Consider this: with Celtic certainties to win the league, they have now been given three consecutive home Scottish Cup games, against Brechin, Partick and Morton, on the road to perhaps becoming the first club to retain the treble in Scottish football history. For so many years home cup draws were as elusive as the outcome to SFA review results into Rangers Uefa licence in 2011, but here we are.
The big picture from the weekend: Despite things still being far from flowing on the park, I’m delighted with the win over Partick Thistle. Of the two cup games this week, the Thistle game was the most important. An aggregate win over Zenit would flood more euros into the Celtic Park coffers, but progress of (perhaps only) one more round in the Europa League will be forgotten long before the outcome of this season’s Scottish Cup.
In his first five seasons in charge, Jock Stein won five league titles and five League Cups, losing three Scottish Cup games during that period. This is the standard we now dare aspire to.
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GO TELL THE SPARTIM on 12TH FEBRUARY 2018 4:57 PM
Traditionalist 88
fair play for fighting your corner.
With regards to the 2 new defensive recruits, do you personally think they are of a suitable quality to improve on what we already have in our current flawed CB’s.
I watch quite a bit of dundee, and whilst Hendry can indeed pass out from the back his other qualities are extremely well hidden, Comperr well thats to be established.
in my view instead of improving on the CB’s we’ve went backwards. Happy to be proved wrong, but in this day and age its nigh on impossible to discover a gem for £1m outlay. Calculate the risk factor for regressing as a team, which we undoubtedly have this season.
====================
Its not so much fighting my corner, just asking for a bit of realism from some. Its easy to call for more money to be spent but not saying who we should spend it on! From the pool of known players no names have been suggested, which means people are expecting significant investment in players they havent heard of.
The defence wrecks my head at times with the unforced errors and clearly Brendan wanted to do something about it too. I’ve never seen Compper play and I’m far from convinced on Hendry but they have to be given a chance.
There are a lot of potential variables to betaking into account when calculating risk particularly in the football industry, deciding to make the investment is just the first stage in a complex process.
HH
NEGANON2 on 12TH FEBRUARY 2018 5:32 PM
Traditionalist 88.
There are factors which make life difficult for sure. I think the “they won’t come to play in Scotland” may be a factor but I think it’s a small one. Particularly if you build a reputation for participating in the player moving on to the epl to earn lots of dosh. We can also offer CL participation (if we don’t destroy our own chances). We pay PL and a team of people to do this work so I don’t see why I need to be an expert (which I am not).
But it strikes me that you can either be terrified of investing some of our money and definitely cause us not to be in the CL or you can increase your probability by showing more ambition.
Also a goal could be to move up the market in terms of spending and get higher transfer fees as a result. With the EPL the way it is we could make much more money in transfer fees by upping our level of targets. The epl may be obscene but it also presents opportunities, thus far all we hear from CQN are the risks.
It strikes me that the transfer window just closed was the opportunity to build for the cl qualification next season with a settled and well prepared team. But we simply didn’t do that.
Celtics so called prudent approach isn’t prudent it’s incredibly risky. But when you get too scared thinking and planning stops.
========================
Yes we’ve built a pretty decent reputation for spotting talent, which has resulted in a lot of clubs looking to cut out the ‘middle man’. And we are not the only club with a scouting system scouring for potential bargains.
The idea of moving up a level ie. spending more and getting even more back is interesting but is it feasible? If a player is valued at/available for £8-10m now its likely to be from an EPL club or a club in a top league, which means they have concluded he isnt quite going to make it for them. The chances of getting a bigger return on that investment are small. Example, Paddy Roberts – lots of quality, could land him for a figure in that ballpark but are we going to get £30m+ in three years? Ok thats not the be all and end all but if we do that for two players we’ll have spend ~£20m(plus wages), which is a bit much for a club in Scotland when you consider that we don’tcan’t budget for the Champions League due to the perilous route to get there?
Say you do decide to go for those two players anyway. Then all the other stuff comes into play. Thats all I was hoping for, a bit of ackowledgement that its a difficult market and guys like VVD are the exception, not the rule.
