Like several wealthy English clubs, Manchester City harvest large numbers of players with talent and potential with the intention of adding the City brand to their CV before turning a profit on them.
They usually get two bites at the revenue cherry, once when they sell them and once when they pick up a portion of the subsequent fee when the player is sold by the club who does much of the development heavy lifting. The latter part of this plan fell through for both City and Celtic when Dedryck Boyata left Glasgow out of contract in 2019. Celtic were aware the player would not sign a new contract and recruited Marvin Compper in January 2018 to allow Boyata to leave for a fee the following summer.
Compper was an unmitigated flop and without options they had any faith in, Celtic rejected a £9m bid from West Ham, which resulted in a temporary withdrawal of services by the player and the horrors of a valuable Belgian international leaving without a fee.
City did better with the £4.5m fee they received from Celtic for Olivier Ntcham four years ago. Olivier had stacks of potential but he failed to maintain a regular starting place at Celtic and was allowed to leave on loan in January. It seems unlikely that a player struggling at Celtic would be successful at Marseille and the early signs are not promising. He is very likely to pitch up at Lennoxtown in June without attracting a move to his native France and prepared to run down the final 12 months of his contract.
Despite these two poor examples, there is merit in scouring the development ranks of Europe’s largest clubs – his is how we found Odsonne Edouard, but even when the player is talented and successful, realising your investment when they inevitably leave is far from straightforward.
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Cheers WBC.
;-)
TIMBHOY2 on 4TH MARCH 2021 2:18 PM
`…oh if only you could turn back the clock.`
I was going to go into one about how current times might be seen that way in future then I remembered a more succinct expression that was on the classroom wall:
” These are the good old days. Just you wait and see.”.
I think the SPFL is a difficult league, to hold the interest of foreign players after 2 seasons.
” Bring along your TV licences to the meeting and we will refund full compensation ”
Fergus McCann
My personal favourite :-)
Two others:
`Nothing is more responsible for the good old days than a bad memory. …`
`Nostalgia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days. …`
Does anyone have any idea how attendance selection/allocation will be made if we have ,say,10,000 allowed into games at some stage next season?
( No smart comments about how we would need to bring a friend to reach 10,000 !! ).
timmy7_@ 1:23 pm
“Son of Gabriel on 4th March 2021 12:30 pm
Absolutely spot on mate. No mention in the article of our incredibly bad asset management.
Bad scouting, bad management, bad coaching now lets hear about that.”
………………………………………………..
I read the article.
In 5 short paragraphs, it lists 3 named examples of bad asset management (Boyata, Ntcham and Comperr). The only other player named is Edouard and it hints that we might struggle to fully realise what we could have with this asset.
So, how negative would it have to be to pass muster?
As for those moaning about buying players to sell them on, instaead of focusing on their football value, catch yourself on!
They are of little football value to us if they are not playing well enough to attract interest from richer clubs further up the food chain. We could buy a team of SPFL journeymen and still be competitive but we would earn little in transfer fees because Scottish players, developed at Scottish clubs, are looked at as unproven and untested, for the most part.
If our playerss train and play badly, like Comperr, or fail to play to their potential, like Ntcham, or are allowed to run down their contract, as with Boyata, we lose out on a lot of money for reinvesting in the team. Of course, in the Boyata scenario, we got one more year out of him, so we got football value. He then left on a free leaving a £9m hole. Was that one season worth £9m? He was a good player, right enough, but think the answer to that question has to be no.
notthebus on 4th March 2021 3:54 pm
Agreed. He certainly is a hero of mine and always will be. Used to bump into him doing his shopping in the old Safeway at Crossmyloof, a nice man.
Thankfully due to work commitments I was often abroad during those days and missed the booing at the flag unfurling, I distinctly remember discussing it with mates who were there and being amazed that it happened.
There might be players who were “bored” with what our season/team had to offer but not an excuse for me.
Ajer was almost certainly one of the “wantaways” but his effort and application have been excellent. Sure, his performances haven’t always been great and has probably suffered for not playing with a regular partner but there’s no faulting his professionalism.
