Tomorrow Celtic have a Scottish Cup tie away to Peterhead, currently second bottom of the Third Division. Peterhead have recorded their only two home wins of the season in the last two weeks, so Celtic’s scouts will have seen them at their best, but the break from league action will allow Neil Lennon to rest players who have been carrying niggling injuries, including James Forrest, whose terrific form could be jeopardised by the stresses of carrying such a prominent responsibility for Celtic.
The game in Peterhead will also give fringe players an opportunity to shine. I suspect Paddy McCourt is still carrying the can for hitting the post against St Johnstone in August, the day it all started to go wrong. We’ve missed him. Emilio Izaguirre and Kelvin Wilson would also benefit from 90 minutes football as the squad reassembles itself, although the game might come too soon for Kris Commons.
News that Beram Kayal’s injury is likely to keep him out of action for four months was sickening. This is the third serious injury Beram has suffered since joining Celtic 18 months ago. I read a bit about grade 3 eversion ankle sprains yesterday. He’ll need the best treatment and recuperation in the days and months to come.
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James
Membership of the SFL, per my earlier post, also confers the same membership of the SFA.
Just to be clear, like.
James Forrest is Lennon says:
7 January, 2012 at 16:50
Newco would still need a license from the SFA under SFA licensing procedures. This is different from a UEFA license but those rules will not apply as I understand there is a three year wait for new clubs to play in Europe.
Sir Paul
Why are thur sae miny Guys oan here who
FEAR THE G.A.?
Yep..
When ye pull back the Curtain..o’ Flannel…
Lo an Behold!
It is Pure Paralyzin’ Fear..
That is Behind this plaintive cry …fae the CQN Subscribers
who are behavin’ like Scaredy Cats.. when they chorus..
“We must No Allow the G.A. tae Return!”
should they be thrown oot o’ the S.P.L.
This is based,of course, oan the “Hopeful”possiblity that the G.A. wull receive a
Cripplin’ Financial Punishment fae the Inland Revenue(Which ,accordin tae the Pookah…is No a Cut and Dried Deal)
Me?
Ah dinna FEAR the G.A.
No sirreeboab!
Ah say…
Who cares aboot them..
If They Stay… so Be it..
Ah am in the George Bush Camp.. in this..
Ah say..
“Bring IT ON!!”
Whenever , we meet that Ibrox Scum.
Kojo
James Forrest@16:56
Resignation from the SPL. You have hit the nail on the head. It is still in Celtic’s hands
If the SPL won’t do the decent thing, then burst their bubble
ßjmac ♥ Kano 1000 °¿° says:
7 January, 2012 at 16:56
I would be astounded if they are not well aware of the issues. They have done a lot of work to try and restore confidence in the integrity of the game. They do so because it is in Celtic’s best interests.
No integrity, no game.
The Battered Bunnet:
Thanks for that mate.
Membership of the SFL, SPL, SFA or not, none of it matters. As I said previously, the second a club enters liquidation all bets are off. The second it happens everyone moves up one place, a place in the SFL becomes available and that is the place a NewCo Rangers would have to take.
This is not difficult to comprehend, and Keevins talking about a deal is to talk about a corrupt stitch-up which effectively absolves a club of a multi-million pound debt, the direct result of cheating and fraud.
How could anyone argue this game had any integrity left after that?
Does anyone know, offhand, what the consequences for individual clubs would be if they lost TV money and 2 Rangers gates for three seasons?
Doubtless some would be in serious trouble … but how much trouble?
Would those losses be greater or less if Celtic fans boycotted the grounds of the clubs involved?
There are also questions regarding Craig Whyte’s ability to rescue the club as a NewCo, as he was the owner at the time of liquidation. SFA regulations seem to rule that out completely, but then they appear to rule out the whole NewCo scenario completely and if one is allowed I have to question if the other will be.
Am I right or can HMRC refuse to endorse Whyte’s selection of his own administrator, as they have 75% of total debt? How long could the legal battle over that last? Months? In the meantime, what happens to Scottish football?
A lot of questions. But if Celtic allow it – and no-one will convince me we cannot stop it, our vote is NOT all we have – then we will certainly go down with the ship, as the reaction of the fans will be … volcanic.
My prediction is that whatever happens with the tax case, in 5 years our biggest league games will be against a team in blue called rangers.
