Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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The board NEED to come out and tell us what songs/chants UEFA deemed illicit – if indeed they do know. They DO NOT have to come out and state which songs are not to be sung as that is what the police want them to do.
I’m reckoning on it being the Ooh Aah’s although part of me still thinks it might be the PMFA chants. Whatever it was (suppose it could be both), next in the firing line is the Roll of Honour.
The GB have to box clever here and we as Celtic fans must remain united. This is only the start of a campaign to divide us and make Celtic look as bad as the huns.
I can accept that some people could find songs about the IRA offensive. Fine – we cut them out at the game (in the pub/club is a different story).
Sing Celtic songs at them game louder than we’ve done before and allow them no room for criticism – they will still try to dish it out but the more we sing about Celtic the less their argument has any weight.
I’m not talking of appeasement – we need to be smart and play them at their own game.
RobertTressell – It doesn’t get much more radical than Chumbawumba.
See also those libertarian conservative agitators:
Right Said Fred. (thumbsup)
Parkheadcumsalford,
“the moment those who want to chant for IRA have been waiting for”
maybe you can point out one of those “who want to chant for the IRA” ?
For the life of me I have not found one throughout this whole discussion.
What I have noticed though is the typical argument from boors, who cannnot, properly make an argument to suppress the liberty of Celtic supporters without telling the Celtic support they want to sing IRA songs.
No one is arguing to include pro IRA songs, your liberty is at stake, you can take that with your arse in tyhe air if you want, but dont start using meeja logic, if you argue freedom of speech you support the IRA.
That will be Charlie and the bhoys snookered for any concerts in
Scotchland now.
At least we can watch the cultural orange bands for free on any street
week in week out.
Never far away
the cost to the fan gets ever dearer
the football gets poorer
the board gets evermore distant from the support
great way to run a football club
Lennon n Mc….Mjallby says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:27
PF
How did the Polis deal with the huns on Saturday?
Why has there been no mention of their songbook ay Hibs?
I hope there is a Hibs supporter who will stand up and denounce the Ragers songbook at Easter Road.
It would be better if the fan could be seen as unbiased; had shown himself to do likewise when Celtic are involved; has a prominent media; well enough regarded that he had been invited to give evidence to Scottish Govt..
Is there such a man out there?
Harrythebhoy (14:33), don’t you mean:
I do like to be beside the Celtic.
Hoopiness hoopiness by doddy.
You tak the London Road… and I’ll tak the Gallowgate
Congratulations.
Very X-Gers. (After HMRC wind them up.)
Theres a hole down in Govan.
Dublinbhoy says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:29
Well said
———————-
Headtheball says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:30
The Tricolour is indeed an illicit / overt symbol of radical Irish Nationlism and as such has nothing to do with Celtic football club or football. It should be removed from CP with immediate effect and replaced by either a white flag (boards 1st choice) or a picture of happy Leprechauns frolicking around a white whased thatched cottage whilst doffing their caps to a figure of Britannia
I wote to MSP Humza Yousaf after the Rennes game asking him to investigate what the illiict chants were that we were reported to UEFA for. I also asked him why, if the songs were illict, were there no arrests during the game – did this mean that an illicit song in UEFA terms is a legal song in Scottish Terms ?
True to his word he did write a letter to Stephen House (Strathclyde Chief Constable) and House replied to him.
Humza included the following with the House letter reply.
‘Response received last week and you can see it attached – I think the last paragraph is most telling. Not sure I am fully satisfied with the response, seems to be that the police felt too much disruption would be caused if they waded in at that point. ‘ ie when the illicit chants were happening. Humza is happy to take this further if requested to do so.
I have a copy of the House letter in a PDF file but don’t know how to upload to the forum ! The letter is two pages long and I will laboriously type out the last three paragraphs from the House reply FYI. These seem to be the most informative part of the letter.
For what its worth he does not indicate what the chants were but does talk about paramilitary organisations, must be the ‘oh ah up the ra’ or BOTOB references to IRA perhaps ? Anyway posted FYI.
‘Strathclyde Police is routinely asked what constitutes an inappropriate song or chant and whether a list of banned songs can be produced. As you will understand, this is not possible due to the prevalence of innocent songs or chants being adapted to include certain inappropriate words or phrases. What police have done is inform supporters associations and clubs of current case law or procurator fiscal advice around particular songs, phrases and chants.
In relation to this specific fixture, supporters within a football stadium singing songs in support of a proscribed paramilitary organisations, where traced, will be subject to a charge of Breach of the Peace and such activity will be highlighted, if not already noted by the match delegate
The current issues around supporters singing certain songs which are deemed as unacceptable has received significant media attention recently and many public figures including those within Strathclyde Police have asked supporters to focus onsongs regarding football, which are not offensive and which best reflect their club. Ultimately, it is hoped that supporters groups influence the songs which are sung, thus preventing the need for police ot football authority intervention’
PFayr
Didn`t watch it mate but someone sent me a link to
the criminal acts that took place.
Im sure it will be all over the newspapers, TV and radio though.
Then again, maybe not.
We knew this day would come, we walked into a trap set initially by our guardians of the club we love!
Our guardians have stood shoulder to shoulder with the dark side too long( not excluding deliberately misleading and bull jobbying us the supporters with their printed propaganda delivered to each and every one of us at season ticket renewal time, we will do this, we will do that, but only with your support,we need you GIVE US YOUR MONEY!
Only to take and not deliver
Mowbray- cheap option
Lennon ( nothing against the ghood man himself) the cheap option
Mastorovic – nothing is cheaper than nothing paid
Forster-2 year loan deal, looking for cheap likely to cost
Bangura-cheap option as opposed to Diawara
Not fixing now 5 year and counting central defence shambles- cheap option
To name a few
result – them 3 us 0 and disastrous losses of finance only for us to bail them out!
