Surprised? Well, yes. This was a no-contest early-on in Maribor last week. Even though Celtic didn’t come home with the win, the chances, balance of possession and play, were well in their favour. A defeat last night was never out of the question, but it was the nature of the defeat that was most concerning. We were second best in defence, midfield and attack.
Pre-match, Ronny told us he expected Maribor to sit in and counter-attack. They didn’t, forcing Celtic into disarray. We were fortunate to go in level at halftime; I was screaming out for a tactical change from 20 minutes in.
Kris Commons proved his value. From the moment he arrived, we had an out-ball for the first time in the night, but it was not enough.
Celtic tried to qualify for the Champions League without a target man, or a striker able to play the kind of football Ronny Deila requires to play his kind of football. Stokes, Griffiths, Pukki and Balde are not an appropriate Champions League strike force, by some distance.
We have plenty of midfielders who are happy to pass and run but no one with the composure to hold the ball. Brown, Forrest and Tonev were all missing, but none will occupy the holding roles given to Kayal and Mulgrew last night. Or to Wanyama two years ago.
The defensive collapse since last season is unfathomable. Virgil van Dijk was clearly a class above, whether in defence or attack, and Mikal Lustig was also assured – it is perhaps no coincidence that we lost the goal moments after he was replaced, but Efe Ambrose and Emilio Izaguirre have returned from the World Cup in alarmingly poor form.
This is where we are. We knew this at the end of last season, perhaps Neil Lennon did too. Ronny Deila has a significant rebuilding job on his hands.
Will we make a significant moves forward this week? This season? The Europa League isn’t the cash-cow of the premier tournament, and it carries none of the glamour, but it is a competition we need to be ready for. Perhaps more importantly, qualification planning for next season’s Champions League starts now.
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Happy 6-2 Day
think someone at the bbc has been lurking
If last season’s Champions League campaign showed that Celtic had lost the ability to survive against the very best then this season’s debacle proves they cannot even now survive at a level well below the very best.
When attempting to analyse their double failure in recent weeks it’s as well to start at the beginning rather than the end and that self-inflicted horror show on Tuesday evening
To put proper context on where they are now – and how far they have been allowed to fall – you need to go back two seasons to their first bow in this competition under Neil Lennon.
The Champions League is a brutal testing ground where so many things have to go right if teams like Celtic are to prosper.
Celtic ‘not good enough’ for Champions League
In 2012-13, they had an outstanding goalkeeper, steely concentration and organisation in defence, midfield spoilers that stood toe-to-toe with outstanding rivals, an extraordinary ability to convert a freakishly high percentage of their chances – and luck.
All of those things were required to get Celtic through to the last 16. They had players who could stay focused despite having less of the ball than most of their opponents. They didn’t give away criminally soft goals or pick up daft red cards.
In their six group games they had an attacking game that was – in the ratio of opportunities created to goals scored – the most efficient in the entire competition. More ruthless than Real Madrid and Barcelona and Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund and all the others.
In the famous double-header with Barcelona they had an average of 27% possession. In the two matches they had six attempts on target compared to Barca’s 27. And yet the aggregate score was 3-3. Celtic scored from 50% of their efforts that found the target. A jaw-dropping statistic.
Wind the clock forward a season and so many of the things that went right for Celtic in 2012-13 didn’t happen in 2013-14. They still had the outstanding goalkeeper, but their defence, midfield and attack were all weaker.
Celtic summer signings
2010
Efrain Juarez (£3m), Gary Hooper (£2.4m), Beram Kayal, Anthony Stokes (£1.2m), Daryl Murphy (£800,000), Emilio Izaguirre (£600,000), Fraser Forster (loan), Cha Du-Ri, Joe Ledley, Daniel Majstorovic, Charlie Mulgrew (free). Transfer fees: £8.4m
2011
Mo Bangura (£2.2m), Victor Wanyama (£900,000), Badr El Kaddouri, Fraser Forster (loan), Adam Matthews, Dylan McGeouch, Kelvin Wilson (free). Transfer fees: £3.1m
2012
Fraser Forster (£2m), Efe Ambrose (£1.5m), Miku, Lubos Kamenar (loan), Lassad (free). Transfer fees: £3.5m
2013
Virgil van Dijk (£2.6m), Teemu Pukki (£2.4m), Amido Balde (£1.8m), Derk Boerrigter (£1m), Nir Biton (£700,000), Steven Mouyokolo (free). Transfer fees: £8.5m
2014
Jo Inge Berget, Jason Denayer, Aleksandar Tonev, Wakaso Mubarak (loan), Craig Gordon (free). Transfer fees: £0.
