In response to some of the more excitable comments from yesterday it might be worthwhile painting the possible scenarios for Rangers.
No Sale
If Bill Miller is unable to complete the sale (remember, he’s not even paid the deposit and has no intention of doing so), the club will reach the end of the season and run out of money. It will then either expire completely or Duff and Phelps will try to cut a deal with Ticketus to allow Rangers to sell season tickets and retain more of the money than they are currently due.
Rangers could continue to operate in administration for a while to come; Motherwell were in administration for one week short of two years. The club would be unable to afford player wages after they return to normal in 1 June so would be forced to pare the squad back, whether the ban on player registration remains or not.
Miller completes purchase and the SPL vote him into the league
If Miller completes his purchase, as it stands, the SPL board will have discretion to transfer an insolvent club’s share in the league to a Newco. Neil Doncaster has pinned his colours to the mast on this issue, Steve Lomas explained St Johnstone’s willingness to also vote Newco in. Celtic will vote against which means if either Motherwell or Dundee United vote in favour of Newco, they will be allowed into the league.
I have no doubt that both Motherwell and Dundee United will vote in favour of Newco. The SPL will vote to introduce a new procedure for dealing with Newco on Monday but it’s far from clear this proposal will get enough support.
For Miller, there are complications with this issue. He would inherit all football and financial penalties due for Rangers and would also be expected to pay Rangers football debts – around £3.5m.
You can largely ignore the £160k Fit and Proper fines from the SFA but the SPL inquiry into Improper Registration of Players for over a decade will be the biggest charge in the history of British sport. We should be looking at fines commensurate with the financial benefits accrued and multi-year sporting punishments.
If the SPL rule amendments Newco are rejected on Monday (as I expect), there are some who are concerned SPL board will impose lighter penalties than those suggested by Neil Doncaster’s new rules.
Alternatively, Miller could tell the SPL to stuff it and apply to the Scottish Football League. Ally McCoist has already threatened this in response to the already-imposed fines and the notion is popular among Rangers fans I know. If the did this, Newco would not have to pay Rangers football debts and would be subject to no penalties or player registration bans. They could budget for three years of lower-league football and then tool up for the summer of 2015.
You can expect some though talking from Rangers on going to the Third Division in an attempt to spook the SPL into offering limited, single-season penalties.
Among the many unknowns, we can be sure of a few things:
Rangers Football Club, established in 1872, is finished.
Some form of phoenix will happen, if not for next season, then probably by 2013.
The SPL will complete the inquiry into Improper Registration of players, whether Rangers exist or not. If a Newco is granted Rangers SPL share, penalties will be punitive.
Notions that ‘Rangers’ are going to emerge debt-free, strong and able to compete as though nothing has happened is simply nonsense. Their club is dead. They will start a new club, it will either be back in the SPL unhindered in 2015 (or 16) or will be in the SPL next season, heavily burdened for many years to come.
My prediction is for the latter.
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MWD:
And what if UEFA don’t allow teams to play against us?
Once again,a large slice of CQN descends into doom-and-gloom on the basis of….er…I’m really not sure.
Of course,given the scepticism with which we rightly view the governing bodies,we are justifiably wary about what they may do to assist their “brothers” but,to date,NOTHING has been decided which deserves such a low mood.
IF rangers only had one or two obstacles to overcome and those were determined by eg spl or sfa perhaps I would share the pessimism.
However,that is not the case and they face a whole series of MAJOR obstacles,some of which are way beyond the abilities of the ruling bodies to control or influence.
It is fighting a war on too many fronts and the time element involved in these battles which will,in my opinion,prove too much for them.
Was told last night of Mr Bonus all Celtic can do is vote no the other 10 will out vote them. Celtic plc won’t fight will meekly roll over it’s all about the money money. Also told me the board hoped to have 3 quality players on board for the champion league games.
Many of you will know I am very secptical of our Board’s intentions. I have also said on many occassions that this Ranger’s crises poses a massive risk for Celtic – if Celtic are seen to let Rangers off the hook and they get into the SPL without much penalty etc then Celtic will be ripped asunder.
