In response to some of the more excitable comments from yesterday it might be worthwhile painting the possible scenarios for Rangers.
No Sale
If Bill Miller is unable to complete the sale (remember, he’s not even paid the deposit and has no intention of doing so), the club will reach the end of the season and run out of money. It will then either expire completely or Duff and Phelps will try to cut a deal with Ticketus to allow Rangers to sell season tickets and retain more of the money than they are currently due.
Rangers could continue to operate in administration for a while to come; Motherwell were in administration for one week short of two years. The club would be unable to afford player wages after they return to normal in 1 June so would be forced to pare the squad back, whether the ban on player registration remains or not.
Miller completes purchase and the SPL vote him into the league
If Miller completes his purchase, as it stands, the SPL board will have discretion to transfer an insolvent club’s share in the league to a Newco. Neil Doncaster has pinned his colours to the mast on this issue, Steve Lomas explained St Johnstone’s willingness to also vote Newco in. Celtic will vote against which means if either Motherwell or Dundee United vote in favour of Newco, they will be allowed into the league.
I have no doubt that both Motherwell and Dundee United will vote in favour of Newco. The SPL will vote to introduce a new procedure for dealing with Newco on Monday but it’s far from clear this proposal will get enough support.
For Miller, there are complications with this issue. He would inherit all football and financial penalties due for Rangers and would also be expected to pay Rangers football debts – around £3.5m.
You can largely ignore the £160k Fit and Proper fines from the SFA but the SPL inquiry into Improper Registration of Players for over a decade will be the biggest charge in the history of British sport. We should be looking at fines commensurate with the financial benefits accrued and multi-year sporting punishments.
If the SPL rule amendments Newco are rejected on Monday (as I expect), there are some who are concerned SPL board will impose lighter penalties than those suggested by Neil Doncaster’s new rules.
Alternatively, Miller could tell the SPL to stuff it and apply to the Scottish Football League. Ally McCoist has already threatened this in response to the already-imposed fines and the notion is popular among Rangers fans I know. If the did this, Newco would not have to pay Rangers football debts and would be subject to no penalties or player registration bans. They could budget for three years of lower-league football and then tool up for the summer of 2015.
You can expect some though talking from Rangers on going to the Third Division in an attempt to spook the SPL into offering limited, single-season penalties.
Among the many unknowns, we can be sure of a few things:
Rangers Football Club, established in 1872, is finished.
Some form of phoenix will happen, if not for next season, then probably by 2013.
The SPL will complete the inquiry into Improper Registration of players, whether Rangers exist or not. If a Newco is granted Rangers SPL share, penalties will be punitive.
Notions that ‘Rangers’ are going to emerge debt-free, strong and able to compete as though nothing has happened is simply nonsense. Their club is dead. They will start a new club, it will either be back in the SPL unhindered in 2015 (or 16) or will be in the SPL next season, heavily burdened for many years to come.
My prediction is for the latter.
You can buy a hard copy of the new issue of CQN Magazine via Magcloud here.
The graphic below is just for a flick through, to read the magazine go here to it’s dedicated site.
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Hamiltontim, if you’re around. Did you manage to find the link to this week’s TKF Predictor ;-)
http://www.thekanofoundation.com/predictor.html
if celtic vote for a newco entering the spl i will never return to celtic park, i will never spend a penny in the store, i will walk away and i will not return
but
if other clubs allow newco to return via their vote then i will not hold celtic responsible. however, i have a feeling, fans up and down this country will share the same views as me.
of the top of my head i don’t see hib, aberdeen, dundee united or celtic fans just accepting it and moving on, so clubs will be voting against themselves and their own fans. hearts fans will possibly want to see their club showing ambition and a chance to become the second team in scotland. ross county are just up and won’t be getting any t.v money etc… anyway so they are already living within their means.
row z
A constructive post as usual but it’s not a route I’ll be taking.
Uly posted on the last page, I think, that he has made his peace over the entire hun crisis. I’m with that and feel better for it.