HH
Re. ns etti g into league…i spoke to spartans board member…thry were scared to be the club to stop them…terrified of repercussians..as individuals. And lo g term agai st club
I wonder how The Great Desmondo would have reacted if a junior club had stopped the huns from being allowed to join the Scottish league.
I was directed to Chris McLaughlin’s article on the troubles of the SFA on the BBC website. Had to laugh at his comment that the £30m we have in the bank could buy “almost” all the other member clubs combined. With all the debt swimming around I would imagine I could probably buy them with the pound in the coin pocket of my jeans. Sounds like a sop to the truth deniers.
Sir Bribe & Lie
Sir David Murray is the son of a convicted tax-evader. A tax-evader who concealed earnings from two racehorses that he owned. He was sentenced to eighteen months imprisonment.
Sir David Murray paid a one million dollar bribe, in addition to the six million pounds official price, to secure a controlling interest in Rangers FC. The bribe was delivered in a suitcase. The courier was a trusted senior executive in Murray Metals. The recipient was Lawrence Marlborough.
These facts are incontrovertible. When Ayr United FC spurned Murray’s overtures they were fully aware of the sins of his father. One would not be surprised if they took the view that the apple had not fallen far from the tree.
“Would you like an honorary degree with your £6.3m EBT, Sir David?”
When Murray Metals metamorphosed into Murray International Holdings, David Murray ran up debts of £898,000,000. Despite being the son of a Roman Catholic mother, Murray was accepted by the Edinburgh Establishment and taken under the wing of Sir Angus Grossart who had so many fingers in establishment pies that a thimble might have come in handy. Murray’s Edinburgh contacts are pulling strings on his behalf, no doubt for a taste, in a new Edinburgh Village of 1300 homes in green belt land adjacent to the RBS HQ in Gogarburn. RBS, unsurprisingly given the influence of their former vice-chairman Grossart, are supportive of the scheme.
Murray was never the sharpest tool in his private school’s box. However he had a flair for networking and a penchant for flattery. If you met him face to face he would inquire whether you had a ‘bit on the side.‘ Those who saw this as a portal to gaining his confidence soon learned that the information that they had imparted could be used against them. Murray deployed more that succulent lamb to control the SMSM.
If he had not controlled the narrative and had a former police superintendent on his payroll he would have been sent down just like his father. The odious Gordon Brown ennobled him for services to business. Services that included racking up losses at Rangers to the tune of £175m in one business year. Murray even had the clout to make a good fist of putting Celtic out of business. Despite the fact that Celtic were a far better run club than Rangers, the Bank of Scotland, at Murray’s behest, called in their overdraft. Had it not been for the eleventh hour intervention of Fergus McCann, Murray’s Rangers would have had a clear field.
Having achieved Nine-In-A-Row by obscene financial doping, and having narrowly failed to put Celtic out of business, Murray pursued other avenues to give his calling card of a club an edge. He engaged in aggressive tax-avoidance schemes. The ones that we know about, DOS and EBT, were both illegal. Murray paid 63 players and 24 others off the books. When Walter Smith was at Everton, his purchase of players for top dollar from Rangers was rewarded with an EBT gratuity. This was also the case with Graeme Souness. Once you had accepted Murray’s EBT largesse he had a hold over you. When Campbell Ogilvie pocketed a £95,000 EBT severance payment he knew full well that he was supping with the devil.
The following Rangers EBT timeline is instructive:
2000: Rangers begin making payments through an Employee Benefit Trust (EBT), which was set up by major shareholder Murray International Holdings (MIH).
2010: April 27 – Rangers confirm they are under investigation by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) over offshore payments to players from 2001. Rangers say they will “robustly” defend the case on the basis of expert tax advice.
2012: January 18 – A three-day first tier tax tribunal closes in Edinburgh, following earlier hearings to determine whether Rangers are guilty of tax evasion through EBTs.
March 2 – The Scottish Football Association confirm they will investigate claims made by former Rangers director Hugh Adam that payments made to players were not disclosed to the governing body.
March 5 – The Scottish Premier League confirm that their board have instigated an investigation into the alleged non-disclosure of payments made to players by Rangers, which prompts the SFA to drop their case.
