This afternoon the Blue Knights (plural!) held a media conference as Paul Murray and Brian Kennedy explained their “credible plan” to rescue Rangers. The quantum of their bid was:
£5.5m cash on delivery of a CVA, £500k of which is for delivery of Craig Whyte’s shares.
£2m dependent on European earnings in the coming years.
£3.5m the company will collect from those who currently owe Rangers money.
Uefa have confirmed that they regard UK companies who dispose of debts via a CVA to have breached their insolvency rules and therefore be ineligible for European competition for 3 years.
It is likely that the administrators or any liquidator would be able to collect much or all of the £3.5m earnings from Rangers debtors.
Mr Kennedy said “the tax case is irrelevant to this CVA”. Mr Murray was a director of Rangers during their controversial EBT period which led to the big tax case. The tax authorities may consider the “the tax case” more relevant than Mr Kennedy.
Mr Murray and Mr Kennedy were both clearly exasperated that Duff and Phelps felt unable to accept their offer to take the club through a CVA. Mr Kennedy could not have been clearer that attempts to establish a Newco would fail, that only a CVA would enable Rangers to survive and it was now too late for this. On Radio Scotland last week Mr Murray explained that, in his view, a CVA was necessary as a Newco could not survive without European income for three years.
Throughout the media conference it occurred to me that perhaps they don’t know Uefa’s rule on a CVA. Unfortunately the question was not put to either man by the media. When asked if they knew if the other bidder had put more money on the table Mr Kennedy said, “I don’t care if [ours is]the largest bid”. Perhaps, but creditors will, and under an enormous amount of scrutiny, Duff and Phelps are likely to car a great deal.
It will be interesting to hear how Duff and Phelps respond but in summary, my two key questions are:
Would HMRC accept a CVA from a director of Rangers during the operation of their EBT scheme?*
How deliverable is the £2m dependent on European income considering a CVA would exclude Rangers from European football for three years?
The plan was flush full of irrelevant details they had clearly spent a lot of time on, such as the non-exec support of former managers, and a Rangers FC Constitution, forbidding the club from spending more than it earned, but sounded light on how it would convince HMRC to accept a few pennies in the pound from a company with such a chequered tax history, and was potentially slapdash on the European income element.
*Mr Murray suggested he would withdraw from the consortium if Craig Whyte objected to his participation but the lack of attention to HMRC’s view on him appeared to be an obvious oversight.
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Got SB renewal in today,I see you can opt out of the Huns games,instead of Not renewing,just opt out of them Games..Clear Message we want to Watch Celtic without them..and Save à few quid..
i wouldnt like to work for kennedy ,an arrogant man but thats how these chancers make there cash , through fear and intimadation. oh i worked for murray years ago mimtec livingston all his top boys were nothing short of being chancers.its true what some peope say it seems that all the evil people get all the breaks in life,anyway there is something about that kennedy
from last thread.
LiviBhoy on 11 May, 2012 at 16:43 said:
The SFA should have put this club out of their misery a long time ago when they first discovered non payment of taxes.
This is cruel now. It’s shameful and embarrassing.
I’m loving every second of this!
LB – JCGE
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Livibhoy , mate .imho EUFA should have put the SFA out of business the first time they showed favour to the orcs . also a great piece from alex thompson . i just wish to god he would now turn his sights on eufa and ask why as the governing body of european football are they not hammering that mob . Alex its all it takes to inform them they are also being scrutinised now .
jimtim.
coorslad,
at last, couldnt suggest it myself, too many entrenched on sight of my name :o)
TGSC
I agree – I think it was imperative that everybody got to the end of the season before the real sH*t hits the fan.
That said, the marching season is looming – Sondy will be in his element.
Still HM Govt. need to try out they new fangled water canon thingmyies somewhere though…
MICK11 on 11 May, 2012 at 20:24 said:
I held a similar point of view, but reading what some of the poster on here had written I have changed that view. The views of Paul67 obviously, BOurnesouprecipe and Broganrogantrevinoandhogan. The last in particular from yesterday, I’ll find it and paste it, see if it will change your view.
The big tax case is irrelevant …….what planet are these muppets wired too ??
Surely someone should stand up and say what we all know…..the club is no more
Nothing & Nobody is bringing them back in the same guise
Now it’s simply about trying to put some sort of patched up mob on the park and
convince the easily deluded they are still the same……new name, new badge, new players, no money, no Europe, no history…yeah they might still fall for it…serve them right too.
