Surprised? Well, yes. This was a no-contest early-on in Maribor last week. Even though Celtic didn’t come home with the win, the chances, balance of possession and play, were well in their favour. A defeat last night was never out of the question, but it was the nature of the defeat that was most concerning. We were second best in defence, midfield and attack.
Pre-match, Ronny told us he expected Maribor to sit in and counter-attack. They didn’t, forcing Celtic into disarray. We were fortunate to go in level at halftime; I was screaming out for a tactical change from 20 minutes in.
Kris Commons proved his value. From the moment he arrived, we had an out-ball for the first time in the night, but it was not enough.
Celtic tried to qualify for the Champions League without a target man, or a striker able to play the kind of football Ronny Deila requires to play his kind of football. Stokes, Griffiths, Pukki and Balde are not an appropriate Champions League strike force, by some distance.
We have plenty of midfielders who are happy to pass and run but no one with the composure to hold the ball. Brown, Forrest and Tonev were all missing, but none will occupy the holding roles given to Kayal and Mulgrew last night. Or to Wanyama two years ago.
The defensive collapse since last season is unfathomable. Virgil van Dijk was clearly a class above, whether in defence or attack, and Mikal Lustig was also assured – it is perhaps no coincidence that we lost the goal moments after he was replaced, but Efe Ambrose and Emilio Izaguirre have returned from the World Cup in alarmingly poor form.
This is where we are. We knew this at the end of last season, perhaps Neil Lennon did too. Ronny Deila has a significant rebuilding job on his hands.
Will we make a significant moves forward this week? This season? The Europa League isn’t the cash-cow of the premier tournament, and it carries none of the glamour, but it is a competition we need to be ready for. Perhaps more importantly, qualification planning for next season’s Champions League starts now.
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Morning all.
So VvD wants CL football?
We all do!
He wont get it if he joins Sunderland, ‘tho.
Or Newcastle.
HH!!
James Forrest is praying for The Unconquerable Oscar Knox
10:53 on
28 August, 2014
I’ve got a post brewing that uses a lot more realistic figures that shows that starting from where we are now we’ll never be able to buy what we need to make CL qualification consistent. As with all this stuff it’s pure conjecture, and I’ve long argued that spending X never guarantees Y BUT I’d say a £7.5M region striker would be expecting (or at least capable of getting) £40k/week. So it’ll go on that.
As I said yesterday it horrifies me that the squad we have in place now, with the quality it contains sees the club lose roughly £10M in a season with no European football. First thing I’d do is trim it to 2 players per position and then youths.
My friends in Celtic,
Maybe on the 28th of May 2015, we will be contemplating the book.
Warsaw : the Celtic movement part 2.
How ironic is that, but that now is our aspiration.
HH.
Scepovic is absolutely needed if Deila persists with his philosophy and current tactics.
I like the guy and think he should be given time to implement his systems. I genuinely think he could transform the club.
BUT there are a few concerns. I do not believe you should play a system when you don’t have the players to play it, work towards it. I’m also concerned at how many wide players we’ve brought in. Yes we needed some width, but they can’t all play at once. The new guy plays in the same position as Berget, so what was the point in Berget… and Tonev? Derk as well has no chance now.
Also, the substitution of Kayal was a massive mistake. If he was injured or had a knock I think it would have been best to let the fans know as he was our second best player.
But the past couple of days has brought perspective, we really aren’t good enough for the CL right now, we weren’t last season either. It would be great financially, but we need to build and develop this year.
Gordon_J
For every Wanyama there is a Bangura. For every Forster there is a Balde.
Thing is, this doesn’t need to be so. Whilst it is hard to find gems like Wanyama and Forster it shouldn’t be hard to realize that Bangura and Balde should never, ever be considered as possible Celtic players. This seems to be our biggest problem. How on earth did they get on our possible signings list in the first place???
Davidopoulos:
Mate, I don’t want to seem cheeky but you and many other people on this site appear to believe – and I might be wrong here – that “faithful through and through” is a magic spell that will make all of our problems disappear.
Try the same strategy on a serious illness. Don’t worry about going to the doctors and having it diagnosed right, or allowing them to try and make you better. Ignore science, medicine, objective reality … and just have faith.
That could catch on … but I doubt it. The gravediggers would be on double shifts.
I also think it’s arrogant nonsense to simply expect that, because we’re Celtic, all this will automatically resolve itself, that equilibrium will be restored. In football, as with any sport, success has to be earned and the conditions for it prepared in advance.