I’d love to see us playing in England or in some European league but, as I said, in 5 years we’ll be playing in the SPL and rangers will be our biggest rivals.
Ten Men Won The League says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:01
James Forrest@16:56
Resignation from the SPL. You have hit the nail on the head. It is still in Celtic’s hands
If the SPL won’t do the decent thing, then burst their bubble
—————————————————————————————————————–
Absolutely! I could not agree more. Never even thought of it.
If Rangers are allowed to carry on as normal straight into the spl etc etc…..Resign from the League..simple.
Its a simple black and white question (pardon the pun) but it is either Rangers or INTEGRITY for the sport! they must ask themselves this question..If the get it wrong we resign.
James Forrest is Lennon says:
7 January, 2012 at 16:56
Indeed James,I was wondering if others would rather see us stop playing in an SPL whose integrity was flawed, even if we had no where else to go.
Personally I do not see the point in playing in or paying to watch a competition that lacks integrity. I can always go watch EK Thistle.
Restoring integrity is the key issue, the question is how can it be done?
Evening folks.
Having suffered from ankle injuries myself – I know once it goes once, then twice its never the same after. I only hope private medical treatment is so far apart from the nhs that what I have said simply isnt true.
Gutted – sometimes karma looks akin to de ja vu.
Mr Paddy McCourt is a curious curious case.
It seems Paddy needs to hit atleast a 9 our of 10 each and every time he takes to the field, whether starting or as a 3rd choice substitute cameo appearance, and I dont understand it.
Samaras has hit a run of form in the past 4 or 5 games – in most of those for the 1st half only and he is the darling of the support. Scott Brown has poor games in every 2-5 appearances depending on who you ask, our centre halves rarely have great games, strikers well, strikers are strikers having off days seems to be par for the course – but oor Paddy, unless he pulls a rabbit out of the hat on every occassion it seems to put him to the back of the queue.
I know injuries play a part, however some of the already mentioned dont just walk back into the team when they are fit again, they are rushed back in.
Its great and I mean GREAT to have Izaguirre back – I dont care what he does or tries to do he has my blessing, because whatever it was or nearly was, was football in its purest sense.
Would it be too soon to put young Dylan McGeough into the starting line up? Can we afford to put him for the purposes of learning to swim in the deep end, showing the young lad how much work there is still left to do?
Strangely looking forward to the game tomorrow, because for the first time in a while – im certain compacency wont be on show.
The players seemed to forget what it was to play for Celtic over the summer – god only knows why, but they have certainly rediscovered it, id be tempted to say in abundance – but not yet..
Hail Hail
[Can I just say in the passing that today’s CQN is a rare vintage: the level of contribution (all the way back to the wee sma’ oors) is just superb.]
With specific reference to the notion of Celtic threatening to resign from the SPL in the event of a derisory punishment being visited on the Foe Malign or its offspring: how would that actually work: could the Board announce this without recourse to the wider shareholders?
FF
Yes INTEGRITY for the beautiful game is our only concern..If this goes the wrong way, then we do not have a sport.If the worst case scenario happens then we need to be serious about resigning and shining a bright light throughout the sporting world on this issue..
WE are the draw to scottish football..without CELTIC there isnt a game in this backwater.
All we ask is for the fair punishment.We cannot be punished for theyre financial doping.
Hey~
Haud oan a Minute~
Did Someone .Mention..
INTEGRITY~?
Whit’s That?
Gie us a Break.. fur Molly and the Kids Sake!
When that Woid.. “INTEGRITY”— comes up..
it is time tae chinge the Subject!
Kojo
Andre Villas-Boas + Marcello Lippi to do the SC fifth round draw on Monday afternoon
I kid you not
Sandaza’s wage if he goes to the Bigotdome? A whopping £5k a week
Remember the days when Moonbeams would trump our offers for players just to annoy us?
I would offer Sandaza £8k a week just to up the ante
Game time for the fringe players – definitely not, maybe once the result is secured we could bring a few on, but not before. Neil has said he won’t be treating Peterhead lightly, quite right, maybe at Parkhead we could but certainly not away from home on a tight pitch in the freezing cold with a swirlin wind. Clyde is still way too fresh in my memory as is that mob from the Highlands.
Auld Neil Lennon heid:
Mate, this would be different if Rangers were going to the wall and this was a vote to save their very existence. I would not be in favour of supporting it any more than I would have voted to bail out the banks – hey, isn’t that the essence of capitalism? That the strong survive, that if you make mistakes you pay etc … ?