Liked the one the other day and apologies don’t know who posted it but it went something like this.
If your dog dies.
You put wheels on its feet.
Take it for a walk round the town.
It’s still feckin deid!!!
ElDiegoBhoy on 11 May, 2012 at 20:23 said:
googybhoy
Mark Hately said the huns fielding an under 18 side next season would be like, ermmmmm, strange LOL.
They do not really see it do they.
The BTT and double contracts to come.
even the SFA cannot save them.
EBTs to Greig, Ogilvie, Smith, McCoist, ……………and all the players…….
Strikes me that Salmond etc have seen the results of HMRC and hence their silence,
Good night Admin FC
Paul67,
I understand that there are people posting on here who don’t have a CQN badge.
Why is this allowed?
Anyways lets enjoy, whats happening to them just now.Hopefully we can get a statement next week of liquidation….
And also it may well be too late for a newco now aswell? am I correct in saying that??
It’s worth reading that report, they have one helluva sh1tstorm coming when Nimmo-Smith draps his cracker! Then there’s the wee tax case, the paye, NI and the VAT. It’s a wee bit like going to the Dr with a sore back and hearing the snap of the rubber glove.
then there’s the big tax case.
then there’s the ‘clip art’ invoices
then there’s the ‘transfers’
and to put the tin lid on it, there’s a pie bill!
Get your new CQN badge sooooooooooooooooon!!!!!!!!!
Matt Slater from BBC on twitter – interesting reading. read from bottom up……
Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
For what it’s worth, I still think TBK/BK is #RFC’s best hope of getting out of this, but that offer won’t get a CVA through
3m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
They’re going to knock Rapid Vienna! @MikeMcKenna_ Apparently the total non-Scot football debt is £2.7m, they’re owed £3.8 tho
View conversation
4m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
Didn’t mean to be rude @richymills it’s priceless to the fans, worthless to developers
View conversation
5m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
Admins have it done as £6-4m @Johnniebhoy they reckon it looks like a “posh David Lloyd leisure centre”!!!!!
View conversation
7m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
…the big names who agreed CUTS (defo not deferrals) can go for £2m, Naismith will be first. That’s all for now #RFC
Expand
8m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
No idea where this is going next but I’m told Walter Smith & Ally McCoist aren’t happy with TBK/BK antics & players want to leave…
Expand
10m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
Where does this leave #RFC? It’s between Green’s gang (interesting names I can’t quite prove yet) & an even more shadowy UK group
Expand
12m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
All in all, TBK/BK was lowest bid & worse than admins think can be raised from liquidation (Ibrox worthless, Murray Park £4m)
Expand
13m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
..& then £500k to CW for his shares. There was some mention of £ for non Scot clubs (Arsenal, Chelsea et al) but no clarity.
Expand
15m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
..you then had £1m going to Scots football creditors (Hearts, £900k) but admins say that will be subtracted from SPL prize money….
Expand
16m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
…they would be £500K for reaching group stages, £1m for QFs over next 2 yrs, honestly, I’m not making this up…..
Expand
17m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
Rest of TBK/BK bid included £3.8m #RFC are due from transfers (mainly Jelavic) & £3m in Champs League-related bonus payments (!)
Expand
18m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
We heard Kennedy & Murray’s side of it but I’m told their bid was worth only £2m in cash, the lowest of 4 on table (I know!)….
Expand
20m Matt Slater@mattslaterbbc
Lots of #RFC questions, I’ll answer a few now before I go home & then more later. In short, the gloves are off between TBK/BK & D&P
Expand Reply
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1h
I think it’s fair to say Brian Kennedy and D & P don”t see eye to eye.
leebozbhoy on 11 May, 2012 at 20:26 said:
Ray sing-carr.
Dont drink too much of that red vino. Safe journey and enjoy sunday. What a party day for the celtic family. Hope your mates take you for a beer to the market inn. Best pint of tennents in the auld toon. Will have a couple on sat afternoon before hou get here.
Have a fabulous celebratory weekend in the hoops.
hh lbb
===================================================
Cheers for that mate. Will do!! Been looking forward to this for weeks. Last match we made it up to was 48 hours before the Orcs went into administration. Hoping that this trip will be 48 hours before the button gets pressed on their liquidation!!
HH
ahhhh, the fabled CQN badge, a wee green and gold thing of beauty.
What a (Liberty) capital idea!
RRC wherever you are, can we not have a quiz all about D&P and this circus.
Make it a brammer but save it up for when the big hoose closes.
EG
How many deadlines did D&P have?
