30% interest! Nice one, Newco Rangers, you’ve got yourself a deal there. Suggestions that your business plan has been, and remains, unsustainable and extravagant are patently absurd when you can borrow at the kind of rates a Zimbabwean pimp would get at the height of the ZWD’s recent hyper-inflation episode, although it’s probably worth noting that Zimbabwean businesses are currently borrowing at slightly less than half of what Laxey are charging Newco, solvent ones, anyway.
An administration would be a severe embarrassment to the Newco, less than two years after its incorporation, but in many ways it would be a boon, allowing the club to offload all the high earners and establish a breakeven trading platform.
It is utterly incomprehensible why they have not called in the admins, which itself shines a light on management processes inside the club. No one seems to be asking, “What next?” Getting deeper into hock with a hedge fund is ruinous. Notions that if the loan is turned into shares would be a soft landing for the club are absurd. This is a hedge fund. A HEDGE FUND!! The more shares they have, the more exposure they have, the higher return they will demand.
Need some new players, tough, pay my money. Ticket sales down, that’s disappointing, cut back and pay my money. Got some maintenance work to do, I don’t care, pay my money then see what’s left.
Keep your eye on the sale and leaseback plan, although not until September. They should commission a brass statue of a Newco season ticket holder, touching his toes, with the motto ‘Brace yourself’ below.
The only question left is who will be the complicit front man for season ticket sales this year?
Most people are only beginning to realise the consequences of the events of 2012, or what it means to be a zombie club, walking around, not quite the same as before, with various groups randomly gorging on you. Nothing will ever be as it was. Ever. They should’ve listened, before high-fiving Sir David Murray, then Craig Whyte, then Charles Green. It’s not like we didn’t tell them.
If you’re in the football business, rule number 1 is: Pay your bills. Every other rule, value and aspiration cannot be met without this rule.
Many thanks to everyone who submitted questions for last week’s Celtic Forum. The minutes have been published, and are available here.
If you would like to read the new CQN Magazine, GO HERE to read properly, and for FREE, the graphic below is just a taster.
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mea culpa.
08:03 on 25 February, 2014,
The timing of the Imran Ahmeds case smells a bit to me, could it be another ruse from newco…phew, we now have to go into admin due to the nasty imran..The hunchbacks would swallow it.
hoopybhoy,
Would that sheepshaven place no be full of Dons fans anyway :O).
Morning Lhads
You can be sure, that as we speak, the sleekit ones and their familiars are stirring the cauldron of corruption.
Rules will be bent, broken, and trampled underhoof, it will be so blatant, that it will defy rational explanation.
But…..it wont be a surprise.
No matter what form they take, be it a tentacle squirming mass, or 11 halfwit bigots, they will be where they want to be shortly, at our expense.
So….id forget about jelly and ice cream, and instead, take plenty of ice cold showers, maybe that would wake some of us up.
Why is it so difficult to understand, that sectarianism and bigotry is institutionalised in Scotland….Its so clear, that its transparent.
You cannot beat a rigged game.
And to make matters worse….our so called custodians take every opportunity, to help bigots who hate us, by trying to resurrect the old firm in some capacity, and by tugging the forelock to hun churnalists.
Honestly, this is one of the most bigoted countries in Europe.. the blatant refusal of the authorities to tackle sectarianism and corruption in Scotland, speaks volumes.
Riddled with bigotry and corrupt to the core.
And of course, they see it as a right to cheat, because that’s the way it’s always been.
So, sevco might fold, but the next face of the beast, will be just as nasty and vile.
Honest mistakes, you aint seen nothing yet.
HH
Its full on sun here in Lower Saxony ,morning champions.The huntertainment is full on as well.Nobody can accuse them of not giving value for their poond…..hunbelievable but awfy braw…..over to you m,luds………… braw
Albums to and from work;
The Stones ‘Sticky Fingers’
Melodys Echo Chamber ‘Melodys Echo Chamber’
Fred… I did make me chuckle when I found it…. Thought it would be quite appropriate! haha
You join us with 10mins to go here of admin 2-a lively contest so far-but it looks like they are bringing on a sub here-yes its gloves off now- looks like its Ahmad coming off the bench–lets see what impact he can have on the game… can he be a gamechanger at this late stage?..this could be interesting…..
murdochbhoy
07:47 on
25 February, 2014
Good morning CQNers,
A poll currently under way in the Belfast Tele about whether NI should play a Euro home international match on Sunday 29/0315 records 75% in favour of it proceeding.
Things are changing after all.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/poll-windsor-park-gets-first-sunday-game-protests-feared-over-euro-2016-home-qualifier-30035878.html
—-
Always sceptical about online polls. I would suspect support is much lower among people who turn up to watch the wee statelet.
