I was widely predicting 3-0 last night so the result didn’t come as a disappointment. Bayern could have punished us (or pretty much any team in Europe) by more, while we could have scored a deserved consolation in the second half.
It is seldom a manager will make three changes which improve the team, but Brendan Rodgers did just that last night. Tom Rogic grabbed the stage like no other Celtic player when he replaced Stuart Armstrong. Celtic’s game plan left Leigh Griffiths isolated against towering defenders. This was never a fair fight, but plays to Moussa Dembele’s strengths. The French youth international looked back to his pre-injury best.
Patrick Roberts is our most accomplished player at unlocking packed defences, but that was never on the agenda in Munich. Instead, he most often took possession acres from goal, forcing him to dart into space before being blocked by the weight of red jerseys.
The game was more suited to James Forrest, who needs space in front of him to be at his best. The winger regularly stressed the Bayern defence and created chances.
Bayern clearly identified Cristian Gamboa as Celtic’s potential weak spot. Cristian was isolated repeatedly but used his pace and agility to put in a performance few of us expected.
When was the last time we lost three cross/header combination goals? Bayern are a tall team. Celtic played with two small(er) full backs, where they would otherwise play the ubiquitous Mikel Lustig at right. A lack of height perhaps contributed to Bayern’s third, an inexcusable free header at a set piece, but we switched off at the loss of the first two goals.
We didn’t execute our normal (simple) passing game during the first half. Lots of things can contribute to players not passing the ball, rushing their passes, or, more crucially, not making themselves available for a pass.
The most obvious contributory factor was the ability of the opposition, but the problem was not as superficial as this. We didn’t pass well during the opening period, even without Bayern pressing particularly high.
Football is a game of 1000 small decisions, where to move on the field being the most common decision. Repeatedly last night I couldn’t see good options for an easy pass for the Celtic player in possession. For Celtic to play their natural game there needs to be a close proximity between players when we are in possession.
Last night we stretched the game. Sinclair, Armstrong and Brown were too far forward, often by as little as 10 yards.
Special mention to Craig Gordon, who having picked the ball out of his net three times, kept the score from reaching the epic proportions that Arsenal recently endured at the Allianz Arena.
Bayern will be confident ahead of the game at Celtic Park in two weeks, but Celtic know they can play better. I’m sure when Brendan Rodgers looks at the Champions League table, he will concede nothing yet.
——————
Celtic Fans in Allianz Arena pic.twitter.com/EGbQbkWt6G
— Celtic Videos (@CelticVideo) October 19, 2017
OUR SECOND CQN PODCAST this week, featuring interviews with ex-Celts Alan Stubbs and Chris Sutton, previewing the big games this week against Bayern Munich and Hibs at Hampden on Saturday.
Stubbs gives an insight into Liam Henderson as a player and talks about where his career should go from here.
Speaking on behalf of BT Sport, Alan Stubbs also spoke about his regret at leaving Hibs, and looks ahead to the League Cup semi-final between two of his former clubs.
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The CL is the same as the EPL, only about 3 or 4 teams can win it, the rest are happy to be there and take the money.
Paul 67,
A fair analysis. However I cannot agree that we shouldn’t be disappointed with a 0-3 defeat. The footballing Gods were kind to us but we didn’t learn.
Why do we fail to do the basics correctly against high quality teams ? I’m sure the answer is more in the mind rather than physical attributes.
Totally agree about Craig Gordon. Cannot understand the over the top criticism of him. His distribution is subject to players making themselves available and demonstrating spatial awareness in doing so.
It cannot be denied that it was a timid performance and too many did not play to the best of their ability. Finance plays a part of course, but I am glad that you alluded to the 10 goal hammering that Arsenal got. Financial equality , but nevertheless a humiliating aggregate score.
I reiterate, imo domestic football cannot give us finance, romance and enhancement of our global status, subsequently Our aspirations must lie in competing with the best. We must train our players to think as fast, run as fast and install a confidence so that we never feel inferior to anybody.