My own opinion on the whole thing without reading CQN or listening/reading the MSM, has always been that Scotland would never let them die forever.
However, I’ve found my moods swinging in a metronomic fashion depending on what I was hearing or reading. I’m fed up of it and have come to the resolution that whatever happens shouldn’t and won’t affect my support, financially and vocally, of Celtic.
I still want them dead or heavily burdened for the next 10/15 years. I’m just no longer going to allow it to dictate my emotions.
Always thought Rangers getting demoted was a Celtic fans fantasy regardless of their crimes. Relegating them to Div 3 would only make them stronger in the long run.
Personnelly I would rather see them limping along for years to come. Let them stay in SPL with no team that is a better punishment than relegating them in an office.
3 year European ban.
Titles removed as punishment for EBT’s.
Murray stripped of knighthood.
Players registration ban
These are more realistic punishments.
They deserve years of pain not three years vacation in the SFL scoring goal after goal.
gebhoy is the taxmans tick tocking clock, tick…tock on 5 May, 2012 at 11:49 said:
What is the best bet on the coupon today.
.
G’Day CQN..
Great Superb to Meet DBBIA.. BT..HebCelt (and Daughter) MWD Mini Moonbeams Subterrain &The Battered Bunnet.. In BB’s before the St Johnstone Game.. Good Craic Bhoys..
Dancing with The Green Brigade finally Caught up with Me.. Had a
Day in the House Yesterday..
Also Good to Meet The Blackpool Shammy in The London Road Club after the Game.. Dedicated Hoops that Lot..
Off on a Boat Party down the Clyde with Some Guid DJ’s..
Its. Great Tae Be Hame..
001Bhoy
lennon’s passion on 5 May, 2012 at 11:58 said:
It was a cracking night. Already looking forward to next years.
HH
CRC
Jobo
Thank you my friend but in an act of mockery someone put it up yesterday so I grasped at the chance whilst quietly mumbling that I could do it by myself :-))
Gincher67 on 5 May, 2012 at 11:20 said:
Don’t like the sound of those Magongo Rangers. I’ll be looking out for the KC results. Good luck for the season.
Hail! Hail! The Kibera Celts are here!
MWD,
Indeed, if nothing happens Shooter McGavin is in on this.
ITV London Sky 993 showing FA Cup Final.
MWD-Nice protest BTW.
tommytwiststommyturns on 5 May, 2012 at 11:24:
It certainly was another great night in the company of fellow CQNers, Celtic Supporters and Staff.
Stephen Black, thank you for the ticket my friend.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
stephbhoy on 5 May, 2012 at 12:00 said:
if celtic vote for a newco entering the spl i will never return to celtic park, i will never spend a penny in the store, i will walk away and i will not return.
===============================
Try actually reading the article.
On the face of it, witht eh emotional response, none of us want the Zombie Huns parachute dinto the SPL.
However, if Paul’s on the money, and he usually is, the Zombie Huns in the SPl with CORRECT heavy penalties is probably the best scenario for us.
They would be unable to compete for years, a decade, possibly even facing relegation. Slaughtered by us frequenty, glory-hunting Orcs deserting in their droves.
Whereas a 3rd Div newco Zombie Huns would experience only a couple of yeas of poverty before returning to the SPl debt-free and ready to build.
It’s emotion over reason, here.
I trust the Celtic board will vot ein our best interests and issue an appropriately damning/accurate statement on the entire mess when the time is right, and not before.
stephbhoy on 5 May, 2012 at 12:00 said:
What if Celtic vote against knowing that it is a futile gesture?
What if Celtic could do more than vote against, knowing they could stop it happening, but declined to do so?
oglach
“Our revenge will be the laughter of our children”
Can I ask a question about season ticket prices.
For years now I’ve had 2 seats in the front main stand. These were initially ‘parent and child’ and more recently ‘adult and 17/18’. Last year my package was an affordable £607.
This year if I stay where I am the 2 seats will both be adult prices – £551 each or £27.55 a game. If I were to try to get 2 seats in a different location* can any of you give me an idea of prices elsewhere*
Thanks
* – no jokes – Celtic Park seats only!
