Like you, I was delighted at Ajax performance and 1-4 win in the Bernabeu last night. It was a victory for clubs in small nations everywhere, who have been disenfranchised by leagues with more valuable television contracts. This was not a backs against the wall performance, like our win over Barcelona in 2012, Ajax attacked relentlessly, they could have scored more.
When Dutch fans left the Johan Cruyff Arena last month, having watched Real Madrid secure a 1-2 victory, they must have assumed their European adventure was over for this season, but they would have consoled themselves with the knowledge that at least they did better than last season. Then, they were beaten home and away in the Europa League qualifiers by Rosenborg, just two weeks after Celtic dumped Rosenborg out of the Champions League qualifiers.
A glass ceiling exists for clubs from the smaller leagues, and when Brendan Rodgers left the building last week, the point was made to me that perhaps group stage fodder in the Champions League is the new limit for a club with Celtic’s resources.
What Ajax have established is that it is very difficult for clubs like them and Celtic to perform consistently well in Europe. Good players will leave quickly, replacing with players of a similar standard is haphazard, but while an occasional defeat to the likes of Rosenborg (or AEK) will happen, the ceiling is significantly higher than one win and five defeats in the Champions League group stage. We should not be cannon fodder.
All efforts at Celtic right now are focussed on winning the league and Scottish Cup, but by the summer, the club will have set their ambitions for the medium-term. By any reasonable measure, Brendan was a roaring success, but for the money (football budget, not just his wage), we could do much better in the Champions League. Ajax will force us to ask some harder questions. Winning 10-in-a-row will be an historic high, but it is not the only yardstick in town.
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Celtic40Me @ 2.13
I think it’s probably a matter of culture/education/intellect/maturity when you look at the difference between young Dutch and young Scottish players. All the more reason to devote more resources to our youth teams, teaching youngsters the skills but also working on their human development.
50SHADES@2-23
Or we could try to improve on being Europe’s whipping boy.
THE STAR ABOVE THE CREST on 6TH MARCH 2019 2:25 PM
Thumbs up
Like I said I don’t know any Scottish seventeen year olds but everything I read suggests that generation is smoking less, drinking less eating better and going to the gym more. Maybe things are changing for the better
That sounds like a very selfish way of looking at the world – societal change is great because it means we’ll see better footballers at Celtic. But this is a football blog and I don’t really care :)
There is too much emphasis within organised boys football on winning . Passion , blood and snotters , can only take you so far.
79CAPS on 6TH MARCH 2019 2:44 PM
That sounds like a lot to ask given our limited resources, but Id hope some of it’s already being done
Yet again our media are a main part of our problems with football in this country.
Without doubt the worst act of violence was at Pittodrie and has received zero attention, surprise surprise.
The throwing of a seat into a packed area has 100% chance of maiming a fan yet our media are only focusing on a banner in that game.
Any Celtic fan’s wanting strict liability be careful what you wish for, our authorities have already proven 1 club is too big to punish even with a judgement from the highest court in the land.
@ THE EXILED TIM on 6TH MARCH 2019 2:40 PM
I agreed to an extent.
As far as I’m aware (although this may be incorrect), in Holland children learn to play football by taking part in 5-a-side games or similar numbers below 11-a-side. I think this continues to quite an old age. The focus is on technique, movement, control, with less of an emphasis on physicality because, let’s face it, any player can put on mass and strength in the gym with some training (Ryan Christie being a prime example).
However, few players can learn technique, control and movement to the same extent at a later stage in their development; it’s not intuitive or natural by that stage.
The problem in Scotland and England is that the emphasis is all on winning and at a young age that translates not so much to skill or quality, rather being bigger and stronger than your opponent. It would take a complete revamp of our approach to rectify these systemic issues.
Could be without Tadic they are the much the same Ajax that weve seen for several years.
Tadic was the difference and the match winner . Involved in most of their goals.
BORGO67 on 6TH MARCH 2019 2:10 PM
Off the top of my head I’m struggling to think of any sport in Scotland that has produced a teenage superstar.
Obviously putting the conveyor belt of Auchenhowie to one side.
———————-
Laura Muir who won her first gold in a team event when she was still a teenager. Our local vet ( Claiming her as part of Glasgow University vet school who frequent and hold quiz nights in Loch 27 ) has just won more gold medals.
HH.
!!BADA BING!! on 6TH MARCH 2019 12:40 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47459485
————————————————————————
Bada,
Has this article been altered since the first time you read it or am I just missing something?
My friends in Celtic,
Arguably NFL has a better pedigree than the Ajax manager Eric ten Hag.
The Ajax Manager only played in the Netherlands and has only managed in the Netherlands with the exception of managing Bayern Munich’s reserve team.
HH.
GREENPINATA
Laura Muir is a wonderful athlete. I’m sure she is in her mid twenties and probably reached world class two or three years ago.
FAN-A-TIC
Totally agree about good coaches . One look at the success of the Welsh and Irish rugby teams would back that up
Mad Mitch
“You have to give those in charge of the club the ability to pick out the good in the Ajax model and ignore the bad”
Of course, and that’s largely what Celtic do – pick the best bits from other models (not one in isolation), and adapt them to make their own.
