I’ve just caught Joe O’Rourke’s article on the Association site about the long-awaited released of statistics on sectarian crime in Scotland. Joe suggests that the data from 2003 – 2010 was has been destroyed by the Crown Office. I also hear that the Scottish Government will release entirely irrelevant ‘information’ today, specifically, where offences took place, not which groups were responsible or which groups were targeted by the offenders.
It takes a lot of effort to make sure you destroy data these days, you need to ensure not only that prosecutors permanently delete backups (which I really doubt they do) but also that the police similarly comply.
Fortunately all is not lost. While it’s just about believable that regional police forces across Scotland and the Crown Office have acted in symmetry on this issue, I could have helped the First Minister, Alex Salmond’s, search for clarity by pointing him in the direction of British Transport Police (BTP). The Transport Police are a separate force who operate across Britain and are run by the Home Office in London. They are also a lot less proficient at destroying data.
They previously gave me detailed statistics on all incidents they record in connection with Scottish football for season 2007-08. One of the most pleasing aspects of the information is the complete eradication of sectarian offences from all but one Scottish club, so the First Minister will be delighted to learn he has a smaller problem on his hands than he perhaps knew. According to BTP, 11 arrests were made for sectarian offences in total, 10 Rangers fans and one Northern Ireland fan.
You can see the detail figures for all recorded incidents here (the majority of which are for non-sectarian issues). From a total of 99 incidents (not all of which resulted in arrest), there were six involving Celtic fans, six for Dundee United, seven for Motherwell, four for Hibernian and five each for Aberdeen and Hearts. Rangers fans were involved in a total of 48 incidents.
The BPT figures also make it clear that most incidents occur when fans travel to away venues. The Force also confirmed that incidents surrounding the 2008 Uefa Cup final in Manchester were not included in these statistics.
To further aid Mr Salmond in his search for clarity on this issue, he can contact British Transport Police with a Freedom of Information request here, where they will be able to provide him (or you) with up to date stats.
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else=nice
Too many distractions last two seasons deflecting from our on field performances – sorry to get back to the football
Could the missing data in some way be linked to the continued podium chasing efforts by Philvis and his shifting of the space time continuim?
DB
Muchas gracious.
Aye tis the best advice……….
hamiltontim says:
“In modern Scotland you’re 4.5 times more likely to be the victim of sectarianism if you’re a Catholic.”
Do not be so pessimistic!
That is an improvement.
It has fallen from being 5 times more likely.
good afternoon cqn
kevin jungle
rangers 1 saints1 does that include their penalty from mr norris
Statistics,statistics and damned lies,no not Whytes alleged due dilligence but as Mort has superbly pointed out,you can dress stats up to suit whatever need.The Establishments need is to blacken our name after alleged,unproven allegations.Morts stats should be handed to Salmond, along with his arse on a plate.
Celtic Football Club Should appoint Michael Kelly as our P R Man
Ramie – thankyou for the update.
It must be 3/4? years since Martin first became unwell.
We should be posting a note on our website pointing out how dangerous a place Celtic Park is due to visiting fans and please be careful when attending Celtic Park. That fans from all over Scotland but mainly Rangers fans are inherently violent and that the Police need to do something about it. That possibly they are wasting too much time and resources that could be put to good use. Like Eddie Smith not doing his job at the Rennes game.
HAil Hail
Ah truth
Dear old truth
You are so brave you even use the word truth in your name.
Might I be so bold as to point out the awe-inspiring stupidity of your post.
You, with truth in your name, ask that statistics should be ignored. Whilst using statistics to number stands closing and attendances falling.
You dolt.
I often look forward to reading your posts. Very informative. Could be used in statistical information. I try to try and see the world through your eyes, the way you see it…
… then I have to remind myself I’m not a BO ridden, adult romper suit wearing bedroom dweller who, when not ‘pulling the heid aff it’, spends his ‘recuperation time’ trolling Celtic websites looking for attention.
Now away back to the underwear section of your Mum’s catalogue Einstein.
