing a team who have nothing to loose at the top of the table than a team trying to regain some respect.
Canamalar
When it comes to players like Ledley, Hooper and Brown, Lenny has a record of playing them if at all possible, i.e. a semi-fit Brown is better than a fit Commons/Mcgeouch, or a semi-fit Hooper is a safer bet than a fully fit Miku/Lassad. In the Barca game, we had players who were more or less 100% (Miku chosen over Hooper, Commons over Brown), and I believe that made the difference.
Bhoys can someone please clarify before I lose my best bottle of Whiskey……too many conflicting versions in and around the blogs
SFA issued Sevco with New Licence or Transferred Olco’s – yes or no?
Who do we seriously fancy in last 16…..Barcelona again or is that temptin fate?
popes butler
07:45 on 22 November, 2012
Transferred oldco’s……..ManU
Back from an enjoyable trip to Lisbon, far better than my last visit.
Agree with some of the assessment in leader, competitiveness, desire and organisation is there in abundance but imo we lack that bit of quality in terms of our ball retention. Although this team has achieved something remarkable in securing euro football in the new year with a game to spare.
On Tuesday i thought Benfica had a real class act in Salvio and Mathews did well to recover from a nervy start.
Big Efe i thought was caught positionally a few times but still learning and i do like his compusure.
Commons – tin hat on – i just dont get it. Maybe i miss something being at the games but for me he is selfish, lazy and more often than not wasteful and i believe we have better options.
I thought Lassad or Miku wouldve been better subs at that time.
So to the last game and the Benfica fans i spoke to are VERY confident they can draw in Camp Nou……….i think a win v spartak will take us through.
Celtic support as always a credit, another ovation from opposong fans at full time.
We are progressing well and we should be rightly proud of our young team.
Hail Hail
Thanks 67Heaven…
That might explain why Scottish and UEFA bodies show The Rankers with all of Oldco’s trophies…….why don’t they show ZIP in the cabinet, I’m missing something or have we all been duped??
.
Courtesy E-Tims..
A BEAR’S DECK OF CARDS PRAYER BOOK
A Bear’s “Deck of Cards” Prayer Book
by
PensionerBhoy
(Based on the words of the song “Deck of Cards – A Soldiers Prayer”)
Upon finding that the “Internet Bampots” were right and having extracted his head from the sand, a distraught Bear slunk from his den and into town. As he passed a small church, he stopped and looked in and saw that people had gathered there to worship. The Bear wandered in, walked down the aisle and slid into a pew. He took his seat next to some worshippers who had their heads bowed in prayer. The Bear, having no prayer book of his own, took out a time-worn deck of playing cards depicting a defunct old football team. He fanned the cards before him and started to mumble to himself in his traditionally incoherent way. The worshippers, amazed at the Bear for displaying a deck of cards, the “Devil’s Season Tickets” (for Ibrox), in the house of the Lord, nudged him and whispered, “Put those away, you can’t do that here!”
The Bear, as was his wont, paid little attention to them and carried on with his cards and mumblings. The worshippers became quite alarmed and sent for the police and the poor Bear was arrested. He was put in jail for the night and the next morning was brought before the magistrate, charged with disorderly conduct for displaying such a deck of cards in a place of worship. The Magistrate asked what he had to say for himself, “Guilty or not guilty?”
The Bear, standing before the bar of justice, replied, “Not guilty, Your Honour, and with your kind permission, I would like to present this defence for my actions.”
With that, he took out his old time-worn deck of cards, fanned them out before him, and then he began:
“Your Honour, now that I have seen the light and turned away from all things blue, this deck of cards has become my prayer book and Bible.
When I look into these cards and see an Ace, it reminds me that there is only one SPL team left now in Glasgow.
When I see the Deuce, it reminds me that two previous owners, Murray and Whyte, sent my old football club into oblivion.
When I see the Trey, it represents the division in which the team I now support play, S.F.L.3.
When I see the Four, it reminds me of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Lennon, Hector the tax man, Death and Craig Whyte.
When I see the Five, Your Honour, I think of the five European stars that can no longer be legitimately displayed on my team’s shirts
When I see the Six, it reminds me that for six months Duff and Phelps screwed my old club and its creditors.
When I see the Seven, it brings back horrible memories of the record number of goals scored against my old team in a League Cup final.
When I see the Eight, it reminds me of the eight main righteous sources of our “Downfall”: The Catholic Church and the Pope; Celtic and Neil Lennon; The Irish; The Internet Bampots; Phil Mac Giolla Bhain; R.T.C.; Paul MacConville and Alex Thompson.
When I see the Nine, I’m reminded of the nine in a row league wins that will be wiped out leaving only one team with the world record.
When I see the Ten, I think of how that other team could win ten and eleven and twelve and….leagues in a row over the next couple of decades with no Glasgow team to challenge them.
Now, Your Honour, the Jack reminds me of the Knave that sold my club down the river. I pray Sir David gets his just deserts.
When I see the Queen, I think of all our songs in her honour and how my old club robbed her of an awful lot of money by not paying her good servant Hector his rightful dues.