There’s an argument that it’s been so successful (allowing for inevitable setbacks) that the model has outgrown the club. It develops players we cannot keep, generates cash we cannot spend, and gets us into tourneys we cannot win.
The longstanding quandary between Champions League ambition with a Europa League budget, versus the risk of Champions League budget with a Europa League income has yet to be resolved. In the meantime, we develop yet more players to sell, generate yet more cash to bank, and play in more tourneys we can’t win.
Of course, it’s not a perpetual position. The model is adapted as circumstances and judgement direct. Equally, we’re never more than some unfavourable circumstances and poor judgement to bring it all back to doh.
Peter Lawwell will dispute this level of sensitivity, assuring that the model works over the cycle, not the season, but the season is managed with the cycle in mind, a change in which might very well change everything. It’s notable that generally, the cycle coincides with the manager’s tenure, and our’s just skyed the park mid-cycle.
Getting the right* Manager appointment means getting the guy who best fits the model; one who can adapt to it, perform with it and improve it. Lenny in the box seat meantime in some respects provides continuity, but the tension between football ambition and operating constraints remains to be addressed, and we might note that it was this tension that led to Lenny skying it himself 5 years ago.
I feel I’m rambling now, Apols.
TBB
The Battered Bunnet on 6th March 2019 3:05 pm
‘we might note that it was this tension that led to Lenny skying it himself 5 years ago.’
****
I rather hope that the passage of time, and subsequent events, have ironed out that particular issue.
My view is that BR was overrated as a Celtic manager, and NFL was underrated as a Celtic manager.
TBB @ 3.05
Working to a plan with everybody onboard is pretty easy.
The hard part is getting everyone onboard.
2018/19 will go down as the season CFC became a house divided with playground levels of pettiness and squabbling — CEO and manager unable to communicate unless there was an adult in the room or a meeting had been called with an agreed agenda.
Totally shambolic — we paid our monies and were served up with this debacle.
Consequently it will not be difficult to improve on this situation.
Regarding the future we need to have a target.
My thoughts would be credible CL participation and a better supporter experience.
Can we afford this on our projected income — yes, no reason why not.
We should be able to overcome this season’s setbacks and move on.
My starting point would be to pay top dollar for a Top 20 manager and put £20mill into next season’s player investment budget. We are flabby regarding wages but a number of high earners will be moving on.
SID
Excuse me if i dismiss your judgement on others.
The coaching team agreed with you?
I’m pretty sure they know nothing about you.
Reasoned debate i’m all for.
I think we might be focusing too much on Ajax instead of concentrating on the infrastructure of Dutch/European football. I can’t speak for Holland but virtually every town in Germany has a local youth team with excellent facilities for the young players and the associated community with high quality pitches and club houses, including food and drink (alcohol included). The teams are part of the community with very good coaching from an early age. I would imagine Holland would be similar.
The reason we have become a footballing backwater is down to the ftSFA who have happily overseen the decline of Scottish football over the last 40 years for the benefit of two clubs, one now deceased, and a lack of facilities. Where there were once 50 pitches there is no longer one. It is also a cultural thing, as I said football in Germany is part of the community.
I also believe that the schools dropped extracurricular activities like football after school due to UK government cuts. The EPL and other English leagues have the luxury of being able to buy the best players, and a lot of bad ones, because of the Sky/BT money. The England team at last year’s World Cup punched above its weight and suffers from lack of real national talent because of this TV revenue. They also lack the footballing community of continental Europe.
Celtic can only hope to compete in Europe by investing in a management team that knows when to attack and when to defend and by hopefully nurturing the young talent coming through the academy. We have some fine young players at the Club but we as fans are part of the problem – you just need to look on here at each transfer window when posters start acting like spoilt brats at Christmas demanding this and demanding that.
What is the answer? How long is a piece of string?
Genetically, the Dutch are a tall,strong race. Even the women.
Genetically, the Scots are wee, strong race.
A good big un, is better than a good wee un.
If you add in the natural self discipline and respect the mainland Europeans demonstrate , you have a potent mix for a talented sports person.
The Hands
I often go and watch the local school kids and youth teams playing and training here, it’s night and day compared to bonnie scotland, weans are no matter their size taught ball control first and foremost, if you can’t control a football….
They do a lot of two touch control, one to control the ball the next to pass it, they then switch to controlling and passing with the other feet, the speed that they do this is astonishing, these skills are taught from pre school and all through the system, scotland could learn a thing or two.
HH
pog- after reading the link i posted again, I’m sure it has been changed from last night……HH
BORGO67 on 6TH MARCH 2019 2:35 PM
Just catching up and read your post.
Look on mine as an endorsement of yours and not plagiarism!
Pog
It’s the same here in Spain, every town and village have some sort of sporting facility regardless of the cost, the kids are tomorrows future so they look after them, seems like a decent way to go about things ;-)
HH
Watching the video of the reserves v Dundee, it looked to me that Aitchison is carrying a bit too much wait for a lad just turned nineteen.
It may just be a stocky build, but he has the frame of a much more “mature” player.