These are things I’d be looking at if I were a potential buyer.
If I were a Villa or an Arsenal, I’d be weary about paying big money for Eddie in the fear of how he might perform once he’s “bored” or linked with bigger clubs.
” I have a leeeeettttttllllleeeee problem ”
Paulo Di Canio
Sheer utter imcompetence and bad management allowing players to leave and earn £70,000 per week
HOT SMOKED on 4TH MARCH 2021 3:47 PM
“67 EUROPEAN CUP WINNERS on 4TH MARCH 2021 1:50 PM”
We have seen on occasion that Edouard MIGHT be a really good player. If we were to judge him simply on this season`s performances,I do not believe we would come to the same conclusion.
`Skillful but not very effective` might be the assessment.
Then we realise that ,even if he is not very effective , he still scores quite a few.
As someone else said, he possibly needs better players around him to show what he is really like.
——-
Come on ?
Really you don’t think he’s an excellent football player?
He will go to the top, yes he will need to be in a team with excellent players around him to show his talent
Same as Kieran Tierney and Virgil
A fiver..
The problem with us is that Fergus made us a PLC. The Companies act makes it law that the Board operates to the best interest of the share holders. Is this really compatible with a Football Club where the fans want a winning team as its certainly not compatible with Walfrids Wish and we are not for filling the lunch tables of east end parishes.?
Now I am a shareholder and I have never had a bonus or dividend from my ordinary shares but I do get a premium on my preference shares.
I am not sure what we should be but as a PLC we have to serve interests which are not my priority
setting free the bears for Res. 12 & Oscar Knox on 4th March 2021 4:02 pm
You’ll not be surprised to hear I disagree with your assessment, IMO the article was hinting that the process doesn’t always dig up gems (the kissing frogs analogy) when in fact on the examples cited the problem was bad selection and in one case bad people management. IMO again the issue is the people making the decisions not the framework or the process. So bad asset management was the issue but that was not what P67’s analysis found.
BIGBHOY on 4TH MARCH 2021 4:09 PM
A fiver..
The problem with us is that Fergus made us a PLC. The Companies act makes it law that the Board operates to the best interest of the share holders. Is this really compatible with a Football Club where the fans want a winning team as its certainly not compatible with Walfrids Wish and we are not for filling the lunch tables of east end parishes.?
Now I am a shareholder and I have never had a bonus or dividend from my ordinary shares but I do get a premium on my preference shares.
I am not sure what we should be but as a PLC we have to serve interests which are not my priority
———
Yes I get your point but being a PLC and therefore being required to “do the best for shareholders” doesn’t mean that Celtic can’t hire the best DOF and Manager and look to European success as the benchmark
I think we can operate at a higher level as a PLC with the right people in charge
I would probably prefer a buy out of DD shares but not sure one owner suits Celtic coz be careful way you wish for
How would we feel if Mike Ashley bought out DD?
ERNIE LYNCH on 4TH MARCH 2021 2:27 PM
I agree, Edouard is good player. He does frustrate me though as he at times looks to take a touch too much. However, I put that down to players around him not being at the same level and anticipating where he will play them in. At times he does seem disinterested but I believe that is just him. A better team and league where he can get more time and space with and on the ball will suit him better.
He’s not as good as Moussa Dembele who in my opinion was better at the same stage whilst at Celtic. Moussa a lot stronger and quicker, I think.
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
82 goals in 159 games, scored by disinterested player.
I am sure he will leave this summer, most likely after we go out the CL qualifiers, but hopeful he gets to the magical 100 before he does.
Timmy7
” the article was hinting that the process doesn’t always dig up gems (the kissing frogs analogy) when in fact on the examples cited the problem was bad selection and in one case bad people management. IMO again the issue is the people making the decisions not the framework or the process. ”
We sourced Ntcham and Boyata from Man City so, whatever selection mistake we made, they had made the same mistake. We sourced Comperr from the Bundesliga (he had played for Fiorentina before Leipzig) so again from a higher standard than us so the only selection mistake was being unaware of how badly affected by injury he was.