And when I see The King, I am reminded that “there is only one King Billy and that’s McNeil”.
He then folded up the deck of cards, shuffled them once, and fanned them out before him. Then he continued:
“Your Honour, when I look into this deck of cards, I see that there are 365 spots, these represent the number of days my new club has to wait before it can sign new players.
The Joker is a multiple choice card, Minty Murray, The Whyte Knight or The Green Chucky.
There are fifty-two cards in the deck, there are fifty-two weeks in a year and that is the minimum length of time my new team will be in the bottom division of the Scottish Football League.
There are twelve face cards reminding me of the number of faces Chucky Green can put on in public.
Actually, there are thirteen cards in each suit. These remind me of the minimum on my old club’s side when it played football matches in Scotland.
Speaking of the suits, well, they are still working hard on our behalf in the football corridors of power.
Lastly, Your Honour, this deck of cards has two colours, orange and blue; the orange stands for our dislike of the Irish and the blue stands for our dislike of everything except ourselves.
So you see, Your Honour, not only is this deck of cards my prayer book and Bible, it is also my masonic handbook.!”
With that, His Honour said, “Case dismissed!”
Pensionerbhoy
(Based on the version by Capt. G.E. “Hap” Hill (Ret)
Summa
Why Rangers FC Continues, Even In Newco, and Why This is No Use to CEO Green
Charles Green, now CEO of “The Rangers Football Club” said on Thursday, “Today we are out of the SPL. Today we are not in the SFA. These are problems that we have to deal with to get this football club back playing football here.”
Is he right?
I do not think so. In a detailed analysis, considering the SPL Articles and Rules and the Articles of the SFA, I have concluded that Rangers FC does have a separate identity from that of Rangers Football Club PLC (In Administration). It is this separate entity that Charles Green has bought. However, Mr Green’s comments suggest that, despite having the opportunity to state unequivocally that Rangers FC remains in existence, he has declined this. Instead, he is setting up his new club, which will seek to parachute its way into a league that it is already entitled to take part in, subject to regulatory and disciplinary issues.
On one hand Mr Green talks of protecting the history. On the other his actions are consistent only with the football club he owns being a new creation. One hundred and forty years eliminated because Mr Green and his allies see that there are three separate risks factors for Rangers, any of which on its own could have destroyed the Sevco investment, and with the combination of all three present, Mr Green feels he has to stack the deck in his favour. He is playing for high stakes, and cannot afford to lose.
I apologise for this piece being lengthy, but I wanted to be as thorough as I could. Please comment especially if you see the gaping holes I have missed!
—————————————-
First, let us see what, if anything, is clear.
What Happened to The Rangers Football Club PLC?
The assets of “The Rangers Football Club PLC (In Administration)” have been sold by the administrators, Duff & Phelps, to a consortium headed by Charles Green. This sale was for £5.5 million, on the basis that, according to D&P, it was the best deal for creditors once the CVA was rejected by HMRC.
The fact that a consortium headed by Walter Smith has now appeared with a higher offer may cause some concern, for both D&P and Mr Green, but that is for another post.
On a side issue, I note that Mr Green is saying that the sale is to “The Rangers Football Club”. It cannot be to “The Rangers Football Club PLC” as that still exists and is in administration, and is the seller. Presumably, the intention is to change the name of Mr Green’s company, Sevco 5088 Ltd to “The Rangers Football Club PLC” once the existing company is liquidated. Alternatively, he may wish Sevco 5088 Ltd to use “The Rangers Football Club” as a trading name. As he has bought the rights to the name, in terms of the “intellectual property” then that is in order.
What Did Mr Green Buy?
To avoid extra confusion, I will refer to The Rangers Football Club PLC (In Administration) as “Rangers PLC”, to Sevco 5088 Ltd and “The Rangers Football Club” as “Sevco” and to the football club as “Rangers FC”.
It looks as if Sevco has bought everything. It was described as “the assets and business of Rangers Football Club PLC”. That could even include the rights to pursue the High Court cases regarding Collyer Bristow and the money due for the Jelavic transfer. I posted in detail about this yesterday here.
What is “Rangers Football Club”? (Only Polite Answers Please!)
This is where things get complicated. Dealing first with the Rules of the SPL, they define a “club” as follows:-
“Club means an association football club, other than a Candidate Club, which is, for the time being, eligible to participate in the League and, except where the context otherwise requires, includes the owner and operator of such club;”
So, a club is a club! The club must be eligible to compete in the SPL, and “includes the owner and operator of such club”.
I think this might turn out to be the key phrase in working out precisely where Rangers FC and Sevco now stand. This relates to whether Rangers FC can play in the SPL or SFL next year, and what happens to the ongoing disciplinary procedures.
The SPL definition of a club sees it as being separate and distinct from the owner. The words “club” and “clubs” appear 1,173 times in the 103 pages of the SPL Rules. The word “owner” appears four times.
The definition in the SPL Articles of a club is as follows:-
“Club means the undertaking of an association football club which is, for the time being, entitled, in accordance with the Rules, to participate in the League.”