Gincher67 on 5 May, 2012 at 11:20 said:
A huge well done to you and your colleagues.
I watched the short video on the team that was shown at the POTY and was very impressed. We do not know how lucky we are!
The names on the Division one league are fantastic and would be at home in Scotland!!
“Magongo Rangers ” could be a Newco in the SPL.
“Bidco United ” could be an Oldco in the SPL.
“Sparki Youth” could be a fledgling side in SFL Div 3.
“Administration Police” could be a Strathclyde Polis and Referees eleven.
Seriously, congrats on the victory today and don’t be such a stranger here.
HH
Lennon’s passion,
I like Chelsea at 2.59 on Betfair, Liverpool are gash, i think thats free money mate,
Canny make the morra you goin on the “Red Flash” am still paying back shift swaps from Ibrox and Rugby park.
If they bampots get back in the SPHell as a newco, thats the away games finished for me, Season cards renewed regardless though….
hail Hail
gebhoy
MWD
Fanbloodytastic!!
That’s another cyber double malt sent over!
Cheers
HH
Kevtic @ 12:01
Can see your point of view, but if any zombie outfit was to remain in the SPL then they WOULD continue to win trophies, despite doing so without ability or merit (same old same old).
It can’t be allowed to happen. Well, it isn’t allowed to happen.
Courtsey of Henry Clarson.
The ‘myth’…..the manager who spent more than any other manager in both of his spells at the bigotdome.
3. Walter Smith alter Smith became interim manager of Rangers in April 1991 following the departure of Graeme Souness. With the league title all but secured, Smith guided Rangers over the finishing line and was appointed manager on a permanent basis in May 1991.
Under Smith, Rangers won the next six Scottish League titles, equalling Celtic’s record of nine titles in a row set under the legendary Jock Stein. Over the course of that six years, Smith was allowed to spend £50m on players, including world class talents such as Brian Laudrup and Paul Gascoigne. No other club in Britain spent as much in the period. For most of this time, Celtic were also-rans, as the club was run steadily into the ground in the twilight years of the old Kelly-White dynasty which had run Celtic as their personal fiefdom since the late 19th Century.
Only in the final two seasons of Smith’s original tenure did Celtic present a credible challenge for the title. Smith left at the end of the 1997-98 season, although his departure was announced in October 1997. He later revealed that while the press were told he and David Murray had decided between them that his time was up, Murray had actually told him he would be leaving at the end of the season, feeling that Smith had taken Rangers as far as he was able.
Smith returned to Rangers in January 2007, having walked out on the Scottish national side to do so, to replace the departed Paul le Guen, who had been forced to work on a very tight budget and a fractious group of players who treated him with open disdain as he tried to instill some professionalism into the playing squad. Almost immediately, Rangers spent £2m on Hibernian FC’s highly-rated midfielder Kevin Thomson, and indication that the club was about to embark on a spending spree to overhaul Celtic who clinched their second successive title that year.
A spend of about £10.5m in season 2007-08 saw Rangers reach the UEFA Cup Final, sending most of the continent to sleep in the process with the infamous, “Wattienacchio” defensive system that was later termed, “anti-football” by Leo Messi. They again failed to win the SPL though, with Celtic clinching the title on the final day of play, defeating Dundee Utd FC as Rangers lost to Aberdeen FC.
Rangers met with disaster in August of 2008, as they exited European competition at the hands of Lithuanian minnows Kaunas, meaning that there would be no UEFA Champions League revenue for season 2008-09. Despite this, to general astonishment, Rangers splurged even more cash. Steven Davis, Pedro Mendes, Madjid Bougherra, Kenny Miller, Maurice Edu and Kyle Lafferty were signed following their European exit, a transfer spend that eventually totalled £18m.
