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When great managers tumble over the peak

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By on CQN BLOG & Comments

Looking back it’s easy to spot; that moment when an imperious manager peaks before tumbling over the edge, but at the time this moment is almost impossible to see.  The moment Jock Stein peered over the mountain was absolutely impossible to identify at the time.

Celtic qualified for the 1970 European Cup final by beating English champions, Leeds United, home and away, and were hot favourites to lift the trophy for the second time in four seasons.  They were about to win their fifth consecutive league title and would go on to make record a world record nine-in-a-row, meaning there was a mountain of ‘evidence’ obscuring the peak from view.

We were the most feared side in football in April 1970 but that team’s time as a European heavyweight was over.  Stein remained a further eight seasons but he never beat another team from one of the large European leagues.  A 1975 win over a relatively obscure Boavista was his best result* in the period before he was replaced in 1978.

The reverence Jock is rightly held in by all Celtic fans now was tested during the 70s when I remember tactics and even minor decisions, like substitutions, were being questioned by large sections of the support.  It all ended in ignominy in 1978, fifth in the league and sacked in a clumsy and misleading fashion.

Jock was still a good manager and did well with Scotland but he should have moved on from Celtic years earlier.

Fans of other clubs will always see the moment of inflection before those too close to the event, but even Arsenal fans are now politely making the case that their once-supreme manager is no longer suitable for purpose.  Anyone suggesting that Arsene Wenger was finished in 2004 would have been certified.  His team had just won the league undefeated, the first team to do so since the 19th century.  They won the FA Cup on penalties the following season and reached the Champions League final a year after that, but they have not lifted a trophy since 2005.  Wenger was a fine 2004 vintage but has disappointed since.

After a slow start at Manchester United, Alex Ferguson has managed to remain at the top for 20 years.  His most important ability appears to be to know when to change coaches, players and tactics.  It has long been said that the best managers were not great players as they needed to acquire a conscious insight on the game which gifted players inherently knew.  Perhaps enduringly great managers are not even tactical geniuses, it’s more important that they can just spot a few.

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* In European competition, between beating Leeds and when Jock left in 1978, Celtic eliminated Kokkola, Waterford, B1903 Copenhagen, Sliema Wanderers, Ujpest Doza, Rosenborg, Turku, Vejle, Basel, Valur, Boavista and Jeunesse d’Esch.  They lost to Ajax, Inter Milan, Ujpest Doza, Atletico Madrid, Olympiakos, Sachsenring Zwickau and Wisla Krakow.  And Feyenoord, of course.

** CQN demographics suggest for most of you, your teenage years are now a distant memory.

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  1. petec on

    Gerard lives in Australia for those who are not aware.

     

     

    He has came back to Scotland a few times, to bury his parents. I remember young Dylan kicking a Ball about with Aidan, It was Great hearing a wee kid with such a different accent shout for the ball.

  2. rangers are not my favourite team csc on

    i have to thoroughly agree with green lantern

     

    this site is full of posters that talk to a select few and ignore everyone else

     

    sod them i say

     

    this site is about celtic

     

     

    Twinbhoy. CQN is a broad church. Yes, there is at least one clique, who only really respond to each other, and there are also many up themselves attention seekers.There are also some genuinely worrying people, thankfully not many.

     

    You also get those who think that because they are original posters they have some kind of moral authority and pre-eminence over everyone else.

     

    However, the majority of posters in my opinion have Celtic first and foremost in their hearts, and have positive and constructive contributions to make.

     

    The level of debate and articulation on here is nowhere to be seen on any other site, and that is something to be proud of.

     

    For those who sometimes get annoyed and feel isolated about the cliqueishness and lack of response to their posts from other CQNers, I say feck them. Say what you have to say and if people don’t respond well that’s their choice and possibly their loss.

     

     

    Me, I say what I feel but always with Celtic first and foremost in my heart. I sometimes use this and some other sites to seed ideas and am not bothered about recognition.

     

    If people don’t reply well that’s up to them.

     

     

    My point is: say what you think and don’t concern yourself with the agendas of others.

     

     

    It’s the Celtic way.

  5. The Bhoy from the Village on

    Bjmac great night with your brothers in bothwell tonight singing songs of treason Kieran stole the show

  7. Hamiltontim on

    rangers are not my favourite team csc

     

     

     

    01:19 on

     

     

    15 December, 2012

     

     

    Not sure I’d completely agree Bhoys. I know that often during the day my posts can be ignored, partly cos they’re pish but also because the posters who are on in work hours tend to have conversed for quite some time.

     

     

    Don’t get despondent, say yer piece!!