Looking at the definition therefore, a club can be distinct from its owner, and therefore, subject to the remaining criteria, a football team playing as Rangers FC can be a continuation of the existing team, notwithstanding its sale to another entity.
Under Rule A2.5, the membership criteria are as follows, with my comments in bold after each relevant section:-
“A2.5.1 A Club participating in the League must be a member of the SFA. We will look at the definition of membership below. For now, note that the reference is to the club being the member, although under the definition, club includes owner.
A2.5.2 A Club participating in the League must have registered or be deemed to have registered its ground in accordance with Rule H6.1. Rangers PLC/Rangers FC will have registered Ibrox as its ground, one assumes.
A2.5.3 A Club participating in the League must:-
A2.5.3.1 itself, or through a subsidiary or holding company of such Club, own its Registered Ground; or
A2.5.3.2 have such other rights of occupation or tenure in its Registered Ground as may be approved by the Board. The Club, or by definition its owner, needs to have a legal right to play on its ground. Right now, and as long as the transfer of title has been registered in Edinburgh in the Land Register, Sevco owns the ground. It also owns “the club”, Rangers FC if it can be taken that the club has a separate identity from that of the owner.
Rules A2.5.4 to A2.5.6 deal with specifics of the ground such as seating and undersoil heating, and with the obligation of clubs to develop youth football. These rules are irrelevant for present purposes.
A2.5.7 Clubs and the Candidate Club shall from and including 1 January 2010 comply with the Financial Disclosure Requirements. This can only be a reference to the owner, as there are not separate books prepared for the club. However, in fulfilling this requirement, a change of owner simply means a different name at the top of the accounts? In any event, the deadline for producing all of the financial information, and satisfying all the requirements passed on 31st March, and an extension was granted to 15th June.
So Alistair Johston just wants slapped wrists for Dual contracts…………. These people really have no shame.It should be hand cuffs on the wrists for the lot of them. Cheats.
Ps still think Packie shouldn’t be slated for 1 ill advised comment.A real Celtic mhan.
Hail Hail
Up_over..,
That’s one of my pet hates, favouritism, I said before the game we needed all players 100% fit, my only problem with my pet hate is, if Sammi wasn’t a fav he’d be gone, so it’s a long walk off a short plank with that sentiment there is room for favouritism :o)
But even in Sammi’s case if he’s no fit he shouldn’t get a game.
The team should always be selected as a result of competition and fitness, if a player is out the team for any reason there should be no automatic entry route. I mean what’s the point of having a good squad the create competition if no matter how hard a player tries he’s no getting a chance until a fav is crippled or banned, that was the only thing about GS that grinds my gears.
Oh and unlike a load of Captain Hindsights on here I said it all before the game, in fact I’m boring myself repeating it :o)
yawn yawn…
see that canamalar…..
i’m away back to lurking…..o))
If Alan Hutton was ever worth 10 Million then Victor Bhoy is worth three times that. I am sickened by the attempts of the envious to talk his value down. If he is going to go then he is worth to the penny what a team is prepared to pay for him. At the moment, all things considered, I think 25 Million is a steal in the same mould as King Kenny.
Juan Sebastián Verón from Lazio to Man. Utd. in 2001 for 28 Million
Rio Ferdinand, from Leeds to Man Utd. at 24 years of age for 29 Million.
Andy Carroll from Newcastle to Liverpool 35 Million
Fernando Torres from Atletico Madrid 20 million
Shaun Wright-Phillips from Man City to Chelsea, 27 Million
Damien Duff from Blackburn to Chelsea 23 Million
Darren Bent from Charlton to Spurs in 2008 for 22 Million
Mister Flo to the huns, a lot of money laundering.
If Victor continues to progress as he has will be a more valuable team player than any of those named above, and I never mentioned the fuds, bar one.
Good Morning Soup takers
Morning All, obviously my money’s on Celtic to win the big cup this year ;-) but I’ll be putting a side bet on Dortmund after their performance last night. Demolished a very good Ajax side.
HH
Don’t feed the troll
bt,
Shut it lerkio
Have you no got crisis loans to aranger, I’m hearing there a plot afoot to supplement them again with taxpayers money :oD))))
Can a get a £500 crisis loan I need a new cooker, fridge and bed
Morning al. Wild, wet and very windy here in North Ayrshire today.
Italiabhoy/googybhoy,
Many thanks for the replies last night. I have just read back. I still wonder how the management of the BBC allow such a situation to continue, when it is so at odds with what the BBC is supposed to stand for. I spent many a year listening to the World Service and it was excellent (Lee Kwan U once banned it in Singapore and yet allowed it to be broadcast on FM from the island, as he listened to it himself.) Can we as licence payers not demand they maintain their own set standards?
Spotted our hero, Craigy White, in The Ivy in London last night. I resisted the urge to thank him. He’s smaller than I thought, has a quiff George Michael would have loved back in the day and wore a really naff City Cash Tailors striped suit and a haunted look.
But his his walk that’s striking. He waddles from side to side due to the broadest splayed feet I’ve ever seen.
An unlikely hero. I felt a wee bit sorry for him.
Popes Butler
We can’t get Barcelona in the last 16.
Mort