In response to some of the more excitable comments from yesterday it might be worthwhile painting the possible scenarios for Rangers.
No Sale
If Bill Miller is unable to complete the sale (remember, he’s not even paid the deposit and has no intention of doing so), the club will reach the end of the season and run out of money. It will then either expire completely or Duff and Phelps will try to cut a deal with Ticketus to allow Rangers to sell season tickets and retain more of the money than they are currently due.
Rangers could continue to operate in administration for a while to come; Motherwell were in administration for one week short of two years. The club would be unable to afford player wages after they return to normal in 1 June so would be forced to pare the squad back, whether the ban on player registration remains or not.
Miller completes purchase and the SPL vote him into the league
If Miller completes his purchase, as it stands, the SPL board will have discretion to transfer an insolvent club’s share in the league to a Newco. Neil Doncaster has pinned his colours to the mast on this issue, Steve Lomas explained St Johnstone’s willingness to also vote Newco in. Celtic will vote against which means if either Motherwell or Dundee United vote in favour of Newco, they will be allowed into the league.
I have no doubt that both Motherwell and Dundee United will vote in favour of Newco. The SPL will vote to introduce a new procedure for dealing with Newco on Monday but it’s far from clear this proposal will get enough support.
For Miller, there are complications with this issue. He would inherit all football and financial penalties due for Rangers and would also be expected to pay Rangers football debts – around £3.5m.
You can largely ignore the £160k Fit and Proper fines from the SFA but the SPL inquiry into Improper Registration of Players for over a decade will be the biggest charge in the history of British sport. We should be looking at fines commensurate with the financial benefits accrued and multi-year sporting punishments.
If the SPL rule amendments Newco are rejected on Monday (as I expect), there are some who are concerned SPL board will impose lighter penalties than those suggested by Neil Doncaster’s new rules.
Alternatively, Miller could tell the SPL to stuff it and apply to the Scottish Football League. Ally McCoist has already threatened this in response to the already-imposed fines and the notion is popular among Rangers fans I know. If the did this, Newco would not have to pay Rangers football debts and would be subject to no penalties or player registration bans. They could budget for three years of lower-league football and then tool up for the summer of 2015.
You can expect some though talking from Rangers on going to the Third Division in an attempt to spook the SPL into offering limited, single-season penalties.
Among the many unknowns, we can be sure of a few things:
Rangers Football Club, established in 1872, is finished.
Some form of phoenix will happen, if not for next season, then probably by 2013.
The SPL will complete the inquiry into Improper Registration of players, whether Rangers exist or not. If a Newco is granted Rangers SPL share, penalties will be punitive.
Notions that ‘Rangers’ are going to emerge debt-free, strong and able to compete as though nothing has happened is simply nonsense. Their club is dead. They will start a new club, it will either be back in the SPL unhindered in 2015 (or 16) or will be in the SPL next season, heavily burdened for many years to come.
My prediction is for the latter.
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Sasa Papic
There were 10 blue bottles sitting on the wall.
If one blue bottle should accidentally fall, there will be nine blue bottles sitting on the wall.
Soon there will be no blue bottles at all.
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on 4 May, 2012 at 16:52 said
the SFA and SPL bringing the game into disrepute. :) Mind if I tweet that ;)
bournesouprecipe on 4 May, 2012 at 17:00 said:
ibleed / starry
It’s worse when your partner knows your CQN password.
This manifests itself regularly with some of my more ghirly posts.
Yes,,,i feel your pain,,,my partner( female BTW) has in the past logged onto CQN without my permission lol
Hail hail
bournesouprecipe on 4 May, 2012 at 17:00 said:
ibleed / starry
I use my wife name as my password.
I think it is important that she is involved.
Kojo, me neither.
whitedoghunch, you’re welcome.
jockcfc, just for you:
Rangers Football Club, established in 1872, is finished.
Chairbhoy, yes, an excellent idea for a museum.
ernie lynch, I admire your energy on subjects which have enormous propensity to split the Celtic support but for you (and you only, because I value your sincerity, no one else has ever received this offer from me).
If you have any serious intentions or issues with Celtic take me up on my offer to try to get you in front of the people who make the decisions. Surely all this angst is worth actually doing something about it, not just sitting back and complaining?
If you would rather do nothing and you’re happy complaining, let me know and I’ll stop trying to resolve the concerns you have.
This is Celtic we are talking about here, surely nothing can be more important?
Auldheid, not sure that’s the case, but even if it is, the answer is yes (but it isn’t).
celticinthesun, Doncaster confirmed Newco inheriting Rangers share would inherit their punishments.
monteblanco, that’s for the SFA nad SPL to decide but I would expect punishments extending many years into the future.
Awe Naw, you’re welcome. No to most of your questions.
Starry Plough
You think there are no huns with serious money?