Name all the real bidders?
Name all the pretend bidders?
How many lies have Laurel & Hardy told?
What is a CVA?
What’s a floating charge?
Off for a wee break tomorrow. Longboat Key, FLA.
Grandkids, son, D.in.law and Mrs RWE.
Beach time but not Miller time.
PC coming with me for game on Sunday.
HH
67
St Rangers??
I think that’s an oxymoron!! :-)
MICK11 this is the post that persuaded me to continue going to Celtic Park whether there is a Hun team in the SPL or not. It’s worth reading.
I hope BRTH doesn’t mind the re-posting.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 9 May, 2012 at 10:19 said:
Good Morning.
On a freezing cold winter’s night, a young schoolteacher stood in the taxi queue in Gordon Street Glasgow close to the entrance of the Central Hotel.
A few yards down the road, a car drew up and man got out out of the rear of the vehicle, pulled his coat around him and walked straight through the revolving doors into the warmth of the Central Hotel. The schoolteacher was about to turn his attention elsewhere, when out of the corner of his eye he saw the same man come straight back out of the hotel door and start to make a bee line towards him. Despite the cold, he suddenly felt trickles of sweat roll down his back, especially when the man stopped right in front of him.
” You’re the guy from the BBC?” said the man
” Yes”
” Well tell your bosses that they had better start getting their Cameras to Celtic park, to cover the goals- because we are going to score barrel loads. Tell them to send a good Cameraman– Eddie McConnell— and tell them if they don’t, all the good stuff will go to the “sportsjacket”!”
And on that note, Jock Stein turned on his heel and re-entered the Central Hotel leaving a young Archie McPherson freezing and sweating in Gordon Street.
At the time of this meeting, Stein’s Celtic had won precisely nothing.
In the ’60′s BBC Scotland sport was run by Peter Thompson and Roy Small, and it would be fair to say that both men were vehemently anti Celtic– I will go no further.
TV Coverage of Celtic games by the BBC would often miss any goals and just show pictures of the ground suddenly celebrating. Stein wanted to change that. He wanted people to see his Celtic and what they could do. He knew there was no reason for poor coverage and he could even name the requisite cameraman- Eddie McConnell.
It is to Archie McPherson’s eternal credit that he argued with Thompson and Small that Celtic should get better coverage, and it is to his even greater credit that when Stein effectively banned the BBC from Celtic Park a short time later, McPherson walked up Kerrydale Street to see the Celtic manager on his own initiative and in his own time to see if there was anyway that this impasse could be broken. McPherson sensed that Celtic would be a story under this man and that BBC Scotland were set to miss it.
When he got to meet the Celtic Manager, Stein asked him a number of questions one of which was: ” What have you ( the BBC ) ever done for these people?”.
And it is with that one question that I will end that particular story.
” What have you ( The BBC ) ever done for these people?”.
My question this morning is– who was Stein referring to when he said “These people”?
At the time he was employed as Manager by Celtic Football and Athletic Club Ltd.
Do you think he meant the shareholders? The Kelly’s. The White’s , The Grants and so on?
Not a chance!
He didn’t mean the players — although they could be included in the group that he did mean.
No he meant the fans, the supporters, the people who came through the gates — the very soul and lifeblood of Celtic. “Without fans who pay at the turnstile, football is nothing. Sometimes we are inclined to forget that. The only chance of bringing them into stadiums is if they are entertained by what happens on the football field.”
However, Stein saw even further and beyond the fans of his own club. He made it plain that he wanted the neutral to want Celtic to win, to play in a certain way which forced the neutral to remember Celtic, how they played football, and effectively what they stood for. Stein saw beyond Scotland, and saw the good ship Celtic sail on a sea which knew no horizons.
Celtic is a club first and foremost… that happens to play football, amongst other things. From its very outset it had a social element, bringing the people of the East end and beyond together in a common purpose. Together they built a stadium, raised money, did charitable works with that money, organised themselves, socialised together, worked together, laughed together, cried together, mourned together and just were simply” together”. A community, a family of friends, neighbours and complete and utter strangers.
Stein, for all his influence was in charge of the football team, just as Neil Lennon is today. Other people– other “These People” were and are in charge of other aspects of the club– media, charity, business and so on. Today, Celtic is a huge organisation– built around a football team but in no way limited to the activities of that team. Walfrid’s vision was not to create just a football team– but to create a football team for a far wider social purpose. A good purpose, which would hopefully make the lives of “These People” all the better, whether that be as a result of Penny Dinners, a social coming together, watching or even playing for the football team or whatever.