Id say that one possible scenario is the following: Ahmad presents his case, but is accused of denigrating the good name of sevco….you know the rest.
Its as easy as that, sling your hook ahmad, you are getting nothing, and watch yer back.
HH
HOOPYBHOY
It gets great reviews,though I’ve only been in it once-too fond of The Doric Arch at Euston Station.
http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/34/34509/Sheephaven_Bay/Camden
Hoopybhoy.
There’s a good chance the sheephaven bay at mornington crescent will be showing it.
Maybe also the cock tavern at euston.
The marquis of granby has been sold and is now a gastro pub. No celtic connection any more.
There’s talk of an o’neils in Holborn that shows the games.
Last but not least the Irish centre in Wimbledon home to the Wimbledon csc is where I’ll be watching.
Hail hail.
pedrocaravanachio67
07:24 on 25 February, 2014
Is this the straw that breaks the camel’s back…?
Another possible scenario: Ahmad presents his case, but loses, and is later thrown down a marble staircase then chibbed by two mystery assailants.
HH
Why do I find myself agreeing with nearly everything Kevjungle posts?
Aff oot….
Lord Nimmo Smith.
He was not misled.
He was set up ( deliberately or consequently ) by the terms of reference applied to his commission.
The equivalent of a surveyor being asked to report on woodworm infestation ( and nothing else ) in a house devoid of woodworm but riddled rotten with wet rot , dry rot and subsidence…
Warm and sunny -way down south
E2 Where an Insolvency Event occurs during a Season, the 15 points deduction shall be applied immediately to take effect in the current Season.
E3 Where an Insolvency Event occurs during the Close Season the 15 points deduction shall apply in respect of the immediately following Season, such that the relevant Club starts that immediately following Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.
Where an Insolvency Event or in the event that such Insolvency Event is part of an Insolvency Process that process, continues and/or is subsisting during a second or later Season then, for each such second or later Season, during the whole or part of which such Insolvency Event or Insolvency Process is continuing and/or subsisting, the Club concerned shall be deducted 15 points and shall start each such second or later Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points.
E5 Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different Member, suffers or is subject to an Insolvency Event which results in a deduction of points in terms of these Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event suffers or is subject to a further Insolvency Event which is not part of the same Insolvency Process as the Insolvency Event then suffered, the points deduction applicable in terms of Rules E1 in respect of that second or further Insolvency Event, shall be 25 points with the 15 points in Rules E2 and E3 being 25 Points.
E6 For the purposes of Rules E1 to E5 (inclusive) all references to a Club taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event and/or an Insolvency Process as well as including the owner and operator of a Club taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event and/or an Insolvency Process shall, if the Board so determines having regard to (i) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League; (ii) the reputation of the League; and (iii) the relationship between such owner and operator and the Group Undertaking concerned, also include any Group Undertaking of such an owner and operator taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event and/or an Insolvency Process.
E7 The Secretary shall, on behalf of the League, give written notice to a Club, which is subject to a points deduction in terms of Rules E1 to E5 (inclusive) of each such points deduction.
E8 A Club may appeal against a deduction of points in terms of Rules E1 to E6 (inclusive)
Does that mean that if The Rangers do go into Admin this season and don’t come out of it before the start of the next season, then they will begin that season too having being deducted 15 or 25 points?
SOUTH OF TUNIS
And not much helped by the eejit Bryson (?) wrt registration.
However,that fails to explain how he arrived at the conclusion that no sporting advantage was gained.
sipsini
08:29 on 25 February, 2014
mea culpa.
08:03 on 25 February, 2014,
The timing of the Imran Ahmeds case smells a bit to me, could it be another ruse from newco…phew, we now have to go into admin due to the nasty imran..The hunchbacks would swallow it.
…………………………
You may be right that it could suit newco but the case for Ahmed looks unarguable to me. Newco have just recently explained their lack of funds and having secured £1.5m it seems reasonable for Ahmed to say to a judge, please ring-fence half that amount to cover my costs/award if it be successful.
South Of Tunis
earlier…….
An excellent analogy.
Time to help the local economy,methinks.
Aussie Tims –
Aberdeen v Celtic live on Setanta Wednesday morning.
the green man
08:34 on 25 February, 2014
The times they are a-changing…….I have a dream ……..their numbers are dwindling ….some are moving on……imo
Good Morning Tims everywhere
I am still looking for three tickets for tonight which I can pick up anywhere in Aberdeen
Pat
The only thing that bothered my conscience re this mornings ‘ring-fence’ thing..
…was the fact that the boul’ Awwy was covering it……
Have to be careful………
Jackanory?