May 23 – A BBC documentary team claims 63 Rangers players and 24 staff members received EBT payments and says 53 of them were provided with “side letters” detailing the structure of payments.
May 31 – Rangers’ administrators Duff and Phelps provide files requested by the SPL in their investigation into undisclosed payments.
June 14 – Oldco Rangers are formally consigned to liquidation after HMRC reject a Company Voluntary Arrangement proposal. Charles Green’s Sevco Scotland company buy a basket of assets.
August 2 – The SPL appoints an independent commission to probe the contentious payments.
August 6 – Murray denies cheating took place during his stewardship.
September 10 – Sevco Scotland (Rangers Lite) announce they will refuse to attend a scheduled hearing of the SPL-appointed commission.
November 20 – Rangers win their appeal in principle against a tax bill – the so-called ‘big tax case’ – for use of EBTs.
2013: January 29 – The commission begins hearing evidence with Rangers sending legal representation.
January 31 – The SPL concludes its hearing into allegations of undisclosed payments with a written decision to come.
February 28 – Rangers Lite ( who agreed to accept sanctions applicable to the former club in the five way agreement) are handed a fine of £250,000 for breaching rules over disclosing payments but the new club, which was conferred with titles won by the former club, avoids being stripped of titles after the commission finds they obtained no sporting advantage.
July 7 2017. The Supreme Court finds for HMRC in Rangers EBT case.
Note how Murray when caught bang to rights admits no wrongdoing and shows no remorse. Two fully equipped and fully staffed hospitals could have been established had Murray paid the taxes that were due. Murray helped himself to a £6.3m EBT.
Murray is a fucking rogue, yet quite incredibly he is still feted by the Edinburgh establishment. Would you buy a house from Murray? If you do you will feather the next of a man who singlehandedly assassinated sporting integrity and ransacked Scottish football for more than two decades.
So how did Murray get away with it for so long? He also had friends in high places in Glasgow. No more so than Campbell Ogilvie and Stewart Regan. Ogilvie’s £95,000 EBT put him at the disposal of Murray. However Murray also had a hold over Regan. Was the latter bribed to look the other way. Was Regan slipped some complimentary tickets for a test match at Lord’s over a slap-up meals at Hotel Du Vin?
Or could it be as simple as all the estimable Lords offering legal advice to the SFA being in some way indebted to or influenced by Sir David Murray?
Prior to Regan’s dismissal – he will be paid his one year’s notice in full – he went on the offensive with Yuanker Traynor’s new lickspittle, Gary Ralston. Keith Jackson has grown tired of publishing Yuanker’s fake news.
The audacity of Regan in the following Q&A truly beggars belief. There are many takeaways but I will highlight only one in bold red italic typeface for further consideration:
Q: What do you have to hide by refusing Celtic’s request, via the SPFL board and on behalf of all 42 league clubs, for an independent review?
S.R: The decision has been taken as a board and having considered all the facts on the table. Since 2011 the board have relied heavily on advice from four QCs and three law lords, supporting us on that journey. We also have two independent directors on our board. Independence has been at its heart and we feel there is enough belief around our board that the decisions have been made with the best interests of Scottish football at heart.
Q: So there’s no appetite in the game for a full review?
S.R: Other than one, we haven’t had a single member asking for this to be undertaken. The fact we have put in place such an independent process since 2011, including independent directors on our board, has significantly moved on the decision making since before I came to Scotland when it was old fashioned committees.
We are in a very different place now. Four QC’s, three law lords, significant amount of financial and legal investment, scrutiny at every step of the way. We have got to the end of the process in our mind. We have made decisions on all the key areas and the one area we feel is still in need of further consideration is from comments made in the Craig Whyte trial relating to the (UEFA) licensing decision of 2011. That has been referred to the compliance officer and is now a live case.
Q: Do you suspect we will never draw a line under this?
S.R: It would be really difficult to convince those who believe in conspiracies there isn’t a conspiracy at play. My pushback to them is do we really think that four QCs, three law lords, all the club execs, all the independent panel members are all part of some huge conspiracy? We have spent too long looking through the rear view mirror and we’ve failed to look at the road ahead.
