Yesterday, the Premier League charged Manchester City with more than 100 financial rule breaches over the period 2009 – 2018. The club have not cooperated with the ongoing inquiry since 2018. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge, but the cuts from 2010-12 run deep, when similar charges were successfully brought against Rangers.
Problems started for City over innocuous-sounding investigations into Related Party Transactions. These are areas where an owner or controller of a club pays money, for example, to sponsor the stadium. Uefa Financial Fair Play rules prevents clubs artificially inflating such deals in order to pump more money into their coffers.
The Premier League charge, among other matters, that City did not disclose full player and manager renumeration between 2010 and 2016. City deny all allegations.
The clearest difference between City and Rangers is the protagonist. HMRC were active against Rangers and other Murray Group companies. They pursued the club for disguised remuneration through the inappropriate use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs). The matter went to the Supreme Court, which rules these Trusts were renumeration and should have been subject to employment taxes.
HMRC are not involved with City, so it is unlikely public services have lost out on this occasion. The League have appointed a KC to head a commission of inquiry to investigate. Before the HMRC action against Rangers concluded, but after liquidators were appointed, the Scottish Premier League asked Lord Nimmo Smith to investigate rule breaches. Nimmo Smith found Rangers broke player registration rules of both the SPL and SFA.
In surprising testimony, the SFA’s Sandy Bryson gave evidence to the inquiry that, “even if there had been a breach of the SFA registration procedures, the registration of a player was not treated as being invalid from the outset, and stood unless and until it was revoked.”
So if you break the rules, you get away with it unless and until HMRC catch you. The gods of good governance hid their faces. England is different, of course. There, their administrators, public prosecutors and police are not partial to any one club. Without the City of London Police raiding Ibrox and passing information along Whitehall to HMRC in 2007, Rangers liquidation would never have happened.
If charges against them are upheld, Manchester City’s period of domination of English football is over, a return to the days of the enigmatic Kinkladze beckons. Few will weep.
Throughout season 2011-12, Rangers, their fans, much of the media and several football administrators, backed owner Craig Whyte and his plan to flush the club’s liabilities, form a Newco and apply for SPL membership.
They were stopped by fan action which started on these pages in October 2011 with ‘The prepack route for Rangers Newco FC’. I did not dream this up on my own. The day before, Peter Lawwell called, worried that this would happen, “We need to stop this.” He called practically every day for the rest of that season urging more action.
I was given credit for my prescience, he took the blame for not going public, believing it would undermine his influence with other clubs. Neither were deserved. Without his Machiavellian strategizing, you would have lived under a red, white and blue cosh for the last decade or so. There’s more I could write, but probably best not. I just thought you should know some of what happened.
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Rangers Tax-Case
@rangerstaxcase
The Man City case will be of passing interest and will generate lots of comparisons to the Rangers’ case.
Let’s not lose sight of what happened at Rangers and why it mattered.
A recap thread.
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https://twitter.com/rangerstaxcase/status/1622621988727713795
Bhoyjoebelfast on 7th February 2023 5:28 pm
● One to ponder●
First time that two opposing managers both black, of clubs in the UK ( in top tiers) met.The game involved Celtic and was a friendly encounter.John Barnes is one manager,who the other?
History in the making CSC
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JOE THE HUDDLE got me on the right track.
https://www.thecelticwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/1-20.jpg
https://wikifoundryimages.s3.amazonaws.com/3EYyCmfHm03H8mR6tLiofw107157
JOE
Who was the first European player to play for Celtic (albeit the reserves)? He also played at the World Cup.
Pub quiz or not , that is the question.
Sorry guys in the Curlers to avoid ambiguity.
Teuchter
Can you explain how exactly that would have worked ? How this fight would have been won in the courts etc ? Why uefa would have listened ?
Ernie Lynch
My understanding was that Paul simply did not promote the res 12 movement but didn’t speak strongly against it.
Obviously your proximity to the action behind the scenes at CP gave you a ringside seat mind you.
Ange will be like every individual who plys there trade as a football player or a coach ,if a good offer is on the table (money ) and a lot of money to spend on players,and other structures are in place ie his own staff and good training facilities,I reckon 10 times out 10 they will leave there present club .
