In response to some of the more excitable comments from yesterday it might be worthwhile painting the possible scenarios for Rangers.
No Sale
If Bill Miller is unable to complete the sale (remember, he’s not even paid the deposit and has no intention of doing so), the club will reach the end of the season and run out of money. It will then either expire completely or Duff and Phelps will try to cut a deal with Ticketus to allow Rangers to sell season tickets and retain more of the money than they are currently due.
Rangers could continue to operate in administration for a while to come; Motherwell were in administration for one week short of two years. The club would be unable to afford player wages after they return to normal in 1 June so would be forced to pare the squad back, whether the ban on player registration remains or not.
Miller completes purchase and the SPL vote him into the league
If Miller completes his purchase, as it stands, the SPL board will have discretion to transfer an insolvent club’s share in the league to a Newco. Neil Doncaster has pinned his colours to the mast on this issue, Steve Lomas explained St Johnstone’s willingness to also vote Newco in. Celtic will vote against which means if either Motherwell or Dundee United vote in favour of Newco, they will be allowed into the league.
I have no doubt that both Motherwell and Dundee United will vote in favour of Newco. The SPL will vote to introduce a new procedure for dealing with Newco on Monday but it’s far from clear this proposal will get enough support.
For Miller, there are complications with this issue. He would inherit all football and financial penalties due for Rangers and would also be expected to pay Rangers football debts – around £3.5m.
You can largely ignore the £160k Fit and Proper fines from the SFA but the SPL inquiry into Improper Registration of Players for over a decade will be the biggest charge in the history of British sport. We should be looking at fines commensurate with the financial benefits accrued and multi-year sporting punishments.
If the SPL rule amendments Newco are rejected on Monday (as I expect), there are some who are concerned SPL board will impose lighter penalties than those suggested by Neil Doncaster’s new rules.
Alternatively, Miller could tell the SPL to stuff it and apply to the Scottish Football League. Ally McCoist has already threatened this in response to the already-imposed fines and the notion is popular among Rangers fans I know. If the did this, Newco would not have to pay Rangers football debts and would be subject to no penalties or player registration bans. They could budget for three years of lower-league football and then tool up for the summer of 2015.
You can expect some though talking from Rangers on going to the Third Division in an attempt to spook the SPL into offering limited, single-season penalties.
Among the many unknowns, we can be sure of a few things:
Rangers Football Club, established in 1872, is finished.
Some form of phoenix will happen, if not for next season, then probably by 2013.
The SPL will complete the inquiry into Improper Registration of players, whether Rangers exist or not. If a Newco is granted Rangers SPL share, penalties will be punitive.
Notions that ‘Rangers’ are going to emerge debt-free, strong and able to compete as though nothing has happened is simply nonsense. Their club is dead. They will start a new club, it will either be back in the SPL unhindered in 2015 (or 16) or will be in the SPL next season, heavily burdened for many years to come.
My prediction is for the latter.
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Sky/ESPN deal that’s still to be signed will be removed from the table if Newco is hit by penalties that make them even more uncompetitive than they’ll already be without any penalties.
In fact, the Sky/ESPN deal is dead in all but name. I’m sure they will be phoning Doncaster soon to discuss a much reduced package.
Even if they come straight back into SPL with no penalties, they will struggle to make the top 6 so the guaranteed 4 derby games may not happen.
Headtheball @ 16:26,
That is remarkable, how can they possibly argue that’s a better deal for creditors than an auctioned asset sale?
Something not quite right either that or Alex Thomson was right, these guys just want to get out of Dodge.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 4 May, 2012 at 16:32 said:
Excellent. As a High school teacher I have the privilege of watching this every year. Sometimes I have a wee sniffle, sometimes I cry buckets.
canamalar,
No – there are currently 12 members including Rangers. If they pass their share over to the newco there are still 12.
Ernie, in your world Celtic resign and go to Div3 if necessary. What happens in 3 years when we are about to reenter SPL. Refuse to be promoted cos Newco is there?
I don’t want my team ending up like Belfast Celtic, cos I was in their stadium just yesterday evening. A big supermarket.
SffS
If they stay in administration:
– They get another points penalty each season? 10 points or 25?
– Can they sign players? What was the Cousins fuss all about?
Once again I’m sorry, I know we’ve been over all this months ago but too mucvh has happened since then and I just can’t remember
My Dear,dear,dear,friend.. Rogan.. etc..
Bravissimo!.. Wundervar!.. and Stachey…. tae!
Keep up the Guid Woik,pal.
Ah think ye are .. Tom Terrific!
Kojo
Yer pal…who thinks ye are Swellegant.
Still, Laffin. Of Course!
John Parrot says he understands Stephen Hendry’s decision to quit
John Parrot says he understands Stephen Hendry’s decision to quit
ernie lynch on 4 May, 2012 at 16:30:
“A heavily penalised newco huns would be no opposition. Celtic would be rampant. There would be no competition. Sky won’t pay top dollar for that.”
Sky don’t pay top dollar anyway. This Sky deal with Scottish football is a media myth.