Lennon bought Virgil van Dijk as a partner for Kelvin Wilson, not as a replacement. Nir Bitton was a downgrade on Victor Wanyama. Teemu Pukki was brought in to fill the gap left by Gary Hooper. There was a swift erosion in quality through the spine of the team and it told.
The previous season Celtic scored nine goals and secured 10 points in the group stage. Last season they got three goals and three points and the goals they scored were courtesy of a penalty and a deflection in the win over Ajax and a consolation when already 6-0 down to Barcelona.
And this was after experiencing an almighty scare in getting to the group stage in the first place. The one result last season that should have informed their transfer strategy this season was the 2-0 play-off first-leg loss to Shakhter Karagandy which preceded a 3-0 win in Glasgow. That was the wake-up call. Or it ought to have been.
Celtic didn’t need to spend the kind of money that would have given themselves a shot at the last 16. That would have been financial madness. They needed to spend to improve a team that came perilously close to not making the last 32.
But they didn’t. Peter Lawwell, the club’s chief executive, failed to learn the lesson. He argues that much of the money that has been raised in television revenue and transfer fees has been reinvested in the team. It’s hard to see where.
On Tuesday night, Celtic went into a critical European game with Anthony Stokes as the first-choice striker and yet Stokes hasn’t scored in Europe in almost three years. Is that not proof of downsizing in microcosm?
Everybody knew what needed to be done at Celtic a year ago but the deficiencies in their team haven’t been addressed. Some attempts have been made to plug holes but the judgement has been off.
Derk Boerrigter, Pukki, Amido Balde. They have lost Georgios Samaras – a decent European operator – and replaced him with Jo Inge Berget, a loan signing from Cardiff reserves.
There is the unmistakeable – and surely unarguable – impression of a club consistently downsizing. The summer was the time to reinvigorate things and go again. Instead they lost an experienced manager and replaced him with Ronny Deila.
It’s too early to make a definite call on Deila. After all, had you judged Lennon on his early record in Europe then he wouldn’t have been around long enough to bring about a revival. Those initial qualifying failures against Braga, Utrecht and Sion were all critical stops on his journey towards success in the Champions League.
Good managers study their own blunders and learn from them. In that regard, Deila has a huge amount of material to get through. There is a lack of quality, confidence and organisation in his team that is stark.
The defence has gone backwards on his watch. The midfield is plodding save for the excellence of Callum McGregor. Berget’s arrival and elevation is bordering on the bizarre for one so ordinary. So many things have taken a step back. Maybe two steps back.
It’s been said that Celtic have now found their level in the Europa League. On current form, that’s a bit generous. Of course, you have to factor in the absence of Scott Brown and what might improvements his presence will bring, but the way they’re going there could be plenty of rough days ahead for Celtic.
The Europa League might be a secondary competition that possesses none of the glamour of the main event, but there are enough teams in there that could easily give Celtic another dose of reality unless Deila improves and better players arrive.
When the winning goal went in on Tuesday there was a shock that comes with the realisation of the doomsday scenario, but there shouldn’t have been. Celtic’s standards have been dropping since their fine run in Europe two seasons ago.
They had two shots at the Champions League and they flunked them, having been reinstated to the competition following third qualifying round opponents Legia Warsaw fielding of an ineligible player. Celtic were a goal ahead in the away legs against Legia and Maribor and yet they didn’t have the ability to take advantage.
While they’re counting their blessings that they’ve still got European football until Christmas despite having a record of two wins in six matches, it might be a decent time for the Celtic board to take a hard look at what’s happening and ask where, exactly, do they go from here.
HH
The bit i don’t understand about cutting costs at the club with the team suffering most is why does Lawell still make up towards 1m a year.
Surely a salary of 300k plus 200k for CL group play would be more in line with the cutbacks policy.
Feel for Ronny Deila , just at the club and his captain is injured,then making the biggest mistake he has made yet of having CM as captain and playing him in midfield.
Maribor did their scouting well regarding big Charlie.
Hoping the team can get over this quickly as wee Paul Hartley will have his team up for it.
KTF FANOWNERSHIP is the way forward
Joe filippi
You have clearly not read my posts…
Bawsman
09:58 on 28 August, 2014
Brilliant!!
tonydonnelly67
10:06 on 28 August, 2014
That’s the longest sentence I’ve ever read buddy :-)
Joe fillipis haircut-
I agree they need time. And money for new players which should have been forthcoming before the qualifiers.