🤣🤣🤣😊
I must admit, Jesse Marsch had a monkey on his back as he sounded like ‘the soccer guy’.
Only way he could shake the prejudice was to win games : and he didn’t
Ted Lasso didn’t help the guy…..
😂
PARKHEADCUMSALFORD on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 4:50 PM
Many of the original CQNers seem to have migrated to Sentinel Celts.
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Well, I’m one of those who was a contributor for many years from quite early on. However, we have lost a few very fine folks over the years (bless them all) and some who have left because the blog no longer felt
as it did post inception. I must say, I’m one who has gradually stopped posting because of what
Paul’s blog has now become.
Less Celtic, more personal and in some cases vituperative “political opinions” sometimes sliding toward FF status.
I may look in from time to time but that is pretty much it for me.
Sadly.
HH
Ange isn’t daft. He can pretty much stay with us as long as he wants. What is the shelf life of any manager in the EPL. People are calling for Klopps head. It only takes some injuries some bad luck a couple of dud signings and you are toast. Money isn’t everything.
BURNLEY78 on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 7:30 PM
‘My understanding’
##
Perhaps not the strongest foundation on which to construct an argument.
Competition is only healthy if it’s fair.
If anyone can tell me what’s fair, or indeed rational, about a 10 year old club having 54 titles added to the 1 they actually won, then I’m all ears.
It is Really annoying so much Focus on Ange being on Leeds radar.
Ange is, IMO, Elite level.
Bobby Madden did his worst – in his last Celtic newco hampdump game.
A Hun, giving a leaving present to the SFA that Helped him as much as possible.
Ange has a lot of unfinished buisness @ Celtic and the Hun know this.
SAINT STIVS on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 7:05 PM
He’s wrong though when he mentions two contracts. There was only ever one contract for each player. And it wasn’t the one registered with the SFA. It was that document as amended by the side letter.
Rangers Tax-Case
@rangerstaxcase
·
Feb 6
And Rangers were not relegated. Liquidation meant they no longer fulfilled the criteria for SPFL membership.
If others can quote selectively from Nimmo Smith then so can I “Rangers ceased to be a club”.
BURNLEY78 on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 3:12 PM
Ernie
Can you explain exactly what the realistic gain would have been if the res12 had been taken further ?
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It depends on what you think Res12 hoped to achieve and the part PL played in its creation.
Did you know PL played a part or did you think it was just some nutty shareholders wanting to get Rangers sanctioned?
If the latter you are misinformed.
If you or anyone wish to understand the genesis of Res12 it is all documented and published on Phil Mac Giollah Bhain’s web site
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2022/01/04/an-opportunity-for-michael-nicholson-to-have-a-fresh-start/
With title Res12. A Story of Duplicity from Cradle to Grave.
It would really help folk understand what took place and the motivation that kept shareholders persisting as each attempt to get at the truth was resisted by SFA Celtic and UEFA who all feared the consequences of 10 years of cheating by use of ebts by RFC being exposed by an investigation in 2013 not the one year Res12 focussed on.
The brass neck of some is…..incredible.
Big gob beery bullies will eventually sour the atmosphere of any howff……………
The grass ain’t any greener…………as is quite easy to confirm.
That Paul has put up with the guff is quite something.
HH CQN.
GERRYBHOY on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 8:06 PM
I was here almost from the beginning. I enjoyed Paul’s efforts to explain amortization. After a few weeks, I realized that it was a blog, and that others could comment. For a while it was just Paul and Neganon arguing about accounting principles.
From there on, the subscriber base grew rapidly. A lot of good people joined in and it was a vibrant place. Kojo and his other names entertained for a bit, but quickly crossed the line.
As time went by, the blog construct became unwieldy (for me at least). Paul had a vote on whether to convert to threads, but sadly the majority voted for the ‘noisy pub’ blog to be retained. I posted very little as time went on. No matter how brilliant :) my points were, no-one engaged, as they were all busy talking back and forth with their pals.
When I forgot my password, I just never bothered getting a new one.
