Thoroughly enjoying yesterday’s coordinated effort by Newco fans who have rushed to the coattails of Dave King. To be fair to the fans, the time for them to act was years ago, before Sir David Murray set Oldco on a path to destruction, there is little positive that can be done now. Still, that’s no reason to dive headlong into destruction.
After the debacle of 2012, when Oldco were liquidated, the assets were scooped up by people who wanted to make a lot of money. The moment Charles Green and his consortium owned the assets, this reality should have been acknowledged. No amount of 13th hour Blue Knight revisionism was going to change things.
Green made off with his money a year ago, but as a consequence of that, there are newer investors, with exactly the same objectives. There are also local investors in the form of the Easdale brothers. Neither of these groups will be bullied into submission.
King’s escrow plan, which hopes to gain security of the stadium and Murray Park, cannot be accommodated by the club. How many fans do you think they will convince to hand their season ticket money over, 1000? As many as 3000? Whatever your guess figure, this does not have the look of a high participation endeavour.
With many more fans likely to renew, and more still likely to be completely turned off by the nonsense, the The Rangers Football Club Ltd have a legal duty to their shareholders (Rangers International PLC) and creditors (coincidentally, also Rangers International PLC) to retain security of company assets. Placing them beyond the reach of creditors would be a remarkably brave and self-defeating act.
It now suits the club for King’s plan to appear to be effective, or at the very least, reduce season ticket renewals to a trickle. They can cite this as the action which tips The Rangers Football Club Ltd into administration. As the overwhelmingly major creditor, Rangers International would control this administration and their agents will set about reducing costs.
I would expect to see Newco to continue trading as a youth team for the foreseeable future, with Rangers International taking security of Ibrox and Murray Park, to satisfy their unresolved debt. This will be sold to the masses as ‘securing the stadium’, but it would be the key separation of club and stadium which King as sought to prevent.
Going forward, The Rangers Football Club Ltd will have no significant assets, no playing assets to speak of, and a substantial rental to pay to Rangers International, whose shareholders will still require their financial return. Don’t lose sight of this, the Piper Always Needs to be Paid. Always.
I haven’t revisited the RIPLC accounts which drew comment last week (might be worth an update later), but the important information to glean from them is the cost of running a football operation at a stadium which can occasionally host >40,000 people. You’re looking at circa £19m annually, before you employ a footballer.
I don’t see a way forward. This is a dead multi-club football franchise, killed by 1,000 reckless acts. Even the youth team scenario is unaffordable.
The hedge funds will know this already. Remember what John Brown claims Charles Green told him he would do to Ibrox if he was messed with? Raze it to the ground, apparently. After Newco Youth Team has spent a year-or-so bouncing around, we’ll hear that Ibrox is unsustainable as a football stadium (which I could believe). It will be razed and re-designated as an industrial area.
Celtic better have their plans in place now, as should the rest of Scottish football. There was a notion that there would be a three year hiatus before it was business as usual. This will not be the case.
We need to stand together, as a club, and with other clubs, wherever possible. We need to support the game, primarily through season ticket purchases, but we must find common ground with other clubs and fans.
Leppings Lane
Everything was wrong about football back then. Stadiums were not so much designed, they were built to fit the space and available materials. The lower Leppings Lane end of Hillsborough will be remembered as the worst terracing in football but, in truth, it was just where the next big disaster happened. It could have been anywhere.
After a decade or so of football hooliganism in England, fans were penned in, 8’ fences blocked entrance to the field, some topped with barbed wire. If you were at the fence, you were staying there until the thousands behind you headed home. Hampden Park had these fences, a legacy of the 1980 Cup Final, but they were absent from other grounds in Scotland. The Jungle had some high fencing but with regular breaks. If you wanted to get onto the field, you could do so.
Leppings Lane had further chronic safety violations. As well as a fence at the front the terrace was divided into four pens with fences running back to front. Once through the turnstile, fans were free to choose which pens to join; most would choose the central two. Of course they would.