But remember – much as we have been in transition this season, next preseason is shaping up to be even worse. Four loan players whose loan is ending, brown, kayal and commons out of contract – Ronny is being asked to do the impossible over the next couple of years with little backing from the board.
The No.13 Shorts
I agree. Whatever feelings we have about the board we must support the new manager throughout the year and give him a chance to steady the ship and get us headed in the right direction. If at the end of the year we are still adrift with no direction then we can look at replacing him but now he needs everyone’s support, especially the supporters.
He has come in at a vert difficult time with a playing squad that is imbalanced and has many players who offer little but drain the club of our precious money. He needs time to weed out the rubbish and implement his ideas.
As far as the Herald article goes the basic idea is right, Scottish football is sinking and is finding it’s level. It’s true as well that some players don’t want to come to Scotland because of the weather, the standard of the league and the wages offered but there are many who would jump at the chance to play for Celtic and for 8000-15000 pounds per week and who would do a job for us. Our challenge is to find them and buy them and stop wasting money on players who will clearly never make the grade.
JohnnyClash said @ 9:39 on 28 August, 2014:
‘Biggest problem for Celtic at the moment is not the guys who stood outside the ground calling for Lawwell to go, or the so called mineshafters who give their views on CQN or other messageboards, it’s the (tens of?) thousands who over the past few years have quietly slipped away, stopped attending games, and who frankly aren’t missing it as much as they thought.’
——————————-
I agree: I’m not a ‘mineshafter’; I’ve also got an ST and go to most home games with 2 of my kids.
This season, due to us dropping into the EL, we’re now looking at 6 Sunday fixtures between now and December. Assuming 3 of those are at home, that’s 3 home games we’ll probably miss, since our Sundays are often taken up with other commitments.
I have a feeling that next season I’ll wait to see if we manage to qualify the CL before deciding on ST renewals: since – if we even make the EL next season – it would be more cost effective for me to pay at the gate. (I can’t see there being any difficulty getting tickets for all but a few games.)
I’ll still go to as many games as I can reasonably manage, but however much I love Celtic, I love my family more; and charity begins at home …
FF
https://twitter.com/celtic__tigress/status/504921265493512192
Seems it a done deal, in Spain anyway.
Bhoys & Ghirls,
While we remain extremely disappointed with our CL exit, we are still in the Europa league which consists of some extremely good teams.
The majority of the teams in UEFA’s secondary competition are probably of a better standard that our domestic opponents. We still have a lot to play for and that is why signing Scepovic has to be a positive move.
Hopefully he will be the real deal and our rebuilding of both personnel and strategy will start now.
I for one would welcome a trip back to Seville where incidentally, IMO we had our most enjoyable season but won nothing.
For the supporters who are principally focused on balance sheets the Europa league is a poor substitute, but try telling that to the fans who backed us in Blackburn, loved us in Liverpool and the hoards who flocked to the final.
HH & KTF.
HH.
C’mon guys give Ronny a break.Just in the door and you want to kick him out,what’s happened to common decency and respect.We all know that the football played under Lenny was poor,the players were average at best,maybe not Lenny’s fault if he was refused the players he wanted.Lets get behind Ronny,let him sign his players,let him use his systems and then we can judge.To sum it up give the guy time.YNWA
Folly folly
It’s 4 home games shifted to Sunday for the EL. I’m in the same boat as you, season ticket is starting to become redundant as Sunday games are useless for me
We are all choking on the pudding that is the proof of a failed strategy.
Time for a new leader with a new strategy.
A strategy that builds on our competitive advantage not erodes it.
I’m sorry but Celtic FC are better than Maribor on every level except the pitch. We have more fans, greater turnover and a history they can only dream of.
I can accept a pumping from Barca but not from the teams we have played this year.
Maybe I just need it explained better – so come on PL let’s be ‘aving you .. I’m all ears….!
SSN trying to punt VVD for 6 million! ….. :(((
So over the last 2 years we have sold our 5 best players. Here’s the list with their replacement and score of replacements success /10
Forster – £10m
Gordon – £0
Success – 9/10
Early stages yet for CGs fitness but replacing one top class keeper for another for a £10m (well £7.5m) profit is excellent business
Hooper – £5.5m
Pukki? – £2m
Success – 1/10
I’m not convinced Pukki was brought in to replace Hooper, meaning we haven’t replaced 30 goals for the third transfer window. Inexcusable
Samaras – Free
Berget – Loan
Success – 3/10
I can never get my head around not renewing Sammy’s contract for £20k pw, Berget isn’t a direct replacement but looks OK. Still our best European performer over the last 2-3 years has been allowed to go for nothing and not replaced
Ledley – £750k
Johansen – £1m?