This vote is NOT about the very existence of Rangers. Not one of us believes they will not return in some form. Not one of us.
This is about the integrity of the game, and it is perfectly valid for Rangers to start in the Third Division. If they are well run, and do their business on the pitch with efficiency, they will return to the SPL soon enough. We are not talking about voting to kill them. I would vote for that, I will be honest … but that is not at stake.
Would I be in favour of us having nowhere to play? I don’t think it is in an issue, and I’ll be frank about that. I would submit our notice from the Scottish game with immediate effect, and if Rangers NewCo kept its titles and history I would further ask that we resign from the SPL, apply for the open position in the SFL and play the reminder of our time in Scotland in the lower leagues, and deny the SPL our commerce for the whole of that period too.
In two years time, if we had nowhere else to go, I would have us play our last season in the SFL in the full knowledge that teams in the SPL had gone to the wall, that clubs had actually died, that Rangers themselves, denied three years European football and the financial benefits of playing in the same league as us had been almost fatally hampered in the meantime, hoping for promotion to a league where we would certainly be the dominant power.
The SPL would be transformed either way. It can be transformed in a manner which reflects well on it, and brings credit to it, or we can show the league up as a discredited, corrupt joke where fraud has been legitimised and clubs can defraud the tax payer, and be transformed by our refusal to take part.
In the event we did these things not only would I not turn my back on the club, but I would embrace it more tightly than ever. I would not miss a match. I would give everything I could to assure our financial well-being in the interim.
Let me say now though, that I do not believe returning to the SPL would happen for us. I have long argued England does not want us because of the baggage we bring. That baggage, not to put too fine a point on it, is Rangers. I would suggest that if we were not tied down with them we would find friends we never knew we had.
We would enhance the English game. Everyone there knows it.
And I say we test that theory to the full.
Did someone just say up the ante….?
Ten Men Won The League says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:21
With both Diawara and Rhodes seemingly out with our price range, perhaps Sandanza is the third choice and even at £10k a week could be worth a punt, at least he would be better than Bangura.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Guidi like to throw around his “mullions” does he not.
During the week, rangers were going to settle for “£5,£6,£8 million”, today Champoins league money is worth “£10 , £12 million”
That’s a swing of £5million in 2 (inaccurate) stories
Lazy journalism at its best
Auldheid
You say you don’t see the point of playing in or paying to watch a competition that lacks integrity.
I imagine few of us would disagree with that sentiment.
And that restoring integrity is the key issue.
So how can that be done … by or through Celtic? Not very likely, given that Celtic is a plc.
I can’t imagine Dermot Desmond penning a resignation letter.
Can enough fans organise themselves behind a unifying flag?
Not an easy task, even amongst the most fervent of CQNers … !
FF
Ten Men Won The League
Glen loovens…
Lennybhoy@17:26
Diawara is not out of our price range. Don’t believe the hype. He is THE striker Lenny wants. It is PL’s job to go and secure him.
He won’t though. We will sell first before we buy even though we could afford him
Those 25 room mansions in an upmarket suburb need big bonuses to pay the leccy! :)
notthebus@17:31
I should have added that i don’t advocate us signing Sandaza. I don’t rate him at all but it would make the Huns up his wage offer:)
Strange – Radio Clyde discussing Rangers via an e-mail from a listener in England rather than a direct call.
Discussion now swiftly focussed on to Hearts.
James Forrest is Lennon says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:23
I agree with 99% of what you say. I am still not convinced that the final outcome is the EPL. I am not so sure we would be welcome. You are still asking turkeys to vote for Christmas and English turkeys at that.
I would like to think our stand for integrity would alter peoples minds but I do not see a great deal of integrity in the EPL.
That apart I agree with your stated course of action.
Sorry for the re-post it was at the end of the last article.
I have been thinking. I do not know the answer but maybe some of our lernered friends on here (or on the RTC blog) will have some answers.
Is there any competition law rules that could apply? I am just thinking if there was any legal risk to the boards of clubs voting to have Newco back in the SPL?
E-mail on Clyde just then should be noted.
Guy asked that, since Keevins has mooted a grubby deal – sorry haha, a “diplomatic compromise” – that what happens if NewCo Rangers, having suffered a points deduction and with no first team squad, suffered relegation … would they be saved by the need to keep the TV deal?