We may not have financial equality , but we have training facilities equality.
However we are still in the game and to any lurking Huns who do not appreciate the financial hand out we give them , I unashamedly borrow a phrase from the Facing Book: –
” Disappointment is temporary, liquidation is permanent ”
HH to all.
BIG JIMMY
I have a similar tale.
After my usual Friday night bevvy session I got invited to a party, not far from where I lived, in Alexandra Parade.
Can’t remember getting home.
Woke up at 3:45pm with a sore head!
Went to the loo and turned on the tranny to discover to my horror that Thistle were beating us 4-0 at half time in the league cup final.
Funny, I remember thinking we could turn that around in the second half!
Anyway I was doing a reading next morning at Our Lady of Good Counsel in Dennistoun and my fellow reader that day was Dennis McQuade.
He’d got a goal in that final and showed his medal to me while sitting in the front pew.
He was a lovely guy and I didn’t, eventually, mind that his team had won the cup at our expense.
Ronnie Glavin was also a mate of mine at the time.
Not so happy with him for his treatment of Jinky during that match but that is another story.
“I see niven on bended knee as Billy McPhail makes it number 3, Willie Fernie’s headed heaven he has made it number 7”.
It was a typical sunny mid October day as I ventured down tae the Milburn Park in Alexandria tae watch the local junior side.
I was at that age where unless my da, who like a lot of men then thought he had a good job as he worked 2 nights late Saturday morning and Sunday, or an oulder relative took me tae Glasgow, watching Celtic was out and so it was Boagheid and the Milburn on alternating weeks. The former were a pretty good side back then and got tae the quarters of the SC, I met Big Hooky aka John McPhail that day he was “reporting” for the Record.
I had been tae the semis 3 weeks earlier in what was a true Glasgow derby against Clyde. Make no mistake the Bully Wee were a very good team then and a few months later would knock us out of the SC at Parkheid, a trophy they would win that season. They also had several internationalists in their side including 2 players, future Celtic Combined Reserve Coach Harry Haddock and George Herd who would turn out against the auld enemy at the end of that season as well as Archie Robertson the scorer of the last minute equaliser 2 years earlier in the SC Final and Tommy Ring who would score the winner in the replay, the latter incidentally fae a rabid Celtic family would do a Harry Hood on us and turn us down only this time for Everton as opposed tae Sunderland where he would team up with the Wee Barra (Bobby Collins).
Oh and there was also Dubliner Albert Murphy at right back whose greatest claim tae fame was getting sent off twice against deidco, both times for fighting and in one instance had tae be escorted by Glasgow’s finest from the field, should be a statue erected tae him in his home town.
In our side was a future Lisbon Lion on the left wing and young Eric Smith, on leave from the army lol, on the right replacing out of favour Smiler (Neilly Mochan) and the injured Charles Patrick respectively, the rest of the team would make history a couple of weeks later. We had raced intae a 2 goal lead before Clyde pegged us back with a goal just on the half time whistle and the other just after the start of the second half only for us tae restore that lead within 15 minutes.
An excited wee bhoy made his way back tae the Bonnie Banks burstin tae tell his school pals that he had been tae a big game at hades, not only that he had kicked the ball tae Willie Fernie when it went out for a shy, nearly broke his toe tae.
As I ran up the lobby my da was sitting in his chair singing a song tae the tune of a Pat Boone hit at the time “on a day like today we passed the time away watching Celtic from the stand, oh how we laughed and we cried when Clyde equalised watching Celtic from the stand”, meanwhile I’m shouting “can I go tae the final, can I go tae the final” tae be met by the dreaded “we’ll see”, which usually meant naw.
And then the big day arrived although we didnae know how big it would be, there was nae chance I was getting tae this game, in fact neither did my older brother or an even older cousin, as my da would say at the time he had enough trouble looking after himself. So off my da went with my mother’s older brother much tae the disdain of my sibling who stormed out of the house in a cream puff.
