One of today’s newspapers did its very best to run with a one’s as bad as the other’ suggestion, saying : “Yes, both sides have justifiable grievances. Celtic were rightly outraged at the state their stadium was left in. Likewise, the Rangers board were understandably disgusted at those mock executions of blow-up dolls draped in red, white and blue scarves.”
This is wholly misrepresenting the situation. Celtic were rightly outraged at the blow-up dolls, criticised the actions at the time while endorsing the behaviour of the fabled “vast majority”. Celtic don’t have a problem with self-analysis; they’ve done it often enough in recent seasons in the face of Uefa fines.
The blow-up doll incident, and the faux defence of it, which Celtic didn’t offer, has nothing whatsoever to do with who pays for tens of thousands of pounds worth of vandalism carried out by visiting fans at Celtic Park. You can make your own suggestions as to why it was raised in connection with the subject.
The article goes on to offer up evidence of the bigger story, which it somehow manages to miss.
“Rangers (sic.) believe they have every right to take the hump because Celtic have chosen to ignore years of protocol – an unwritten rule which has stood the test of time, whereby each club pays for damage done to its own stadium by opposing fans on derby day.”
Maybe, maybe not, but here’s the thing, whatever unwritten rules Celtic and Rangers observed died in 2012.
You want unwritten rules to persist? Pay your taxes, register your players correctly, make full and honest submissions to HMRC inquiries instead of shredding correspondence. Play by the rules everyone else has to play by.
Cheat, lie, hide and shred and you have no defence in written rules, never mind unwritten objects of your imagination. This reality should now be writ large for all to understand.
After the 1909 Scottish Cup final between Celtic and Rangers ended suspiciously in a draw, one astute observer noted that the clubs were acting in concert, like an Old Firm, in order to generate gate receipts from a replay.
With the permission of Oldco’s administrators, Newco were able to change their name to “Rangers”, but that act of an administrator cut no ice at Celtic Park, or most other Scottish grounds.
There is no Old Firm, it died in 2012. Celtic don’t use the phrase, they don’t observe unwritten rules they had in place with Rangers, they don’t want their stadium trashed, they don’t want to install “prison grade” facilities for visiting fans (this is what’s now required in Scotland in 2017, good grief!), they would happily never host the club again.
If you think all that happened in 2012 was a “relegation” (which you’d earlier reported was impossible), this might be news to you. It was more than this; it was the end of the old ways – and good riddance to them.
Celtic will stand of fall on our own merits. We will observe the laws and rules of the land, the tax authorities, the Association, Uefa and Fifa (even if it means criticising our own fans). If you’re looking for unwritten favours after vandalising our property: tough.
And for those who continually see O.F. conspiracies, none of them have ever been able to tell me a business case for Celtic to put life into that concept. It’s not good for business, no matter what the wildest conspiracy theorist might tell you. Anyone who tells you it is needs to take a look at himself.
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In the months before February 2011, people like Phil McGhiolla Bhain and blogs like CQN and The Big Tax Case, were daily predicting that Rangers were heading for administration. All were proved correct.
However, not one of those in the know predicted liquidation. I remember this very clearly. Phil, Paul and others, when asked the question, were very clear that Rangers would come through administration and that liquidation would not happen.
But of course that was before anyone had ever heard of Craig Whyte. He was the game changer.
Nobody, but nobody foresaw liquidation for Rangers, at least not until AFTER the arrival of Whyte.
BRTH is therefore correct in what he says.
Scottish cup weekend Foghorn
—————————-
cheers BT
didnt think it would be so soon after this round coming up
Auld Tam,
Your memory is flawed, everyone predicted liquidation
In fact,
I predicted Whyte would buy the club for £1, that’s a matter of record.
Their debt was estimated approximately and no One could see any other way out for them.
Kitalba –
I remember those reports of the flight back from Vigo. Pure fantasy.
It turned out that the stewardess who claimed to have been assaulted, had been having an affair with the flight Captain, who was married with a family. That very morning, the Captain had called a halt to the relationship, which resulted in a public screaming match in front of other cabin crew members.
The Captain was in an absolutely foul mood throughout that flight, as was the jilted stewardess.
Following the incident, the Captain was disciplined and suspended for putting out a may-day call, which is only to be used in dire emergency. The stewardess was permanently grounded. Several of the cabin crew were witnesses at the hearing and all agreed that there was a gross over-reaction on the part of the Captain.
I got this indirectly from a member of that cabin crew a few weeks later. None of it was reported in any Scottish newspaper.
WWW GB, Hogmanay,was something special,back then,I shared them memories,you wrote about,sadly and it’s my own opinion,these Hogmanays,are long gone
Auldheid
Thanks for the reply
I do not have time to comment on this just now but, in light of further responses and postings, I think it would be salutary for some wholesale publication of the postings we were making in mid 2012 to remind us of what we knew or did not know.
I seem to remember Kojo, who was not famed for ever getting anything right, proclaiming that Rangers were heading for Donkey Island or some disastrous financial destination. I think we knew more than we are letting on. Phill predicted the Ticketus scenario 8 months before the Record “broke” the story.
