One of today’s newspapers did its very best to run with a one’s as bad as the other’ suggestion, saying : “Yes, both sides have justifiable grievances. Celtic were rightly outraged at the state their stadium was left in. Likewise, the Rangers board were understandably disgusted at those mock executions of blow-up dolls draped in red, white and blue scarves.”
This is wholly misrepresenting the situation. Celtic were rightly outraged at the blow-up dolls, criticised the actions at the time while endorsing the behaviour of the fabled “vast majority”. Celtic don’t have a problem with self-analysis; they’ve done it often enough in recent seasons in the face of Uefa fines.
The blow-up doll incident, and the faux defence of it, which Celtic didn’t offer, has nothing whatsoever to do with who pays for tens of thousands of pounds worth of vandalism carried out by visiting fans at Celtic Park. You can make your own suggestions as to why it was raised in connection with the subject.
The article goes on to offer up evidence of the bigger story, which it somehow manages to miss.
“Rangers (sic.) believe they have every right to take the hump because Celtic have chosen to ignore years of protocol – an unwritten rule which has stood the test of time, whereby each club pays for damage done to its own stadium by opposing fans on derby day.”
Maybe, maybe not, but here’s the thing, whatever unwritten rules Celtic and Rangers observed died in 2012.
You want unwritten rules to persist? Pay your taxes, register your players correctly, make full and honest submissions to HMRC inquiries instead of shredding correspondence. Play by the rules everyone else has to play by.
Cheat, lie, hide and shred and you have no defence in written rules, never mind unwritten objects of your imagination. This reality should now be writ large for all to understand.
After the 1909 Scottish Cup final between Celtic and Rangers ended suspiciously in a draw, one astute observer noted that the clubs were acting in concert, like an Old Firm, in order to generate gate receipts from a replay.
With the permission of Oldco’s administrators, Newco were able to change their name to “Rangers”, but that act of an administrator cut no ice at Celtic Park, or most other Scottish grounds.
There is no Old Firm, it died in 2012. Celtic don’t use the phrase, they don’t observe unwritten rules they had in place with Rangers, they don’t want their stadium trashed, they don’t want to install “prison grade” facilities for visiting fans (this is what’s now required in Scotland in 2017, good grief!), they would happily never host the club again.
If you think all that happened in 2012 was a “relegation” (which you’d earlier reported was impossible), this might be news to you. It was more than this; it was the end of the old ways – and good riddance to them.
Celtic will stand of fall on our own merits. We will observe the laws and rules of the land, the tax authorities, the Association, Uefa and Fifa (even if it means criticising our own fans). If you’re looking for unwritten favours after vandalising our property: tough.
And for those who continually see O.F. conspiracies, none of them have ever been able to tell me a business case for Celtic to put life into that concept. It’s not good for business, no matter what the wildest conspiracy theorist might tell you. Anyone who tells you it is needs to take a look at himself.
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Sean Thornton
Hun media greetin like weans
Desperate to sell our cracking players for us.
While they hype up a two-bob friendly in Germany as if its the CL Final
Pathetic morons.
They will be greetin…for a long, long time:)
HH
AULD TAM on 17TH JANUARY 2017 9:09 AM
And none of this got a mention on any Celtic blog at the time?
You will forgive my scepticism.
Hee, Hee
Big Davy Weir eh….Sob…Sob..Sob
Still laughing at the pathetic hun, violins playing in the background.
Huns know they are gubbed.
Magic:)
HH
SOUTH OF TUNIS;
I think you’ll agree, I might be wrong, Craig Whyte, in the great scheme of things, had very little whatsoever to do with the catastrophic demise of Rangers; Craig Whye – to my mind – was a researched and embraced egotistical patsy.
Anyone heard how ELDIEGOBHOY is keeping?
I’ll tell you when I became fully aware that things looked doomed down at Ibrox. In 2003 I was working at a credit insurance brokers and as such had access to credit checking facilities, enhanced accounts etc. So as the rumours started to come about I started doing some checks. At that time I distinctly remember you could insurance cover for bills to them for up to £40k but £0 for us.