Big Nan:
I wouldn’t blame people if they thought Scottish Football, and the Scottish judiciary, and the Scottish Tax Payers, were being led a mesmerising, merry dance by the spivs, with a wee masonic nod and a wink by Scottish Football, and the Scottish Judiciary, and the Scottish Media. I wouldn’t blame them at all.
67Heaven
They remain….they are still here.
They can get away with anything they like, without question.
They have a major influence through their placemen, handshakes all round.
You know fine well how they operate.
They are going nowhere.
HH
Good Morning one and all.
I would guess that it is over a year since I have written anything at all about the Rangers Tax Case, the FTT decision and, obviously, the appeal by HMRC to the UTT.
However, the time is right for a recap and a reiteration of where I think this will go.
HMRC were supremely confident of winning at the FTT — possibly too confident — and I believe that the arguments that were put forward by their council yesterday reflect that their then counsel ( I understand they have a different advocate in to bat with the appeal ) did not place enough emphasis on certain aspects of their case ( though he did make the salient points ) and that the judges who made the majority decision misdirected themselves in law and therefore reached an incorrect legal conclusion.
Further, it is clear that the HMRC counsel has focused on the brevity and narrowness of the majority decision and has spelled out right from the very start of his submissions that he is critical of — or at least finds it odd — that the majority chose not to assess the quality of the evidence provided by the various witnesses, unlike Dr Poon who effectively slaughtered the credibility of the Murray camp witnesses.
Further, as he proceeds today, the HMRC counsel will also point out that, perhaps somewhat unusually, the majority judges did not disassociate themselves from the assessment of the evidence made by Dr Poon ( indeed they rather benignly say that certain aspects of that evidence gave them difficulty ) thus leaving Poon’s conclusions as to reliability and credibility unchallenged and effectively a matter of record.
This particular criticism is behind the very early suggestion that at the very worst the matter should be referred back to the FTT for a fresh hearing, thus facing those witnesses to repeat their evidence and of course face further cross examination.
However, that is not the main thrust of this appeal.
In the majority decision, the two judges who found in favour of the Murray group almost exclusively concentrated on the concession from HMRC that the trusts that were set up in Jersey for the benefit of the players, and the loans made by those trusts to those same players or their family members, should be regarded as real and legal, and should not be looked upon as a sham or a series of sham transactions which were of no legal effect.
Having effectively asked the tribunal to accept that the trusts and the loans were real, the rest of the HMRC argument seems to have been lost or ignored by the two judges and as a result they concluded that if there were real trusts and real loans then there should be no tax payable as you do not pay PAYE or NIC on a loan. No one does that and so these footballers etc should be no different.
Dr Poon on the other hand takes the view that notwithstanding the concession by HMRC, any examination of what really happened here shows that the trusts were completely false and that the loans were never loans at all but were merely a mechanism whereby the beneficiaries received part of their contractual earnings in a manner which attempted to avoid the tax which would otherwise have been due and payable by law.
Two focused on the concession by HMRC and concluded that this took precedence over all other evidence while one ignored it and looked at all of the other evidence — and thereafter reached a conclusion which strangely the other two did not disagree with in terms of her assessment of the evidence which they chose to ignore.
At appeal, HMRC will still insist that for them to succeed the court or tribunal does not need to find that the trusts and loans were in fact shams ( an argument assisted by the recent Aberdeen Asset Management decision ) BUT their counsel will place a far greater emphasis on the source of the funding for any trust and subsequent loan made to the players.
The argument will be that these players received the money ( in whatever way , shape or form ) as a direct result of their contract of employment as there were numerous signed written documents that obliged Rangers Football Club to make payment of monies ( whether by way of loan, salary or gift is irrelevant ) to the player or his nominees all as part of the contractual arrangement between player and club.
Accordingly, whether the money ends up in a trust, or being sent to the player’s granny or his mammy and then lent to the player, gifted to the player or even put on the favourite in the 1:30 at Ayr Race course at the behest of the player is irrelevant. As soon as it leaves the bank account of Rangers FC and goes anywhere for the benefit of the player ( or manager or whoever ) as part of an employment arrangement — then it is subject to tax and NIC.
THAT is their case in a nutshell.
The Murray Group will argue to the nth degree that any such payments were purely discretionary– were not payments that Rangers were obliged to make but merely payments that they CHOSE to make to enhance their employees as the EBT legislation provided.
There are issues with this interpretation — and they are too numerable to go into — but the fact that there are written agreements which seem to prove that the payments were negotiated by the players agents at the very outset would tend to suggest that this “discretionary” argument is pure bunkum as stated ever so clearly by Dr Poon.
Accordingly, if Mr Docherty in any way finds that the majority judges misdirected themselves by focusing too much on the “sham” argument then this may be a relatively short appeal as the matter would then turn on the law other than the strict concession that the two relied upon– and the quality of the evidence that the FTT actually heard.