  9. The Singing Detective Demands The Resignation Of Campbell Ogilvie on

    Jobbo’s Teenage Heart-Throb,Chrissie Hinds…

     

     

    Wrote The Song ‘Kid’ ,From Her First Album …

     

     

     

    As A Tribute To Kid Jensen…

     

     

     

    And The Flaxen Canadian Popster’s Other Claim To Fame….?

     

     

    Well One Bright Spring Afternoon…

     

     

    Back In The Dae..

     

     

    The Sleuth Bent Low To Pick Up The Rail Ticket That ‘The Kid’ Had Inadvertently Dropped…

     

     

     

    As He Made To Alight At Regent’s Park Station…..

     

     

    “Thank-You Kindly,Sir”,He Beamed With Olde Worlde Charm…..

     

     

    And Then He Was Gone…..

     

     

    I’m Sure It Made His Day…..

     

     

    And Altered His Life Forever…..

     

     

    Now Did Ah Tell Ye About The Time A Cracked A Six-Pack Over At Red Foxx’s Joint….?

  10. petec on

    Gun control?

     

     

    hmm, I think it is obvious what is happening.

     

     

    Expect another really big event just to emphasise that the ordinary man in the street should never be able to hold a gun.

     

     

    Criminals will be able to get a gun willy nilly.

     

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz43hBjrk1A

     

     

    We are being manipulated, conservatively.

     

     

    I, I RA. Jail moi.

  12. JimmyQuinnsBits on

    Twinbhoy,

     

     

    Hell, few of mine get a response

     

     

    The blogs my wee kettle… I just churn crap out and the steam goes off

  14. Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on

    petec,

     

    your an evangelical gemini :oD))))

     

    kojo believes in reincarnation as per catholic teachings :oD)))

     

    the sea cucumber is a copulationwit :oD)))

     

    lastsaloon is a disgrace to humanity

  15. petec on

    Singing Detective,

     

     

    Thanks for the information about both Real Madrid and Barcelona this week.

     

     

    Talk about selling yourself like a cheap whore.

     

     

    Lubo.csc

     

     

    I’m sure as Celtic don’t owe anyone anything we can look forward to lots of Moral Christian high ground.

     

     

    We have an obligation to help Everyone and that is not about pointing out the obscene but helping the oblique as much as anyone else

  20. Rascar Capac on

    Arrrrhhhh!

     

     

    62 bus from Clydebank to Partick.

     

     

    Wanting to kick his f****ng teeth in.

     

     

    But I didn’t.

     

     

    Saved the wee lassie he was bothering.

     

     

    Just by telling him.

     

     

    He has a good sense of when to duck out.

  25. petec on

    canamalar,

     

     

    I would like to think you would be there on the 18th, Lennyism.

     

     

    I’d be thrilled beyond belief if the Singing Detective graced us with an appearance. I would buy him drinks the whole day for his total bravery in being unique in his opinions.

  29. Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on

    petec,

     

    meanwhile you are a gemini telling the world about Christiananity

     

    take yer fasctist garbage away from here till you properly understand

     

    your gemini claims are satanic nonsense

     

    astrology is antichrist

  30. Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on

    scunnered at your hypocracy

     

    time to sleep

     

    no time for satanism

  31. tarrant on

    Expect another really big event just to emphasise that the ordinary man in the street should never be able to hold a gun.

     

     

    Agree the principle petec, but what event could that be that hasn’t a;readyhappened in US, UK, Australia, Norwayt etc.

  36. tarrant on

    “I’d be thrilled beyond belief if the Singing Detective graced us with an appearance. I would buy him drinks the whole day for his total bravery in being unique in his opinions.”

     

     

    Careful now petec. Free speech should not equal free drink.

  37. Ntassoolla on

    Twinbhoy I had a look through the posts and at times tonight it read like a teeange girls’ social networking site.

     

     

    It’s not always like that. The better posters are quiet on a Friday night because they’re either out or saving themselves for the game tomorrow.

  40. Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on

    “My Birth year, I’m Gemini.

     

     

    I’m thinking Dunblane, I’m also thinking control.”

     

     

    what Christian defines itself by pagan references except a hypocrite, bad fire for you matey boy.

     

     

    night night n

     

    hail hail

  41. Rascar Capac on

    The Singing Detective is one of us.

     

     

    I remember the earliest posts.

     

     

    Tentative at first, and testing the water.

     

     

    Then very jokey with a few he felt comfortable with.

     

     

    I sorta liked him.

     

     

    Bright, new, and entertaining.

     

     

    We exchanged the odd message.

     

     

    Then he seemed to change, or perhaps get more confident.

     

     

    His posts were tests, or teases to some of us.

     

     

    There was no feeling of warmth that defines this blog.

     

     

    I think he wants recognition.

     

     

    And thats ok.

     

     

    In his defence, I asked him, or implied, that he would not post about me again.

     

     

    And he has been good for that.

     

     

    He has a right to reply.

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