Much of the response from Duff and Phelps to last night’s revelations by Mark Daly on the BBC website centred around their fees. BBC revealed that partner, David Grier, emailed Craig Whyte to say, “We propose to cap our fees in respect of an (sic) CVA or Administration to £500k, however, we request the ability to discuss with you an additional payment in respect of our total time costs, in so far as this does not impact on your position.”
Contracting to cap fees at £500k when you subsequently bill creditors £3.5m for your own time plus £2m legal costs would embarrass many of us, though not everyone. Duff and Phelps added a caveat that they could discuss additional payment as long as it did not impact on Craig Whyte’s position, which they perhaps did.
The more interesting part of the exchange between Whyte and Greir is their preparation for “HMRC being hostile”.
Craig Whyte:
“I’d like to speak to David [Whitehouse] and Paul [Clark] to make sure that they’re comfortable with the fact that we might end up with HMRC being hostile (I suspect this will end up being the case so you should go into it with your eyes open)”
David Grier:
“Agreed.”
It is fascinating to wonder how comfortable Mr Whitehouse and Mr Clark were with Craig Whyte’s plans in the event HMRC were hostile. HMRC are Rangers largest creditors. Administrators run the company in the interests of the creditors, not the shareholders.
Three days after this email exchange Rangers went to court to insist Duff and Phelps were appointed administrators instead of an appointment by HMRC.
Last week Duff and Phelps denied they have a conflict of interest concerning this administration. They are currently negotiating a CVA with HMRC and other creditors.
E-lites are opening a concession on the first floor of Buchanan Galleries tomorrow. They are giving away a free copy of CQN Magazine to customers throughout June, while stocks last.
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Estadio,
for what its worth… as usual, crackin prose. However, a wee bit different from your normal gentler tone – in a good way. We all buy into the lie at some points in our life… see, thought provoking already.
I’m away to have a strong word with myself
I wish I could see a bit more hostility from HMRC where TFOD are concerned!!!
Bring it on Hector!!
dannysbeard on 31 May, 2012 at 19:30 said:
>>>>
Okay! I will get in touch once this manky chickenpox (¡aye,really!) goes.
H! H!
I’m glad you told me about the cat…..I thought it might be some runic mystery beyond my understanding………
ElDiegoBhoy on 31 May, 2012 at 18:53said:
I watched Celtic win the Cup in 67 in the Haldane.
Lived in Shearer Quadrant.
Day off school from St.Kessogs.
Corpus Christie.
BMCUW
It goes back to the Appeal Tribunal as previously constituted.
•-:¦:-•** -:¦:- sparkleghirl :¦:-.•**• -:¦:-• on 31 May, 2012 at 19:28 said:
See when they’re passing this share around, they’d better make sure Agent Whyte isn’t anywhere near it……
Incidentally, what’s the latest on the tug-of-war with RIA’s shares. Has Agent Whyte agreed to give them to green IF he eventually buys rankers
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on 31 May, 2012 at 19:13 said:
>>>
Darvel……birthplace of Alexander Fleming…..where it rains…and it rains like Manchester & Glasgow combined on a rainy day….raaaiiiinnn. Dreary,dreary me……Darvel…
Monaghan1900 on 31 May, 2012 at 19:41 said:
Same 3 members ?
MONAGHAN 1900
Cheers,mate. I do not envy them.
67Heaven
Same 3
67Heaven … I am Neil Lennon..!!..Truth and Justice will always prevail on 31 May, 2012 at 19:44 said:
Didn’t Green claim he’d been to Whyte’s house and had an agreement in writing to transfer the shares to Green for 1 or 2 pounds? Though I think that might be conditional on CVA being accepted,so I suppose the answer is NO, then.
The SFA are damned if they do or damned if they don’t appeal.
If they appeal, which is their right, they themselves will be in conflict with FIFA/UEFA regulations and could have punishment themselves by engaging with the Courts.