And so here we are – I listened to Chich Young earlier who stated that “Celtic are ironically Ranger’s biggest ally” in trying to get them sorted. He basically said that he understands that Celtic will support what Rangers are doing for commercial reasons. This isnt the first time he has recently said this.
Now I have no time for Young – he is a hun apologist of the lowest order.
However he has basically outed Celtic here and one of two things may happen.
1) Nothing is said by Celtic – if that is the case then its clearly true that Celtic are in fact Ranger’s biggest ally in this
2) Celtic come out and finally tell us what their stance is.
You and I both know Celtic wont say anything – therefore its clear that, despite what Paul is telling us – Celtic are not only not seeking to finish them off but are actively supporting their position.
If this isnt the case then its time they came out with their position – before votes are made and their chance to influence has gone.
I dont need to tell any of you that this will be the ultimate betrayal of us as a support. For over a century we have been discriminated against, we have been told we are paranoid, that we are deluded while they have systematically cheated and conspired against us. When Celtic were about to go out of business it was the support that saved us. We did it – not Fergus or anyone else. We built up the club again through out support and our subscription to share issues.
Over the last 10 years the club has underdelivered to us and now – when we have a chance to punish Rangers and the Scottish Establishment for what they have done, they are about to betray us.
This will create a massive division in the support – that dvision will never heal. I could never go back to Parkhead again knowing that we are in fact not really trying to win – that I am simply there as a cash cow for the benefit of those who run the club.
Celtic will never be the same again.
Meanwhile Rangers will continue to cheat and act in their normal way – they will go from strength to strength and we will all be told that its all in the past when we bring it up – we will be ridiculed and told we are paranoid. All this even when its clear that Rangers will never be allowed to fail – not just by the Scottish football authorities but by our very own club.
My sense of lack of justice and fairness is overwhelming – but my sense of betrayal by Celtic is even greater.
No more for me.
The end.
NA
That lot would applaud a dancing bear.
Wait a minute……
Lennons passion – I’m sorry but 3 quality players – where have we heard that before? The Board are simply playing with us as usual.
Disgraceful.
MWD
there is a difference in not being able to fulfill fixtures and refusing to fulfill certain fixtures
I don’t think the penalties are the same
If what JF says is correct then Scottish football will die.
We will get a parading of former Celts saying we need Rangers – are Strachan’s and Bonner’s comments this week an early indication of this ?
I for one will not be taken in. And I’m not the only one that does not have mug written on their forehead, as the authorities seem to think we all do.
There will no doubt be some attempt to appease non-Rangers fans at some point, but quite frankly they can stick it.
gebhoy is the taxmans tick tocking clock, tick…tock on 5 May, 2012 at 13:40 said
It all depends on what you mean by getting away with it.
My preference is Div 3 for Newco who have no Oldco history, but titles removals for Oldco. If Rangers had any sense Div3 would be their best recovery option.
Miller will be looking for minimal punishmentfrom the SPL to give his purchase a business chance of staying alive there.
If the Commercial Lobby hold sway (and it will be a stake through the heart of Scottish football because it will totally remove confidence in its governanace, so what is the point of having rules that are not applied) but if that happens I would expect to see the following sanctions imposed.
1) Regardless of Oldco/Newco no UEFA football for three years (Alex
Thomson’s point about UEFA now looking at taking a CVA as evidence of
instability and in effect giving a club three years to establish stability
2) The SPL direct a repayment of xP in the £ must be made to unsecured
creditors (as happened with Luton) as well as payment of football debts.
3) A points deduction penalty (but I’m not sure if this would matter if a UEFA ban was in place, they could end up relegated and where would that put the SPL?) In any case it would be used by the HATElys to devalue any titles Celtic win although other clubs might like it. if it gave them a chance of finishing above Rangers..