The central two pens were accessed via a tunnel running under the upper stand. On That Day, fans entering at the rear of the tunnel had no inclination of the crush ahead. By the time they were part of the crush, others had gathered behind them. Space to retreat was quickly lost.
The outer pens were empty, the central two, death-traps. Fans piling into the tunnel knew nothing of the crisis ahead.
For some minutes it was possible for the police to burst open the pens and allow fans to flood free onto the pitch but they were still in crowd control mode. By the time they realised there was a disaster underway, it was too late.
There were lies and cover-ups. Fans were blamed, and accused of atrocious acts, all untrue. The government were complicit. The Sun were the worst media offenders but by no means the only one.
Two weeks ago a fresh inquiry into the events of that day opened in Warrington. At long last, the truth, which we’ve all known for years, will out. Too late for many campaigners and bereaved, who died fighting the combined weight of the establishment, but welcome nonetheless.
Tomorrow, CQN’er, Iain McGovern, sets off on a 232 mile walk from Celtic Park to Anfield, where he hopes to arrive 11 days later, in aid of the Lola Commons Fund for SiMBA. It’s his way of commemorating Hillsborough. Supporting him could be yours.
I’m delighted (actually excited) to confirm John Hughes will be on the blog on Thursday morning. John is Celtic’s seventh highest goal scorer in our 126 year history. He has remarkable insights into some of the great times and characters of our history. Tune in and ask him questions online.
[calameo code=000390171b8e5a2cffbcc lang=en page=114 hidelinks=1 width=100% height=500]
828 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- ...
- 15
- 16
- 17
- 18
- 19
- 20
- 21
- 22
- »
Interesting post from TSFM re Celtic’s pronouncements on the team that plays from Ibrox;
“ecobhoy says:
You know, the more I look at the developing chaos at Ibrox – financial and otherwise – then the more I think that Celtic are playing a very diplomatic game.
Smoke signals are coming from Parkhead – often at arms’ length from the senior executives or major shareholders – which ‘welcome’ the return of a strong Rangers to provide ‘competition’ which is really just shorthand for making Celtic more money and this may also spread to other teams.
But everyone and their granny – including every thinking Bear – knows that it might even be a decade before Rangers again becomes a force in Scottish Football and I don’t think it’s being over-pessimistic to question whether it can ever do so.
I can well understand the Bears hanging onto the cargo cult mirage of the Sugar Daddy for the simple reason that without such a ‘Saviour’ the Rangers finances will be terrible for a long, long time with virtually no possibility of buying the players needed and being able to pay them the going rate. Even if they make it to the top League they could just become a bottom end team making-up the numbers which also would create serious financial pressures in terms of ST sales.
If I had anything to do with the management/ownership of Celtic I would be extending the hand of friendship to Rangers and expressing the wish that they will be back in the top flight offering income-generating opportunities. Sometimes it is wiser to stand back with clean hands and let a totally defeated or discredited foe commit harakiri.
This is not necessarily my personal opinion but I can see the ‘political’ and financial sense behind the scenario and it has the added bonus of clipping the wings of those in power at Hampden with an unhealthy interest in Rangers when Celtic are being so friendly and reasonable to an old foe who has been struck-down and torn-apart on the financial battlefields and may even be mortally wounded.
Celtic’s Compassion, whether interpreted as false by some cynics, is still a noble sentiment and should be recognised, at the very least IMO, as being diplomacy in action in the often turbulent waters of West Central Scotland.
Of course many people will have differing views on this and, as always, what will be, will be :lol: “
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS ………Praying for our WEE HERO!
09:14 on
16 April, 2014
That’s a fair point. I’ll settle for holing the boat!
hen1rik
08:50 on 16 April, 2014.
———
I’m sure I read on here that if a point deduction has no effect on their league position, then the deduction automatically carries forward to the next season…then again, maybe just wishfull thinking on my part.
