My attention was drawn to the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO) blog yesterday, also covered by Joe O’Rourke on the Association site. SCVO Director of Pubic Affairs, John Downie, writes about the “proposed bill on sectarianism” but seems to get muddled in his role as a director of SCVO and using SCVO resources to speak as a Rangers fan; in this instance blaming Catholic schools for sectarianism. How ironic.
Downie writes:
“We’ve previously seen Rangers fans outraged by Celtic goalie Artur Boric crossing himself during games but less bothered – obviously – by about our own players (like Vladimir Weiss last season) doing the same thing.”
“Our own players”! Is SCVO some closed shop where they talk about Artur Boruc as a “Celtic goalie” and Vladimi Weiss as one of our “own”?
So far, so disturbing, but Downie then uses the article to ride to the rescue with:
“The solution:
Personally, as someone who grew up in the East End of Glasgow and lives in the west of Scotland, I agree with some of what Conservative MSP John Lamont says. In my opinion one key causes of sectarianism is Scotland continuing to have separate denominational and non-denominational schools.”
So, if only we didn’t have Catholic schools, players like Artur Boruc and “our” Vladimir Weiss would be able to cross themselves free of harassment. Bizarrely, Downie’s article is subtitled “treating the symptoms not the causes”. I don’t think he was trying to suggest it’s best to treat the symptoms.
The cause of intolerance is not differences in ethnic, religious or sexuality, it is ignorant bigots. It is ludicrous to suggest tackling intolerance by assimilating people into some mono-culture. It’s downright dangerous to blame a minority for intolerance of, and by, them, a sentiment that will only fan the flames of hatred.
The European Examiner reports that various politicians have called for Mr Downie’s removal but SCVO chief exec, Martin Sime, apparently sees nothing wrong in SCVO running a blog discussing one of “our” Rangers players and the “Celtic goalie”, while simultaneously blaming educationally successful faith schools for sectarianism. SCVO has offered a metaphorical No Surrender to resignation calls.
A brief comment for those who don’t live in Scotland…. Attitudes like this once prevailed but are harder to find these days. We are a modern, progressive, society, for the most part.
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Well done to SFTB and to all, indeed
thanks to CRC
legend !
ps – quiz tomorrow night – can we have a few more CFC-type questions ? last time it was mostly general knowledge
:)
Token
only reason, i got that point was cos you mentioned him
haha !
thanks !
thecat
In my memory I have added up his goals from both games as he scored 2 against them in that 8-3 win as well as a hat trick in a 4:1 win.
Good Evening.
The press are full of the aftermath and fall out from the Resignation of Fabbio Capello. Well the English Press are. The Scottish lot just don’t know what to do with themselves. They are caught between Alastair Johnstone calling for some kind of enquiry into the Rangers takeover, or reporting on the consequences and possibilities that flow from an absolutely clinical,skillful and ruthless performance by Celtic at Tynecastle.
All three stories are newswworthy. All three stories miss the point.
In England, The FA decided to act decisively. They removed the captains armband from John Terry on the basis that he could no longer function properly in the role of England captain while awaiting trial on charges of racially abusing another player.
In contrast, The Scottish FA do nothing whatsoever to stem the ever increasing discord that surrounds the fate and the past of Rangers PLC. They announce no investigation into their past management practices, their current financial position, nor their seemingly limitless ability to avoid paying taxes. When they do enquire about something– such as whether the current chairman of Rangers is a fit and proper person– any such enquiry goes on that long that it has its own fully fledged beard!!
Admittedly, no charges have been brought against Rangers or any of their Directors. On the other hand, the appropriate tax authorities have just completed a lengthy set of hearings which have at their heart the allegation that Rangers Directors deliberately set about maintaining a scheme solely designed to avoid taxes over a prolonged period– thus putting every other club in Scotland- of all divisions– at a distinct disadvantage. As for the current chairman, I am not sure what he has to do to demonstrate that he is not a fit and proper person. I could list the currently known corporate anomalies—the disqualification, the circumstances surrounding the disqualification, the lack of accounts, the missed deadlines, the non payment of tax and so on. As I say I could list them—but I am in fear that it could become a lifelong enterprise and to be honest I have other hobbies and things on my bucket list thanks very much.
It seems to me that no matter which association you look at, FA or SFA, both bodies and many if not all of the commentators miss the point.
Can you imagine the likes of Jock Stein, Brian Clough or Jack Charlton allowing an FA committee to decide who will or will not be the captain of the team on the field? Not in a million years. The manager chooses the captain– end of discussion there and then.
All three would have taken command of the Terry situation completely differently. Stein famously jettisoned Tommy Gemmell for his infamous decision to kick Helmut Haller up the arse. Clough, banned and banished players, fans, journalists, chairmen and just about anyone else for various matters and Charlton once announced that he was away for a Guinness rather than even suffer a discussion about who did what. Charlton just decided things and you could like it or lump it. he would be in the pub.