The Super Sons were away at Glebe Park that day so it was down tae the Millburn with my cousin, we were standing at the Emmett Park End when I noticed some “big boys” behind me listening tae a portable radio, this was before the days of the tranny, it was huge, what would in later years be described as a “ghetto blaster”, must have had a car battery in it tae keep it running.
This was during the time when the Home Internationals were played during the season culminating with the Scotland/England fixture near the end; in typical SFA fashion if the game was at home the corresponding League fixtures were postponed which allowed the game to be broadcast, while if it was at Wembley the fixtures were played with teams having 2 or more players involved allowed to request a postponement of their games. This was why no games at Wembley were televised back then, we can be thankful the 9-3 wisnae shown but not so the 3-2 victory over the reigning World Champions.
Anyway that day Wales were at home to England and the BBC was broadcasting the 2nd half live on radio. For some reason BBC Home Service (Scotland) could only transmit a local game at around 4:10 pm so the lads behind me were listening tae the international.
England were 2 up and cruising when the radio owner flicked it over tae the LC Final just in time for bully simpson tae pull one back, 3-1. 10 minutes later and big Teazy Weazy aka Billy McPhail adds a 4th, awe FFS back tae Ninian Park just as Tom Finney scores a 3rd, 2 minutes later and the first 100 pound player in the UK Johnny Haynes who would later be ko’d by a former Celt who missed our game that day due tae his temperament makes it 4-0.
Sadly though by the time England face Scotland in the final home international they had lost 3 players who played that day, Roger Byrne, Duncan Edwards and Tommy Taylor.
Now this was during a time when the deidco supporters were quintessentially Scottish and hated the outlanders with a passion so we’re back in Glasgow again.
Oh dear and as he does Neilly makes it 5, what does a poor hun do and rather than toss his radio in the nearby River Leven keeps turning it off and on, meanwhile a wee St Mary’s bhoy is dancing all over the ash and railway sleeper terracing while a Main Street and Vale Academy FP whose World Champion grampa starred at the ground I was in was being humiliated 24 mile up the road. We’re no done yet as Billy and the Juggler aka Willie Fernie make it “oh hampden in the sun”.
On reflection what makes this all the more memorable is that was a hun team, heavily favoured, with a new centre half we had coveted as a replacement for the now ailing Jock, containing the 2 full backs who 3 ½ year later big Frank would be crucified between, hard man bette davis and the biggest thug in blue in my lifetime sammy (the clug) baird.
At the end of the game I saw my mother waiting to take me up the road, I ran tae her shouting “Celtic won 7-1, Celtic won 7-1” repeatedly, she just smiled and years later said she thought that they big Vale Academy boys were just winding me up.
That night was the first time I saw my da slightly inebriated, we sat there waiting for Sportsreel and after the first half was shown I was sure he was going tae throw the tele intae the Haldane burn as torn faced blue peter thompson told us that due tae technical difficulties they were unable tae show the 2nd half.
That season that had started off so brightly for deidco ended with the jambos champions, 13 points and a 63 goal difference ahead of them. The Bully Wee Clyde won the SC beating the Hibbees in the final who had surprisingly disposed of their high flying rivals away 4-3 in the 3rd round and of course we retained the LC with a record UK cup final win that has never been broken.
As a wee bhoy I used tae listen tae my da talking about the Empire Exhibition team, he recited like a litany. By the end of that weekend Beattie Donnelly Fallon; Fernie Evans Peacock; Tully Collins McPhail Wilson and Mochan; were rolling off my tongue.
European, Coronation and Empire Exhibition Cups will come and go but this team IMHO is the greatest that ever played for us, nothing will ever beat the 7-1 game, and “seven past niven sounds a lot better than nine past Haffey.
Oh aye and as for Scotland, gubbed 4-0 at home by their deadly rivals with a goal scored by a 20 year old Munich survivor while the home side gave 31 year old Jim Forrest of Motherwell, who would be at Stenhousemuir within 2 years, his only cap, quelle surprise.