4) SPL Income withheld as in SPL FFP (hah) proposals(75% was it)
5) Stripped of titles since 2000 if players improperly registered and/or the ebt case goes for HMRC..
6) Transfer embargo until outstanding debts to clubs are met.
7) And an enquiry into the SFA Licencing AND Refereeing regimes to see what improvements can be made to remove distrust.
The first and last ones are my biggy because it was the lure of CL money to
get out their hole that caused the problem with regard to Celtic and that
temptation must be removed. Changes to the systems make it difficult to
repeat.
As long as Newco are financially weakened (and btw if Newco are at Ibroc Ticketus will be wanting their share of the gate and will have a good argument to present) I think that as soon as their high earners depart we will be looking forward to regular 3-0 humpings and their support will definitely not.
Could someone answer a question for me.
When Paulo DiCanio signed for Celtic from Milan, was his first game for us a friendly at CP, and was he injured and taken off? If so, who was the team we played?
My memory of it is him coming on as a sub v Killie away.
SPF
AuldHeid @ 13:23,
This is the Key issue for me Gordon_J posted on this earlier.
Phoeixing is frought with difficulties in civil (& in extreme cases Crimminal) law, add to that the Football Regulations and yiu have an Old/NewCo nightmare.
Despite the D&P statement (we believe, in our view..) Bill Miller isn’t buying RFCia, he is purchasing assets, but what Assets.
Which asses are in the possession of D&P to sell.
SPL Share….No
History….No
Players Contracts….Contentious
Ibrox….Contentious
Murray Park….Contentious
Sponsorship….Contentious
IP….Contentious
Goodwill….What exactly is that?
Things he doesn’t want
Toxic History
Sanctions
Penalties
Debt
More Debt
Future litigation risk
TicketUs Contract
JJB Contract
Catering Contract
Some Players Contracts’
Most Employee Contracts’
etc…etc…etc…
Once Mr Miller sorts that out he can start pulling together a Football club, which will obviously have to be funded till whatever revenue begins to flow.
By the end of the Season, Dont think so…
Medtim and Tom McLaughlin.
Ditto
Does anybody really believe that Celtic would risk the back-lash from their own support by doing nothing?
One Glasgow Club is in administration with massive debts and as yet no confirmed new owner.They also have more problems coming down the line (tax man,double contracts) are subject to a 12 month transfer embargo and 3 year euro ban and indeed their very existence in future is still doubtful.
The other Glasgow Club (recently crowned champions) have a talented yound squad,are on a sound financial footing and will bring in some decent players before competing in the Champions League.#
Yet I all i see on here from the usual malcontents is sack the board.
Very sad delusional people
RANGERS HAVE WON 4 IN A ROW AND ARE WELL ON THEIR WAY TO 5.
Comment from last october, 3-0 down to killie at half time, from the oracle, JAMES FORREST.
Any comments, james. Are you annoyed we won the league with ease, (as I predicted) james
Does anybody believe that Millar isbuying Rangers to keep them going to make a profit as opposed shuting them down and making a big profit at less risk?
Meanwhile the huns are attempting to intimidate anyone who make a decision against them – and the press simply allow and help with this.
If the SFA overturn the transfer ban decision then we all now what we need to do if anyone make s a bad decision against us
Murderwell are at it thats twice they have fecked up basically open goals
kitalba on 5 May, 2012 at 14:02 said:
Does anybody really believe that Celtic would risk the back-lash from their own support by doing nothing?
————-
It’s possible they would put feelers out to guage reaction. This is why it’s vital that our views are expressed.
James Forrest,
I am in no position to deny what you are claiming but I would be very, very surprised that Peter Lawwell would say even one to one what Celtic’s response would be to their conniving. I believe he was speaking the truth when he said our financial plan was not based on their being around. It may well be that the other members of the SPL have let it be known that they are going to vote them back in, come hell or high water. Presumably, in that case, there is nothing we can do, apart from resigning, except what you say the Board is doing and that is trying to ensure they are punished as severely as possible.