The reason they have stayed back is because the huns are a black hole at the moment. Once they are ‘cleaned up’ it’s a different ball game.
Seven Fishes Four Steaks on 4 May, 2012 at 16:54 said:
”Ernie, of course not”
What would have happened to Celtic if the SFA hadn’t backed down in the face of Bob Kelly’s threat?
fergus slayed the blues on 4 May, 2012 at 16:59 said:
Well if they are mate I’m sure they will be of the high standard of their previous money men, a collection of shyster, thiefs, rockets and corner boys wanted half across the world.
If they are allowed to ditch their debts and continue which I don’t believe will happen, then let these rich huns step forward and play Monoply at the Fitbaw as the Fitbaw will be well and truly finished by then.
I’ll be surprised if they can mount any kind of a challenge in a football sense next season at all.
Sp
Auld Neil Lennon heid
I thought I heard a while ago that TUPE rules only guaranteed pay and conditions for your first two years in a newco?
I take your point though that the players won’t necessarily automatically ‘belong’ to Windy Miller.
Kojo16.20
I m going to have to borrow your word Miasma .. A belter if I may say..
I shall casually place that tonight as I go about my chores ..
HH
Paul,
I can’t fathom out how a debt-crippled company can transfer its assets to a newly formed company and leave the debt behind in the old company – this is what Bill Miller is proposing. For the sale of the club (transfer of assets to Newco) to happen then Craig Whyte needs to agree to sell his shares. D&P have declared CW as an irrelevance and this is the bit I find most beffudling – how can CW’s shares be transfered against his will?
Jim Traynor tried to explain that by transfering the assest to Newco, all that is left behind is debt. CW owns 85% of Oldco which is worthless (85% of nothing is nothing) but will not have any shareholding in Newco – therefore he would be an irrelevance.
I know, it serves me right for listening to that corpulent buffoon, but he did get me wondering if there was any possibility of what he said actually happening.
Surely not?
Starryhope
Interesting comments by Steve Lomas.
On BBC Alba last night when asked what he thought of Neil Lennon he said he was like Marmite, but didn’t elaborate.
Now Mr Lomas was a team mate of Lenny’s at international level, first time I’ve heard an ex-team mate of NL’s give something other than fulsome praise.
Stole this from someone:
To Renew Or Not To Renew?
In my opinion Celtic fans who have the opportunity to go to Paradise are blessed. Some of my greatest memories in life are from Celtic Park on a Saturday or the magnificent European games.
I will never forget the nostalgia when Craig Gordon dropped the ball in the last minute of the top of the table clash against Hearts. I won’t forget the dramatic turn around when Celtic signed the biggest name in football, Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink, and he scored on his debut against Hibernian. No one should forget the moment Lubo Moravcik plucked the ball from the sky with an elegant touch by his back side.
Spending time away from Celtic Park makes you appreciate it more. You miss the walk to the ground up London Road surrounded by green, white and the witty flag stalls. You miss looking at the cars trundling up the road wondering to yourself: “who is stupid enough to drive up here at this time?” Even the smell becomes appealing. A mixture between burger vans and police horses doesn’t sound enticing, but it signifies that you are close. Celtic Park, Paradise, Parkhead is a five senses experience, if you’re lucky enough to have all five then good for you. But having just one is enough to appreciate how special it is.
To me there is more reason to renew your season ticket more than ever. We have longed for an exciting team who plays good football and scores goals since the early O’Neill days. Celtic under Strachan was often a drab affair saved only by the magic by Naka and McGeady on the wings. Even though we were winning it wasn’t always poetry in motion. Then Strachan left and we were given Tony Mowbray. He changed the system and the playing staff dramatically In the beginning I was encouraged at this perceived new exciting brand of football. However it turned out that it was a team that had as much courage and heart as the wizard of oz characters.
Cue Neil Lennon and the bringing back the thunder. He brought in players that had back bone and competitiveness, Kayal and Wanyama supply crunching tackles in abundance. This is a young team brimming with confidence and desire that literally have the world at their feet. Next season again we have the pleasure to watch a group of Celtic players led by true Celtic men: exactly what’s on our Christmas list.
So the question on alot of peoples lips is “what if there is no Old Firm games?” I for one don’t see what the the fuss is all about? Sure I’d miss them, but I’m looking forward to missing them. The potential of not having a Rangers game is exactly what some of us “internet bampots” been dreaming about for years. I challenge you to find one Celtic fan that hasn’t laughed at jelly and ice cream. Find one Celtic fan that hasn’t played a part in any party games when they die. Having no Old Firm game is a wonderful thing. No more shouts from the living room as you walk out the door to “be careful” or “take care”. I know my mother will breathe a sigh of relief.
Scottish football has transformed numerous times in the past, Aberdeen were once the team to beat. Dundee United had previously set the target. Celtic have played football to make you smile and Rangers have been champions. There has always been a match and a rival the keeps you off your seat. Having a season ticket is not just about Old Firm games; it’s about going to see the team you love every other week.