Catch replies tomorrow
Kitalba
Back around page 2-3 of this thread Awe Naw made a post describing any one who did not agree with his anti board position as hard of thinking, a moron and positively relishing the prospect of engage in homosexual attacks such was our desire for the “old firm”.
When I posted a question as to why only some statements from the board seem to be accepted as they suit his agenda the general comment was then directed at me personally.
For the avoidance of doubt I did not complain to Paul67 as his comment did not annoy me. As my old mum used to say “what do you expect from a pig but a grunt!”.
Csnamalar –
Yes, everyone predicted liquidation after a point, when it was bloody obvious.
But prior to administration, nobody foresaw liquidation. I clearly remember Phil, Paul and BTC dismissing any notion of them dying, but I emphasise again, I’m talking about 2010, before administration.
AULD TAM:
It was an non-event, however I was not aware of all that you just told me. I’d love it if you had any links you could post on here.
My point in posting that was and is, that the PLC – TO MY MIND – have an obligation to the club, which will outlast them, to protect the club and the support from all spurious attacks. Again to my mind, often Celtic PLC don’t.
I really do believe there is never a wrong time to do the right thing. But before you do it, get wise, then come out fighting; please don’t go belly up to appease our demographics detractors.
And the supporters are the club for without the supporters….
AULD TAM:
Everybody knew the huns were shafted as far back as 2007/8. What we did not know was how shafted they were. None of us were privy to the extent of their shenanigans but we were all aware of the ‘possible’ ramifications.
If I remember rightly, Paul67 wrote about it on here back in 2006.
Morning all
.
My phone was playing up so I missed Aw Naw’s receipt of what Jock Brown called ‘ the ultimate sanctiion’. I thought he could be a touch judgemental and was especially so yesterday afternoon c4 30 but not offensively so IMO. He can seem a bit condescending and was seldom constructive whilst he may, like others here,not be as clever as he thinks he is He has though been one of the most consistently interesting, irreverent, challenging and laugh-out-loud posters in the years I have read the blog.
Another poster – one who has posted this morning- seems to me to be much more personally abusive than Aw Naw ever was and seems infinitely more objectonable than Kojo (who I got on with mostly) or my own betes noir Alfie Noakes/Thompson Twin/Pastry ever were. It is not my place to tell moderators who to ban – other than physical threats I think pretty much anything should go. But I can still wish that some people did not post as all they contribute is bile.
Have a good day.
Jimbo67
Might even have been back in 2004??? Happy to be corrected.
Auld tam,
When Paul was telling us for years that their spending and overestimation of the stadium worth, and it was all going to come crashing down around them, what exactly did you think he meant ?
I was always optimistic in my interpretation of his and the blogs interrogations of their annual returns, to be perfectly honest I never considered any other result.
Listen our club, Celtic Football Club,have to come out fighting , especially against the media in this country,to sit back and say nothing, just gives them more rope to hurt our club,fans,etc,A Lot of us on here ,have said many times,that Celtic should tell them enough is enough,there will be no more media facility’s, available ,and that include them other hun enclaves,Sky,S T V, and biggest culprit of them all BBC Scotland,
JJ laying into the Hun …
https://johnjamessite.com/2017/01/17/__trashed-5/
OWEN;
Apologies for the delay in response, still making the kids tea.
Can you please give me post times? Helps me manage my time here.
Reading back last nights blog…..
………”The Breadman, the Gardener, and the Slavering Gobsheen”
Sounds like a Raymond Briggs’ children’s book :)))
” Moderate fairly…or chuck it.”
Is it possible the Moderators have not yet seen CCE`s post ( s ) ?
JJ
Hot Smoked
Its not as if its the first time.
Celtic Champs Elect has posted far worse….not even as much as a yellow card.
Moderate….or dont.
Fairly….would be better.
HH
Canamalar –
Of course we all knew for years that they were headed for financial meltdown. Administration is exactly that. We all knew the Big Tax Case wouldn’t take them to liquidation because it was still at the lengthy tribunal case. Nobody knew that McCoist would lead them out of Europe or that Whyte would stop paying page and nhi. That’s what killed them.
My point is, up to a point of time, liquidation was not being foreseen. That is not a criticism of anybody. Just backing up what BRTH said.
I seem to remember a poster on here posting Neo Nazi propaganda. Quite rightly it was highlighted by a couple of posters.
The offender still posts here and is at it again this morning.
I’m sure the fact that he hasn’t been sanctioned as a simple omission.
(No Macjay not you :)) You are far more right wing than that).
Offski
http://WWW….
Just the way I remember New Years when I was a bhoy at home!
Lovely post and it brought back loads of memories of loads of people long gone.
But lovely just the same!
Thanks!
Kitalba
3.30pm blog time, looks to be on page 3 on my phone. His direct comment to me is gone but the rest are there. I don’t agree with his position and he doesn’t agree with me. No big deal to me but what is the adolescent fixation with sexual innuendo.