It’s quoted on here about the Huns that it is the hope that will kill them.
With us it’s the hope that keeps us going.
This is a 4 year building process – see where we are after that.
‘Walk on with hope in your heart and you’ll never walk alone’
Cowiebhoy- we have to be realistic against the top teams, 4-5-1, double up in the FB areas.Qarabag got a draw against Atletico Madrid, if you set up to try and make it as hard as you can, you might have a chance.Disagree with P67 re Rogic, didn’t look interested to me.
Not sure if the stats have been put up already but I was sick of the media coverage down south about how we got a bit of a doing, can we compete etc. Disappointed with last nights result but to get some context of how good they actually are I had a look at their UCL form in the group stages over the previous years.
Bayern home form UCL
2013-14
CSKA Moskva 3-0
Plzen 5-0
Man City 2-3
F10 A3
2014-15
Man City 1-0
Roma 2-0
CSKA Moskva 3-0
F6 A0
2015-16 Home games
Dinamo Zagreb 5-0
Arsenal 5-1
Olympiacos 4-0
F14 A1
2016-17
Rostov 5-0
PSV 4-1
Atletico 1-0
F10 A1
So all in all they scored 40 goals and only let in 5 so we were not the only ones to be on the end of a “hiding”
los_bhoy
Plenty of fair comments and observations across the board but I disagree with those who think regardless of what we do tactically, we are going to get pumped by the “big rich teams”.
If you accept your limitations and set up accordingly you always have a puncher’s chance. Look at how Iceland are performing on the international stage when they face vastly superior teams, how Leicester performed in the EPL-winning year, how Hibs took the game to us a couple of weeks ago . . . a mix of tactics, discipline and belief can and often do achieve unexpected results.
Our passing and ball retention was awful against PSG and likewise against Anderlecht until the first goal. Last night more of the same. It is beyond parody how often our players give the ball away when under no real pressure. Playing against better teams seems to really effect their self-belief which runs contrary to what normally happens when small teams play big/better/richer teams in domestic cup competitions. In those cases players generally show amazing team spirit, commitment and belief that maybe they’ll get lucky if they fight for everything and defend as if their lives depended on it.
For those saying stay with the same tactics, get pumped and learn from it – what if finiishing 2nd or 3rd, 3rd or 4th came down to goal difference?
Hi Paul67,
As something came up last minute, I didn’t get to see the match yesterday, glad to see the subs made a difference and Dembele was looking good. If we are still in Europe after Christmas, it is players of his ilk that will determine our fortunes.
I’m at a total loss at folk that comment on…
– Our summer transfers
– Our personnel/tactics
Regarding playing Europe’s top teams.
It may be worth pointing out our priorities…
Winning the Scottish League
Qualifying for Europe
Then
Qualification for the UCL
Then the nice to haves
The Scottish Cups
And European Football after Christmas.
Anything else is icing… or as we currently sit, pie in the sky.
So why should we change our transfer policy, our personnel and our tactics for the pie in the sky?!
BR and his team are delivering on our priorities and then some.
Don’t get me wrong, I love it when we play the elite in Europe and of course we should have, and I think we do have, a medium & long term strategy to narrow the gap in performance between us & them. But the reality of it is these matches are a bagatelle.
Hail Hail
TONTINE TIM @ 1.45.
Pat Boone-Love Letters.
Fortunately he wasn’t allowed in my house but unfortunately Leroy Van Dyke was.I therefore got to hear his version and my mother (RIP) signing it while she did the ironing..
SLOLEYBHOY
From previous. Tickets are yours. Paul should have my e mail address for contact
How many goals would Leigh Griffiths score in a Motherwell team ?
How many goals woud Louis Moult score in a Celtic team ?
Would Jose Morinho have won 4 European trophies if he hadn’t parked the buses ?
Will Brendan Rodgers be an eternal CL work in progress manager ?