This year we mark our 125th year as a football club and Celtic family. I wasn’t born for the centenary year but I’m sure it was a phenomenal season stopping Rangers like that. This is the second biggest landmark in time that we have achieved and we should vigorously celebrate it. I know a few people down Govan way that would love a history.
I say renew your season tickets. Next year we can continue the party and have the opportunity to share it with Europe’s elite, let our reputation blossom further. If you’re not excited about a rainy New Year game against Inverness, then at least you get first dibs on a Champion’s League ticket!
Auldhied,
Fire in pal.
Paul67
So it will truly only do this one time then for Rangers. Question 3
Even more disgusted by Celtic dragging us into this overt “massive taxdodge” scam if thats the case.
Have a good weekend bhoys
HH
HH
ernie lynch at 17:06
What would have happened to Celtic if the SFA hadn’t backed down in the face of Bob Kelly’s threat?
We would have went out of business and there would be no Celtic.
What makes you so sure the SPL/SFA will back down to any threat made now?
Mort
monteblanco on 4 May, 2012 at 17:05 said:
“Once they are cleaned up” funny enough Paul Clark said that last night to be confronted by Alec Thomson.
Over 130 million pounds of debt is a lot of cleaning up to do!!
Not convinced that rich hun loving hun would stand by and watch his club die rather than come forward with some kinda plan..
All this without the BTC, could be a long hot summer for the lovers of the hun..
Paul67,
Thanks for the reply.
I hope, but am unsure, that Doncaster will punish the newco Govan Dodgers if that means harming his product. The SPL needs a STRONG Rangers after all.
Does anyone know how this will pan out?
Do the SPL put forward their punishment first, then the SFA, then UEFA?
Do they all do separate investigations or trust the SPL’s findings?
Two transfer windows, thats it!
20 years of cheating is all forgotten as long as they go two transfer windows without a signing. The money is not an issue once newco are in, they have been on a shoestring for twelve months already, docked ten points and cantered second spot. The next 24 months will fly by and then they will be back, uglier, more bullish with a chip on their shoulder the likes you have never seen!
Miller, Whyte, HMRC will all be a memory 24 months from now, as will the debt.
Newco in the SPL is not an option Celtic can settle for. The smelly stuff will hit the fan for us 24 months from now when people wake up and realise it.
BRTH,
I went to my own son’s final assembly this morning and it was a very emotional occasion – more than i would have anticipated. Maybe i am just getting sentimental in my middle age.
Anyway, we live in Greater London and have done for all of his life. But although born and raised in England, he is still a big Tim, more than happy to put up with the ribbing from his Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool supporting mates because he knows that he supports a team that is more than a mere football club.
We only get up for one game a season – maybe we will improve on that as he gets older and the school calendar no longer dictates. It’s a nice feeling to know that I will be passing the torch just in the same way that my old dad did for me.
Hail hail to all those young Tims out there who will be making their way in the world. Our generation haven’t exactly left them a great economic legacy – but Celtic will always be there, thank God.
Mort on 4 May, 2012 at 17:13 said:
”ernie lynch at 17:06
What would have happened to Celtic if the SFA hadn’t backed down in the face of Bob Kelly’s threat?
We would have went out of business and there would be no Celtic.”
And you think Bob Kelly did the right thing?
Sasa Papac.
Lovely memory of him felled by Mark Wilson’s thunderbolt, another of him lying prone while Wilson sclaffed in the winner over his banjaxed body.
Welling up.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 4 May, 2012 at 16:32 said:
Fantastic post, (as always) I had no idea there were 1500 at the school, I thought it was much less, incredible work being done there, lifts the heart.
Starry
I heard TFPLG ranting that if they (sfa/spl) are intent in making us non competitive in the spl ,we would be better just going down to div3 .
Even after all they have done TFPLG still wants to spend big to beat us to the title .
If they are welcomed back to the top table by their friends they will demand to be challenging ,how many more honest mistakes will that take .
When Minty was selling and spent many a day on the dance floor any admirers would tap him on the shoulder but when it came to the end of the night and minty informed them that it may cost 50m + to get his coat from the cloakroom he could not get a lumber .
IMO they admirers are still going to the jigging only this time murray has gone to the dancing without a coat .
This is the second time this week you have got my attention
A wondeful piece – a true reflection of the Celtic community
And congratulations to your son
Hopefully my own will Graduate from Southampto this year
Nothing more important than your family – and Celtic are part of that
Hail Hail 67 ECW
Anyone seen this? http://www.colinhendrylies.com/
ernie lynch at 17:17:
Yes, had he taken it down he would have been pandering to bigots.
I see what you are trying to do but the two situations are not even close.