Statistics indeed.
You really make me laugh. Heartily. Out loud. You brainy, brainy man.
U
Don’t feed the vermin.
The way Things are Going..
Hell.. Check that..’
‘The way Hiv went..
Regarding , the Game by Game.. Injury List..
We Must. most Definitely.. No Doot Abot It..
Bring Back..
Master O’Dea.. in January.
Why we hivnae made any attempt tae bring him back, Immediately..
during the last few weeks.
Is .
Astounding… Ah wis gonna use..”Astonishing”,but Ah hiv over used that too much, lately!
Surely ,who evah wrote up the Loan Contract fur the O’Dea Deal..
Mustfa Hiv Included a ..” A Come back Little Sheba.. ye ur Needed”
codicil,in the Microscopic Print.
Ah soitenly wid hiv.. but that is Jist Me
Always.. well..
Using Ma Heid!
Kojo
TopCorner says:
18 November, 2011 at 12:19
Friday 18 November 2011
Bishop Tartaglia comments on Crown Office analysis of Sectarian Offences
Reacting to the publication of the Crown Office analysis, Bishop Philip Tartaglia, as President of the Communications Commission of the Bishops Conference of Scotland, said:
“Although it has taken five years and repeated requests and in spite of the fact that in the intervening period hundreds of Crown office documents have been destroyed, preventing a more complete and balanced analysis, this report does nonetheless make a useful contribution to the sectarianism debate.
Catholics will take little comfort from the fact that they were previously five times more likely to suffer a sectarian attack than anyone else and are now 4.5 times more likely. Since Catholics represent just 16% of Scotland’s population, the fact that they account for almost 60% of the victims of sectarian crime reflects poorly on modern Scotland and is an indicator of entrenched hostility on a worrying scale.
It remains the case that the overwhelming majority of sectarian incidents are not football related. Therefore, far more engagement is needed with the church in future by all public authorities committed to the eradication of religious intolerance. I restate the willingness and the readiness of our church officials to assist Strathclyde Police in their efforts to understand and monitor religiously aggravated behaviour.
Finally, the Catholic Church in Scotland condemns in the strongest possible terms any sectarian behaviour or criminality from any quarter whatever, as having no place in a civilised society.
ENDS
Peter Kearney
Director
Catholic Media Office
http://www.scmo.org
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
TC
Very interesting stats in this. If combined with that other stat that 40% of the prison population are catholic based, then sociologically, we have the perfect storm of prejudice and discrimination.
On a link recently provided inadvertently by Seanbhoy, I read some of the bile that passed for editorializing there. Their take on the 16% population and 40% prison population was that we (catholics and such) were therefore more criminally minded – as how else would so many of us(disproportionately) end up in jail.
Eugenics was the basis for KKK, National Socialism and others, but it seems that it is still alive and well in Govan and others parts of the old empire.
Catholics form 16% of the population, but account for 60% of the victims of sectarian attacks, and are more likely than non catholics to be imprisoned. (Some statisticians can work out percentages and ratios better than me).
In London and much of the Southeast, if these same stats were blacks or Asians would be the subject of parliamentary questions, Home Secretary responses and dominate the media headlines. During the ensuing furore, if it had emerged that the official records of the offences that demonstrated the trend of discrimination had been destroyed, the relevant politician and Civil servant would have been sacked.
Supt Smith’s Uefagate was bad enough, his SFAgate over the Hibs game was next, followed by Shorthouse’s leaking to the Sun and then the Record. Smith’s refusal to meet the CSA was next, followed by Corrigan’s lackey releasing patronising lies about the upcoming meeting with the CSA. The admission that the last 7 years (but one) of national stats about sectarian attacks were deliberately destroyed, followed by the release of a new set of stats for the last year – stats that appear to identify Celtic Park as the problem football venue. (and as Paul has explained actually reinforce the earlier, now destroyed stats).