Accordingly when I pay for my season tickets each year, in my eyes that is me paying my annual subscription to the club. In return I get the benefit of seat in the stand for each home game…. among other things.
When you buy a share in a company, you only pay for the share once and in normal circumstances you legally become part owner of the company and hopefully get a return on your investment. Such normal commercial sense doesn’t work that way with Celtic.. or many other football clubs. Just as the White’s, Kelly’s, Grants and so on were not “These People” to Stein, so are the shareholders and Directors of Celtic PLC not “These people” in my eyes.
Yes they are part of “These People” but they do not own Celtic Football Club in my eyes just because they have a few shares in Celtic PLC. Legally they are the owners of the “club” in terms of the rules and laws– but no limited company or any other individual can ever claim true ownership of the Celtic dream– my Celtic Dream, your Celtic dream, the guy down the road’s Celtic dream, Walfrid’s Celtic dream, Big Jock’s Celtic dream or whoever. That part of the Celtic parcel is never for sale, for rent, to be mortgaged or anything else.
And so it follows that my yearly investment in things Celtic, the Club that is Celtic, the ethos that is Celtic, is never going to be influenced by the incompetence ( financial or otherwise ) of say the chairman of Kilmarnock FC or anyone else.
Scottish Football, as governed by the SFA, is the forum in which the Celtic Football team is forced to play by dint of sheer Geography and locale. The SFA can be run badly or well. It can be honest or corrupt. It can be competent or incompetent. It can be whatever it chooses to be but it does not have the ability to dictate or sway my choice of following and participating in my club and my vision for my club.
I have never met Peter Lawell, Neil Lennon, Dermot Desmond or any other Celtic Director. I would not agree with all of the business decisions of any of them- or of anyone else for that matter- as I am an individual with my own views and beliefs on every subject. However part of a corporate or a community movement is that your own individual view sometimes has to make way for the majority. Equally, in any corporate or community project you have to delegate certain functions to others and trust in their judgement. That does not prevent you from airing your views or making your voice heard.
Do I trust Messrs Lawell, Lennon and Desmond– yes I do. Again I will say that I would do things differently to them– for example £50 for a team strip is ridiculous as is the price of the corporate seats at Celtic park– but overall I trust their custodianship of part of “My Club”. Desmond’s investment in Celtic whilst significant in local money terms is but a patch on his own personal wealth and investment powers. He could buy and sell Rangers without missing the money should he so choose, but he invested in Celtic the club not in a football team that makes money and shows a regular return of the highest order, If that were his level of interest he would have invested the same amount of money elsewhere and in another industry altogether where he would have earned more quicker.
A few months ago I met with the new CEO of the charities division at Celtic Park and he told me of the clubs plans in that area. They are different to what has happened before. Radical in certain ways but at the same time show a direct link to the basic Ideas of the founding fathers of the club. They were exciting… and sounded like good fun too, ticking all the right boxes for me personally.
So, on this debate about season tickets- Celtic will be getting their annual subscription frorm me. I will not pay a penny to other clubs unless the football league is run properly. I will not support the SFA if I view their administration to be improper and will boycott their competitions and teams. I will invest money in other pursuits and let them know if necessary. I will protest , walk away and publicly damn football as it is run in this country but I will not deprive my club of their subs. That does not mean to say that I will not seek to hold the PLC board to account, nor does it mean that I will automatically accept and use the season tickets themselves. Long ago, I sent Season Tickets back to Jack McGinn ( a long term friend of my father’s ) in protest at certain things which I thought were not being dealt with properly by the club. If protest is needed I will protest to whatever organisation or individual needs to be addressed and I will try and make sure that my point of view is heard.
Next week, I am off to Barcelona with some pals. I will have in my bag a newly bought scarf or T shirt or something Celtic to give to a waiter or waitress or someone I meet. I will watch the Champions League final in Catalonia and probably I will be wearing something that is green and white and which lets the neutral know I am a Celtic man. Hopefully I will play a wee part in creating a Catalonian Celtic fan– whether he or she be a follower of Barcelona FC, Espanyol or not a football fan at all.
The good ship Celtic sails on a sea that knows no Horizons and its course will not be dictated by the idiocy of Scottish Football Administration, The impecuniousness of other clubs, nor by a vote by the self interested blazer types behind closed doors.
Celtic Football Club was built from the very ground up by “These people”.
I am and always will be one of them— Football or No Football, Rangers or no Rangers, Season Ticket or no Season Ticket.