Personally, I would be all for resigning but it wouldn’t take effect for 2 years and where are we going to play after that?
Could we refuse to sign the new contract with SKY/ESPN? Could we refuse to let the cameras into Celtic Park for games against them? I imagine there are measures we can take . Could we ask UEFA to intervene? Could we chase up the allegded corrupt interfering of Lloyds TSB? Are the Board already doing these things?
And to all of you board apologists – are you quite happy that we effectively prop up the huns who have been cheating us for all these years. Are you happy to watch a rigged league and to be shafted by the very people who are suppossed to be looking after our best interests?
oglach on 5 May, 2012 at 14:04 said:
Murderwell are at it thats twice they have fecked up basically open goals
I just switched it on, terrible miss.
I got a row the other night for watching their game v Dun Utd, apparently uber Celtic fans only watch ra (financially doped) Barca.
Please,my friends,don’t let the msm rumour mill drive you crazy. RFCIA are finished,finito,ended,gone.
Even if they connive a way back into the spl,they have no way to compete.
They will be Dunfermiline Lite ( no offence intended to Dunfermiline).
Then,when they are relegated,what masonic conspiricay can haul their assets out of the bonfire?
Keep The Faith.
And,just so you know,I have good reason to loathe & despise them as much as anyone. I wish them nothing…nothing at all.
They are a cancer on Glasgow,in particular.
talwar e/w
If JF is proven correct the next GB epic banner should be of
Vidkum Quisling, Benedict Arnold, Judas Iscariot and Peter Lawell
No heading needed
“allowed the club to shed its debt burdens”
AKA
“dishonestly swindle people out of their money owed to them”
Motherwell banner at the Truck Stop:
He came from the Well
To take you to Hell!
Not bad for them.
I’ve only been watching for ten minutes, but Motherwell are all over them, and should have scored twice.
kitalba on 5 May, 2012 at 14:02 said:
Does anybody really believe that Celtic would risk the back-lash from their own support by doing nothing?
……………………………
They would be foolish if they did that’s for sure.
Algarvian on 5 May, 2012 at 14:06 said:
oglach on 5 May, 2012 at 14:04 said:
Murderwell are at it thats twice they have fecked up basically open goals
##########
I enjoy watching Rangers (IA) getting pumped and also casting a critical eye over the differing tatics employed by Murderwell against Celtic and the Orcs – its like night and day its so different. Wasn’t is Sun Tuz who said “know thy enemy”
Murderwell are doing their utmost to allow Rankers to score.
A shambles of a ‘game’.
Why am I watching? For the corrupt comedy value.
Come on guys,
Did any you deep down think the huns would end up in division 3?
I’ve always thought they would stay in the SPL no matter what, for me it’s the way they stay in the SPL that matters. I would be wanting at least….
4-5 years of points deductions.
Prize money withheld for 4-5 years
No Euro football for 4-5 years (they will get 3 year ban for newco)
If found guilty of running 2nd contracts then cups and titles removed from oldco or newco, plus financial penalties. (if no more)
Plus the fine and years ban from signing players must stay.
If they go to division 3, they will be back in the SPL within 4 years with no penalties of any kind. (apart from the ones the ref’s give)
Fans that want us to go to division 3 as a protest re newco coming right back into the SPL, what makes you think D 3 will have us??
If you think they will take us…….why don’t we go for D 3 in England, surly they would take us also??
“kitalba on 5 May, 2012 at 13:21 said:
James Forrest
It is not like you to react to hearsay.”
;-D
rebuswad
I would hope Celtic are listening to the support, more fool them if they are not.
At least Fat Sally’s finally had a wash!
Willie Gollum is going to give them a Pen “i can feel it in me waters”
bhoys4ever on 5 May, 2012 at 13:28 said
Mail back and badges will follow next week
CRC
Lennons passion
Neil Lennon himself said in post match interview on thursday that there will be no big signings. He wants 2 or 3 new players in but don’t expect any of (PL’s) marquee signings.