Success 5/10
Ledley is a better player than Johansen, and a different type as in he doesn’t lose the ball. Whilst SJ is okay, still not good enough to replace a player of JLs quailty.
Wanyama £12.5m
Bitton ? £1m
Success 3/10
Okay no qualms with selling VW for £12.5m, we all would have accepted that offer! But he hasn’t been replaced with a strong physical midfield enforcer. Bitton plays a similar position but to lesser effect and without the physical presence. Not good enough to get £12.5m and not spend say £3-4m on a replacement
HH
C’mon the Hoops.
That is all.
with regard to loan signings does anyone think the same as me that due to the failures and wasted money for last seasons summer signings (pukki, derk and balde) the board are reluctant to spend cash up front this year and prefer a loan signing so we can see how the player fits in then we have the option to buy.
I don’t care wbout Van Gaal and what should happen to him. I do care that the current management duo have failed spectacularly with their selection and formations thus far. Wednesday night should give real cause for concern on that front. Persisting with players who continually give the ball away in positions that immediately create chances for the other side reveals either an undesired stubborness or lack of awareness, cf Ambrose, Mulgrew
The blame for our defeat on Tuesday lies with the team manager and the players.
Manager announced to the world his approach to the game and having heard him Maribor adapted accordingly.
Manager failed to adapt accordingly.
Players failure to pass to a team mate and to miss clear goal scoring opportunities.
Manager made substitutions which reminded some of us of General Hogmanay Melchett.
Peter Lawwell, SSM, may be blamed for many things but the manner of our defeat on Tuesday was down to those wearing strips and track suits.
Regardless of budgets, bonuses or brigades, all we needed was a draw !
Folly Folly
10:32 on
28 August, 2014
On the other hand the Sundays suit me better, because my wife is working loads of Saturdays this autumn. So it’s swings and roundabouts. Although I accept I’ll be in a tiny minority that benefits from the change.
Patrick27
Excellent illustration….
However Stepovic signing would be a move in the right direction. Need another poacher in the mould of Hooper and I’ll be delighted.
HH
blantyretim.
Are you okay to get an e-mail sometime today,I don’t want to call you as it would be a long call and my memory isn’t up to remembering what I say on a phone, it’s just some help I require.
Prepare yourselves for Sunday games
Motherwell (H) Sun 21/9
Hamilton (H) Sun 5/10
Kilmarnock (H) Sun 26/10
Aberdeen (A) Sun 9/11
St Mirren (H) Sun 14/12
A game on the 30th Nov but no league fixture showing that weekend.
VVD will go for no more than £8m, and even that will be including a lot of add-ons.
With each passing European game his value drops. Not that he has played badly v Legia and Maribor, just the team has been poor and the perception of the football up here takes a further knock. FF was sold after Legia with indecent haste as the board probably feared his value would start to decline.
According to ‘El Comercio’ #Scepovic has agreed personal terms with #Celtic and has signed a 4 year contract. http://t.co/abhsZKzDZq
cultsbhoy
Cheers, only directly replacing one of the 5 is criminal in my book
HH
News from the North….
Father and son George and Derek Adams sacked this morning at Ross County…..now to see if the BBC has it yet…..
Celtic Underground
@celticrumours Rumours we are considering sending tonev back to villa due to his injury being worse than first thought.
Why does’nt PL just advertise
PLAYERS WANTED !!!
Upto 3mill transfer and upto 25 thou a week then sift through the applicants for next year :)
So big Virgil wants away (as per SSN info) The shoite is really starting to hit the fan. Another 6 mil for PL’s to count.With the 10 mil from the FF deal, he only has the Commons 4 mil fee to sort out and thats the money lost for not qualifying for CL recouped. Well done Peter your a financial genius. Pity you have not got a clue how to run a successful football team. It’s going to be a long painfull season
Doh…..yes they have
Ross County sack manager Derek Adams and his father George.
Ross Country have sacked manager Derek Adams and his father George, who was director of football at the club.
A club statement states that the parties “have come to an agreement” and chairman Roy MacGregor says there was no imminent plan for a replacement.