When we call these selection mistakes, we are using hindsight judgement i.e. 2 of them are not currently thriving and the other, Boyata, left on a free. My recollection was that the signing of Comperr was generally welcomed by our support and there was only a little more hesitance about Ntcham and Boyata. None of them were universally decried in advance.
If we allow ourselves to use hindsight judgement we can all look wise after the event.
Very few will now own up to the fact that McGeady was described as a “one trick pony, Virgil as “thinks he’s better than he is”, Forster as “never comes for crosses, and Tierney as “finished due to injury and over-playing”.
In short, we have to stand by the judgements we make in real time
Paul’s first point with Man City is “they get two bites at the cherry” due to their immense buying power and squad size
Ok true
Celtic also have the same model, we sold Tierney with an add on, as we have with plenty others
Boyata running down his contract is just bad management
The management team need to be ruthless in such situations, two years left on contract and not willing to extend them sell immediately
Our main problem over last few years is selling players for 25 million and replacing for peanuts and expecting the manager to continue to succeed
Only reason BR left
Saint Stivs…we will not go out in the qualifiers. We will reach the group stage this time with our new setup and manager. And I will be delighted to stop their 2 in a row…
Believe, believe, believe…
The current academy and loan system is one of the biggest scandals in the game, allowing the likes of Man City, Chelsea and PSG to control the careers of players and stifle competition.
EUFA/FIFA should prioritise an overhaul to the loan system and limit the number of players any team can either loan out or borrow.
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 4TH MARCH 2021 4:42 PM
Not sure our “mistake” would be the same as City’s. City signed Ntcham for £730,000 but we paid £4.5m. I would say they were the winners here – especially if they covered themselves with a sell-on fee.
Also, with the disparity in finances, they can afford £1m – £5m mistakes if and when they happen…..we can’t.
WEEBOBBYCOLLINS on 4TH MARCH 2021 4:45 PM
Whilst I’m guessing your comment was a little bit tongue-in-cheek, here’s a good thread from the excellent Bhoys Analytics who I recommend people follow.
If we found the “Champions path” difficult in the CL, we’re about to see more consequences of not winning the league this season. I just hope people are patient with our new manager as he can’t be blamed if we go out in the qualifiers.
https://twitter.com/BhoysAnalytics/status/1366801953251078148
Odsonne Edouard or Ollie McBurnie ( £20 Million ) 😂
Eddy is absolute top drawer, no where near his peak.
He will go all the way to the very top..
I remember similar observations about Virgil when he played in Scotland. Similar attitude problem at times, but never for a millisecond did I doubt his ability.
Im afraid, like many others m we will see the best of Eddy in a different colour strip.
Geebee1978…yes, sometimes the old tongue gets stuck in there but I do live in hope…if not, then what’s the point?
Geebee1978…thanks for the link, will check it later.👍🏻
GEEBEE1978 on 4TH MARCH 2021 4:55 PM
WEEBOBBYCOLLINS on 4TH MARCH 2021 4:45 PM
Whilst I’m guessing your comment was a little bit tongue-in-cheek, here’s a good thread from the excellent Bhoys Analytics who I recommend people follow.
If we found the “Champions path” difficult in the CL, we’re about to see more consequences of not winning the league this season. I just hope people are patient with our new manager as he can’t be blamed if we go out in the qualifiers.
https://twitter.com/BhoysAnalytics/status/1366801953251078148
———————
I do have belief, everytime we go again, I hope for something better, this seasons collapse in team performance it was just so bad, I know a lot say “started with Lennon appointment”, but the guy had just won a cup final, and I personally could not see that last seasons ending (decent performances inho) would not continue into the new.
So aye we go again, as above though, if we cant beat the Copenhagens and Ferencvaroses, what chance have we really got.
The new set up will get critisced from the first kick of a ball.