They are damned by the likes of us if they don’t as it seems they are allowing the orcs in this case to throw the rattle out the pram and go crying to the Court of Session because they disagree with the punishment.
Stewart Gilmour put the point well yesterday; this means that any red card could be contested in the Courts. He reminded them that they should abide by the rules. I believe that Gilmour does not stand alone on his views.
The original tribunal and subsequent Appellate Tribunal felt that all options open to them were too severe. Why? Kicking them out of the Scottish Cup, starves them of much needed cash. Suspension and expulsion would inevitably mean their end. On the latter two there is no way on God’s earth they would wield the Executioner’s Axe, they would not want to be the ones to kill them.
In my humble opinion they took a line that would allow them to bring in cash by allowing them to compete in the Scottish Cup whilst not killing them. In the spirit of their rules they dished out another punishment they felt they could impose; this gives them a fighting a chance. They would earn from competing and earn from bringing in cash from transfers. I say a fighting chance as they would be doing just that with mostly 18 players and those they could not sell, much like the third division teams and the likes of the Civil Service Strollers.
They will in my opinion have more punishment dished out on them for running to Court. However, my fear is that the tribunal will still be of the view that suspension or expulsion is still too severe, despite them saying only match fixing is a worse breach. Where does that leave them, one option, kick them out of the Scottish Cup for one season. In the grand scheme of things for what they have done, is the punishment proportionate, the money they would lose would be negligible. Every orc in the land, D&P et al will be laughing up their sleeves that that’s all they’ll get. In fact an orc supporter on Scotland Tonight on Monday put this forward as an appropriate punishment.
If I were the tribunal and for what they did by not paying their way to Cubs, HMRC et al coupled with them not abiding by the SFA rules I would revoke their licence but I am biased.
I fear on this issue the orcs have won this particular battle but still firmly believe they will lose the war…
I smell liquid…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
MIKI67 1944
Aye,that’s the one.
Mind,I always stop for my first pint in the pub on the rhs of the road as you drie west,next to the Clydesdale Bank any time I drive home.
Smashing pint,bookies nearby.
Accents I can understand……
Estadio on 31 May, 2012 at 19:20 said:
>>>
The return of Estadio….with some really DEEP down stuff.
Lookin’ forward to the next instalment.
Really good writing,mhan.
HH!
googybhoy
watched Celtic win final in 67 in house in sunny whitecrook.,younger brother was serving on the alter at O H R Clydebank,if memory is correct I Think he missed First half ,
•-:¦:-•** -:¦:- sparkleghirl :¦:-.•**• -:¦:-• on 31 May, 2012 at 19:26 said:
I don’t think that FIFA would see this as adequate punishment.
From what I have gather from all that I’ve read FIFA will most likely want the previous fine and transfer embargo upheld but with other sanctions to be put in place.
The way I see it the SFA have two options.
If they want the easy way out they could keep previous stuff and expel them from the Scottish cup.
But the way round upsetting the huns and still looking like they are punishing them would be to uphold the fine, but drop the transfer embargo and demote them to the division 1.
That way the Huns could then keep most of their players and still have cup revenue to last them until (when?) they get promoted again.
I think backing down on anything they have done so far would encour that wrath of UEFA/FIFA.
Only an opinion but would seem like the likely outcome to least effect them.
HH
/Bishop B
67Heaven
The logic is that it is that panel which has heard full argument in the case. The reviewing court has found that that panel erred only in selection of penalty and so needs only to select an alternative. Were a fresh panel to be selected it would have to hear argument afresh and might form a different view from the first.
Not lookin’ good for the menace me-thinks. The SFA statement almost reads like an apology to the huns for what’s coming next. Dear John. . . . . We tried…but… cost…rules…unfortunately…. and we’ll be reminding all the others….
Regan can’t issue opinions on what the final punishment should be – that’s up to the tribunal.