We have to be able to move on. We won’t get closure in the eyes of some parts of Scottish football – some fans, some stakeholders, won’t ever get closure.
This will be one of those topics that will be talked about for years to come. There isn’t a right or a wrong answer. It’s a judgment call and a group of guys around the boardroom table with independent legal scrutiny have come to the conclusion this is where we draw a line.
Q: How much has been spent on your legal fees?
S.R: Hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Q: Celtic figures would have been on SFA boards at the time decisions were taken in the past?
S.R: Our senior clubs have all been on the various committees and bodies that exist in Scottish football so they have been party to those decisions. And they have also been party to the improvements made.
Q: How many sit on the SFA board and was the decision not to grant an independent review carried by a majority vote or was it unanimous?
S.R: There are eight people on the board and seven were at the meeting. It works through collective responsibility. We don’t publish every decision or score or vote, that’s how boards work.
Q: Are there ramifications for Rangers newco if oldco found guilty of a breach with regards the UEFA license?
S.R: The range of sanctions could – I stress could – be linked with how the five-way agreement comes into play in the future. ( Record Sport understands part of the five way agreement was for Rangers newco to accept liability for issues arising under the jurisdiction of oldco as part of the transfer of SFA membership).
Q: Celtic are asking why there is no review into the Big Tax Case when the SFA are willing to look at the Wee Tax Case?
S.R: We haven’t had any new information raised with us by member clubs. If they have new information or evidence they feels falls into our jurisdiction then we will deal with that.
Q: Are you surprised Celtic haven’t provoked their own investigation via the SPFL?
S.R: Celtic have the ability to do that through their own organisation, if they want to do so.
Q: Celtic’s statement said that if there isn’t an inquiry, it would call into question the SFA’s accountability, transparency and leadership. How do you react?
S.R: We have listened to everybody. That’s not to diminish the points made by Celtic. I have a lot of respect for Peter (Lawwell) and I understand why he’s doing what he’s doing. He has a fiduciary duty to do what is the best interests of Celtic.
Q: Is your relationship with him now damaged?
S.R: I have a great relationship with Peter. We actually sat at the Champions League draw while all these letters were being exchanged. He understands my position. I am acting in the best interests of the game.
Q: Is this really all about title stripping?
S.R: I would actually say Celtic have gone to great lengths in their letters to emphasise it is not about title stripping, it is about process and learning. For some people out there, some stakeholders, groups, fans, maybe title stripping IS at the heart of it. But that matter has been discussed by the SPFL and a line has been drawn under it by the SPFL and they have moved on.
Our board’s opinion is we have had independence all the way. Are we going to have an independent review of an independent review? Where do you draw the line? It has been independent from day one.
Q: Will it ever go away?
S.R: The word that’s been used, ‘closure’? I don’t think it is realistic, I don’t think it is something people will ever be happy with. There are those who want an outcome that can’t be delivered. We’ve gone as far as we can.
Q: Was any part of SFA’s board’s decision-making informed by what might happen if you granted a full review into Rangers EBTs? You can only assume they might want other historic issues addressed?
S.R: That’s not how boards work. Boards deal in facts and information and advice. We treat all our members in exactly the same way. You cannot consider ‘what if’? There are too many what ifs in Scottish football. You deal in the here and now.
Stewart Regan Rangers
SFA men Stewart Regan and Campbell Ogilvie flank then FIFA president Sepp Blatter (Image: Jeff Holmes/SNS)
Q: Is your claim to independence compromised by the position of Campbell Ogilvie as SFA president throughout much of this time?
S.R: Campbell made a very clear point of recusing himself from every single decision and discussion relating to Rangers. He stepped outside and wasn’t involved at any time.
Q: How much is this about Celtic, Rangers, EBTs and SFA and how much is this, in reality, a power struggle between the SFA and SPFL?
S.R: We could sit here and second guess the politics behind it. That’s not for me. My job is to try to drive the game forward and focus on all the positives we are dealing with and now allow the past to drag us back.
Q: All this must be wearying, will you consider walking away?
S.R: No.