Unbelievably, Keevins said that in THOSE circumstances the club, and the league, would have to “bite the bullet” as to allow them to stay in the league would “destroy our credibility” and make the league a “laughing stock.”
Just what does he think allowing a corrupt, tax-dodging deal would make us?
Ten Men Won The League says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:33
notthebus@17:31
I should have added that i don’t advocate us signing Sandaza. I don’t rate him at all but it would make the Huns up his wage offer:)
———————–
I have a feeling that it would take Jelavic and at least one other big earner to go before Swally would get funds for Sandaza.
Wull Peterheid.. Roll over.. and Cry “Uncle”?
or wull they…
Swing the Boot… Pull the Joisey… Breenge the Goalie…
Cripple us. GOOD?
Me?
Ah think ,Peterheid , wull dae the latter.
We should be very wary o’ pittin any o’ oor Prized Players
in oor Line- Up , fur THAT Crushin’ Confronto…in
Northern Caledonia!
They hiv nothin tae lose, and Ah shudder tae Think wit they wull dae wi young James or Young Adam.. if we are silly enuff tae Pit eethur o’ them in the Line-Up, the morrow.
The Peterheid Game could pit the Peter…oan oor League Hopes.
if we are no careful.
We hiv seen whit.. the G.A. did tae wan o’ oor Best Players.
Fur Kayal Suffered….A Pure Calculated Injury
And Adam.. wiz Lucky that He wisnae.. well.. Unlucky…
as the result of the Attempt tae Cripple him, an awe.
There is an auld saying.. that’s..well.. said..
Aroon the Campfires..
“If Ye Canny beat them Fairly.. then beat them… UNFAIRLY!”
Right?
Damn Right!
Kojo
Keevins is a cracker
If Rangers Newco got relegated then they’d have to take that form of medicine as we’d be a laughing stock of maintaining a league for the benefit of one club and four televised matches.
So what’s the difference between that scenario and them having to start in division 3?
The latter keeps the integrity of the league structure. A free pass back to the top is a filthy attempt to placate a bunch of horribles and the TV deal is a huge smokescreen.
McCall pipes in and says Celtic and Hibs fans shouldn’t be rejoicing, it will be bad for the league bla bla bla.
1980s
No TV contract
Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee United contest the first 6 league titles
Attendances go up
Scottish players develop and get sold on for big fees spreading the wealth around the game
Yes, we really need Rangers.
Folly Folly says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:30
There are rules of conduct that come with being a PLC that have helped maintain Celtic’s integrity, so I do not see how changing our status in that respect would be an integrity restoring factor.
Had Rangers been a PLC they would not be in their current position, nor I suspect would Hearts.
James
From your last post, the issue of timelime jumps right out.
The later the decision is taken to appoint a Receiver in the first instance, the more likely it is that Rangers will default on the requirements for a Club Licence for the following season.
Remember, each club requires to present financial statements demonstrating that they have the wherewithal to complete their fixture obligations for the coming season.
Let’s say the FTT returns bad news for Rangers in March, and a Receiver is appointed in April. His job is completed once the debt owed to the Floating Charge Holder (Whyte/Wavetower) is satisfied.
At that point, when Whyte/Wavetower have been paid down, say around mid May, an Adminstrator will be appointed by the Courts to protect what remains of the company from the remaining creditors. (Whyte has just exited stage left remember, but will he take Cash or the Stadium in settlement?)
The biggest of these creditors will be HMRC, but there will also be a huge value of other creditors queuing up for their dough, perhaps £100m worth. Unless the Adminstrator can negotiate a settlement (CVA) that satisfies 75% of the creditors, he will be forced to liquidate the company. A CVA cannot be agreed without the agreement of HMRC given the size of their debt being greater than 25% of the total owing at that point. No HMRC, no Quorum.
Looking at similar deals elsewhere, it will take something like 6-8 weeks to make the necessary arrangements to call for a meeting of creditors to vote on a CVA proposal. We’re now at the start of next season. It’s unlikely to pass first time around.
If the CVA is successful, it will likely place a forward burden on the company stretching out over years. Rangers will remain in Adminstration until the last of the debts under the CVA are satisfied. Motherwell took 2 years to exit this process. Portsmouth’s deal is 5 years long. Even with the agreement of the creditors, Adminstration for Rangers will last years, not weeks.