There were two things that I learned at that time:
1. The valuation of Ibrox and Murray park was listed as £118M, it wasn’t just a made up figure but achieved using a slightly arcane but legitimate method of placing a value on every brick etc and multiplying appropriately. Of course it was a gross over valuation by at least £50M.
2. Rangers Youth Development had not long been set up. It was a separate company attracted it’s own investment etc. Now while at the above job, I got sent down to Old Trafford on a basic accounting course and one of the examples the guy used to demonstrate value in the accounts was the Man Utd squad of Giggs etc. He pointed out that at Giggs et al had come through the youth set-up they actually had no value in the Man Utd accounts, since nobody could know a true value for them. So what? I hear you cry.
Well one way around that is for the 1st team to ‘buy’ players from the youth team. Not only does that allow you to place a value on them, within reason you can decide that value yourself.
There were other tricks at play as well to do with the myriad companies under the MIH umbrella that were used for debt transfer.
I’m sure I calculated that there was well over £100M debt being massaged away, and that’s how I knew they couldn’t go on.
TGM
We need to be careful in the description of facism, neo Nazism and racism.
Too often these labels are applied indiscriminately. Free speech includes legimitate right wing views and the views of the ordinary working class.
There is a world of difference between these views and the evil of neo Nazism, facism and racism
In fact the most racism I have witnessed on here was during the divisive Indy debates.
Yet that racism was tolerated.
HH.
Mr Fixit @mrfixitstips 5m5 minutes ago
Fascinating court case going on at this moment. A punter is suing Coral for £250,000. He bet £100 Rangers to be relegated in 2012 at 2,500/1
James Doleman @jamesdoleman 17m17 minutes ago
Total of three @Pmacgiollabhain blogs from 2011/2012 entered into evidence by Kinloch’s lawyer
James Doleman @jamesdoleman 21m21 minutes ago
@Pmacgiollabhain piece now being read to the court. Deals with HMRC dispute with Rangers in 2012
‘Intellect’ is it, because if you don’t question Celtic’s alleged ‘old firm’ duplicity live on the internet?
Its not our personal agenda ,we live and breath Celtic on a daily basis intermingled with a zombiefied massive majority. Ask not what your club can do for you, but what you can do for your club? What could the Celtic support have done about the Rangers scandal that HMRC didn’t
More Celtic fans are worried where they can park their motor and get in and see the game, when the new city plan permit holding kicks in. Celtic fans don’t care about how Rangers reprisals, we know how they died, and we are a separate passive tribe. What about the abusively so called ‘oldfirmists’ with Celtic season briefs that body swerve Sevco games, – where do they fit in?
Presently in our slump, 20 points and at least 15 or 16 higher calibre of player clear of their nearest rivals, planning the next assault on the upper league which we’ve ligitimately attained virtually an automatic right. When the transfer window slams opens we sign the latest Ivorian prospect, for £3m up front and just for good measure , in the last window whilst England slept, we stole France’s finest, and in football terms we’ve actual money to burn.
Paul Gasgoine ,Brian Laudrup, Terry Butcher Sir Minty Moonbeams, and your FTP, they boys took a helluva beating, we’re living life to the full post Rangers and just beyond the shadows of Celtic Park life is good, Celtic flourish stroll in, stroll out, buy a ticket or don’t.
It’s ‘no intellect’ its a full blown ‘no brainer’ CSC
GREENPINATA:
What does…
“I’d rather be a racist then emigrant”
imply to you about the character of an individual stating such an abomination?
KITALBA @ 10 34 .
Craig Whyte ” purchasing ” the business ( and the debt ) was definitive proof of what a financial basket case The Deady Bears were ..One man’s Motherwell Born Billionaire was another man’s shameless spiv with a proven record of parting the gullible from their cash ( and then ever so unfortunately losing it ). . His arrival at Ibrox was the equivalent of a going down the plug boozer being palmed off to an alky with a wee coterie of alky pals…
Zombies paying 2 million for a 28 year old on EPL wages?
Aye right.
KITALBA on 17TH JANUARY 2017 10:34 AM
SOUTH OF TUNIS;
I think you’ll agree, I might be wrong, Craig Whyte, in the great scheme of things, had very little whatsoever to do with the catastrophic demise of Rangers; Craig Whye – to my mind – was a researched and embraced egotistical patsy.