A panel of seven voted against a review. Let’s assume that Pathetic Petrie, the 5 Way Agreement Gopher, was one of them. McRae would have also indubitable supported Regan. What about Mulraney, Maxwell and the head of the amateur game? Were the one-executive directors, the clue is in their titles, not allowed to vote. Could it have been a 3-3 tie with President McRae given the casting vote?
McRae and Petrie should be tried in the court of public opinion for crimes against Scottish Football.
Sir David Murray should be sent down for much longer than his father. He has never been punished for his circa £50m in tax evasion. It must be those friends in high places wearing blindfolds as they bare nipples and knees. Murray has always been adept at a knuckle shuffle. What’s £50m between brothers.
Via @sitonfence
Henr1k
I read that absolutely shocking this guy was allowed to have debts up to £900million, keep a knighthood which no doubts means the world to him, and then cherry pick bits of his company and give the worthless garbage back, thus giving him a flying start. Stinks, and banks politicians are looking the other way, this guy will be back mark my words, if he is not already.
Campbell Ogilvie gave testimony to LNS. He never mentioned the noture of the DOS ebts, by then unlawful, or corrected the report when LNS said he would treat the continous with tge BTCs which at that point were lawful.
You can see why they want to move on.
A supermarket where a man shopped in just his pants and a dressing gown has banned customers from wearing nightwear.
Tuffins, in Craven Arms, Shropshire, has put a sign up saying pyjama wearers would be “asked to leave”.
Store owner Harry Delves said the sign followed a “few isolated incidents” of people using the “easy access” of pyjamas and dressing gowns to shoplift.
“We had some incidents which we couldn’t stop unfortunately,” he said.
@bbc
https://twitter.com/RTEsport/status/963129344049762306?s=08
Willie McStay speaking on our behalf at Liam’s funeral
https://twitter.com/Themis1888/status/962235594876141568?s=08
From Liam’s funeral, not a dry eye in this house..
DESSYBHOY
We all know what BOS allowed Murray to get away with,but it was a private company answerable only to its shareholders. Murray always said that debt was not a problem so long as you could meet your obligations to service that debt. (Even if it meant taking on some more!)
But that was not quite the case with Lloyds. It had a duty to its shareholders,yes. But this was a business which was no longer capable of servicing its debts. And those debts were greater than their assets.
Ergo,liquidation.
The effects of the failed business should have been realised and handed over to the creditors. Mainly Lloyds. Mainly,in other words,us.
Instead,as you say,the bank let him buy-probably with borrowed money-the few realisable and profitable nuggets and wrote off the rest. Then hid the resulting near-£1bn loss in its catalogue of woe called annual accounts.
There really should be a public enquiry into this. How someone can be facilitated in such blatant theft from the public purse-and not for the first time,remember!-beats the bejaysus outa me.
And aye,I know. But that doesn’t mean that it should still be permitted.
Andy,
Sevco’s entry into the league was a SFL matter, Mc.Crae is a SFA man, therefore not his jurisdiction .
Jimthetim has covered the rest of it.
******
I think it is only fair if referencing another blog, rather than c&p, we she just give the link, as in, e.g.the case of JJ sit on fence.
Morning wordsmiths of the web,
After much thought, two mugs of coffee and a plate of porridge I have decided to apply for this job.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43040240
I would be honoured to have your vote and even more for a contribution to my crowdfunding initiative to enable me to swan round all the various worldwide locations, wave my gloved hand out of a courtesy Bentley, and condescend to normal people while speaking like someone has stuffed a tumshie up my rectum…an improvement mind you on having Phil the Greek act in a similar manner I would imagine.
I propose to continue with the award of gratuitous honours but once I am in power all those put forward for such an accolade will have to prove their worth by taking their place in a suitable arena, weilding a 6 inch chib and fighting the other candidates…..to the death!!!
The single survivor will be made ‘lord/lady of my chanty po’ and will be not only honoured with the task of kissing my erse, but also complimenting me on the taste.
Hail Hail
Matt
Matt,
Couldn’t do much better than appoint the newly departed Mr. Regan.
A man of integrity and an uncommon wealth of experience.
MATT
You’ve got my vote,bud. I think you’ll look just as smart in the crown as you do in Sharkey’s!!!