Right now our club is wandering aimless like a blind man in a desert. There appears to be no clear long-term goal, only a series of moves to get us through the next bad bump in the road. Today we’re rushing through a deal we could have set in motion months ago, when it was still time for us to make a difference, and I fully expect any transfer money we do spend at this point to be offset with selling Van Dijk.
We’ve been sold this bill of goods for way too long. The times when I curse the strategy that got us here are actually me being Mr Happy Optimistic Guy.
Cause at other times it looks like we’re making it up as we go along, meandering forward without a clue.
Faithful through and through ain’t gonna fix that. Not by a damned distance.
tallybhoy
11:02 on 28 August, 2014
Morning all.
So VvD wants CL football?
We all do!
He wont get it if he joins Sunderland, ‘tho.
Or Newcastle.
The usual BS, he will only be looking at his bottom line,
Gordonj,
I discussed this at length yesterday. We have, over Lennons time, been most successful purchasing from the English leagues (championship mainly) and Sweden – I suspect because Lennon, Parker and mjallby know the leagues, players or people they trust to comment on players character, etc. so Forster, Ledley, hooper, Wilson, lustig and even relatively successful or do a job players like mastorovich, mulgrew, stokes. With the exception of wanyama and vvd, we’ve been less successful (both footballing and financially) buying from other markets – take wanyama out and we have made a loss on every other signing, and only a handful (izzy, kayal) have done a job for us.
What I dont know is whether this lack of success is due to not being as diligent with overseas signings as we are with Brits/swedes or if Lennon didn’t give them a chance as he wasn’t sure/didn’t sign them.
For me, I’d suggest we focus on Brit/Scandinavian markets for our core, with room for 1 or 2 projects/wanyama gambles every year or so – but with greater focus by scouts before we do (or even a loan deal with option to buy first).
James Forrest is praying for The Unconquerable Oscar Knox
————————————————————————–
Hi James, you’re such a wise man. Please do go on.
dr ramesh and the love potion,
But is it always apparent in scouting? We are trying to buy younger players on the basis of what they might become and that’s clearly more difficult than the EPL championship manager approach of paying eight figure sums for established internationals.
What was seen in Victor Wanyama that attracted him to us? What about Amido Balde?
I hear the Scepvic deal is all but done.
weeminger:
I’ll be interested to read that mate. I agree that our squad is over-bloated, and filled to the rafters with dreck.
But I believe the strategy is the very reason for it. I have no objection, and nor should anyone, to a handful of players at our club – those who are worth it – earning £40,000 a week. We should have three or four blue chip players at all times, and build the side around them. We should labour to come them as long as we can.
I understand that football is not a game where we deal in certainty. It’s why I never accepted any of those posts that said “spending money guarantees you nothing.” Of course it doesn’t. But Manchester City didn’t claw their way out of the English Second Division to the Champions League by “going down the Scandanavian route.”
Der Hun didn’t win 9 titles in a row rearing youth.
We all accept that they bought success. We all know success can be bought. No-one here is advocating that we even try to buy guaranteed qualification to the groups.
But I object – strongly – to not even caring. To pocketing windfall cash so the balance sheet looks yummy whilst the team sheet dies a death.
The whole strategy of the football club subsidising the business is what led us here. When all you’re willing to pay is paltry salaries (in comparative terms, we all know football wages are obscene) you will, in all likelyhood, end up in the bottom end of the market with the Pukki’s and Balde’s etc.
I look forward to your piece mate.
Catman
Good news. Are we likely to see anymore? I think we need another striker if Balde and Pukki get shifted.
HH
Spidey101,
Thanks, that’s interesting. Is it about knowing the players or the leagues better? Or perhaps that there is less of a need to adapt to our culture/ climate/ football, etc for British or Scandinavian players?
Izzy is perhaps the only one from the Americas that has settled. I won’t go into our track record with Brazilians, and Juarez didn’t last too long either. Are we perhaps not giving players the time to settle and adapt? There are clearly plenty of overseas players who do make it in European football.
Weeminger
Agreed – £10m loss pre European football means we basically need cl every other year – is that achievable/sustainable? Not with the quality we have.
I’d trim the squad too – 20-22 players with youths as back up as you say, but also getting rid of under performers and replacing with successful youth players – so there is an obvious route into side – and 1-2 signings each year to better the first team. After the necessary rebuild which needs £10-15m minimum.