Of course, as I have said above, the only available assessment of that evidence comes from Dr Poon with the other two judges not dissenting from or overly criticising her conclusions — and so in that case only one of two things can happen.
Either, Dr Poon’s unchallenged assessment of the evidence stands in which case the Murray Group are shafted OR the matter is sent back to the FTT with a direction that the evidence be given again against the background that the “sham” argument is not the be all and end all.
I suspect it is for this reason ( the focusing of the arguments between the parties ) which has lead to the length of the appeal being shortened from 20 days to 10 — but it is only an estimate and the whole affair will take as long as it takes.
As for the change of judge?
Well, one explanation may be that the original judge was a well known tax law practitioner in his day and it just may be that one of the appeal points ( or the counter argument to one of the appeal points ) may turn on an interpretation of a case in which the judge concerned was a participant advancing certain key arguments.
If that was the case, and there was debate about the exact terms of that case or its significance — then it may be the case that the learned Judge took the view that he should recuse himself as he would effectively be being asked to rule on his own case.
I do not know if this is what happened but am merely suggesting that this is one possible explanation.
The outcome of this will be very interesting though — and potentially be very damaging for some.
I hear everything you are saying on administration 2 ………. but, just can’t get my head round why wallis is so categorically stating that there will be no administration 2 …….the public humiliation from that statement alone is horrendous if they do fold…..did they overlook Ahmed..?
bankiebhoy1
09:04 on 25 February, 2014
South Of Tunis
earlier…….
An excellent analogy.
………………….
Disagree, the reasoning that being able to pay players twice what the opposition was paying did not give Rangers a sporting advantage is right out of Alice in Wonderland.
And it was Nimmo-Smith’s reasoning. A former Scottish Law Lord who would drive a coach and horses through any remit imposed on his court when it suited his purpose.
It suited him to do it or he wouldn’t have done it as he did.
Ive always been puzzled by Aberdeen.
Ive been there 3 or 4 times and never seen a sheep anywhere.
Only a lot of grey depressing buildings.
Do they keep the sheep in their basements??
Im Neil Lennon
I enjoyed that, brilliant.
Whitedoghunch
Brian,
Yes got the e-mail and will reply.
South Of Tunis @ 08:59 re: Lord Nimmo Smith.
Although I have no means of checking, my personal suspicion is that the LNS ‘input’ was down to him providing a lodge favour to a fraternal acquaintance.
From my reading of his report, I don’t think LNS has any interest in football whatsoever; he was offered a limited brief (which, if he’s as good a judge as some folk make out and was acting in a purely professional capacity, he should have seen through and either asked for more information or declined the brief). And in the end he provided a remarkably thin report, which reeked of judicial hubris: almost as though he was contemptuous of the report’s readership (and, by inference, those who commissioned it).
A bit like the FTTT, he ‘missed’ a number of glaring opportunities to ask for rudimentary facts to back up blithe assertions; failed to spot glaring conflicts of interest from some of those giving testimony; and failed to seek factual input from a number of key players.
Was this down to his being poorly briefed/set up? Or to a lack of understanding of the subject matter? Or merely convenient, in the knowledge that there was no appeal process?
We’renotparanoidenough.csc
Big Nan – of course it may have suited to him………
Only him and his conscience will know that for sure tho’ eh.
Btw – given his crafty proclivities that can’t be ruled out.
However, the frames of reference in the case allowed him a convenient out and he took it much to every right-minded persons astonishment.
HH
big nan
09:17 on 25 February, 2014
Absolutely spot on……..Scotland’s Shame
Kitalba
Does that mean that if The Rangers do go into Admin this season and don’t come out of it before the start of the next season, then they will begin that season too having being deducted 15 or 25 points?
No this rule only applies to everyone else…
BMCUW.
Only Bryson and his ” superiors ” will know the reality re Registration .
” Sporting advantage ” is a subjective term——-what are the standard criteria ? The team with the ” best” players does not always win , the team with the most expensive players does not always win , the team with the higher wages does not always win, 11 men do not always beat 10 etc etc .——-
Tin pot corrupt dictatorships like legal cover. Nimmo Smith did the job he was commissioned to do . Reminded of the old man down the canyon ——-watching a game and at half time there was an advert featuring Claudia Schiffer ———– he said — ” she looks a beautiful woman but you and I will never find out how her @@@@ smells “
Thm,
That O’Neill’s opposite the Masonic Temple skyscraper you mean?
That one or Sheephaven should b good Hoopybhoy – more Tims in the latter.
Big thanks to Hamilton Tim for his Thomas Cook turn on my behalf cheers:)