Of course, if a CVA cannot be agreed, it’s liquidation in the interests of the creditors. This seems most probable, but the timing of it will likely be after the season has started. Prior to this Rangers’ Adminstrator will have had to have satisfied the SPL and SFA that he has the financial resources to complete all fixtures in the coming season. He cannot provide this unless he has a CVA. Rangers are thus cooked before the season starts, and the SPL/SFL/SFA will require to manage the uncertainty in the meantime.
Now throw in to this timeline the incorporation of Newco, and the negotiation of use of the stadium with the new owner, and recruitment of players, staff and managers, plus the myriad tasks required to set up and operate a new company. If it was a straighforward pre-pack from May, it could be done, but a pre-pack has huge challenges given the creditor list, and will most likely be challenged through the courts. Not a speedy process!
On balance, it is possible that there will be a twilight period where Oldco is not yet officially being wound up, Newco is not officially sanctioned, and the season has kicked off without them.
There is a chance that next season will start with no Huns in Scotland.
What then for those who advocate continuity?
Hmmmm
Lads did any of you listen to Clyde there?
The old media as I said earlier pleading with every fan to let newco in.
The last 15 minutes on radio snyde has been an absolute hoot…….oh, that it should come to this….!!!!…..”Celtic and Hibs fans should not rejoice in the deise of r & h..”…………LOL….!!!!
Then keevins gives us a gem….
“Celtic and rankers……oh, sorry, rankers and Celtic, FOR THOSE WHO DON’T LIKE THE NORMAL ALPHABETIC PROTOCOL”…………belly laugh….!!!!!…….he actually felt the need to say rankers before Celtic……..what a small-minded lot they all are…..Hail Hail to the grand old Glasgow Celtic….!!!!
Ten Men Won The League says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:31
I believe Diawara is not out of our range. However, my information is that Neil’s interest may have cooled but if we want him we can get him.
The point here is that somebody took the decision to take Bangura in the summer and wait until now to get Diawara. The wrong decision in my view.
Maritimo have started a bidding war, something we are not particularly interested in. I don’t know where Diawara will end up but would not be surprised to see him in Greece of all places.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
The Battered Bunnet says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:40
I agree the timescale of these things cannot be assured to fit into a football timeline. I do not think the Hmrc are going to do Rangers or Cheating Rangers 2012 any favours.
This is where CW “plans” do not work in the football world.
Snake Plissken says:
7 January, 2012 at 17:40
I heard that too. Doublethink and its 1984.
The problem is that Keevins and co are PART of the problem. You cannot resolve a problem with the mindset that created it.
What Keevins and co have is a platform from which to spout their mad ideas. They can only be countered on line and corrections on phone ins, although they are in control there.
What has not entered the public arena for discussion is that Rangers did not only live beyond their means, it is that (if HMRC win) they defrauded taxpayers on top of that. rather than pay their dues they paid players, and even after they knew they might be asked to pay back unpaid dues they STILL continued to pay for players. This point needs to be hammered home.
They will not discuss the moral aspect of this (I tried) for it torpedoes any idea of any “diplomatic” solution. In diplomacy one side gives up something in return for something else. Rangers have nothing to give up, unless you take a promise to stop cheating as a surrender of something they value.
I’ll be listening for you making the moral point :)
Snake Plissken:
Well said fella. I would add to that the utter absence of tears, wailing, gnashing of teeth, and even sympathy, for Celtic in 1994, when, purely through bad management and amatuerish organisation we ran into difficulty. Certainly, no-one would dare suggest we “bought” our way into trouble or .. haha … success.
This is a club which ran up incalculable debt to win leagues, and now wants to duck out of it as if nothing had happened.
As to rejoicing …
I am reminded of the scene from Munich, where the team is celebrating their first killing. Carl asks them why they are celebrating such a thing, and Avner tells a story about how, after the Egyptians drowned in the Red Sea, God saw some of his followers celebrating the event. He asks how they can celebrate such a thing, and they tell him “When our enemies hear what has happened they will understand your point ….” Says someone at the table, “Which was?”
“Don’t @@@@ with the Jews.” Steve responds, and then adds. “I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m not celebrating … I’m goddamned rejoicing.”
I understand his point a bit better today.
Don’t @@@@ with the Celtic haha.