That was for WWW(GBWO)
Kitalba –
I was originally thinking I posted the details on CQN, but thinking of the year 2003, I wasn’t on CQN then, so my guess is it was the BBC forum. I posted the information I had been given, and a few days later, someone else posted a link to a newspaper report of the disciplinary hearing. I’m sure it was from a Welsh newspaper, which is a bit strange.
I’ll see if I can find that link.
Have we signed anyone else yet?
Pogmathonyahun aka Laird of the Smiles on 17th January 2017 9:24 am
Well said sir
Philbhoy
Steven Fletcher?:)
HH
THE GREEN MAN……….
AWE NAW!
Who knew what and when .
I know 3 Blue Noses ( who don’t know each other ) who chucked it within months of Murray’s arrival in 98 . Why — Murray was a spiv who had rightly been told – NO THANKS -by a skint and desperate Ayr United . They knew that what Ayr United had knocked back was now the business model at Ibrox . Second reason was that Murray was clearly intent on pandering to the mega loon bigots .All 3 forecast that Murray would lead the Deady Bears over the edge ( while singing the Billy Boys ) .
Craig Whyte ? -anybody with 2 fingers and access to a computer could have entered the name into a search engine and got pages and pages re the man’s business record. .. . A man with a serial history of bumping and “losing ” other peoples money .. A shyster , a bullshit artist etc ..
Horrible day -way down south – very cold , hailstones the size of marbles . Easily the worst winter since I came here in 2000
Philbhoy
However,…im sure it wont be the Carlton Cole type signing that Peter was rather fond of…..before the Bold Brendan turned up:)
Myself….id like to see Messi in the Hoops:)
HH
Clogher Celt @ 09.48 hrs.
For such a serious accusation, you must name names.
I have never seen any poster embrace the ideology of Nazism.
The vast majority of Celtic supporters and posters on here have no truck with facism, whether it be from the extreme right or the extreme left.
Let me be clear : Racism, homophobia, antisemitism, xenophobia and ultranationalism can all be evil and against the principal of free equality for all.
This country ( the UK) lost many fine people, indeed many posters lost many relatives fighting the tryany of facism.
To reiterate, for such a serious accusation you must name names, and have the proof to substantiate it.
HH to you.
MoonbeamsWD on 17th January 2017 8:14 am
That’s a very poor defence of PL BRT&H.
Eh can I make it plain that my post was neither a defence nor a prosecution of Peter Lawwell, and can I also make it plain that anyone could see that Rangers PLC was a huge loss making machine that would eventually fail!
What, perhaps, could not be seen were three things:
1. The financial crash of 2008 meant that David Murray nor anyone else could continue to run such a loss making business on endless lines of magic credit based on unrealistically revalued assets and cute (and possibly illegal) accounting measures.
2. The same financial crisis meant there was no credit available even to well run businesses and business people and so the pool of people who might be in a position to actually buy Rangers and run the business properly diminished and virtually disappeared – unless those people were prepared to really strip the football club back to basics which of course may well have angered and alienated the customer base!
3. I think, though I could be wrong, that part of what Peter Lawwell was getting at was that within football there were not enough business people who had the smarts to forsee that Rangers would eventually fail so spectacularly, the consequences of that failure, and that for years the club had effectively cheated the football system. Further, there was a failure to recognise that it was folly to hitch the entire games finances (TV contracts, sponsorships and so on) to a model which dived into the bin if one of the big two went bust.
And what he was going on to say was that nobody within football could trust Rangers in whatever guise to be run properly and so you couldn’t have any contracts which were dependent on them going forward.
Now, to be clear — no matter how robust any team is you should never predicate finances or future income on the basis of one team or another being able to participate because you have no control over that.
Further, In the past it was sheer folly on the part of Celtic when they decided to do anything “jointly” with Rangers – and that would be the same for any other team – and Celtic were and are in dire need of ditching all notions of there being an “old firm” product.
At a recent meeting with a pretty significant Celtic shareholder, an International businessman who has some influence at the club, I was told that there were three business models in the drawer.
1. Champions League business plan
2. Non Champions League Business Plan including players transfers
3. Celtic v Rangers Business Plan
When all else fails a version of No 3 comes out the drawer!
The same man also made it very plain that going forward there was no No 3 in his opinion and that any idea of No 3 should be confined to the wastebin.
I agreed.
It could be that others are starting to see that point of view although it should have been spotted far earlier IMHO.
Common sense says have nothing to do with that other business. It is a handicap not a potential opening or future revenue stream or a budding business partnership.
Avoid totally.
THE GREEN MAN……
Aye, me too!
GreenPinata
I can back Clogher Celt on what he says.
Ive seen the racist bs CCC posts from time to time.
Im sure it will be in the CQN vaults somewhere.
Ive seen him post stuff like that….with my own eyes.
Alfie Noakes/Thompson Twin/ Mr Pastry etc……all the same crap.
HH
BRTH:
3. Celtic v Rangers Business Plan
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
10 mill fir kieran, are these knobs oan drugs or what!!.