In addition we read of a Rxxxxxx fan being found not guilty of sectarian behaviour at Dunfermline, not because he didn’t shout”fenian bastad”, but because there no evidence tha a breach of the peace was likely. In amongst other Rangers fans during a defeat to the home team – so no BoP likely there, “aye that’ll be right.”
All the elements are here for Scotland’s own version of “Mississippi Burning”. Even down to the more gentile people saying out loud that last season “that Neil Lennon brought it all on himself.” I have had two people actually say that to me, and I live in the States.
Substitute black or Asian or any other minority for Catholic in these events, and all hell would break loose – but then again probably not in Scotland.
I used to think that Americans were arrogant, but now I realise where they got it from. Eugenics has formed the background to the Scottish psyche since before the age of enlightenment.
If this is the new devolved Scotland, I shudder to think what a truly independent Scotland could look like.
Politicians are all barra boys and angry women, who start/end up with a god complex and who all follow their own personal agenda.
Be careful who you vote for.
HH
RWE CSC
BADA BING 1557
ULYSSES can feed him ANY time!
ulysses mcghee says:
please dont hide behind words just say it as it is…..
2010 Never Again
The afternoon blessing will commence shortly.
At this time a prayer will be offered up for all those low life’s who are in the employ of Media House…..Via_ wherever they may be….and whichever name they go by………and also for all those who have sold their souls for 30 pieces of silver…..the likes of Pat Nevin, Eddie Smith, Willie Collum et al
Mort says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:46
truth4767 at 15:42
No reason why we can’t concentrate on a multitude of things. To the normal person, this is relatively easy.
As for cherry picking statistics, all I have done is a simple analysis of what was produced to enable comparisons. If Rangers would like to provide details of those arrested at Ibrox, we could see if they were better or worse behaved than Celtic supporters.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:51
truth4767 says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:42
post of the day !!
slabberin’ demented hun reaps what he sows
Just a perfect day .. you made me forget myself .. I thought I was someone nice someone good ….
MotherTuckingBigSuckingSmilesCSC
———————————————————————————————————————
I am not a statastician, thank goodness. I have’nt a clue who did who to what and if i did I am sure it would not go down well here.
I could say that one of the findings said there was more sectarian crimes around Parkhead than Ibrox, but no, I am a bigger man than that. Oops, it slipped out.
Fed up with the whole debate, to be honest.
I am not a statastician
if i did I am
or even semi literate ?
I have’nt a clue
We all know
Hail Hail
Kojo
There’s also Hooiveld, remember, whose loan deal runs out in January. His team are on a winning run and top the English Championship.
Only problem is Lenny dropped a heavy hint today that Joos may not want to return. Too bad.
RWE
Powerful stuff,and eloquently put. Much beter than I ever could.
Not seen you on the night-shift lately,so I take it you have better things to do?
ulysses mcghee says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:57
Ah truth
Dear old truth
You are so brave you even use the word truth in your name.
Might I be so bold as to point out the awe-inspiring stupidity of your post.
You, with truth in your name, ask that statistics should be ignored. Whilst using statistics to number stands closing and attendances falling.
You dolt.
I often look forward to reading your posts. Very informative. Could be used in statistical information. I try to try and see the world through your eyes, the way you see it…
… then I have to remind myself I’m not a BO ridden, adult romper suit wearing bedroom dweller who, when not ‘pulling the heid aff it’, spends his ‘recuperation time’ trolling Celtic websites looking for attention.
Now away back to the underwear section of your Mum’s catalogue Einstein.
Statistics indeed.
You really make me laugh. Heartily. Out loud. You brainy, brainy man.
—————————————————————————————————————-
Och, it is something to dae.
You are a welcoming sort.
bye for now.
Noo, wheres that catalogue?