Where are they now when we need them-ON THE WRONG SIDE AGAIN
Yes we could have been smarter, avoid songs which have been targeted and ring fenced as a weapon to beat us with especially as we knew it was coming, but I believe this has proven I was right to worry about us more than worry about them, not just on the pitch in games against that lot but in our boardroom!
Faithful through and through, for us at least!
I said earlier if the GB go i go, I stand by that!
philvis
Winning podium position perennially is offensive, – I bet you can prove it isn’t. ◤(¬‿¬)◥
seanbhoy69 @ 14:29
It gets worse than that.
Referring to him as old Blue Eyes can be traced back to a distand memory, where a hun with blue eyes was called a hun.
It’s the history of the songs that are important.
We might get away with this, as long as we sing it with genuine respect to our hun neighbours and with no hint of sarcasm or irony. Especially not irony, they really, REALLY don’t like irony, whatever it is. Get on our knees when singing it and there can be no misinterpretation. That’s the way to do it. On our knees. That’ll keep them happy and protect our Club from any further abuse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWbMikrZ91U
JackGlasgow – His name’s Hunza and he’s a naughty boy. (thumbsup)
For those who are asking the Celtic support to stop politicising Celtic, ask yourself this.
Why are the dozens of pubs/clubs playing rebel music week in and out not being closed down? Why can you buy “the rebs” in mainstrean shopping centres? Why is this not being stopped? How can the WolfeTones play in Scotland?
Celtic are being politicised alright, but not by the support. They are being politicised by the ruling political elite in an anti-Irish agenda.
Celtic are being singled out for attention and you have to decide whether to accept it or fight for change.
Harrythebhoy says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:33
‘Happiness happiness by doddy.’
That might be a bit dodgy as could be construed as offensive to the transgendered community.
Many years ago an exotic foreign actress (can’t remember her name) appeared on Desert Island Discs. The presenter, Roy Plomley, asked her what her first choice would be on a desert island and was a bit taken aback when she apparently replied ‘a penis.’
Decorum was restored when it became clear that she was in fact requesting the well known Ken Dodd song.
PF
Just when they’d finished the M74 link for you ghuys?
philvisreturns @ 14:31
he does, he does indeed. But will he? Nope.
Will Rod sing any of his songs?? No, how could he, they are all illicit.
PFayr
You name it they sang it!!!
http://youtu.be/1888E6xkj_I
can people please stop saying that Lawell and co dont know what we have been fined for, they know excatly what it is for
over to Mr Lawell to let us know
Bhoys its time for a few boycotts and not at away grounds – i know of a few Irish guys that are returning their season tickets – but that to me means noting to “our” board they have already been paid the cash for this
i would love to see none of us turn up at the game v them – have the world ask a lot of questions and show Lawell and co exactly what we think
bournesouprecipe – Winning podium position perennially is offensive, – I bet you can prove it isn’t. ◤(¬‿¬)◥
Podium Enemy:
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2180/flavaflavbhoy.jpg
(thumbsup)
The bigger picture is that Scottish football is going down the drain and our board (and principal shareholder) is doing nothing to get us out of it.
FFM
:)
Can I suggest that when the inevitable repertoire from you know who begins on the 28th, instead of trying to out sing it, the entire Celtic support should boo as loudly as possible and continue to do so each time another ditty is sung. This would draw the watching world’s attention to what these cretins sing week in week out and mostly get away with. Or is booing political?
ernie lynch says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:41
‘Happiness happiness by doddy.’
That might be a bit dodgy as could be construed as offensive to the transgendered community.
Many years ago an exotic foreign actress (can’t remember her name) appeared on Desert Island Discs. The presenter, Roy Plomley, asked her what her first choice would be on a desert island and was a bit taken aback when she apparently replied ‘a penis.’
Decorum was restored when it became clear that she was in fact requesting the well known Ken Dodd song.
share
That did make me grin.
Has to be a masonic thing if they wont tell us the songs we cannot sing….do we have the bros. in the board of celtic football club
Actually there’s a point.
Anyone got a listed of words we can safely to add to orange tunes?
Would it be acceptable to change the odd word every 3rd sentence?
Or do we need to stick to the original.
Probably need to stick to the original..until it’s clear what is offensive to everyone.
Ok.
Shall we start the Sash before they do on the 28th, or let them take it away?
Harrythebhoy – That might be a bit dodgy as could be construed as offensive to the transgendered community.
Somebody call Patricia Harvey MSP. (thumbsup)
philvis
Baldies Enemy
tomtheleedstim says:
13 December, 2011 at 14:41
The problem is that this is the environment we find oursleves in – the focus is on football grounds and ppolitical expression at these grounds.
If we cut it out at the football and they come after us in the pubs and bars, then that is preventing freedom of political expression which no court in Europe would allow.
iki @ 14:37
Eh….Pat Nevin?
FFB
Careful Rod. You might get us in trouble!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1qxJPzjObI
bournesouprecipe – He’s like the anti-Majstorović. (thumbsup)
Check 2.04 Clear penalty. I wonder would it have been given Today. I have my doubts.
http://youtu.be/47EJ1KpNbVQ
Anyone else suspect that UEFA’s attitude has been influenced by the referee ‘strike’?
Oh i fogot to remind everyone – The Tricolour was presented to Celtic by Éamon de Valera, commandant of a unit that inflicted almost 300 casulaties on British troops during the rebellion, court-martialled, convicted, and sentenced to death by the British, reprieved because he was born in America. 1st Príomh Aire of the Irish Republic therefore commander in cheif of the IRA during the Irish War of independence. Refused to sign the treaty which lead to the Irish Civil war.
As the old (illicit) song goes take it down from the mast