If interfering was an Olympic sport ,I would have a meddle in it…
Mmmmm a pun and a reference to D,Ds favourite band…..
@TRADITIONALIST88 on 13TH FEBRUARY 2018 8:50 AM
“Its easy to call for more money to be spent but not saying who we should spend it on! From the pool of known players no names have been suggested, which means people are expecting significant investment in players they havent heard of.”
I’m sorry but this is a vapid argument. It’s akin to criticising a player’s performance and someone retorting, ‘well could you do better? If not, don’t offer comment’. People are paid at Celtic to scout players. The problem is not our ability to scout but the market we are scouting within (which is on account of our unnecessarily constrained budget).
@ TRADITIONALIST88 on 13TH FEBRUARY 2018 9:02 AM
“The idea of moving up a level ie. spending more and getting even more back is interesting but is it feasible? If a player is valued at/available for £8-10m now its likely to be from an EPL club or a club in a top league, which means they have concluded he isnt quite going to make it for them.”
There are very few people that advocate for spending £10 million on a single player. I think the general consensus is that we can buy multiple players in the £3-5m price range. It would be difficult to argue that with our finances this is outwith our capabilities.
Watching the Parliament Channel (i know), an SNP guy Pete Wishart proposing a new site instead of Westminster, electronic voting etc.He gave way to a Scottish Tory, who mocked him.His retort was’ you are usually away refereeing, when we vote, earning thousands of pounds’ .Douglas Rae- there’s yer dinner.
PFA Union boss Gordon Taylor,£2.2 mil a year salary,£777,000 bonus………Union man…..?
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 13TH FEBRUARY 2018 10:50 AM
There are very few people that advocate for spending £10 million on a single player. I think the general consensus is that we can buy multiple players in the £3-5m price range. It would be difficult to argue that with our finances this is outwith our capabilities.
=========
If you have any names, I’m all ears!
Four players in this range still sets you back £12-20m. Doable, probably. At least to the lower end of this scale.
But… doesn’t that get us more of what we’ve already got? Is a player in this bracket a guaranteed upgrade on what we’ve got? Is he available for sale and wants to come?
Maybe Brendan Rodgers has considered this also and we couldn’t get the guy we wanted?
The other problem with the inflated market is that players who wouldve cost you £2m 1-2 years ago are now quoted in the £3m-5m bracket. The price has gone up but not necessarily the quality.
Again, thats all I was askign for, a bit more consideration of the difficult/competitive market.
HH
Bobby/TTT
Every time I hear the nae ‘Regan’ I think not of the SFA or even of ‘The Seeney’ but of Hamlet and the immortal quotation (quoted correctly here for the first time)…..
“Tube or not Tube that is the question.”
The seat of power would be moved to Sharkeys and would be henceforth known as the ‘stool of the cool’ and the fight for honours would be held in the crown and be called “The Duel in the Crown”.
Hail Hail
Matt
‘name’ and ‘Sweeney’ obviously.
Celtic FC – FC Zenit
Referee: Damir Skomina (SVN)
Assistant Referee 1: Jure Praprotnik (SVN)
Assistant Referee 2: Robert Vukan (SVN)
Additional Assistant Referee 1: Matej Jug (SVN)
Additional Assistant Referee 2: Slavko Vinčič (SVN)
Fourth Official: Tomaž Klančnik (SVN)
UEFA Referee Observer: Gylfi Þór Orrason (ISL)
UEFA Delegate: Kazimierz Oleszek (POL)
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE
Yes,indeed. We should have been moving our expenditure up incrementally.
AULDHEID made a similar point yesterday. That a £10m player on 65kpw is a £20m player over a three year contract. Three of them,obviously,is £60m.
That,he reckoned-and he showed his working!-is unaffordable.
But is it?
(Firstly,I only read the post this morning when I got in from nightshift,so please don’t take this reply as talking behind your back,P)
Firstly,our income from CL seasons against non-CL seasons is about £40m more. With a core of players at the level mentioned,that can be improved by last 16 qualification.
Which in itself makes us more attractive to the type of players “who wouldn’t come near us.”
