I always cringe when a prime minster meets the US President and that hoary old phrase, “the special relationship” is wheeled out. It is a relationship without definition, no more or less unique than any other international relationship. I doubt many US citizens are familiar with the term, to me, it feels that the UK is reaching to glow in the reflection of another’s elevated status.
You can therefore imagine my delight when I saw Ibrox livery on Sunday. “Old Firm”, “This is the Old Firm”. All that was missing was the implied, “Celtic complete us”.
Celtic fans campaign to stop using this term predates Oldco’s liquidation by many years. As a guide, I never used it here (since 2004) nor did most others. We knew then the association hurt the Celtic brand and that we needed to put as much clear blue water between us and them. Celtic got onboard in 2012, when Oldco ceased, and Newco applied to join the SFA (as Sevco Scotland).
They were not alone, early match reports featured “The Rangers”, as news outlets struggled to square what happened with what others want to read.
What does it matter to me? Not much. If it was the other way around, I would absolutely claim Newco Celtic were in fact, just Celtic. There is no point pretending otherwise (although I would be wrong). If it was Celtic that liquidated in 2012, Rangers fans would never let the liquidation fact drop. You would hear little else from them, it is the ultimate rivalry banter, why should they ignore it?
If it was Celtic that liquated in 2012, it would not matter to me what Rangers or their fans said about my club. That relationship is a personal thing. The facts are known, we are all free to interpret as we see fit, why should my world view be determined by how others regard what is now an historical event?
In prominently displaying the “Old Firm” livery, Newco were responding to 10 years of trolling by Celtic fans, handing them a victory they could scarcely believe when they saw it. All the club managed to achieve is get everyone talking about why Celtic fans want no part of this phrase. None of those reasons reflect well on the interests of Newco.
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PETERLATCHFORDSBELLY on 5TH APRIL 2022 12:39 PM
A club run by knuckledraggers for knuckledraggers.
Ange has driven a stake through their heart. We will go on and win this league and they’re in the toilet. Again. Surely austerity must follow, finally?
____
I think they’ll gamble again in the summer and spend (will lose quite a few). They’re capable in Europe and could well qualify for the champions league.
Imagine if Man City physio was hit by a bottle at a game on Sunday. Where would the media be with the story?
There was extra semi-final tickets but don’t waste your time, all gone😕
I’ve often thought what I would believe if Celtic had been liquidated. I’m pretty sure I’d know and probably admit we weren’t the same club – I mean the facts on liquidation are clear.
Derry City and a Club close to me when growing up, Newry City were both liquidated in the last ten years. Both Clubs have been phoenixed since and both clubs openly admit they’re a phoenix. They lay claim to the culture of the old clubs and do speak about them in relation to their own history but don’t claim to be the original club as that would be pretty ludicrous.
Liquidation denial is for fools, I’m pretty sure had history been different to Celtic that P67 would not be claiming we’re the same club, he’s too smart to be at that nonsense.
DENIABHOY, AN TEARMANN & INIQUITOUSIV
Following my post on Sunday (7.55 pm on p19, if anyone is interested) about UEFA coefficients and the developing myth of Sevco’s majority contribution to the SPFL champions qualifying for the CL group stages next season, I notice that three Celtic sites (67 HailHail, Vital Celtic and The Celtic Blog) all ran with articles on that topic yesterday.
However, in each case, it looks like they used the UEFA site as their source. This only lists the 5-year club coefficients, which are used by UEFA for seeding their draws. In this table, clubs gain points for reaching certain rounds in qualifying and, in the group stages, for wins (2 pts) and draws (1 pt), with bonuses for progression.
The coefficients that matter for determining access to competitions are the country coefficients. Here all matches from all clubs generate points. In addition to the points referred to, above, points are also awarded for qualifiers (1 pt for wins and 0.5 pts for draws). The total points gained per country each year is divided by the number of clubs entered from that country, giving that year’s coefficient. So, from 16-17 to 20-21, Scotland accumulated 133.5 points; 59.0 from Celtic, 49.5 from Sevco and 25.0 from the others. Over the 5 years, this averaged 33.375, placing Scotland in 11th place and earning its champions entry to the CL group stage in 22-23, provided that this year’s CL winners gain entry through their league (see below*).
With Scotland rising to 9th this year, the 22-23 SPFL champions will definitely qualify directly for the CL group stage. For the first time in their brief existence, this will predominantly be due to Sevco’s 66.0 points (so far) with our total dropping slightly to 58.0 and the rest totalling 24.5 points.
