Looking back it’s easy to spot; that moment when an imperious manager peaks before tumbling over the edge, but at the time this moment is almost impossible to see. The moment Jock Stein peered over the mountain was absolutely impossible to identify at the time.
Celtic qualified for the 1970 European Cup final by beating English champions, Leeds United, home and away, and were hot favourites to lift the trophy for the second time in four seasons. They were about to win their fifth consecutive league title and would go on to make record a world record nine-in-a-row, meaning there was a mountain of ‘evidence’ obscuring the peak from view.
We were the most feared side in football in April 1970 but that team’s time as a European heavyweight was over. Stein remained a further eight seasons but he never beat another team from one of the large European leagues. A 1975 win over a relatively obscure Boavista was his best result* in the period before he was replaced in 1978.
The reverence Jock is rightly held in by all Celtic fans now was tested during the 70s when I remember tactics and even minor decisions, like substitutions, were being questioned by large sections of the support. It all ended in ignominy in 1978, fifth in the league and sacked in a clumsy and misleading fashion.
Jock was still a good manager and did well with Scotland but he should have moved on from Celtic years earlier.
Fans of other clubs will always see the moment of inflection before those too close to the event, but even Arsenal fans are now politely making the case that their once-supreme manager is no longer suitable for purpose. Anyone suggesting that Arsene Wenger was finished in 2004 would have been certified. His team had just won the league undefeated, the first team to do so since the 19th century. They won the FA Cup on penalties the following season and reached the Champions League final a year after that, but they have not lifted a trophy since 2005. Wenger was a fine 2004 vintage but has disappointed since.
After a slow start at Manchester United, Alex Ferguson has managed to remain at the top for 20 years. His most important ability appears to be to know when to change coaches, players and tactics. It has long been said that the best managers were not great players as they needed to acquire a conscious insight on the game which gifted players inherently knew. Perhaps enduringly great managers are not even tactical geniuses, it’s more important that they can just spot a few.
Ordered the CQN Annual yet? Get it here in time for Christmas!
Remember being a teenager?** The excitement of waiting for news of the latest pop charts was big news for some. You can relive your youth buy BUYING ROD STEWART’S single before Sunday.
* In European competition, between beating Leeds and when Jock left in 1978, Celtic eliminated Kokkola, Waterford, B1903 Copenhagen, Sliema Wanderers, Ujpest Doza, Rosenborg, Turku, Vejle, Basel, Valur, Boavista and Jeunesse d’Esch. They lost to Ajax, Inter Milan, Ujpest Doza, Atletico Madrid, Olympiakos, Sachsenring Zwickau and Wisla Krakow. And Feyenoord, of course.
** CQN demographics suggest for most of you, your teenage years are now a distant memory.
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If teh Moonhowlers had a sporting pastime????
throwing horseshoes at the moon
mini BT requires her dad…
I’ll sing an Irish lullaby… too-ra-loo-la-loo-ra
BT
No, nobody done him, for the life of me I have no idea why, he was the one I would have gone after had I been on the park.
The Boy Jinky
22:36 on 14 December, 2012
************
Aye Pablo, I often wonder how much quicker things would have happened if Pablo got more involved, he was changing jobs as I remember……….
Jinks, as I read back I realised how much was missing from my earlier ….. big post.
KTF
Sheena Easton – Bellshill
Sheens Easton – Bellshill – Rotten Singer
BT
Here’s an old cracker for the wee yin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NzzJL5aRoQ
THE EXILED TIM
23:18 on 14 December, 2012
That is unlikely to happen but it could.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1wg1DNHbNU
timestamp might be an excellent formation for the team we are building. I think Neil really liked Udinese and their stuff last season. ;))
Coming to think about it that song could apply to Carluke!!!! :-)
Has the S.F.A. said anything yet about THEIR official boycott of the Dundee United cup-tie or do we once again have to suffer from ‘The silence of the BAMS’, leaving Scottish football football to drift along on automatic pilot. Have they been asked to reveal their list of clubs they are going to boycott and the list of clubs ,like Motherwell who are being reprieved. Who runs Scottish football anyway? It looks to me as if it is that bankrupt club across the river who generously donate to charity other people’s money.
TET,
The Bertie – Provan tackle.
Picture the scene.
Jimmy Johnstone was lying on the ground on the edge of the penalty box.
The ball broke clear, heading toward the touch line.
Proven chased it, running parallel to the goal line.
Bertie chased it, running parallel to the touch line.
The pair collided and Davie collected the second prize.
Provan was a clean player, but his tackle on JJ was heavy.
Retribution?
Ask Bertie.
BJmac
Good luck for Monday night buddy. I’m sure you’ll make a fine host and do Tic Talk powd.
MWD
Terrible news from the US
BT. No Problem. I seem to recall John Clark booting Greig up in the air at Parkhead, but it wasn’t anywhere near as serious an incident as the Bertie/Provan one.
Re Bertie himself. I recall an incident when he played with Birmingham, before Mr Stein brought him back to Celtic, when Bertie knocked out 2 of the opposition players , Fulham I think, before taking off his shirt and walking off before he was sent off.
Again, it was one guy who squared up to him fists raised and Bertie put the heid on him.