Is Brendan Rodgers an idealist who looks good in a league with no competition ?
When will Uefa close Celtic Park for CL games after the recent fan invasion ?
Who’ll empty Celtic Park first, Uefa ?, or apathy ?
Later.
Lurking Hun alert.
Liquidation is indeed permanent.
TONTINE TIM on 19TH OCTOBER 2017 1:45 PM
……………………….
Great Post mate.
HH
ROB MCLEAN on 19TH OCTOBER 2017 2:28 PM
…………………………..
I heard that you had a great time at yer Maws wedding !
Eejit !
Special mention to Craig Gordon, who having picked the ball out of his net three times, kept the score from reaching the epic proportions that Arsenal recently endured at the Allianz Arena.
Paul I have to disagree with the above CG was abysmal IMO his kick outs were dreadful his positioning at corners was awful and his use of the ball when our full backs were in acres of space was useless for me the defence has no confidence in him and it shows.
Deniabhoy- great post
Rob Mclean on 19th October 2017 2:28 pm
When will Uefa close Celtic Park for CL games after the recent fan invasion ?
===========================
‘CL’?
You mean, ‘Champions League’ ?
CHAMPIONS League.
Ye ragin’, aye?
ROB MCLEAN
Oh look Bungle’s found his crayon’s again and today children he’s pretending to be someone else.
Can you guess who he is yet??
THETIMREAPER on 19TH OCTOBER 2017 1:02 PM
Like PHILBHOY, I agree 100%.
We are learning from some of the best players in the world in this ECL group. There were, I think, 5 World Cup winners against us last night. They play for the same club week in, week out and also play together in their national team.
In Coman they have a kid who I reckon will go on the be the best of his generation. Super-fast, super-skilful and very direct. Gamboa is a quick defender but looked like he was towing a caravan last night! Lustig would have been destroyed as well and Ralston (being impetuous) may very well been off early!
If we go and park the bus on these occasions we may get a few 1-0 defeats but will not develop in the way that the manager (and the support) want us to. We need to learn how to pass and play at this level, not just repel wave after wave of attack with nothing going forward.
IMHO, we are a good deal better than we were last season and if we continue to improve year on year we will begin to close the gap. Don’t see us winning it again under the current set of regulations and finances but I do believe we can become competitive and look towards last 16 or 8 qualification every now and then and a decent run in the Europa League. That would be our level I think.
KTF
Defensively, we are weak in the air. Not just in last night’s game, but in general. Celtic may not be able to challenge the top European teams but should not be pushovers in any area.
If Bayern hadn’t scored the soft goals they did last night, they may have raised their game to score better ones. I would have been happier if we had at least forced them to do that.
STARRY PLOUGH on 19TH OCTOBER 2017 2:39 PM
ROB MCLEAN
…………………
BORE MCLAN ?….Such a pity Mclean is not spelt with “K” as BORE MKLAN is much more appropriate….Whit a feckin CHUMP !
GLENDALYSTONSILS
We have defenders who could win a header but the problem was who to mark as the wide guys had plenty targets to aim for.
They constantly made angled runs to the inside and when our fullbacks narrowed to mark they quickly switched to wide man in acres of space who had time to pick targets to cross to.
A better set up would have had us chase less and forced them to work harder.
Position and patience is vital at this level and unfortunately we had neither.
Credit to Bayern is also due as they had an excellent game plan.
Tontine, Philbhoy,
For the younger generation a tranny has a totally different meaning…
Also last night credit is due to Heynkes.
His last stint at Bayern had them Champions league winners and looking like they would be the blue print and dominate football with his brand of power and pace.
Bayern made a huge mistake in appointing Pep who altered their playing style and reduced them to a European also ran as many teams had learned to nullify his passing game.
Last night Bayern looked closer to that all conquering team and i think have the potential to reach the final if he can refine the team and system.
A fantastically astute coach.
TONTINE TIM @ 1.45.
Pat Boone-Love Letters.