By January 2009, owner Sir David Murray informed the fans that £3m needed to be raised in the transfer window, or, “bad things would happen.” Top scorer Kris Boyd refused to leave for Birmingham City FC, no one was sold, and Rangers clinched the title on the final day of the season to cement Walter’s reputation as a coach of some distinction. Bad things were indeed happening behind the scenes at Rangers by the summer of 2009, and their only signing in the 2009-10 season was a loan deal for Frenchman Jerome Rothen, who left in the January transfer window having made no discernible mark on the team. It was though, the Season of the Honest Mistake, as Tony Mowbray’s Celtic were on the receiving end of an astonishing series of refereeing decisions, all of which they took on the chin as Rangers won the title by six points, their biggest winning margin since the 1999-00 season.
Despite the bank keeping a tight control on Rangers’ finances, and a tax bill in excess of £40m being presented by HMRC, in 2010-11, “Walter” was allowed to again outspend the competition, laying out £6m in transfer fees, including the never-paid-for Nikica Jelavic, whose goals in the second half of the campaign were vital in securing the title for Rangers by a single point. In each of his two spells as Rangers manager, Walter Smith enjoyed a significant financial advantage over all of his rivals, spending £26m in his second spell in charge to add to the £50m he spent in the 1990s.
While all and sundry in the Scottish press lauded “Walter’s” achievement in winning three titles in a row on a shoestring, it was conveniently forgotten that throughout that time, Rangers had by a distance the most expensively-assembled squad in the SPL. Don’t forget either that Smith spent that £26m while HMRC were demanding almost £50m in unpaid taxes. Rangers made no attempt at all to put any money aside to pay the tax bill in the event of the First Tier Tax tribunal finding against them. Like Advocaat, Smith may have spent the money, but it should not be forgotten that someone else sanctioned the spending.
So Bill is reportedly teaming up with the Ted(dies). But will it be an excellent adventure or a bogus journey?
Re deception…
“All deception in the course of life is indeed nothing else but a lie reduced to practice, and falsehood passing from words into things.”
– Robert Southey
Gincher67
great post, fella
pls keep em comin
thanks
TC
Will be watching the FA Cup final tonight not wanting any of the 2 teams to win, can’t stand either of them.
gebhoy is the taxmans tick tocking clock, tick…tock on 5 May, 2012 at 12:11 said:
Yeah going on the red flash,still have a spare ticket.
Will be a sad day in your house if you stop going to the games. I know how much you and your family spend on Celtic. Fecking disgrace it’s got to this stage. Plc Celtic have a lot to answer for.
Going down the goal rush route today being no bad latley with it.
Mind me to tell you the story about the chap getting mugged of from one of the Thia tims last night
Seeing a lot of stuff about where they should be, spl with shackles, third div, sorry ghuys, from day one I have had only one hope, obliteration, complete extinction, as I’ve said many times, they are the focal point for sectarian racism and that alone should have been enough to have them wiped from existence.
The licensing issue is the best way to ensure this comes to pass, their corruption of the game should be the nails that bang to coffin lid down forever.
What comes first?
The newco voted back in decision
or the sanctions for a newco decision?
Just catchin up on SSB as I do my housework this morning.
Laurie from Denniston opend the show with a plea that other Celtic fans accept that Rangers are needed in the SPL, and refers to the TB funeral as a day when he thought things would get better between the fans, and that a positive outcome could come if Rangers dont cease.
Talkin utter drivel the man, and he doesnt speak for me.
He obviously hasnt heard the youtube clip (same nugget that recorded the toilets destruction) of the huns at the turnstyles waiting to get in, and giving it a horrible song about TB.
stupid hun apoligist.
in other news, the Huns are to retire the Nuber 12 huns jersey as a tribute to the didnt walk away huns fans for their support in these dark blue days.
stupid huns.
offcourse its a precursor for all the huns jerseys being retired next season.
stupid huns.
McCall on radion now, allready talking up rangers and their fantastic 5-0 win against utd. Basically he is saying if M’well come away with anything less it will be a good result.