My guess is that the SFA will now place themselves at the back of the queue of responsibility, risky strategy ‘cos the last one passed the gun needs to fire, so guess re-tribunal date of around 20th June – which now has additional charges to consider. I can wait a few more weeks for this farce to finish, splendid !
HH
saltires en sevilla on 31 May, 2012 at 19:14 said:
Dushanbe
Ye still a B.T. On the peach Melba ?
M
=======
Ah, lads, lads, lads, where’s da feckin Jax?
What’s a B.T?
Ernie:
As the great Austrian Zoologist Konrad Lorenz, the founder of Ethology, was fond of saying: we humans have no instincts. In fact most higher mammals have few instincts, most of what they learn is via socialization. I wouldn’t go that far: I think we have certain genetic propensities that are stimulated into operation by environmental triggers- like language and conscience. The genius is intrinsic but needs to be facilitated by the social world. But other proclivities we tend towards such as self-preservation, territoriality, a need to protect loved ones are probably so deeply preconscious that we can never know if they are entirely genetic or a complex set of socially enforced conditioning processes…I’m not sure, I have an open mind about such prejudicial dispositions in human behaviour.
I’m quite happy to defer authority to your polymathic superiority…that inordinate concern you have with minutiae combined with that condescending “tone” has finally put me in my place.
Pedantry is the dotage of knowledge.
Holbrook Jackson
Anatomy of Bibliomania.
Dushanbe
If I’m a CT then you must be a BT
Think about it !
HH
Sixteen Roads,
Sorry if I’ve missed any significant comment from you, but here’s the latest splitting of the hairs.
Re German victories against superior numbers, they certainly pulled these off in 1941 & 42: they wer greatly helped by kindly Uncle Joe who had murdered all his Army commanders & Corps commanders + most of his Divisional commanders in the purges of the late 1930s. They also repelled attacks by much greater numbers of Red Army soldiers on the North of the Eastern Front after mid-1943. However, where your enemy has a superiority of 20:1, you get beaten.
It’s true that in terms of numbers of the enemy engaged, the Soviet Union did bear the brunt of the war against Nazi Germany: I think this has been well-recognised for a long time. In fact, the “running-dogs of the hegemonists” made such a big thing of it that many in the West were in danger of forgetting that British, US, etc, troops had to cross the sea & often the ocean to engage the Germans, not to mention that the Western Allies engaged virtually all of the German Air Force & Navy.BTW I don’t consider that the former Soviet Union deserves any gratitude for its contribution: if Stalin hadn’t signed his Agression Pact with Hitler, theremight never have been a Second World War.
I’d agree that the Western Allies were guilty of atrocities, including at least some of their bombing raids – & yes, the follow-up attacks to hit the firefighters were an especially nasty touch. Nevertheless, I see a lot of difference between crude, indiscriminate & sometimes misdirected attempts to hit at the enemy’s war potential &the deliberate massacre of Jewsh civiliansor Polish reserve officers.
Ahyway, that’s my tuppence worth.
HMRC getting tough
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/9303074/HMRC-targets-traders-for-unpaid-tax.-Are-you-on-its-list.html
Methinks the huns should be grateful they don’t drive a taxi in The Midlands-they wouldn’t have got away with paying taxes then!
Paul67 et al
Let us be clear about this. In refusing to accept the decision of the Appeal Tribunal and taking their case to the Court of Session, it is Rangers FC who are in breach of SFA rules and regulations, not the SFA. Rangers FC were only able to get a hearing in Edinburgh because the SFA had originally set up an Independent Judicial Panel to examine the extent to which Rangers had in fact brought the game into disrepute. The clue is in the word, judicial. Regan is correct on both counts, in theory the SFA could appeal the Court of Session narrow ruling, but in doing so would have placed the SFA itself in breach of both UEFA and FIFA statutes. A catch 22 caused by the actions of Rangers FC, actions which have placed said club further into disrepute. Rangers now face further sanctions on both the original breaches, which still stand, and a potential further charge as a result of believing themselves to be above the rules of an Association of which, for now, they are still a member.