*he made his name covering sanitised versions of black songs i.e. Fats Domino, Little Richard etc as the white radio stations wouldn’t play theirs. His versions of Tutti Frutti and Long Tall Sally are sacrilegious.
Although the first record I ever bought was “Speedy Gonzalez” for my new Dansette record player I was a huge fan of Little Richard and coaxed my mother to take me, much to her disdain, to see “The Girl Can’t Help It” as LR had 3 songs in it as well as songs by Fats, Gene Vincent and Eddie Cochran.
Whilst Craig Gordon was excellent at shot stopping last night, his wee dinks to Kieran Tierney constantly put us under pressure.
I know Brendan wants us to pass out from the back but once it is seen to not work , can we not change it?
Having a belief in how u want to play is one thing but sometimes when it doesn’t work you have to be a bit pragmatic.
Munich had us sussed early and swarmed around us , the wee dink pass out from the keeper didn’t work, but we persevered.
Also, I’m not one to say I told u so but I advocated Dembele instead of The Griff yesterday . I think that when Moussa came on we all could see the difference.
Please take this as just a mild rebuke Brendan
Still love u
HH
TONTINE TIM
I always thought that Davis was more of a brute than Baird but for me neither was in the same League as the quintessentially brutish Captain Cutlass .
Guess the bookies got the odds right last night so we should not be suprised with the score. Poor defending, imho, caused the goals but BM have been a helluva good team for years. We have chopped and changed at the back with injuries to our preferred CBs and people are wanting us to sign more defenders. Does big bucks insure against injuries? Between 2013 /2015 Lustig played 21 league games in 2 seasons. Next 2 seasons he is running around 60. Injuries are part and partial of football but our sport scientists team should be working on that.
Bayern played as a team, look at how they all moved out after corner when Lustig won the ball and Broonie hit the post. We had around 6 players offside as Bayern moved out enmass. We need to work as team and make sure our 10 yard pass finds our men
GER57 on 19TH OCTOBER 2017 1:04 PM
…………………..
Sorry mate but who is Peter Hain ?
HH
SOUTH OF TUNIS on 19TH OCTOBER 2017 3:24 PM
TONTINE TIM
I always thought that Davis was more of a brute than Baird but for me neither was in the same League as the quintessentially brutish Captain Cutlass
*who I have often wrote about. bette davis was a brute right enough but baird when with Stirling Albion had his team play in a change tangerine strip when playing us. ,
Tontine.
Pat Boone was ordered to record Tutti Frutti as Little Richards & Fats would not be played on certain stations. He said that himself and Dion were ordered to record these rock songs if they wanted a career
Rob McLean,
That you off out
Bayern recent CL history
2013 Won
2014 Semi Real
2015 Semi Barca
2016 Semi Athletico
2017 Qtr Real
Pretty comparable with ours
: > )
9 European games this season (over a 3 month period), 8 different different Central Defence starting combos. Until we have consistent selection in central defence, domestically as well as in Europe, we will be liable to hammerings in Europe against the big boys. Eventually it’ll also be one of causes for the end of our unbeaten run domestically. Our first choice central defensive partnership have played together twice this season, both games with our first pick full backs also playing. Two clean sheets away from home in wins at Ibrox and in Brussels. Our defenders aren’t bad, they’re just never fit at the same time.
We need reliable defenders who can play together regularly, we need to stop chopping and changing the team domestically. If Jozo is continually unfit, punt him in January, likewise Erik. We should build around KT and Boyata, get a new centre half with no record of persistent injuries and look at who’s available as long term replacement for Lustig. The likes of Ralston, Ajer and Miller can be back up squad players until they are good/experienced enough to push to be a first team regular.
Bayern in a fortnight, will it be 9th central defensive combo out of 10?
i also like CGamboa , but imo he is more of a wide right midfielder, playing ahead of a right back
do we have a first team defensive coach, if we have exactly what are they doing with our defence on a daily basis.