Success at that level makes those £10m players suddenly much more attractive to more monied clubs,kerching.
Now,the down side is that we don’t do CL qualification. But faint heart never f….d Bengal Tiger.
And that is where the risk management comes in,as referenced by NEGANON. We may well have missed the boat on this strategy in fact,because of the new qualifying structure.
But if your entire ethos is risk-averse,you will only ever tread water at best,and eventually tire and drown.
Honestly,I’m not,and I doubt anyone else is,asking for spending for the sake of it. I’m asking us to stop being risk-averse and look at the alternatives.
!BADABING! 1054
Point of order,Mr Speaker!
He’s only a bliddy linesman!!!
@ TRADITIONALIST88 on 13TH FEBRUARY 2018 11:00 AM
“If you have any names, I’m all ears!
Four players in this range still sets you back £12-20m. Doable, probably. At least to the lower end of this scale.
But… doesn’t that get us more of what we’ve already got? Is a player in this bracket a guaranteed upgrade on what we’ve got? Is he available for sale and wants to come?
Maybe Brendan Rodgers has considered this also and we couldn’t get the guy we wanted?
The other problem with the inflated market is that players who wouldve cost you £2m 1-2 years ago are now quoted in the £3m-5m bracket. The price has gone up but not necessarily the quality.
Again, thats all I was askign for, a bit more consideration of the difficult/competitive market.”
You are missing the point- it’s not my job to have names and my failure to produce any does not give a reprieve to those whose job it is at Celtic. This line of argument is reductive. For example, carry this into any area of life: can politician only critique politicians; footballers only critique footballers? My inability to provide names does not negate the validity of the criticism.
As for your other points, the majority of them can be deduced to: speculation and conjecture.
“Is a player in this bracket a guaranteed upgrade on what we’ve got?” There are no guarantees in life. When you go to work in the morning you may not come back. If you pay £5m for a player as opposed to £1m the probability of him being superior is significantly higher. In life you can only ever work with probability; possibility and guarantee are defunct terms.
Finally, we just signed a German international from a German Champions League club for under a £1m- the market outside of England is clearly (despite people trying to muddy the water) not suffering from the same level of inflation.
BMCUW- Collum, Thomshun , Madhun etc , get €5,500 for refereeing a CL game, an Assistant Ref will prob get half that…..
NEGANON2 on 12TH FEBRUARY 2018 5:32 PM
&
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 13TH FEBRUARY 2018 10:50 AM
I would refer both of you to my post yesterday, interesting I received no comments back at the time.
SEÁNP1916 on 12TH FEBRUARY 2018 10:43 AM
I find it as frustrating as the next season ticket holder/poster when transfer windows pass and on the face of it feel slightly underwhelming. Then I usually take a step back and think why I define them as underwhelming? What realistically do I expect Celtic to do in a Transfer window?
This question is regularly asked of the more critical posters on here and while they have every right to express their disappointments and frustrations, I very rarely, if ever have read a reasonable response to this question. Usually the question is either ignored or deflected by changing the narrative onto something more pointed (usually at the board) or is answered with the default “there are more players than just those England out there” when this is challenged it is usually answered with a stock “I’m not a scout” reply.
I would love to be able to understand the argument behind the frustrations of the more critical posters but surely to be taken seriously you have to be able to provide a serious and clear answer to the “what realistically do I expect Celtic to do in a Transfer window?” question.
“Firstly,our income from CL seasons against non-CL seasons is about £40m more. With a core of players at the level mentioned,that can be improved by last 16 qualification.
Which in itself makes us more attractive to the type of players “who wouldn’t come near us”.
Success at that level makes those £10m players suddenly much more attractive to more monied clubs,kerching. ”
I think when we last reached CL last 16, the only player who went for big money was Aiden (Stan had gone without ever getting a Last 16 place). All our other “big” players (Sutton, Hartson, Balde, Lennon and Agathe) left without earning us anything.
In contrast, we sold VVD for big money without him ever seeing CL Group stage. He blotted his copybook in getting sent off early against Inter in a Europa Last 32 but he still fetched big bucks. He only commanded a top class transfer fee when he had “proved himself” in the PL.