TET,
My youngest Bhoy used to play in the local leagues in Germany and you would visit towns with local footballing facilties that were on par or better than teams like Hamilton Accies, etc. The games were competitive but nothing like the kicking lumps out of one another that you see in various venues around Scotland ?
Pog
You should take a wander up to EKFC, or Cumbernauld Colts, or Spartans, or or or…
There are literally dozens of community clubs in the towns across Scotland doing exactly as you suggest, and – I should say – largely without any meaningful support from SFA beyond provision of coaching courses, licencing and safeguarding procedures, much of which more lip service than substance.
Pretty much all SPFL academy players come through the early stages at such clubs, and most of them return there afterwards.
There’s a huge amount going on, it just doesn’t get much visibility.
RM skipper Sergio Ramos´s decision to force a yellow card late in the game when RM were winning 1-2 in Holland two weeks ago, in order to sit out the return leg and therefore have a clean record for the quarter finals speaks volumes. These machinations have ultimately come back to bite them on their “culos”. Undoubtedly “Los Blancos” have had some great individuals and some great teams down the years…Laurie Cunningham for one, he who was largely responsible for the turnaround in the quarter final tie against us way back in 1980. However, they have always been a supremely pragmatic team with their eyes always on the prize and not very concerned whether the means justify the ends or not. Counter attack play is one of their mainstays. Loads of teams open the scoring at the Bernabeu, rattling the support and the home team. Then the “epica” or the fury takes over and with an ordering off and a couple of penalties thrown in they usually turned it around. However the up and coming Spanish teams don´t wilt in the stadium any longer and Girona´s recent 2-1 victory was a sign that their problems run deep. Barcelona beat them twice in their stadium and now Ajax. The degree to which Ajax were written off by everyone baffled me. Didn´t Shalke beat Madrid easily in the Bernabeu in Champions . Weren´t Juventus hard done to when ONLY beating RM 1-3? Ajax are Ajax for McGeady´s sake!! So all of this is not that surprising. If you underestimate your rivals you are scoring an own goal. NB Celtic ….and that´s not Nir Bitton. After Celtic got heavily done by Barcelona not that long ago a big journo here was saying teams like Celtic shouldn´t even be allowed to play in the Champions league if that is their standard, I try to post a comment on their articles to counter their arguments.
Hooliganism seems to be in vogue in auld Europe. The Ajax radical support of 4,000 here in Madrid yesterday had to be escorted around the city making a right erse of themselves. Having experienced personally, through going to football in the West of Scotland in the seventies and eighties the hooliganism in Scotland is not an issue today…it just doesn´t match. The shortbread media and the Edinbuggers are using the singing debate to stop talking about how Celtic are winning. As a “get back in your box” strategy with Irvine Welsh even chipping in. Paul was right to draw our attention to the fact that this anti social and violent behaviour is a societal problem not a football problem, And possibly a psychological problem and people need help. And Paul mentioned something else which is very poignant, its a male problem. And the solution to that, is to make the game experience at scottish stadiums more attractive to girl pals and girlfriends, wives and maws. With more women around some guys might not get up to such daft things.
rimtimtim
wives and maws
I’m working on a wee something that may help engage that audience
August or
Christmas at the very latest
THOMTHETHIM FOR OSCAR OK on 6TH MARCH 2019 3:35 PM
I’m not sure why everyone seems so quick to overlook the genetic differences.
If the standard of coaching is bad why are people coming over to the Largs Mafia HQ and being successful ?. Also, Paul Lambert gained his badges in Germany & he’s doing great :))
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0_QufdXgAAMCy3.png
smiley Stuart McCall has not aged well thing
Braw
twittery thing
Who would win a fight between a feather mattress and a memory one
Maybe our school children have had winning ways driven out of them by the time our football academies welcome them.
Even positive coaching Scotland has redefined the term ” winning”. ” True winning means giving your best possible effort”
With that mindset no wonder results can be considered secondary.
HH.
The Height children grow to as adults is far more influenced by nutrition and healthcare and the prenatal health of the mother, than it is by genetics.
Good diet + good healthcare = taller adults.
The WGS genetics rant was total baws. That’s about as kind as I can put it.
Adi D
“If the standard of coaching is bad why are people coming over to the Largs Mafia HQ and being successful ?”
They don’t come for the coaching, they come for the certification. It’s cheaper and quicker than elsewhere. They learn in their own country, and head over here for the badges.
bhoys with Levis on …genetics…
smiley Wrangler bhoy ma self thing
white
Braw
…..and they get to meet Craig Broon…
Anybody else wonder why Celtic supporters except for our host would be “delighted” by Ajax’s performance last night?
Maybe we should look closely at the modus operandi BUT their supporters came to Glasgow and aided and abetted by SEVCO supporters, permanently disfigured a pub landlord if I remember correctly?
Our fans were attacked in Amsterdam by both them and the police and many supporters were sweating for months over trumped up charges after getting their heads kicked in by the police.
I don’t wish them well, up there with Hamburg and Rapid Vienna for me. I hope they get humped in the next round.
Huns
Robinbhoy
I admire, commend and share your bitterness towards Ajax as a club and their Hunnish borders.
HH jg