Can anyone answer me this
I have a cousin who is Protestant and is a season ticket holder at Celtic Park he is not afraid to hide his hoops eiither on the way or on the way home from the ground
Now if he was assaulted on his way home because of his hoops would it be recorded as being sectarian or religiously aggravated
!!Bada Bing!! says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:56
Statistics,statistics and damned lies,no not Whytes alleged due dilligence but as Mort has superbly pointed out,you can dress stats up to suit whatever need.The Establishments need is to blacken our name after alleged,unproven allegations.Morts stats should be handed to Salmond, along with his arse on a plate.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
2010 Never Again
I’m not sure Mort would be in full agreement with that <:-))
END RUN
A maneuver in which impediments are bypassed, often by deceit or trickery.
Well done Paul in exposing the shameful and predictable practises of the administration. (I like the A word)
There is no news here that we don’t already know, but it does highlight the blindness of the media and their attempts to tar us with the same brush as the less than law abiding fans of a club on life support.
‘GG
Just another quick dip in….
RobertTressell, Jeanette Findlay from the Supporters’ Trust read your comment at 11:52 about records being destroyed and asked me to tell you she…
“thought you might like to know that we [the Trust] put the following questions via MSPs to the Justice Minister MacAskill:
Could you please obtain an answer to the following questions:
* Who gave the instruction to destroy this data and when?
* When was it actually destroyed?
* Was this electronic data?
* Can it be recovered?
* When did the Justice Secretary know that this data was
destroyed?
* Did the Lord Advocate know that this data was destroyed when
he gave evidence to the Justice Committee recently?
* Are there any paper or electronic records which could be used
to reassemble the data?”
Your suggestion that this makes for a good Freedom of Information request sounds appropriate. Let me know if you do.
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS says
UM certainly told him his fortune. …
mickybhoy1888
because of his hoops
and you used to be a policeman ?
Hail Hail
Truth@ 16:01
Oh dear. Form an orderly queue now Bhoys…
Imatim- oops!! made me laugh there! apologies to Mort.
uppompeicsc
hamiltontim says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:51
Liar1690
In modern Scotland you’re 4.5 times more likely to be the victim of sectarianism if you’re a Catholic. Unequivocal and shameful.
_________________________________________________
I feel safer since I turned Jedi .
DBBIA
3 years on nov 4th this year
The jammy bassa jagged the winner and second place in the Melbourne cup this year
He deserves all the luck he can get
He still asks after all of you
And I read the blog to him regularly to him
At the moment he is in his element… As many may remember…he IS. ..the song debate
I go round and keep him warm and watch the games…
God I miss him … But god won’t change that
We take every day as a blessing…and move on
Kitalba …. ( no disrespect to anyone) is the only one who truly knows how things Really are
And long may that continue
DBBIA
Maybe some day we(KANO) Nd me can meet up
Carolyn is trying right now to raise funds to get Martin home (Scotland)
Soon….
Any way hail hail
Ramie
TUBE1888 started a disagreement with MORT about his wee bit of statistical analysis,and engaged him in a discussion,ending in the following.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I could say that one of the findings said there was more sectarian crimes around Parkhead than Ibrox, but no, I am a bigger man than that. Oops, it slipped out
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So,hadn’t he even READ the post from MORT before firing in?
Or is he just thick?
VP
next time I attend the vigil and you are in pv ill nab you and get you pack to pinapple… o))
timbhoy2 says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:56
Celtic Football Club Should appoint Michael Kelly as our P R Man
……………………
In all seriousness, they probably should ask him. The current PR man is very very bad at his job.
johann murdoch says:
18 November, 2011 at 15:54
Did you notice that,when Philvis can’t get podium ,he flounces for the rest of day.
That’s a FACT as supplied by snp/strathclyde polis/clyde one/daily record.
BADA BING 1606
No less than he deserves….
mickbhoy1888 says:
18 November, 2011 at 16:06
Can anyone answer me this
I have a cousin who is Protestant and is a season ticket holder at Celtic Park he is not afraid to hide his hoops eiither on the way or on the way home from the ground
Now if he was assaulted on his way home because of his hoops would it be recorded as being sectarian or religiously aggravated
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
2010 Never Again
Neither. He would be charged with Breach of the Peace