Last year we dreamed Dembele might be a £30m or £40m player because he did it in Europe. This year, most are downgrading to £20m or less.
Catch replies later
Well,looks like Celtic fans don’t need to be warned about life in the slow lane. They’ve become used to it,are happy with it,can even dream up reasons for it.
Maybe that famous Trainspotting scene on the moors was spot-on. Happy to be nowhere.
I give up,I genuinely do. I could weep for what we have become,but I could scream about the acceptance of it.
Spending more money doesn’t guarantee success either with a player. I believe I am correct when I say that Jozo Simunovic @ £4m is the most expensive defender Celtic has ever bought.
There is an argument to say that Jozo is probably the most unreliable Centre Back in the Celtic squad both in terms of being available to play and making errors while playing. I would suggest that Jozo has cost Celtic far more goals and chances against than Nir Bitton has while playing at Centre Back. Kinda puts the “must spend more” argument into perspective. It’s not about spending more it’s about improving and evolving the squad and team.
If the argument is “I am not a scout” that’s what “they get paid to do” in response to “name a player?” we cannot then go on to criticise the decisions these guys take on the evaluation of whether a player is worth investing in or not?
We can of course evaluate how they perform on the field when they are part of team but that is a different argument.
The transfer window. We are now weaker in defence than before. Reason is INJURIES! Our players are kicked to bits on pitches not fit for purpose. Our ire should be directed at referees and their bosses and those clubs with dodgy pitches. Had our centre backs been as assured as last season, we would not be shitting it every decent cross into our box.
@ SEÁNP1916 on 13TH FEBRUARY 2018 11:19 AM
Sean,
In response to your points:
“the default “there are more players than just those England out there” when this is challenged it is usually answered with a stock “I’m not a scout” reply.”
You are missing the point- it’s not my job to have names and my failure to produce any does not give a reprieve to those whose job it is at Celtic. This line of argument is reductive. For example, carry this into any area of life: can politicians only critique politicians; footballers only critique footballers? My inability to provide names does not negate the validity of the criticism. I think my point if fair and objective.
“I would love to be able to understand the argument behind the frustrations of the more critical posters but surely to be taken seriously you have to be able to provide a serious and clear answer to the “what realistically do I expect Celtic to do in a Transfer window?” question”
This hits the nail on the head. What do we expect Celtic to do in the window? There is a great book called “Thinking Fast and Slow” by behavioural economists Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman. Within it they posit and provide evidence to back it up that people inherently (and, generally, in order to comprehend a complicated issue) take a difficult question and transform it into an easier one.
So the question: “what realistically do I expect Celtic to do in a Transfer window?” is transformed by many posters into: “Can Celtic spend more money than clubs in England/the Champions League?” The answer is invariably no.
This is a simplified question. The real question and the one I would put to you is: relative to our revenue (circa £100m), are we expending a sufficient proportion or percentage of it on the team? I would answer no.
We continue to make signings for the same amount as we made under Deila, despite our revenue more than doubling; our interim accounts showed (“Profit from transfer of player registrations (shown as profit on disposal of intangible assets) £0.5m (2016: £2.0m)”) that we made profits on players this season; and we have £30m in the bank gaining next to no interest.
I think Shiedt cost more than Jozo…….
THE HANDS CANT HIT WHAT THE EYES CANT SEE on 13TH FEBRUARY 2018 11:14 AM
You’re correct, its not your job to produce names, and nor is it your job to determine transfer strategy at Celtic.
For all you know, that may well be our strategy after two consecutive CL group stage appearances. But if you can’t identify the personnel to fit the strategy (as none of you have) then maybe Celtic havent been able to either. The pool of players meeting all the criteria is finite.
What I am pointing out is that there are multiple factors when trying to get a deal done, none of which are taken into consideration by those behind a keyboard who think they could do better.
Most of our players would be valued at least £3m+ so if we go into the £3-5m bracket I ask again – aren’t we buying more of what we’ve already got?
We all want the best quality on the pitch we possibly can attain buy you have to realise its not as simple a process as many would like to believe.
GER57
McLean booked one Thistle player on Saturday.