Equally, none of those gentlemen were ever slow to point out perceived injustice and or cheating. Stein had his players tip Inter of their seats for being presumptious, Clough steamed into Don Revie on national TV… and Charlton well he got anyone with the remotest hint of Irish blood to play for him and then.. went back to the pub. Stein openly told his players they had to beat both the opposition and the officials on the park, In the modern age he would have been fined and brought before numerous disciplinary committees for such comments. I,for one, would have paid good money to be a spectator at any such hearing.
The FA, as usual, get their panties in a bunch and decide to show the world that they are the most important Football Association in the world and that not even the manager of the national team has a say on the captaincy if they so choose! They are so keen to act and to do the right thing—apparently.
Meanwhile, in this neck of the woods, it would appear that you can appear in courts more often than Andy Murray and it is of no concern to the SFA. Rangers have been sued by former Directors, former solicitors, Government departments and more than the odd supplier. Allegations have been openly made about Rangers players and Directors being paid through the unlawful use of EBT’s. Such EBT’s were closely linked to the company which was once operated by their former chairman– although he no longer appears to control MIH which has effectively been repossessed by the bank.
Yet, last week the Chief Exec of the SFA – Stewart Regan- tweeted away that everything Rangers was just an allegation– nothing had been proved yet– and so on. Then unbelievably, he tweeted that Celtic and Rangers draw money into the SPL and that one has to look at the overall good and interest of football when looking at sanctions etc.
Lastly he posed the direct question. Do Celtic not need Rangers?
And here again the press miss the point. In fact even Celtic slightly miss the point.
You see I don’t understand at all the argument that Celtic need Rangers.
Historically, there is no case for such an argument. When Celtic started out and played their first game against Rangers Swifts, there was no great rivalry between the teams and clubs. As you all know, the Rangers team and management all came back to St Mary’s hall for a celebration after the game.- Can’t imagine that today– can you?
John Cairney says in his most recent book that it was only when the Rangers club was hijacked by folk coming from Northern Ireland who wanted a “Protestant” club to combat the supposedly Catholic Celtic– that the weird sectarian rivalry started.
Surely nobody in Scotland or elsewhere wants that social malign to remain? So on that basis– where is the attraction of Rangers for Celtic on a social basis? Indeed where is the attraction of Celtic to Rangers on the same basis? Where is the attraction of a Celtic and Rangers for Scotland if they only exist in that social environment?
So Historically and socially there is no need.
Football wise the two have dominated Scottish Football, with all others occasionally coming to the fore. But if Rangers weren’t there, then someone else would challenge and step up or if Celtic were a shoe in for Champions League qualification each year, then a big part of the year and a big part of the club’s outlook would be building a team that can take you as far as possible in that competition.
Also it has always been said that attendances go up when a team is winning. Hibs being relegated is often cited in support of this. Other statistics are thrown up to back this up.
Well if that is the case, why would Celtic’s numbers decrease because of no Rangers? Yet that is what we are told will surely happen, because Celtic fans would get bored without the rivalry with a strong Rangers . Ask any Celtic fan at Tynecastle the other night if they were get bored seeing that type of performance? As far as I recall, Rangers were not playing!
There is great focus on what happens to Scottish Football should Rangers go to the wall. I believe this is the wrong question. What opportunities exist should Rangers suffer insolvency—that is the smart question. For some clubs there is a chance to achieve a status and a position that is not regularly attained. European football is far more likely on a regular basis for some. Young players at provincial clubs will not have their heads turned and leave early because Rangers and Sir Minty’s chequebook came calling—and that was a distinct and detrimental practice for many clubs and indeed players in the past. There are undoubted positives.
For Celtic, I think the opportunities to look at football and the fanbase itself are huge. There is a real opportunity to concentrate in re-engaging with their fans on the non football front. Get players and ex players out to schools and social clubs and focus on community liason. Increase the charity focus at the club—something I know is being looked at already—and capitalise on both the history of the club and its reputation for being a unique club throughout the world.
In short it is time for Brand Celtic. For too long, the commercial mentality of others has determined that where there is a Celtic there is a Rangers and vice versa. That is a situation that has long annoyed the Celtic fanbase. That commercial notion and a desire to be seen to tackle the sectarian problem that exists in some quarters, has meant that in the eyes of the public the clubs are inextricably linked in every way.
Not only does it not need to be that way, but to be honest it should simply not be that way. Certainly not from a commercial view as Celtic has more than enough going for it to stand alone in any market.
Football Associations have a tendency to want to control and influence almost every aspect of a club or a situation—whether they do that by being over active or by being virtually comatose in the face of what appears to be overwhelming irregularity on al fronts.
As a commercial and social entity, Celtic should simply not tolerate the notion espoused by some that they will act for the good of the game and society—and drag Celtic along with them—especially where that means a shoring up and a maintenance of the current Celtic/Rangers rivalry and relationship. It is for Celtic to determine what is good for them, not others, and it is for Celtic to determine in what if any capacity they “need” Rangers—and that is with no disrespect to all decent Rangers fans and those who would choose to run the Ibrox club properly and with integrity.
It is just time to lance a boil.
In this instance it is time to most definitely walk alone—contrary to one of our most famous anthems. When it comes to this all burning question of Celtic and Rangers, then I am in the ourselves alone camp—and yes I know there will be some who latch onto that phrase but it hits the mark in this instance.