NOTTHEBUS on 4TH MARCH 2021 5:05 PM
Eddy is absolute top drawer, no where near his peak.
He will go all the way to the very top..
I remember similar observations about Virgil when he played in Scotland. Similar attitude problem at times, but never for a millisecond did I doubt his ability.
Im afraid, like many others m we will see the best of Eddy in a different colour strip.
——-
My big disappointment is that it really doesn’t need to be that way
Yes we must sell but we only started to get proper money for talent when BR was here
If the board had backed BR and kicked on to a different level by investing all transfer fees back to the squad we would have been in a different place now
Some people would say the PLC doesn’t allow due to profit/loss or dividends but that’s bullshit
The board can decide at any time that profit reinvested is in longer term shareholder interest and decrease the funds held on account or paid in dividends
Just needs the right people on the board with vision and higher expectations
I will always remember how MoN turned things around immediately,j and so, I live in hope that the new guy will do something similar. Endeavour, plus a wee bit of luck and it can be done.
And I’m a broken glass kind of guy…
A FIVER FOR YOUR THOUGHTS
It has always been that way, all the way back to Kenny Dalglish.
Scotland is a tough sell, especially for a player with the talent to play elsewhere.
Not so sure about BR being the beginning of proper money. Think about, Mcgeady, Ki, Foster, Wanyama, VVD to name but a few,..
What happened to the Kenny Dalglish money?
SAINT STIVS on 4TH MARCH 2021 5:17 PM
We all have our opinions on who was to blame and what went wrong so no point in digging up old ground. But you’re right, if we couldn’t beat Ferencvaros, we have little hope against some of the teams we could face while we’re unseeded and at the start of a rebuild.
For the record though, I didn’t think winning the cup alone was justification. I was thinking and hoping it was a short-term appointment and quite an inspired one where both parties could shake hands, say thank you and we move on to replace Rodgers with a top-quality appointment.
But it is what it is and this is a good chance to reset with the pressure of the 10 removed.
Paul 67
How about this for an idea .
Recruit a man who is a good judge of a player.
Then sign players that are first team ready .
Take advantage of the seeding you receive for CL qualification rounds .
Beat the clubs that you are seeded above .
Qualify for the CL .
Then reinvest the circa £60 million income that you have received in CL related revenues.
Repeat and rinse.
We are far too clever at being clever.
Ajax are a great example .
TT
Guy on Clyde SSB recently, ‘this is the 55th time I’ve tried to call you”, cue howls of moronic type laughter…
are we going to call them out when its all over? or will we be still going along with this same club BS narrative..
Call them out Celtic, publicly congratulate them on their first ever title and you will win back the support you have lost this season,
show some nerve, stand alongside your support for once in your life Celtic, done waste this opportunity
NOTTHEBUS on 4TH MARCH 2021 5:28 PM
A FIVER FOR YOUR THOUGHTS
It has always been that way, all the way back to Kenny Dalglish.
Scotland is a tough sell, especially for a player with the talent to play elsewhere.
Not so sure about BR being the beginning of proper money. Think about, Mcgeady, Ki, Foster, Wanyama, VVD to name but a few,..
———-
Hard to believe £440,000 for Dalglish, heart broken when he left
Yes we started to get better money but not really what they were worth because we didn’t manage anything of note on the European stage
That’s was down to selling when strong and not replacing or building on that strength coz all you need to do is win the SPFL and qualify
BSR…I don’t think he has collected it yet.
Geebee
Man City paid £730k for a 16 year old punt.
We paid up to £4.5m for a 21 year old of proven ability for whom it was expected a future profit would be easily made.
In many metrics, the Man City expenditure was the bigger gamble on potential.
In any real world, it should still be possible to make a slight profit on Olly when we sell him but it looks like we’ve buggered up the first part of that by loaning him to a club who seem very unintersted in him. If we were to apply to sign any of Marseille’s fringe or reserve players, we would be quoted a lot moe htna £4.5m so we should be prepared to hold out for a good deal on a guy with 20 French under 21 caps.