I’ve posted my thoughts on cl income/ transfer income v transfer spend before and think this is affordable. Had intended a detailed post when I have a chance but will await yours with interest before I do.
Davidopoulos:
You see? I try to be constructive, to argue my case with some degree of logic, even apologising in advance if my tone comes off wrong …
And that’s what I get back.
Okay.
Bada @ 10:44 – rough translation re Scepovic ….
Stefan Scepovic has finally accepted the offer submitted Glasgow Celtic , negotiated by Mariano Aguilar, Juanma López partner , new Serbian agent who signed with the Scottish side for the next four seasons . So they reported it by telephone in the last hours Sporting. The transfer of the player, which in principle has already exercised this afternoon with the rest of the team expected to be made official during the day today .
James Forrest is praying for The Unconquerable Oscar Knox
“Der Hun didn’t win 9 titles in a row rearing youth”
————————————————————
“You don’t win anything with kids.”
Well that came back to haunt him.
Not looking for an argument, merely an observation.
HH to you.
I have to say I’m looking forward to Paul’s blog !
Gordon J,
Cracking post. If our ‘strategy’ (no laughing at the back) should be to reinvest our profit back into the playing side then I’d propose a few things :
1. A more ruthless approach to our academy / youth setup with incremental steps inside the team then loan then punt rapidly if no improvement is seen. Can we buy a team a la Man City etc and develop them there ?
2. A real focus on talent spotting using a more predictive set of analysis (there is some clever stuff available that should make our punts more scientific based on the skills and cultural fit of the club). I’ve seen it and we should be utilising it. Refresh that team and bring in some big hitters.
3. A more flexible approach to how we handle the wage cap and the renewal of contracts for older players. Not tying everything to the altar of sell-on.
4. Stick to the professionalising of the club with the work discussed by Ronny et al on diets and training regimes. Ban tattoos, booze and fast food :) It’s a cultural thing and the west of scotland diet will take a while to change but we have to put a marker down.
Elsewhere open up a better line of communications between club and supporters :
– Build a viewing gantry at Lennoxtown and encourage kids to come up and see the team train.
– Write it into the contract that the culture supports a place where players attend supporters events without excuse and anyone refusing to sign autographs or have pictures taken will be fined (have the fans dob then in if needs be)
– Use Celtic TV to open up a ‘day in the life of’ to help us understand what makes the club tick behind the scenes.
– Better ticket pricing and push through the standing area
– Kick on with the redevelopment of the surroundings to encourage a day out for families and bring in booze for the adults.
Then reorganise the senior end of the club. Replace Peter Lawell and introduce a different CEO (pragmatism from me) and a separate Director of Football who works cheek to jowl with Ronny and the coaches.
Publicise the incentives for senior executives and ensure progress against them is publicised.
Employ MadMitch and get his growth strategy kicked off :)
Anyway went a bad mad there but you get my drift.
Times are a changing csc
Gordonj
Probably is due to less adaptation time – Brits and Scandinavian players are often quick to adapt to the unique physical style of British/scottish football.
On South Americans adapting, I think it is a number of things – little diaspora in Scotland, certainly compared to Portugal, Spain, Italy and even the Ukraine and London, so can be lonely for them/hard for them to settle. Also we do tend to make instant judgements, so if their first few games are poor we write them off. Arsenal fans, according to my in laws, generally accepted that the first year was a settling in period for wengers foreign signings but they would come good in year 2 – eg pires, Henry, and Chelsea fans would say the same about drogba. So given we are shopping at the lower end of the market, we probably need to be more patient. Wanyama would be the example closer to home – alright when he first arrived, but immense second season!
Greenpinata:
It did come back to haunt him fella, you’re right. But the team that won everything with kids didn’t do it solely with kids. Had Manchester United followed the Celtic model, Beckham, Giggs, Scholes and others would have been shipped out the minute they had saleable value.
Added to them was an array of excellent talent bought from other clubs, often at big fees.
There was a time when we were willing to spend comparative fees to Man United going out and getting a young Roy Keane. It seems like a long, long time ago (but it’s not) that we paid £4.5 million for a young Scott Brown, and he went into a team that already had a number of blue chip players holding down regular spots.
None of the teams “built on youth” did it with nothing but youth. Barcelona has one of the finest youth systems in world football, as do Bayern Munich. They buy one, maybe two, high qualify additions to their squad every year.
I would love to think we could produce a team of young players to take Europe by storm, and if we get our basics right it could yet happen.
We both know the club will make no effort to keep a team together long enough for it to gell, and grow and learn and improve.