____
Whyte was a vulture capitalist. Rangers had been insolvent for some time.
All he was interested was 1. Stripping out any value and selling it 2. Starting a Newco like Green did
All this for £1
Owen- i replied to you yesterday mate, top of page 5.
Embramike- cue the fire bombing of Corals bookies soon….
South of Tunis
You are absolutely correct re many Rangers fans turning away from Ibrox once Murray became involved.
I have one particular friend who had a significant shareholding pre Murray. His grandfather had been a director and he was all for ringing the changes at Ibrox. As someone who was married to a Celtic supporter and who had brought his kids up as Catholics he was all for ending the sectarian discrimination and clearing out all that old history and bigotry — some of which his family had suffered because of their chosen life partners and so on.
Murray wouldn’t entertain him. Wouldn’t entertain his legitimate business questions and enquiries about finances and policies.
When the PLC flotation came along my friend would have had to invest many tens of thousands of pounds to maintain his influence there and he simply refused to do so. He has memorabilia and things that are worth a lot of money and are worthy of a museum but they are all locked away. He has refused to take them to Ibrox and never goes there or has anything to do with the club.
One Scottish Club chairman from the past offered him a substantial sum for one item and he just told him to beat it!!
Many others like him walked away then and even more have walked away in recent years.
As Kit says, Whyte has very little to do with the catastrophe at Ibrox and everyone knows it.
Kitalba
There has always been a Celtic v Rangers business plan from day one.
That rivalry has always been seen as good for business by both sides.
1968 Rangers play at Kilmarnock and their fans invade the pitch thinking they have won the league. Meanwhile, over at Celtic Park, Bobby Lennox scores deep into Injury time ensuring the title belongs to Steins men. Cue the celebrations and so on.
Rangers, despite their horrible policy, were a good team then.
Now, they are not only not a good team but they are not a good club in any sense of the imagination. The brand is toxic, their finances dire, their future uncertain, their management shambolic and so on.
I was with a group of Rangers business men some years ago and within the company were some of the then commercial guys from Ibrox. They were desperate for Celtic to win something as it was good for business.
We had won nothing and were a shadow of what we should have been and the business thinking at Ibrox was that it would be great if Rangers won the league but Celtic won the cup. That, they thought, would put more money into their coffers because that rivalry could be seen to be alive and well — as long as we didn’t become too well and mounted a serious and sustained challenge.
There have undoubtedly been times when people in green blazers or blue blazers will tell you that their colour is neither green nor blue — it is brown on any given day when the wind blows that way!
The point is that on this January morning in 2017 that way of thinking, whether you and I ever agreed with it or not, is defunct, dead and of no consequence.
It is not a business model or set of circumstances that Celtic PLC should look to foster or cultivate for purely business purposes as there are far better, more ethical and far better financial business routes to follow.
As the man said, optin No 3 no longer exists.
Celtic Champs Elect 734
I hope those were the ramblings of a drug-addled boozed-up clown.
Pitiful to consider the alternative,that you posted that without any of the above excuses.
And shameful you’ve got away with it.
TIMALOY29
A very convenient vulture capitalist for the knighthood of Sir David Murray and his subsequent brotherhood adulation.
I wonder which beach Campbell Ogilvie is drinking his Pina colada on this fine day.
Kitalba,
I agree the statement is an abomination.
I would need to see the full post to comment further.
HH.
BRTH:
I can understand there being a Celtic v Rangers business plan… but I could never condone it, ever.
I believe there is a place for Rangers and their fans in this world but it is not as a Siamese twin of Celtic.
I want us to play football and beat every team we can without referees brown enveloping us or doping of any kind. And if any team beats us – fairly and with passion, guile and flair – well that team must be a good team playing under the same rules as Celtic.
Philbhoy just been speaking to EDB he is doing well, still undergoing treatment but remains positive. lurks but does’nt post often and who can blame him, the blog has been a bit of a mess recently – imho. H H Hebcelt
HEBCELT
Thanks for the update,old bean. Glad to hear he’s in fine fettle.
HH.
SUCH A FANFARE FOR RED CARDING AW_NAW PAUL67
Yet what was written at 7.34 was removed without public censor, just gone, was never written, didn’t deserve a red card.. (or did I miss it)
Are you becoming a parody of yourself Paul67
Kit
Totally agree.