Johnny Haynes then ran up to take him on and Bertie laid him out.
I also recall the so called hard man Norman Hunter trying to sort Bertie out early on in the second leg of the European Cup Semi Final at Hampden. Big mistake. Bertie put his gas at a peep, and Hunter was largely ineffectual afterwards.
Bertie has always been a player who epitomised everything that Celtic stands for: a genuinely talented and skilful footballer who did not come from a Catholic/Irish background, but who embraced the club and it’s culture possibly more than any other player, and who took no shit from anyone.
Jock Stein knew exactly what he was doing when he brought him back, and he blossomed under Jock’s tutelage, to become a far better footballer than he was when he played with Celtic the first time.
setting free the bears
23:18 on 14 December, 2012
If teh Moonhowlers had a sporting pastime????
throwing horseshoes at the moon
___________________________________________________
You are far tattoo sensible to become a moonhowler.
This is Number 1 on CD2.
Awesome track, Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4YuOVFDLv8
petec
Aye, Once in a Lifetime right enough.
When Gordon Strachan was appointed to the Celtic job, I told my mates that I thought we would win the big cup again, I have a feeling that we could have done it under him, had we not been cheated out of the game in Milan, it was on IMO.
I still think we will win it afore I depart this mortal coil, so Lenny better get his finger oot, as I won’t be around too long :>)
Good evening again.
Just spent a magical 2 hours re-watching the Spartak game. We actually played far, far better than I appreciated on the night. Especially Sammi, Brooni and Charlie.
Paid particular attention to Aiden’s performance. 25 Minutes on the park, 16 touches – 15 of which found a Spartak player – but didn’t threaten us. Thanks Aiden!
Jobo
You Tube just keeps unearthing some old favourites of mine
Brinsley
ttt
Thanks, can see it much clearer now, and now that you describe it, I might just have seen it, but just can;t recall.
HH
i debate leaving this place. it’s changed into a bit of a clique?
twinbhoy
It’s always been a clique.
MWD
HT
I’m only up up here doing missionary work, I’m no the mayor ;-))
Easy for you boys staying safety in numbers.
When I asked what Carluke is like, I often reply, like Larkhall but with fewer tims & more huns ;-))
MWD
thanks mate, it will be an unmitigated disaster, anarchy & chaos – so no different from usual ;-))
hh
bjmac
Jobo Baldie
23:34 on 14 December, 2012
Good evening again.
Just spent a magical 2 hours re-watching the Spartak game. We actually played far, far better than I appreciated on the night. Especially Sammi, Brooni and Charlie.
Paid particular attention to Aiden’s performance. 25 Minutes on the park, 16 touches – 15 of which found a Spartak player – but didn’t threaten us. Thanks Aiden!
Jobo
________________________________________________________________________
I think the Spartak support were excellent on the night, they were out of the tourney remember but still gave Aiden a lot of appreciation a good few times.
Call me mental, I can see Aiden back at Celtic as our numero uno – with the 0 behind the 1. It’s digital and 4 and 6. Neil it is the right move.
Your analysis of Aiden’s excellent play is as ever spot on.
Twinbhoy
If you don’t mind me asking, but who have you debated it with ?????
If it’s with yourself, and going by your moniker it is, ffs mhan, you should be right at home here, we have many like that on here :>)))
Green Lantern…Bertie arrived back from Birmingham whilst Jimmy McGrory was still manager I think. Big Jock turned him from a winger into a link-man. They were link-men before they became midfielders.
K.K
I was also close to the Auld – Provan incident at Ibrox that day but my take is different . I didn’t think Bertie went over the ball. When the two came to-gether , Bertie blocked the ball and Provan kicked the blocked ball, breaking his ankle in the process. I don’t think the referee even gave a foul.
My music theme for tonight………. ach its easy to spot
Nothing compares
tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUiTQvT0W_0
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A-HJduzCIAAVL9K.jpg:large
It’s over.
Time to sleep.
Take care and god bless Timland.
HH
KTF
Evening Jobo
Was one of the Fenians who escaped from Australia on the Catalpa not an Orangeman?
Bjmac
Having lived for a time on the west coast of Scotland I well know what you’re talking about :-)
However, I learned it’s not the quantity of the Tims but the quality of them that really matters.
Carluke has some of the best mate.
Twinbhoy
23:39 on 14 December, 2012
i debate leaving this place. it’s changed into a bit of a clique?
_______________________________________________________
This place never was or never has been a clicque.
This town is very open minded, has loads of flaws, and most admit to them.
I just love the fact Paul67 despite Celtic not winning Leagues that we should have won concentrated more on Charity things….. Back in those dark days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgMzKMgNxw
Hail Hail
any tunes?
summit with a bit of meaning por favor
petec –
thank you for those kind observations. I tend to get used to posting and then moving on without comment!
Anyway, off for an hour or so to convert more of my 45’s to digital. Featuring….The 4 Seasons, Donna Summer, Maxine Nightingale and Leo Sayer!!!
Twas on good friday morning, all in the monthe of May……….
TET,
you always make me feel good about Celtic.
You also seem to know quite a bit about the reality of life as a Celtic supporter and the Establishment and you don’t let it get you down