WE are Celtic, we were founded for charitable and good purposes, we play football and seek to entertain wherever we go. We welcome all visitors, all opponents on the park and off, and we play within the rules of football and life. We support with a song and a smile, and in numbers throughout every corner of the world.
On that basis, we are at least among the best, if not the best, at what we do.
That should be our message and our marketing strategy in 2012– it is a message and a claim that belongs to no one else!
TC
I think the quiz tomorrow night is all-music from the 70s to the 90s. If he was still with us, Pablo would have walked this quiz. I don’t think I’ve listened to any music after 1982 :-)
No point in studying general knowledge or Celtic stuff.
Careful with the downloads lhads!
You can’t be too careful.
SFTB
Who’s team are you in?
It’s been that long since I’ve been on the quiz but do we still do after music?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I8mWG6HlmU
Glasgow scare comes to a conclusion… jaegerbomb
TC,
glad one of us got it!
:-)
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
hamiltontim
I am in a team of rock dinosaurs with DBBIA and Dick Byrne but we’ve added Sannabhoy as our version of a Youth Policy.
Árd Macha says:
10 February, 2012 at
have you heard from Lurgan 53 lately?
I’ve missed his humour here.
SFTB
An astute signing. Me thinks you’ll stroll it!
I think this might have been the last song I listened to in the late 70s. Could be due a revival- no mention of jelly though
The Ice Cream Song
The Exiled Tim,
if you are still about,got any tips for tomorrows games,
just your best single would do
SFTB,
was Sannabhoy the care in the community addition???
:-)
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
BRT&H
Awesome dude.
i’m trying again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Y3m7fisOU
So… in the big blame race… who killed rangers and who get’s to say it wisnae me, it was David / Craigy’s fault… we’re into the 90th minute and Sir David has brought on a sub. Himself!
He shoots (“I also want to know where Craig got the money from…”)
The £24.4 Million cat’s oot the bag.
The metaphors are burstin at the seams.
The ref looks at his watch and the 4th official will now show us how much extra time is to be played…
and the board says… “it depends if Craigy boy can hold Murray, Johnston, Smith, Traynor and Jackson off until the FTT speaks”… what drama!
hoopy-do, I don’t recall seeing your name on here before? Are you a hun? Back on in a while with my musical offerings! Johnbhoyfrommarscsc! :o)
davythelotion says:
10 February, 2012 at 21:54
Enough of this religious nonsense! What’s everyone giving up for LENT?
——————————-
what’s LENT ?
HT
We’re more likely to need strollers than stroll anywhere. We have a collection of people that listened to music that nobody else was listening to (and often, they were quite right). We might win a quiz on UnPop Music but no chance with Popular Music.
Houl yer wheest says:
10 February, 2012 at 22:56,
No I haven’t. Someone did mention him not being about recently (I have not been on much myself) and I meant to follow it up, but forgot.
I will try and find out if things are ok.
Árd Macha
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K56soYl0U1w
Danny Noonin…
a struggle for all of us at the weekend!
jtsTICks,
ha ha,
as i said in our tavern earlier, i need to change my name!
is this not a bit early for you???
BRT&H
rangers? rangers? We don’t need no stinkin’ rangers.
Eli Wallach CSC :)
I is for…………..
:))
Dont know if its been posted before,
but apparently Sally Mcmoist was behind the glasgow restaurant siege,
all kicked off when the waiter asked him if he wanted Jelly and Ice cream
Dont know if this is old news just logged on tonight but got a text off my son just there, he said that eurosport have done some kinda report/article about thems and totally ripped them and their history apart and how scotland would be better off without them?? Im assuming itsthe sport channel program thing or maybe on their website. Anyof you clever bhoys or ghirls know anything about this or could post a link or something
Ron Bacardi says:
10 February, 2012 at 23:03
davythelotion says:
10 February, 2012 at 21:54
Enough of this religious nonsense! What’s everyone giving up for LENT?
——————————-
what’s LENT ?
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
in my case, effin everything!
Roddybhoy
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/desmond-kane/scotland-miss-rangers-173834275.html
BRTH
In keeping with the theme Voguepunter has started
Epic post, Epic
hh
bjmac
PS You any news from AS?
Roddybhoy
I seriously doubt that would be allowed to happen. Rangers peepil control the media in this country and they conceal so much of the real news from the National/International outlets.
Still about.
These are what I will be doing tomorrow, the weather has played a part mind you.
In order of preferance.
Alloa
Crawley
Blackpool
West Ham
Birmingham
Shef Utd
Shef Wed
Good night fellow Bhoys.
To the wonderful Celtic team for tomorrow:
Focus on the game Ghuys. Put everything else out of your minds. Remember that Terry Butvher hates you because you play for Celtic. Do yourselves justice and remember that you can be Legends in the eyes of the Celtic support.
Hail! Hail!
petec says:
10 February, 2012 at 23:10
I is for…………..
:))
And J is for …
Jello
Looking forward to the game tomorrow.
There will be a great atmosphere inside in CP.