Just because a business plan produces a good number at the end that doesn’t make it a good business plan.
If you have to sell your soul to the devil or accept or adopt or conform to a series of processes or practices which are fundamentally wrong and unethical then the plan is a bad one no matter what the number at the end.
In recent years Celtic have said they have adopted a stand alone business plan and model.
At times I hear words.
At times I see actions which back up the words.
I hope we are nearing a position where there can be no doubt that the actions back up the words …… but that is for the future.
BTW the tweets coming from James Doleman re the Kinloch v Coral case are very ineteresting.
All sorts of publications being quoted saying that Rangers were relegated.
What will the judge make of it?
Just read back the last couple of articles. I had been wondering about the recent absence from the board of some first class contributors. Now I think I know why. Some people, IMHO, are doing their damnedness to drag the board down to the levels generally associated with the Dark Side.
Sure we can argue about all things Celtic but are the petty, vindictive insults necessary to progress our argument? Hopefully, some recent contributors will reconsider what they have posted.
HH
PAUL67
Could you please explain to me, and the blog, why Awe_Naw was red carded and Celtic Champions Elect wasn’t.
We all need to know where we stand and what craps we are allowed to contest
BROGAN ROGAN TREVINO AND HOGAN on 17TH JANUARY 2017 11:23 AM
With Coral not defining the terms of the bet, it may come down to an interpretation of common speech/understanding. Could go either way.
TIMALOY29.
” Vulture Capitalist ” .
Mmmm – the man never had enough money to be a capitalist . .He was certainly a vulture . A snake oil salesman , a con artist , a bullshitter, a bottom feeder.Happy to fund a lifestyle on other people’s money .Happy to use the law to escape the claws of the law .Happy to feed on the fact that some people can’t resist bullshit. Some people rob banks to fund a lifestyle , some other people offer investment opportunities to people who believe that somebody operating out of a portacabin in Essex really could turn £ 25k redundancy money into £100k
Weeminger,
I remember you posting that information on here way back when sevco was just a twinkle in Whytes eye
Celtic Park listed as 20th largest stadium in Europe per this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4116550/The-EIGHTY-biggest-grounds-European-football.html
Guys, don’t waste time or energy complaining about a comment not being deleted that hasn’t been reported or seen by a mod. Please drop me a note (which only one person did).
BRTH:
I reiterate… it is never the wrong time to do the right thing. Because once we die… we die, and our regrets, well our fond and profound regrets… well they’ll befriend us for eternity in our graves.
Whatever happened to Sponsiones Ludicrae?
Did she die in vain?
Paul67:
I could sneak behind the blog and ask why you red carded Aw_Naw and not Celtic Champions Elect…
but that would be slekit of me.
I’m not going to email you but the blog can see your discretion.
Can’t you answer in public,for the sake of clarity and fairness?
ERNIE LYNCH
Superseded by Gambling Act 2005,section 335.
CANAMALAR IT LOOKS LIKE OCD OBSESSION on 17TH JANUARY 2017 11:31 AM
The stuff with debt transferal between the MIH companies was so tangled. I’ve totally forgotten most of it. What surprised everybody was that it took so long for it all to collapse. In some ways I think it reinforced the idea that SDM was a far bigger player than he really was. You easily calculate how much the club was struggling, but he always seemed to find a way to fix it.
It turned out that was all on the basis of handshake deals with BoS.
HRVATSKI JIM on 17TH JANUARY 2017 11:32 AM
Celtic Park listed as 20th largest stadium in Europe per this article:
Arsenal (60,432) pip Celtic (60,411) to 2nd biggest UK club ground behind Man U (75,635) by just 21 seats. Surely our next stadium expansion should be 22 seats somewhere ?
KITALBA on 17TH JANUARY 2017 11:42 AM
Paul67:
I could sneak behind the blog and ask why you red carded Aw_Naw and not Celtic Champions Elect…
but that would be slekit of me.
I’m not going to email you but the blog can see your discretion.
Can’t you answer in public,for the sake of clarity and fairness?
Perhaps you can include your good self in that for accusing me of being a racist just because I suggested you had no say on the blog due to you deserting the motherland.