All data is drawn from Bert Kassie’s site (www. kassiesa.net) where you can check my arithmetic If you are still awake/interested…
*I haven’t seen official confirmation of this, but I think that if Russian clubs are excluded from next year’s competitions, then, since Russia are ranked 8th for the 22-23 entry, Scotland will climb to 10th, guaranteeing CL group stage qualification for the SPFL 21-22 champions.
(Apologies for the long post…almost approaching those of the Special Seville Blooter Man)
SKY make so much use of the Old Firm tag in all the trailers , however they excelled themselves when reading out the starting line-ups on Sunday.
Ian Crocker must have been going for the Guinness World Record , how many times someone can repeat the phrase ‘Old Firm’.
The amount of players who were making their “Old Firm” debut, players making their second “Old Firm” appearance, etc. .etc.
Quite nauseating…
I think Neil Lennon currently holds the record.
The Onlooker
AN DÚN on 5TH APRIL 2022 2:19 PM
Your mention of denial reminded me of this…
https://twitter.com/DandeLi57087109/status/1510976237476487175?t=3F_bWK5NCMJnGjNFVk0a3w&s=08
…which neatly defines them.
18 YARD MAN on 5TH APRIL 2022 2:27 PM
I was looking at just that last night and this morning, you’re spot on.
If they hadn’t messed up & spent an extra season in the championship or lost to hibs in the cup final they might have been able to contribute more
Rangers hand out ‘Old Firm’ flags at fan village ahead of Celtic as unseen derby branding emerges
😂😂😂😂
Following events from Sunday’s match surely Celtic must take some action.
1) No tickets for league match at Celtic Park.
2) statement emphasising that “The Old Firm” concept is nil &void .
3)public opology from “The Rangers”to all employees of Celtic who attended the game on Sunday
Do I think it will happen No ,our board is gutless
Bollox…
In my post at 2.27 pm…
“Over the 5 years, this averaged 33.375, placing Scotland in 11th place and…”, should have been…
“Over the 5 years, with 4 teams entered each year, this totalled 33.375, placing Scotland in 11th place and…”
DESSYBHOY
who enjoys being abused for 2 hours about their religion
Protestant Celtic supporters don’t need to wait for home games v Rangers for that. They get abused about their religion often enough by their own kind at various Celtic home games.
Accurate piece P67.
Even for them , the whole OF thing everywhere was bizarre beyond words.
No-one has summed them or their reputation up better than Spanish Newspaper El Mundo in 2007, following an away game at Barcelona in 2007. Pretty much everyone gets why we don’t want to be associated with them. Apart from them of course…
“Dear Rangers supporters, don’t come back to Barcelona. And not because you’re team are a bunch of cloggers, which they are. It’s not that: the Camp Nou often has weak, boring teams that only defend, run and foul, teams that have no place in the top tier competitions. But Rangers defend, run and foul badly. Their defenders are butchers, the midfielders have three feet and the forwards are wardrobes.
But most of all, it would be preferable that Rangers never come to Barcelona again because every time they do they wreck it. You (Huns) destroyed the Camp Nou seats 35 years ago and this time we’ve had 48 hours of thuggery, provocation, fighting and low-life drunkards all over the city, which you’ve made a mess of at your whim.
Stay and vomit in your own home, urinate in the corner of your own sitting room, fight with your own neighbours Celtic (who deserve a medal for putting up with you) and foul the streets of Glasgow. Don’t come back to Barcelona, you’re an embarrassment. And while we’re at it, don’t play in the Champions League. You’re not up to scratch, either on a sporting or human level.
There are noisy supports who, even though they drink large quantities of beer, make friends. Not you lot, because you turn everywhere you go into dumps. You are undesirables.
And so too are those who sell on their tickets. These people swindle Barcelona because they are selling their tickets illegally. And it makes other (Barcelona) supporters angry. If you’re not going to the match, give your ticket to a family member or a friend, or like many others, use the ‘Seient Lliure’ service. (SJR I think this is a scheme where you can re-sell unwanted tickets through the club)
It is the club and UEFA who decide who tickets should be sold to. If only you, in a moment of sanity, decided not to travel without one. As that is impossible, it is necessary to crack down on those who sell them illegally. But best of all would be never being drawn against Rangers ever again.”
As a minimum their next home game should be played behind closed doors. It wont happen of course. There was some official guy on the radio this morning basically saying this is a problem right across Scottish football and there should be an enquiry into what can be done about it. They will be calling in favours left right and centre, its already being labelled as an ‘old firm’ problem, sure the glue on the gates is already getting more publicity than our physio being hit on the head with a flying glass bottle, and we all know who glued the gates.