Just received a reply from JP Taylor “Many thanks for your email,I completely get the point with this one,however the issue is that it’s not our match. Celtic Park is a neutral venue for the City of Glasgow Schools, Glasgow Cup Final. The venue is selected by rotation and this year the venue is Celtic Park and we are provided with the match details by the organisors, in this case Glasgow Schools FA. We are merely fulfilling our obligations to promote the match
as instructed with the details provided” Make of that what you will. Hail Hail Hebcelt
sipsini
“I’m sure I read on here that if a point deduction has no effect on their league position, then the deduction automatically carries forward to the next season…then again, maybe just wishfull thinking on my part.”
That’s a Carlsberg administration por cierto….
Yeah….its a simple technique.
Just keep repeating the lie, keep repeating it, and repeat it again.
Hitler was very good at it.
HH
Tony Stokes , Diplomat or Tony Stokes , Piss taker?
Good to see that you received a reply – I emailed Celtic last year re the final at Firhill, asking why the website was referring to Rangers and not “the Rangers”. I’ve still to receive a reply.
So, Celtic are presumably contractually obliged to use on the website the publicity info that is supplied to them.
Sorry, my last post was addressed to Hebcelt
cultsbhoy
09:31 on 16 April, 2014
Tony Stokes , Diplomat or Tony Stokes , Piss taker?
Or….. Buster Brady Heidthebaw?
;-)
HH jamesgang
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS ………Praying for our WEE HERO!
08:22 on 16 April, 2014
natknow – supporting wee oscar
17:01 on 15 April, 2014
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS ………Praying for our WEE HERO!
14:41 on
15 April, 2014
NATKNOW
Can you-or someone who knows you-make May 10?
If so,job done.
——————————–
What’s happening May 10th? And where?
~~~~~~~~~~++~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry,bud. I missed this yesterday.
A few of us are having a wee social teadance-type thingy in Glasgow that afternoon.
All are welcome!
If you mail me at
bmcuwp@gmail.com
I’ll reply with the details.
—————————————————–
Emailed you bud.
Celtic have no alternative but to call the new club by the name its given name.
The fact that the new club was formed less than 2 years ago is irrelevant.
The new club purchased the trade marks of Rangers FC, uses them, and is permitted to. The new club applied to join and was admitted as a member of the Scottish Football League, and started playing official matches in the SFL 3rd division.
Indeed, prior to its very first fixture, versus Brechin in the Ramsden’s Cup, the Administrators of Rangers plc wrote to the football authorities requesting, and were granted, players registered to Rangers FC permission to play for ‘Sevco Scotland Ltd’, the acquisition of the company name “The Rangers Football Club” occurring subsequently.
Its legal name is now The Rangers Football Club Ltd. It was changed from Sevco Scotland Ltd by ‘deed poll’ following acquisition of the relevant rights. It trades as Rangers FC, as the law permits.
Gretna FC 2008 is a similar case with one exception: Gretna FC 2008 was formed by the fans of Gretna FC following the liquidation of their club. Whereas Sevco Scotland Ltd purchased the intellectual properties of Rangers FC from its liquidators, the fans of Gretna FC 2008 did not. They are therefore not permitted to use the name and marks of the liquidated club. Although informally they refer to their club Gretna FC, all official publications refer to Gretna FC 2008, because that’s the club’s given name.
Gretna FC 2008 applied to and was admitted as a member of the East of Scotland League. It subsequently applied to and was admitted as members of the Scottish Lowland League where it currently competes, and there is hope that the ‘pyramid’ system will facilitate its rise into the SPFL in due course of time.
At the time of establishing Gretna FC 2008, Anton Hodge, secretary of the Gretna Supporters Society Ltd which owns the new club, said: “We are obviously a new club carrying on the traditions of the old club and there is no connection with the old club other than the similarity in name.”
I reckon in due course of time, the supporters will acquire the trade marks of the liquidated club and rebrand as Gretna FC, following which official references to the club will follow suit, as has recently occurred with Airdrie United (formerly Clydebank FC) acquiring the right to the name of the liquidated Airdieonians.
None of which implies or expresses any view other than Gretna FC 2008 is a new club, and similarly, Rangers FC is a new club, similarly (and in some aspects regrettably) “carrying on the traditions of the old club”.