It would be better for all if Sky just disappeared with their lousy deal. Then we can get back to 3pm kick-offs on a Saturday or Sunday and put the people who actually go to the games first.
Seven Fishes Four Steaks on 4 May, 2012 at 16:38 said:
Do you think Bob Kelly should have taken down the Tricolour?
serious questions
just what is the penalty for forfeiting a football match other than a 3-0 defeat
Secondly
Is a UEFA license mandatory for playing top tier football (or even SPL level)
The Sky deal is a red herring always has been, their TV coverage is strangling the game to death if they don’t like what Scottish Football has to offer then let them GTF and it’s Dogshafters job to get the SPL a deal that doesn’t include killing the game in Scotland…
“THEIR CLUB IS DEAD.”
Lordy Lordy, it most surely is……..yes siree!
Pau67
The SFA will ignore the licence requirement? The licence belongs to Rangers Oldco not Rangers Newco.
It is not transfrerable and the process is there for a purpsose – to protect clubs from having cheats enter their midst. That the SFA did not apply old licensing rules is pretty clear but new rules for an SPL licence require the club license to meet UEFA criteria.
Both Oldco and Newco fail to meet the criteria and the only way a licence can be granted is to make a case to UEFA who are the ultimate licence authority and whose rules the SFA clearly state the will apply
Club Licensing
” The Club Licensing system encompasses a National and European regulatory system. Licensing sets out standards and procedures by which clubs will be assessed as a basis for continuous improvement of many aspects of football. It is a modern form of regulation.
National Club Licensing applies to Scottish FA member clubs AND UEFA Club LICENSING APPLIES TO SCOTTISH PREMIER LEAGUE CLUBS. There is also an extraordinary procedure that applies to any member club outside the SPL where that club has sportingly qualified for a UEFA club competition and makes an application to participate in that competition.”
A Licence is non transferrable.
3.3 UEFA Licence
3.3.1 UEFA Licence Awards for Scottish Premier League Clubs (SPL)
A Licence cannot be transferred from one legal entity to another.
If Newco are a legal entity they do not have a licence.
Under UEFA regs any case for an exception can be made, presumably by the SFA to UEFA. How can this process be avoided (apart from nobody asking the question?)
I’m fed up pointing at this issue and if it is a non starter at all then fine but if it is another example of the SFA not doing its job I think it needs highlighting.
I’m not so sure after 3-4 years in SFL, they will arrive back that “tooled up”. Was speaking to a blue nose associate recently. His view was if they can’t repay their debts, they would have to pay some price for the gamble that lost. That would have to be SFL3. His fear was they would lose a generation of support. Never to return. They are only used to a winning rangers. He himself only became a fan in the early minty years. His children look more towards EPL or LaLiga. He felt rangers would always exist in some form, with or without history intact. But they will never be the “force” they have been for 20 years. The early 80’s more like.
Couples who read CQN together – stay together.
Paul67
“The SPL will complete the inquiry into Improper Registration of players, whether Rangers exist or not. If a Newco is granted Rangers SPL share, penalties will be punitive.”
Why are you so certain that Newco will punished for old co’s deeds? The SPL share doesn’t necessarily inherit the former owners past. Like when the share is swapped after promotion and relegation
Doncaster, who according to RTC has privately called this issue trivial, has shown that he will do little if it commercially harms his organisation and his bonus.
You are confident of a punishment commensurate to the crime?
Paul
Allay my fears here please
Define ‘heavily burdened for many years to come’?
By what? Shame? Ten points deduction for a few years?
One season is all it will take. One season of scraping survival with all the help of the MIB. Easy!
Debt free, new investors will be in in after six months.
Point deductions are worth hee haw in this league.
There are huns out there with money who won’t step in now, but will after a few months once the fuss has died down.
A couple of seasons from now another honest mistake will cost Celtic a trophy.
Too late to cry foul, the present opportunity for real justice will all be in the past.
bournesouprecipe on 4 May, 2012 at 16:46 said:
Couples who read CQN together – stay together.
I agree lol lol
Hail hail
bournesouprecipe on 4 May, 2012 at 16:46 said:
Mrs Starry will be very pleased to hear that Bourne, maybe you can explain that one to the CQN widow!
I would rather we did not play them ever again however I also respect the point that many Celtic fans enjoy these games.
Sporting sanctions must be severe and involve the stripping of titles and cups, then financial recompense to other clubs.
I would be over the moon if they just died for good
What are the chances of the fixtures lists being produced in about 5/6 weeks and with ‘Team X’ featuring in the SPL and Div.3? The chances must be reasonably high at this point- just how long do they give it?
Am I right in saying this happened before when the Div.3 fixture list was produced after the demise of Gretna?
HH
Sasa Papac does do walking away
monteblanco on 4 May, 2012 at 16:47 said:
“There are huns out there with money who won’t step in now, but will after a few months once the fuss has died down.”
Are you serious about this, the huns have been on the market for years so where are these wealthy huns hiding??
Getting a bit worried about your train of thought here Mate..