I also noticed on one of their forums that they are confirting themselves with the thought that qualification for the champions league will be easy as they’ll likely be seeded in the non-champions route.
They seem to want not only Russia to be thrown out but are looking forward to Ukranian teams being unable to fulfil their fixtures so they can go straight into the groups. Which is nice and totally inaccurate
Qualification could be easier we thought: there’s a good chance they’ll play only two ties and be seeded, most likely against teams finishing second in The Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and Turkey, and then if seeded, possibly also a second-placed French team in the play-off round.
It’s entirely possible they luck their way into the groups with easy draws helped by their good club co-efficient
It’s also possible that it’ll be us who have to go through it all but if we do it should be easier than this season
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1452309/Sturgeon-news-Leo-Kearse-GB-News-Rangers-Celtic-fans-Scotland-Euro-2020-latest-vn
TMcL
Well raise it with the Police Stewards and Celtic plc
Deniabhoy 2:08pm
I often mentally apply the 400 mile rule to how events are reported in Scotland wrt “The Rangers”.
Press freedom doesn’t seem to exist – the hackneyed ‘ones as bad as the other’ is continually peddled either explicitly or by implication.
I see that the First Minister apologised a few weeks ago for historical witch burning – but any acknowledgement that ‘sectarianism’ in Scotland is rooted in anti Irish Catholic bigotry remains unsaid.
The phrase ‘truth and reconciliation’ is spot on – but the truth has to come first.
18 YARD MAN
Many thanks for outlining the co-efficient set-up and for emphasising the difference between club and country figures.
Much appreciated.
DESSYBHOY
TMcL
Well raise it with the Police Stewards and Celtic plc
No need.
I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy.
If they do finish second this season, make it to the cl qualification play off round, lose there (it’s worth €5m) and have a decent showing again in the Europa league I don’t think it will be the financial disaster we’re all looking forward to.
If we flop in the cl and only play 3 games in Europe all season the difference won’t be huge.
If only we knew all this and stopped listening to the talk of £50m shots in the arm and £40m free money it might have stopped some of the hysterics we saw earlier in the season. Doubt it though
Paul was right, this season was the big one.
No hypocrisy from me, unacceptable raise it.
TOM MCLAUGHLIN @ 2:58
DESSYBHOY
who enjoys being abused for 2 hours about their religion
Protestant Celtic supporters don’t need to wait for home games v Rangers for that. They get abused about their religion often enough by their own kind at various Celtic home games.
—-
I applaud you for pointing this out on here. There is hatred & abuse on ‘our side of the fence’, let’s not pretend otherwise. We rightly call out the Ibrox followers – so let’s clean-up our own act too, both at Celtic Park and at away matches….it’s about time!
https://thecelticstar.com/stv-subliminally-implies-celtic-to-blame-for-sundays-shameful-scenes/
Shock Horror
Qualifiers for them uns….a slight rider. Don;t look at the recent past for future performance..
-They will be stuck with Gio and season ticket sales will be going into the bucket for court cases and payoffs.
-Players gone contract-wise include Goldson, Arfield, Ramsey, Davis, Balogun, McGregor & Diallo (all 7 of them have played parts in the last 2 games against us, so important).
-Any remaining playing assets will need to be flogged (Morelos still waiting) and replaced quickly before the Qualifiers hit them hard (as we well know that’s unforgiving) so need a new playing style without him to bed in.
They’ve come to the end of a short 1 season peak (last year), need rebuilt, have traded very badly recently (Sands, Polish right back, Ramsey, Diallo, etc)…..and are effin skint.
Don;t equate past Europa heights with what faces them in the summer fhellas.
They are effed.
And I am laughing !!!
HH
Booking flights to travel back to the old country in August. I assume the season starts earlier due to World Cup and the corresponding shut down? Would love to get to Celtic Park for a game.
Anyone know the season kick-off?
Aiiple
30th July is the first weekend….
Or flag day at Celtic Park, as we’ve become accustomed to :)
HH
SEASON 2022/23 – KEY DATES
CINCH PREMIERSHIP
Fixture round 1
Weekend of July 30/31, 2022
Fixture round 16
Weekend of November 12/13, 2022
Fixture round 17
Weekend of December 17/18, 2022
Fixture round 33
Weekend of April 22/23, 2023
Fixture round 38
Weekend of May 27/28, 2023
ERNIE LYNCH on 5TH APRIL 2022 1:02 PM
What is this endless fascination with what the hacks have to say about anything?
It’s like the internet has still to be invented.
Weird.