It’s not what we do anymore. We are a football club that runs a business.
James Forrest is praying for The Unconquerable Oscar Knox
Your response to me wasn’t really addressed to me, was it? It was just a convenient platform from which you could proclaim your gospel. It was almost a soliloquy. So, you see, I’m sure you have no real interest in what I think of your words.
big wavy:
Brilliant post mate. Some excellent ideas there.
James Forrest is praying for The Unconquerable Oscar Knox
11:16 on
28 August, 2014
Will get back to you,pal.
It`s been a long day and I`m having a quiet chat with a friend from Portugal who claims to have a cure for gout.
Joe Filippis Haircut
09:44 on
28 August, 2014
Quonno. Morning fella if the CEO came on CQN for a question and answer session unless the questions were given to Paul 67 to vet the previous day.I fear carnage would take place just my opinion. H.H.
And that is why neither PL or DD would face the fans in an unscripted situation.
Because I for one would be closelly questioning the pair on the circumstances of NL’s departure.
In saying this I know that the best |I would get is a load of crap about commercial confidentiality.
Podium?
Avoided coming on here after Wed night
I imagine it – and a lot more – has been done to death
Re: fixture disruption raised by bada bing
Weekend of 30/11 is first round of Scottish Cup
So we could have 5 Sunday home games after Thurs EL matches
Also dont forget that least one, if not two of the EL homes will be 6pm KO
On another note, if EL game 1 is at home that gives us 4 consecutive homes between 13-24/9
Aberdeen Sat 13/9
Potential EL Thurs 18/9
Murderwell now Sun 21/9
Hearts LC TBC Wed 24/9
Dependent on the work undertaken by the artist formerly known as the SSM, attendances could be interesting
Davidopoulos:
Yeah it was directed at you. That’s why I put your name on top of it.
If I had no interest I wouldn’t have written a response. And I wouldn’t be writing this one.
I go on at length. It’s when I started my own blog, rather than fill this one on days like today.
Honestly, I wasn’t having a dig or trying to score points. I am frustrated and I think wishing it away is a dangerous strategy. Big Wavy just posted a lot of first rate ideas … that’s what this blog excels at when its at its best.
Today I’m hoping we can discuss these things without the shouting match.
macjay1 for Neil Lennon:
Eeeeesh! Gout! Good luck with that mucker.
big wavy
11:22 on
28 August, 2014
Jeez,pal.
Replace P.L. …………………SUCCESS at his job. ………………Business.
Retain R.Deila ………………..FAILURE at his job.20 mill. loss…….Football.
big wavy,
Some great ideas there – really about changing the whole culture of the club.
I’m keen on the idea of a tie up with another club to allow us to loan out young players in a more systematic fashion. Two centre halfs going for a season or two to build a partnership, etc.
This side of youth development rarely seems to work for us at the moment, although young Callum McGregor is doing well. But so many of our promising youngsters seem to drop down after never quite making it. Would more playing time in a competitive league at a younger age help? I think it might.
Cheers James,
Mad ramblings but if you set the stall out to be more open, transparent, supporter-centric, football-focussed etc then like any culture you can make great inroads in a quick period. But you gotta mean it.
In amongst that lot was a pragmatic change around the structure at the top. In my job I’ve facilitated these a few times and it helps re-energise the club whilst respecting the dignity of those leaving, which is important.
If I was the board, without it being a knee jerk, I would be thinking long and hard about that, its timing and the right optics or the next step. It could be creative and signal a new era without it seeming confrontational or reactionary, which is the wrong way to do it.
James Forrest is praying for The Unconquerable Oscar Knox
11:27 on
28 August, 2014
Gout.
Haven`t quite acquired it,but I`m working on it.
“More tea,vicar?”
Aye, the Sunday games are a disgrace. That’s the way fitba has gone. All money.
They couldn’t care less that not so long ago most people would have seen it as not only a day for rest, but a day for going to Mass, buying a paper and 6 rolls and spending time with your family.
Brother Walfrid will be spinning in his grave.
GOUT ?.
My in his mid 80s neighbour swears by lashings and lashing of red cherries and lots and lots of cherry juice .
big wavy:
Absolutely bang on from start to finish.
I’ve noticed, actually, that since the idea was floated yesterday that the Director of Football role figures largely in a lot of people’s thinking.
Anyone think it’s a bad idea?
GOUT .
I eat lots of red cherries when they are in season and I dont have Gout .
Must work , Eh ?