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if we think superscoreboard is bad, try real radio, johnstone, rough ;and maquire try it.
Doc is Neil Lennon on 11 May, 2012 at 20:13 said:
Doc ,you can be one of the gang,on receipt
of said badge.:O)
Best comment I have heard from the media so far was Roddy Forsyth in the last Derby match saying, ‘It will be hard to have to go to Elgin and Peterhead to commentate on Rangers next year,’
I am putting together a consortium to buy a CQN badge. The consortium will be called ‘The Bloke Knights’ and we will aim for ‘preferred bidder’ status and be the bestest bidderers around.
Art of War, thanks for your supportive email the other night.
Macjay 1, again thanks for supportive comments. Hope your sister is doing good.
Margaret McGill, thanks so much for your email.
HH
“clip art” invoices, is this true? if true = different boys in blue, fraud
I reckon if they get relegated or start up in a lower division with a youth squad or with another teams license in the hope they can get the death star back eventually and rename , Celtic should a pick a team which is in the same division and loan them enough “squad” players to make them strong enough to win that league and prevent them being promoted.
No sympathy , no mercy .
Cannae wait for Sunday
Bye bye Rangers.
HH
dont forget you can select the tracks you want played…
wee box on right hand side…
http://www.hailhailradio.com/index.html
I love the media’s position regarding the boredom of the Celtic fans if the huns are relegated.How many will turn up to watch Celtic v St Mirren or Celtic V Motherwell?I would wager a lot more than will turn up to see Rangers v Arbroath or Rangers v Elgin.
The press conference with Paul Murray and Kennedy is utterly bizarre.
I think I might call a PC tomorrow outlining that I have withdrawm my £1500 bid for a second hand Aston Martin DB9. I will express my dismay and disbelief that the car dealer found my bid to be unacceptable.
I will outline my intended uses for the car (driving to work, picking up beautiful woman etc) and make thinly veiled threats to the dealer that they will have “blood on their hands” if they sell to a careless driver or even worse a “collector” who simply wishes to keep it in a garage all year round.
By the way, Brian Kennedy apparently doesn’t like publicity. Yet he calls a press conference and is queueing up to do interviews with Skysports News to talk about how he is NOT going to buy Rangers. What a strange little man he is.
A Hibs supporter as a boy, who lives in England and is more of a Rugby fan who is losing sleep at the thought of “The Rangers” liquidating after being involved in a massive tax scam.
I can only assume he is an ego maniac of the David Murray variety who wants a wee bit of free publicity and ego massaging. The look on his face when Jim Whyte fawns over his £600m wealth smacks of a little boy who can’t wait to impress his mates at the Country Club this weekend.
“Ah, excuse me chaps. Bloody Skysports News on the blower again. Wanting another interview. Hope they don’t keep going on about the £600m again!”
Not being a season ticket holder, I respect the differing positions adopted re the renewals.
My only hope is that the matter is resolved satisfactorily to all, enabling Neil and Peter to proceed with any signings they hope to make.
Obviously, the ST uptake will reflect on their budget.
voguepunter on 11 May, 2012 at 20:37 said:
Thank you, I shall refrain from posting until I have met the required entry qualifications;-)
Would I be allowed to lurk meantime?
Anybody seen mission impossible – ghost protocol ?
Just wondering if it’s any good?
As the end of an incredulous season nears
who would have thought we would still be on tenderhooks
as to the final outcome.
I hope Paul 67 compiles a book of the best and worst posts
from this season.
It will make fascinating reading.
celticrollercoaster says In Neil we trust on 11 May, 2012 at 20:34 said:
Get your new CQN badge sooooooooooooooooon!!!!!!!!!
I want one……..a new issue would make a load of money for charity,
stupid huns
Doc is Neil Lennon on 11 May, 2012 at 20:36 said:
Stripped of extraneous matter that post boils down to:
‘Do I trust Messrs Lawell, Lennon and Desmond– yes I do.’
Jings Crivvens etc., this saga is getting more surreal by the day – is swally losing it?
News Update from NASA:
Space Unit Super Ally has just left another planet and is now leaving the outer reaches of the solar system.
The public should not be alarmed that Super Ally’s messages appear to be approximately one month behind current events on Earth; this is due to quantum anomalies which have increased the optimal message time from 10 hours to 30 days.
Last message from Super Ally is faint, and broken: “Absholutely….. be honesht with you here… who are you?…. demand….. transhparen…”
That is all