Coach Steve Ferguson and captain Richie Brittain will look after the first team for Saturday’s Premiership game at Hamilton Academical.
County are without a point after four league matches this season.
Adams, 39, had two spells as a player with County, becoming player-manager in 2007, winning the Second Division and earning promotion to the First Division.
He also led the club to the 2010 Scottish Cup final, with a semi-final victory over Celtic, before losing out to Dundee United at Hampden.
Adams left the Staggies in November 2010 to join Hibernian as assistant manager to Colin Calderwood but returned to Victoria Park in May of the following year.
In his first season back, he won the First Division with five games to spare to secure the club’s first promotion to the top flight and was voted PFA Scotland’s manager of the year.
County, who were admitted to Scotland’s senior ranks in 1994, finished seventh in their first campaign in the Premiership.
George Adams, 64, took over as director of football in 2005, following youth development roles at Motherwell, Celtic and Rangers.
I hope Tony Donnelly is correct re Huns posting on here. The other option is too depressing.
Robert 88
Eastbourne.
Cheerio for now.
JJ
PS TD67
If you didn`t see my post yesterday, thanks again for your company and Bus Service ( Brilliant!!) on Tuesday.
Like some of you, I thought Hugh McDonald’s article this morning was a sterling example of succulent lamb PR spin, akin to that article I’ve widely mocked by Graham Speirs recently where he praised six years of great strategy. (Three league titles, three cups, five disastrous performances in Europe and one success, which was swiftly undone.)
McDonald even resorted to the old standby of rolling out figures and hoping his audience couldn’t count.
As one poster has already said, no-one asked for a £10 million player. None of us thinks buy a Ross McCormack is a good idea.
But I’ll tell you, I don’t think anyone, anywhere, realistically believes such a signing would cost us £20 million over four years.
£5 million a year in wages? Which translates to roughly £100,000 a week.
Pure undiluted bull.
If this is a PR piece fresh from CP then it needs work. A lot of it.
Transfer strategy is a very difficult one for a club in a small league. And let’s face it, that’s where we are. A league that is not attractive to top talent.
So we cannot attract the very top players. That gives us a number of options, that can of course be combined. We can develop our own young players. We can buy good young players and see them mature and move on. Or we can buy older journeymen players who will do ok but not really develop any further.
There are a number of different criticisms being made here of our recent transfer activity. We don’t spend enough. We don’t spend it on the right players. We don’t spend on the right positions. And all of them have some truth to them.
But the simple fact is that every signing is a gamble. For every Wanyama there is a Bangura. For every Forster there is a Balde. We have made some great signings, players who have played well and contributed on the park and given us a big profit too. But we have made some awful signing that eat up fees and wages with little return on or off the park.
So what’s the answer? Well, it would be glib to say that we should only sign players we know will succeed. But we should be working to get our success rate up. Does that mean better scouting? Making more use of former players who have knowledge of different markets? Raiding other SPFL clubs of young talent?
Rather than concentrating on how we got here I would be interested to know how CQNers think we should go forward. What would a new CEO do differently? Do we also need a Director of Football type to allow Ronny to concentrate on coaching alone?
Reading many comments on here is making me feel like we have slipped back to 2005 and 2010 simultaneously….
There appears to be a glitch in the Matrix.
We have been here before.
It’ll be ok.
Hamiltontim
08:37 on
28 August, 2014
Macjay
Let’s bang this GB boycott thing on the head.
I know several members who were in attendance on Tuesday night. Were they all there? I don’t know but neither do you.
The GB didn’t attend as a group for one simple reason, Celtic didn’t issue them with season tickets.
I’d bet after Tuesday’s result that they’ll be in the post pretty quickly though.
———————————————————————————————————————
The G.B. are a group.
Did the G.B. ,as a group,boycott the Dundee Utd. game?
Did the G.B.,as a group, boycott the Maribor game?
Now,H.T.
That`s YES or NO.
“…we are better out the champions league”
ive really heard it all now.
the whole thing really has gone boobies up.
now the support have been brainwashed enough to
come out with absolute hogwash like the above.
i really do despair. I feel as angry and upset by the whole
shambles as I was back in the Robroyston “Kelly-Dome” days
but at least then I used to wind up the huns i worked with
by puting up posters in the office of the Kellydome.
I suppose I could pin up the balance sheet…but I dont work with
any huns, it’d be only celtic men id be upsetting.
I just dont get why we are financially running so well but
are unable to do the right thing with regards to the team on the pitch….there must be a reason?