Referring to a club by its given name is a formality required by all member clubs, Celtic being no different.
The Green Man –
Ok I am calling on Godwin’s Law. You lose the argument.
Bye!
:-)
NATKNOW
Thanks,bud.
Reply sent.
HH
To be brutally honest as much as it pains me to say it Rangers can call themselves what they want.
I believe the name they have adopted is The Rangers. Not that I have ever seen it used. The proper name of Hearts is Heart of Midlothian but it is seldom used in it’s full form.
I do think Celtic should be asking the SFA for clarification on what this club are officially to be called.
Whether they should ever have been allowed to reform in the same jersey, same club crest, same stadium, etc etc is another matter they have been allowed and they do exist as a new club.
They should not be able to ‘buy’ or keep the previous clubs history and I suspect that if Rangers (oldco) lose the big tax case then the pressure will be on the SFA to strip titles because not only have they broken the law but have also cheated.
If the SFA do not strip trophies and titles then the pressure will then turn back to Celtic and the pressure from the Celtic support will be on the club to take the SFA to court.
I think until this happens Celtic hands are tied.
I have said before that this is a long process. The oldco of Rangers has not even completed liquidation proceedings yet.
I’m not sure about the youth set up and how they are structured. I had a look on William Hill online last night and Celtic’s under 20 team were losing 1-0 and were listed as Celtic Glasgow U20’s. I thought that was highly unusual but also maybe gives an insight that the youth side may not have the same name as the senior team. Can anyone shed any light on this or is it just W Hills getting it wrong?
I can see what people are saying regarding the u17 game but in the grand scheme of things I would rather the club were working on positive things like improving facilities and signing players than answering complaints BUT I would never encourage people not to complain as it is their right to do so.
We need to be brutally honest here. Even if they lose the big tax case, get titles stripped, get forced to change their badge and jersey, get forced to sell Ibrokes and play elsewhere, get forced to give up their history and change their name to Rangers Utd the press and everyone else in football will call them Rangers.
It would be so much easier if everyone just called them the Huns that they are.
Just wanted to add in my tuppence worth on this one.
LB
I don’t care what they are called, as I have a variety of names for them.
But the cheating they are doing, is so blatant, that its laughable.
Is there nobody on the Celtic board that will speak the truth?
If not, you have to wonder why.
You turn a blind eye to corruption, then you are equally responsible for it.
Is there anyone who will tell it like it is?
If not, tell me why.
HH
TBB so what would be thev reprecussions if Celtic called them “The Rangers”? Hail Hail Hebcelt
Gold Coast Tom,
If he had said Goebbels rather than Hitler (more accurate, I believe), would you have continued the argument and, if so, what would you have said?
GCT
So, some nonsense about Godwin, proves what?
Oh I get it, you are assuming that I have no knowledge of Godwin( who was in fact a lackey of the establishment)
What I said stands, you condone corruption, you are equally responsible imo
HH
Some amount of hysteria on the blog about “The” Rangers with occasional outbursts of sanity like the post by The Battered Bunnet at 09.37.
Funny how most of this happens in the wee small hours and most of it by UK based posters. Maybe a wee shandy or two has been taken?
Is Stokesy taking the piss?
Are Celtic as Dharma Bam \o/ stands up for Neil Lennon post at 09.19 taken from TSFM playing this well?
I personally believe yes and can you imagine the threats there would be to Celtic employees if they were to state the Huns are deid? Bombs and bullets in the post anyone?
I said it last week and will say it again. I renewed my ticket for myself and Mrs RobinBhoy because I love the Celtic.
If you love the Celtic and can afford to or are physically able to support your team next year, renew or buy a season ticket.
If you don’t, then don’t but don’t come on here and patronise us who do with, “I will only buy a season ticket if” then name your preconditions…Celtic buy a £10 million striker, Celtic squash the SFA, Celtic state the Huns are deid etc………
If you cant afford a ticket then there will be CQN’ers who can make game who will be able to help with tickets for occasional matches as many have done on here.