Hi Lads
Just had a tel call some A***H*** enquiring if I would sell my TIC shares,the guy claiming they are setting up takeover bid, company by the name of Crumby & Stewart, Washington USA.First thought was one of the mates at the windup, but sounded as it might be a Scam, anyone else been contacted,now! before any bright remarks are made remember, I am TT for the past 35yrs.Very persistent called back a second time, wait for it offered £10 – £15 a share soon as I heard that anticipated Bank Details next Hung up.
PS Gave name as Chris ( Whyte, Green,Duff,Phelps.Grier,)
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on 31 May, 2012 at 19:49 said:
>>>
Aye…the place only holds memories for me….few of them dear. Expensive,mind you. The Horseshoe Arms on the r.h. side as you depart that vale of despond was a good boozer. No idea about now. It was the kind of place that if you hadn’t lived there for generations you would always be an outsider. Masonic to its core,with a very dark side. But that was a very long time ago,and I didn’t belong there,so I didn’t stay very long. Who knows what it’s like now. It had a thriving employment situation,as did the whole Irvine Valley. I heard that Thatcher came along and blew it completely away.Maybe they rebranded it as some kinda hokey ‘Burns Country’ attraction.
Anyway….the palace of memory has its dimmer corners!
HH!
Monaghan,
Exactly. The Appeal Tribunal will be reconvened to consider the penalty again. It can’t look at any other issues or any new charges.
If the law lord takes notice of what the other law lord said then they have to suspend them for a period.
Now what would that mean in SPL terms? Would they run with 11 teams for a year? Or replace the huns and leave them high and dry?
I was reasonably happy with liquidation, but
expulsion has a nice ring to it as well.
Oh Whatever, either will do.
Hang on! Expulsion then liquidation, that will do nicely.
This will be yet another “punishment” that cannot be passed on to a Newclub.
MIKI67
Ayrshire in general has been an unemployment blackspot since at least the 70s.
You might just have got out in time-and unscathed too,from the sound of it!
Quite remarkable…….
GordonJ
I presume they’d want another team in at least so that everyone would have a game every week. We don’t need no stnkin’ Huns kind of thing.
HH
Well the Swiss FA faced a similar conumdrum, didn’t they? Sion went to a local court who ruled the transfer embargo was unenforceable, FIFA told the Swiss FA to enforce it anyway, which they did.
I’m not aware that the Swiss legal system came down heavily on the Swiss FA for ignoring it’s judgement.
It’s clear where the power is if you’re running an FA.
saltires
Got it…..You toss and I trot…..
tee hee ya dancer!
Darvel…….home of the Ireland’s. !!!!! ?
Celtic Mac on 31 May, 2012 at 20:05 said:
Paul67 et al
”The clue is in the word, judicial. Regan is correct on both counts, in theory the SFA could appeal the Court of Session narrow ruling, but in doing so would have placed the SFA itself in breach of both UEFA and FIFA statutes. A catch 22 caused by the actions ”
Why is appealing the decision putting the SFA in breach, but entering a defence to the action is not?
Monaghan,
Fine by me! They will be liquidated anyway – but what’s the point of setting up a newco if it has no league to play in?
From earlier;
Moscow, Ayrshire – fascinating facts you should know
1. John Martyn stayed there for a while; I loved his music with a passion at the time, when he in his prime, and continued doing so as he kept developing. Saw him in the Apollo; he had a bank of pedals all around him and proceeded to send the audience into a trance with fantastic renditions of “Solid Air” and the like. RIP John, genius and unique musician
2. Featured in an episode of the Private Eye series, The View from Daniel Pike, starring Roddy McMillan – the reference to Moscow being initially misinterpreted until the bold Roddy worked out that it was indeed Moscow, Ayrshire
IneedtogetoutmoreCSC
GordonJ
No point at all. No revenue stream
Ernie
Fundamental error by SFA was to appear at the JR. They have acquiesced in recognising jurisdiction.