————
It’s possible so many of us are still meeja watchers becos we know they still have the ability to spin their preferred (self serving) line which kinda affects beliefs on/perceptions about key topics. We watch, cos the ‘dreamweavers’ (esp regarding reporting of the ‘OF’ ) still need watching!
T’internet has sure given us many more sources to grab our tidbits from, but we’re grazing from a very diffused scene so knowledge among the supporter blogosphere isn’t universally shared or understood. Even in the Celtic blogosphere there’s heaps of bollox, gossip and misinformation – just as there is in mainstream meeja.
Not long back, one of the former patrons of this site was virtually hounding Ange back to the airport saying he should be nowhere near the job!!
From earlier, Celtic did issue a short Statement re the attack on Physio, basically confirming that one of our employees was attacked & injured & the matter was now with Police Scotland.
Huns confirmed they were co-operating with Police re bottle throwing incidents and all CCTV footage had been made available to them,
Regarding Champions League Qualifiers they kick off on the 5th July so it will be a very short close Season for them. they could have a game on the 12th July, that might cheer them up.
DESSYBHOY
I wasn’t accusing you of hypocrisy. My point was aimed at the minority of Celtic supporters who chant sectarian abuse at games.
They are the hypocrites.
The recent media reporting of the “The Rangers” fan’s behavior on Sunday highlights why we have to do all we can to kill the “Old Firm” myth. The fact that our board chooses to accept this and even endorses it by agreeing to friendly matches around the globe is sickening me to the point that I am willing to give up football and Celtic rather than be associated with them. We can start by not mentioning them in any song or chant we sing at Celtic Park.
No doubt the huns will have crayons at the ready, concocting lies to blame us with in a statement.
.
TMcL
Ok no problem
Under the banner “continuous evolution” (surely an oxymoron) UEFA has restructured their competitions from 2024 season.
There will be 4 more places in the Champions league group stages , but they will actually not be groups, it will be one big league table.
So they get their European Super league of sorts.
And to make it really complicated, those that qualify will be guaranteed 10 FIXTURES, (5 at home and 5 away) but against 10 different clubs.
All very interesting, and reading the qualification routes, these CLUB co-efficient are going to be really critical in where you might get placed ,
its complicated, but i will post some of the details,
to be honest, your going to have to be really piss poor not to qualify for one of the leagues.
There is a history around the filing of the Trademark (Word Mark) “Old Firm”and “The Old Firm”.
Celtic and Rangers had to get the registration of those words by another owner of the mark stuck off due to non-use.
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-decisionmaking/t-challenge/t-challenge-decision-results/o07700.pdf
What I don’t understand is that the mark applies to “Class 39: Transport; packaging and storage of goods; travel arrangement; distribution of electricity; travel information; provision of car parking facilities.”
It does not apply to “Class 41: Education; providing of training; entertainment; on-line entertainment; sporting and cultural activities; lottery services; electronic games services provided by means of the Internet; the provision of on-line electronic publications.”
Nor does it apply to sports goods which would also seem a category which should likely be covered.
My friend, ex President of the Institute of Trademark Agents, responded to my questions “Search me chief, I was not involved. I admit it is a pretty odd registration.”
So, in theory, albeit it that objections could be raised by Celtic or Rangers, anyone could apply to register these words in connection with “sporting and cultural activities”.
18 Yard Man.
Good one.
For the first time in ages, I actually went on to Bert Kassies just after full time on Sunday …
…. and was going to post on here about season 23/24 ….
But didn’t want to get ahead of myself
🤔
One other factor to consider.
As part of that 5-year measure, season 1718 coefficient points drop off next year.
Over and above the Russia situation …
3 other close contenders to Scotland – Ukraine, Serbia and Austria – lose very decent coefficient points for 1718.
Scottish teams did less well comparatively that season.
As I said above, I don’t want to get ahead of myself …
But it looks highly probable the Scottish champs will get direct entry the season after next.
I looked at the champions league payments last night during a quiet night shift.
I’m sure P67 will touch on this when the time comes but from what I could garner, the payments are a great deal above the Europa.
I think there’s 3 basic payments to all clubs:
Group stage money – 15.25 million
UEFA Co-efficient money – Under 10 million to us going by Club Brugge last season
TV Pool – which for us is substantial because we’re lumped in with the EPL sides under the UK and last time in the Cl, this was worth 16 million to us.
I think we’re talking 40 million euros before we acquire a single point which stand at 2.8 million for a win and 900K for a draw.
Considering a modest performance of one win and two draws, that’s just under 5 million alongside three full houses.
I think the the CL could be worth just under 50 million euros to us, the Europa will not come close to that.