Mort
Chairbhoy- Neil and Steve Lomas weren’t just team mates, they were room mates as well on foreign trips with the team.
I have heard him speak very warmly about Neil Lennon in the past.
[of course he could have elaborated, and it was then edited out!]
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 4 May, 2012 at 16:32 said:
The post I left @ top of page 3 was in response to youe piece
Hail Hail 67ECW
Chairbhoy on 4 May, 2012 at 17:10 said:
Interesting comments by Steve Lomas.
—————————————–
from memory steve lomas and neil lennon were room-mates at man city in their early days, and are great mates.
i think he just meant “you either love him or you hate him” which seems to be fair comment. he never implied he hated him though.
monteblanco on 4 May, 2012 at 17:16:
“20 years of cheating is all forgotten as long as they go two transfer windows without a signing. The money is not an issue once newco are in, they have been on a shoestring for twelve months already, docked ten points and cantered second spot.”
The Huns cantered to second spot with a squad that cost almost £40m to assemble – a considerably more expensive outlay than all of the teams that finished below them. Virtually all that squad will be gone by the start of next season – let’s see how this new football club does with a pool of youngsters at their disposal, regardless of the league they play in.
Paul67,
No matter how burdened they may be for years to come, the very idea that they will continue to exist even another day makes me sick. We need to use every bit of pressure and influence we can muster to try and encourage the rest to show some moral fibre. Otherwise, the game’s a bogey. Cheating on an outrageous scale will be rewarded. Scandalous.
My dear,dear,dear,friend . ArranMoreBhoy @ 17.09
Hiya, Pally?
Nice talking..
Take it. it’s Yours..
Ah hiv A Million Ithers..
Ye didnae Know..or . mebbe ye did. That . Ah am hiv Ah Hiv
a Sheepskin and Liberty Bodice fae McGill.. Ah hiv an Honors ..in English.
Kin Ye no tell ?
Any wey
The Followin’…is Pure Speculation.. but, Ah luv tae dae it!
In the Following Months…
Ah Predict… Naismith, Wull Ankle doon the Road.
Dae ye blame him?… if he stays.. he faces .. an Impecunious Future.. Loyalty, wullnae Buy yer next Mercedes or Provide the kinda Life Style That yr hiv become Accustomed.
Na. Naismith, wulll Leave..
Ah Predict…. Davis wull.. Follow Naismith’s Example..and fur the very same Reasons.
Ah Predict.. Lafferty wull. tae.
Ah Predict.. Coisty wull Leave.
Heck.. He wull hiv nothing tae keep him fae No..
No that he jist fun oot. that Dusty..May Be.. Ah Say May Be.. a .. Taig!!
and that is no someone that he could Be expected tae . well.. live wi..as his Boss..
Right.??
Whtitaker. Tae.. Yep. why no.?
Money ,is Whit Everybuddy wants.. Loyalty, and Two Dollars wull only buy ye a Two Dollar Poor Boy Sandwich… where Ah come Fae!
Speculation is Fun.. Ye should Try It.. !
Kojo
yer pal. who likes ye.. already.
Still, Laughin’ like Goodoh!
DBBIA-Unashamedly (hope thats a word btw) ‘ tears in the eyes when the Thai Tims were on,special smiles on their faces.More than just a Club.
Chairbhoy,
The theory is that – rather like beige chinos – you either love or hate Marmite.
The comment from Lomas in relation to Lenny was I think 100% accurate.
DontB & Jock Tamson,
Thanks for that, guess if you knew that you would see where he was coming from.
Hail! Hail!
Paul67 on 4 May, 2012 at 17:04 said:
So it is just another rule being ignored or played down? Integrity sacrificed on the altar of commercialism? The SPL rule because on this occasion the SFA choose not to?
If you cannot enter UEFA competition without a licence to do so how can you play in the SPL without one?
I understand the cynicism but rules and regs are the mortar that hold any enterprise together, chip away at that mortar and the enterprise will crumble.
Having said that I’d settle for:
a) a Rangers team so weighted by its debt to football in terms of money owed and fines placed on it, its wage bill would have to be at least halved.
b) a three year ban from UEFA competitions.(a given as Newco)
c) titles since 2000 when ebts started taken away on unfair advantage grounds.
d) same titles and trophies removed on improper registration grounds going as far back as provable.
e) outside football’s control but Ticketus arguing that since Newco are Oldco in football terms they are entitled to their share of any ticket income.
f) An external enquiry is commisioned by UEFA to look at failings in governance at both bodies with recommendations to address them.
g) to keep TET happy) a new professional accountabl refereeing service!
All of the issues arising need addressing (and the redtops really need to have a right good look at themselves. )
and after all that Newco will be forever known as The Glasgow Taxdodgers.
Does anyone know why the print version of the CQN magazine is sold in dollars and not sterling? Is $14 roughly the price for it?
SPF