Back to work rant over…………
RobinBhoy
From Twitter;
The RIFC 2012 reveal their new sponsor for next season
http://t.co/4O0nQj8p45
The Green Man snd Dharms Bam
Come on guys I wad having a laugh there. Hence the wee smiley.
GCT
Just so that you know, at this very moment, im reading A Radical History of Britain by Edward Vallance, which happens to discuss Godwin in detail.
So, whats your point….do you have a superior intelligence?
Wake up
HH
Livibhoy
Good points well made.
But I know you’ll be the first to appreciate how much it sticks in craw when comments like those made by Stokes yesterday (and those from many others far higher up the CFC food chain) serve to reinforce the ‘business as usual ASAP please’ spin that the MSM are so busy peddling.
If we can’t comment, we shouldn’t comment. We certainly should be complicit in a corporate love-in with a team that cheated us and every other team for years. The more so as there’s been no acceptance of that guilt or hint of remorse from them. They feel hard done by! You couldn’t make it up! But they did. And comments like those made yesterday add unwarranted credibility.
Aff oot. Arrived in the Burg for a day of meetings.
HH jamesgang
the battered bunnet
09:37 on 16 April, 2014
I did NOT appreciate that……i thought the new brand name was announced as having ‘The’ in front of it, to distinguish them from oldco …….. Is this all part of the 5-way agreement we’re not allowed to know the detail of…..?
….anyway, thank you for allowing me to calm down until I hear back from JPT…
Some moon-howlers were saying we should give up the domestic prize money, for the good of the game in this Country….hahahahahahaha …… Fekin’ hilarious …… What next, hand the SPFA some of our SB money…..??
TBB
Ok fair enough and thank you for explaining that.
However, the worry and problem for many supporters is that it if Celtic say nothing about this being a new club it supports the Hun claim to being the same club; it lends credence to accusations that Celtic are keen to perpetuate the ‘Old Firm’ brand and it calls into question just how our club perceive this new entity.
RobinBhoy,
Good contribution, however aren’t you imposing conditions on people yourself in your post about people who impose conditions?
(My head’s nipping.)
GCT
Tom, you got me there:)
HH
ROBINBHOY
I posted overnight that the only straw the huns can cling to is that they take us with them,or damage us as much as possible.
I’m not wholly in agreement with official policy over the last few years,nor is Peter Lawwell on my Christmas card list.
But IMO the last thing any Celtic supporter should even be considering is chucking it because of the huns,in any way.
The Green Man –
Not a problem mate.
BMCUW
Bobby….its hard to watch the blatant cheating.
Its totally doing my head in.
HH
Gold Coast Tom, I didn’t ask my question as a form of intimidation, I wanted to know what you would have said.
I’m with HamiltonTim on this. However, are Celtic perceived as sinning by omission by this stance or are we playing the long game and making the right noises while the team that plays at Ibrox slowly eat themselves up?
GOLD COAST TOM
Nae luck,bud. Seems you’re about as good as I am wi them smiley things!
The written words don’t quite impart the nuances so well as face-to-face discussion.
Dharma Bam \o/ stands up for Neil Lennon
Too complicated for me mate! :-0))
Better get some work done!
I also didn’t notice the smiley 8-o}
the battered bunnet
09:37 on 16 April, 2014
A very well constructed and informative post , my problem is not what the NEW club call themselves as such but more about their claim to the OLD clubs history.
That’s the deal breaker for me .
RobinBhoy,
just that you said people couldn’t comment here on Celtic unless they bought a ticket in the same post that you complained about people who imposed conditions on Celtic before they bought a season ticket.
(Head nipping slightly less now I’ve thought it through)
THE GREEN MAN
Oh aye,indeed it is.
And if it were all looking like being successful,I would be even more angry about it than I am.
If revenge is a dish best served cold,we are in for a gourmet feast the likes of which even WHITEDOGHUNCH would appreciate.
I honestly cannot see a way out for them. The only glue holding them together is their ‘Big Hoose’
Once that is taken from them and they have to start again,really be honest,how many do you think will be interested?