15 years since they won there, i expect another 4-0 for the huns.
stupid mullet hun.
row z \o/ (O) enough fly kicks, pass me the hose! on 5 May, 2012 at 11:24 said:
100% agree, and there seems to be more and more following this line of thinking.
If Rangers pull off the great switch and get away with paying there creditors next to nothing and starting again debt free in the SPL Hearts and other teams with millions of pounds of debt would be silly not to follow there example.H.H.
HH
I love the arrogance , regardless of whether it happens that a Rankers team demoted to Div 3 would return to SPL in 3 yrs!
Eh other teams may have an input on that..
Listen out for this oft said arrogance..
A business article Greig Cameron in herald today actually balanced … I was shocked!
Puts the whole charade in context!
HH
Joe Filippis Haircut on 5 May, 2012 at 12:25 said:
Don’t you believe it. Once they’re in the SPL we’ll see the rule change to prevent such a scam happening again.
Jobo
My renewal form has just dropped through the door. I’m £466 it’s in the lower tier at the corner between the North Stand and the Celtic end.
Summa 001 Bhoy
I just read that post out to wee Derryghirl. I think you’re having a blast, remember though all is not as it seems in Scotland.
My advice is and always will be to visit but don’t stay, the Huns are just one manifest of the wrong within bonny Scotland, live long and prosper.
V
Sparklegirl
There is one licensing process for an SPL club to get a license and the SFA web site says that is the UEFA process. It means in effect that a club meeting the UEFA criteria,can if successful play in UEFA competitins ad well as the SPL..
Oldco or Newco fail the criteria so an exception case has to be made and approved by UEFA according to UEFA FFP.
Having stated on their web site that UEFA rules apply, the SFA are going to have to follow them and UEFA SHOULD be involved.
Such is the degree of scepticism afoot now, encouraged by a msm who have just realised licencing is a problem, it could just be a shoo in.
But this will leave HUGE question marks over UEFA’s resolve to make sporting integrity and fair play paramount.
Lets hope Alex T asks more questions of UEFA on this.
Hamiltontim
I’m not making myself clear. This is not about Rangers. RFC is merely the vehicle allowing the exposure to happen. This is about the SFA, the SPL, sporting integrity and a chance to clean that out once and for all.
I fully expect RFC to be back at some point because the sash knuckle draggers will not die in my lifetime.
What I don’t expect is for the governing bodies to cave in to the sashbash pressure and conveniently transpose them back in unpunished.
I can thole them being transported back in…… but only with suitable punishment.
For me that has 2 elements:
1. A 25 point deduction every season they are in payback mode.
2. A payback mode that requires them to invest a sum equal to the debts left behind in general football youth development. If that’s £134m and ten years that’s 13.4m per year before a ball is kicked.
That what fair and suitable punishment looks like to me.
I’ll also happily accept liquidation and death, knowing that a ‘newco’ could start unpunished in Division 3 (assuming Spartans don’t want to challenge for the same slot) and that the sashbash will in some measure follow Perfidious Albion FC and that eventually they’ll return to face us again at some point.
What I can’t accept is a corrupt re-entry with no due punishment, not because it’s RFC being favoured but because it means that the governance is a sham and is bent.
I will not be a party to that sham and I don’t want CFC to be either.
I will not pay money to watch the footballing equivalent of WWF.
HH
Sandman Is Neil Lennon on 5 May, 2012 at 12:09 said:
so you think that 40000 would turn up to watch them play albion rovers? they would be promoted in three season, but it would still have a massive impact on their income, as would their inability to challenge for cups etc…
if they are allowed into the spl as newco, with the laughable 10 point deduction they’ll still compete with most teams in spl and will command good crowds. they will be debt free and will be able to generate all sorts of income, that had previously been tied up or outsourced, in the meantime fans from every other spl team will walk away because, well whats the point, its a fix for them?
a return to the spl is their best position, why on earth do you think they want that outcome, if they thought they would be better off starting in division three, we would not be having this discussion.
think about it, i can read just fine, i am just not willing to swallow any old sh*te. (no offence to Paul intended)
down they must go,