The relationship Celtic are building with the Thai Thims is unique in Scottish football, I expect unique in British football and probably unique in World football.
This is what it means to carry on the torch handed to us by Bro Walfrid all those years ago.
Well done to everyone involved.
Re Ibrokes and murky park .
I seem to remember in one of the first PC with Duff n duffer someone asking what would happen to Ibrokes and murky park and think the answer was the company owning Ibrokes and murky park was not in administration .
Am I barking or does anyone else recall this
Gordon J,
How can that work, until the share is passed, the newco is not a football club. They have no audited accounts therefore cannot pass the first hurdle to become a football club, there are many many fundamental rules being broken here.
It also requires oldco to continue to operate till after any share transaction.
Newco still require audited accounts to get an sfa license, oldco have still not produced audited accounts, the sfa and spl by allowing this are bringing the game into disrepute, which in turn will require uefa intervention.
Sweet :0)
Lifted from Twittttttttttttttttttttermebob
Chris McLaughlin@BBCchrismclaug
Sasa Papac to leave #Rangers in the summer according to the club
And another on bites the dust………………….
And another on bites the dust………………….
And another one gone………………………
BigJoejustLOVINGthis……………..
Ernie, of course not. Rangers should be punished for THEIR crimes. Celtic going to the 3rd division would mean Celtic getting punished for THEIR crimes.
SffS
Green Lantern (((((0))))) on 4 May, 2012 at 16:34 said:
To paraphrase the immortal ( and immoral ) Lili Von Shtupp………………
————————————————————–
That Lili does something for me:O)
So Papac is first to leave then! Interesting couple of weeks coming up methinks.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 4 May, 2012 at 16:32 said:
Good Afternoon,
There is something gloriously satisfying in seeing a whole host of young people, dressed to the nines, celebrating and reflecting on the end of their school career. To see them go from primary school kids to young adults, on the verge of University, college, a trade and a job is just brilliant.
=====================================
wonderful post.
If I can just add one wee comments, its truelly wonderful to know our kids, and the kids of immigrantd all over, can now, mostly go out into that big world after their school days and not be faced with restrictive employment practices and a fair chance at progression.
Its only taken us 120 years to get economic parity for the descendants of the people who built Celtic park on its charitable foundations.
I blame Catholic Schools.
————–
seperately Roy Orbison and friends (elvis costello included) singing Its Over on skyarts1 just now.
===============================
canamalar,
I was looking at the share issue in isolation.
Newco, as you say, is not a football club. Can it qualify for the Share in the SPL? And could it get a UEFA exemption to allow it to get a Club Licence? Unlikely on both I would have thought.
The SFA and SPL wrote their rules thinking that a new club would always start at the bottom. That’s why three years is mentioned several times – it’s how long a new club would take to reach the top flight.
My view has always been that some sort of new club will be formed – and also that it should follow the same route into football as any other new club has.
Headtheball on 4 May, 2012 at 16:26 said:
Rangers players would only move to a Miller Newco if wages were to be maintained. This would be their right under TUPE, a right I doubt Miller will want to honour given his pledge to run the club and a financially stable footing (it is after all players wages that EBTS and Debt fueled, putting them out of business) . Add to that he is American where the concept of workers wages being protected by law is probably alien to him.
It is is a cert that the 5 year contracters will go. Racing cert and they have release clauses to fall back on.
The 3rd Divison with a winning team on low wages will have its attractions to Miller.
BRT&H
Wouldn’t want your way with words, I would be typing all day.
great post as usual.
Starry I am with Monteblanco on this one .
I believe there are investors waiting to step in when the debts are jettisoned .
IMO that is why CW was sourced and why he will not impede the next step in the sting .
The peepil don’t do 2nd best very well and they don’t intend to that is why it is crucial they convince us all that the SPL needs them .Once they are in they will do as they like ,never trust a snake .
Maybe that explains the over the top reaction to the player buying ban .
Paul67
Thanks for the heads up.
Do you imagine that if your prediction comes true that Celtic and Rangers Newco will bargain together for TV rights?
What about shirt sponsorship the year after next ? Joint too ?
How would you see the footballing landscape change from moving from a competitive league set up to a franchise ?
Do you think that seeking assurances regarding Old Firm relegation outside the top 6 will be saught after or will the Scottish Hunseen eye still be around to smooth these matters more ?
I think that due to the dual contract issue that a solution will need to be found to ensure both Old Firn entities stay within 5 places of one another.
Scottish football has a lot to go through soon
UEFA FFP no I’m not being funny but it is hilarious
SPL FFP even funnier
NEWCO and what happens there
VOTING Rights
League reconstruction
I suspect it could be a very tough. environment with lots of unkowns to try and sell an unknown product in while subsidising Newco hun with INSUFFICIENT punishment. While also being allowed to flail a dead horse as much as we like and to be truly thankful for it.
All these proposed changes in Governance especially as been seen as being so weak
Its going to be an interesting 40 days.
I hope for my sake that you are well wrong.
HH
ibleed / starry
It’s worse when your partner knows your CQN password.
This manifests itself regularly with some of my more ghirly posts.