About 10 years later, I rejoined. Not much has changed, except with fewer posters it is (somewhat) easier to follow some of the conversations.
Jeez, between one thing and another today has not been a good day for the Snp.
Ernie…it’s been a wee while since the snp had a good day…
WEEBOBBYCOLLINS on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 8:59 PM
True, but today you’d be forgiven for thinking that fate has it in for them.
I suppose it depends what the media are able/willing to report.
Gerrybhoy,
I still keep to CQN but only by my fingertips. Imo, it is not the site it was. It used to be very enjoyable, entertaining and thought-provoking, imo. Can’t say that anymore.
Did the rot set in when politics reared its head a few years back?
Res12 certainly played its part.
The lack of respect for and, indeed, personal attacks on others, especially Paul67, obviously contributed to folk moving elsewhere.
The Huddle @5.35 = Yes,sorry for being so late getting back.
SCULLYBHOY @7.12 Yes good detective work re Ruud Gullit.
Julius Hsulin played goals for USA although born in Sweden.I posed this query few months ago.Have to get a few books to you via usual channels. Not long in from son’s house……his lad has turned 18 was in Glasgow visiting his Gran and cousins,going to The Temple,Andersonstown on Friday evening.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/TeH4kmvhh_w
`agenda` ? Hmm…
Paul67
I remember those heady days of 2012 .
I never understood the idea that Rangers could dump debt by some flat pack device and then expect to continue as a contender for a UEFA licence.
Quite how they and SFA could have got round Article12 of UEFA FFP intrigues me.
Accounts submitted by RFC as Newco would be from a different legal entity as the applicant for a licence in the previous season.
How could SFA grant a licence to play in Scotland never mind in UEFA Competition with only one years set of accounts to go?
What precedent would it have set for other clubs if debt could be dumped with no consequences?
Nope not buying it. You might but PL was paid to know the footballing consequences.
With regard to the mis registration charges that arose immediately after Mark Daly broadcast the Men Who Sold the Jerseys in May 2012, which caused PL to write to Regan at SFA copied to Infantino at UEFA about implications arising from RFC ebt use (all published in May 2012)
I remember TBB and myself asking what’s the rush? Any investigation before the true status of ebts with side letters was premature but there was a rule 5f in SFA Articles of Association that required clubs to act with the upmost good faith to fellow members and the SFA could have led if it were not for SFA President Campbell Ogilve not wanting that charge to be placed, him being initiator of first DOS ebt and recipient of a BTC ebt and so knowing full well Rangers were guilty of that charge.
A LNS Commission looking into breach of Art5f, had they received all the info the SPL lawyers requested (which Duff and Phelps failed to provide) would have been in no doubt in 2013 with the Res12 question in the air, that RFC had not acted with upmost good faith to fellow members and titles would have been stripped instead of swerved on the Bryson technicality.
Finally there may be a Man City read over. Reports are that City are charged with misrepresenting their true financial position in their accounts.
The term is “fair presention” and it appears under Art47 of old FFP.
The question now is did RFC meet that requirement in their accounts from 2001?
EBT payments were reported as one line but did the payments to players reflect what they were being paid in full?
In the case of Greek club Giannin, UEFA found in 2013, whilst investigating tax overdue, that 5 or 6 players had “private agreements ” that failed to be fairly presented in their accounts.
This was an additional reason to refuse a UEFA licence as well as overdue tax existing at 31 March.
I wonder if Infantion in 2012 on reading PLs letter saw an appalling vista opening where a club had been wrongly granted a UEFA licence for 10yrs!
I can only wonder because his reply to PL if any in 2012 was never published, but it does explain why Res12 was strongly resisted lest it uncovered more than it was seeking and it also suggests Celtic were under pressure to keep the lid on as lifting it would not be in UEFAs interest far lest Celtic’s.
Throughout season 2011-12, Rangers, their fans, much of the media and several football administrators, backed owner Craig Whyte and his plan to flush the club’s liabilities, form a Newco and apply for SPL membership.
They were stopped by fan action which started on these pages in October 2011 with ‘The prepack route for Rangers Newco FC’. I did not dream this up on my own. The day before, Peter Lawwell called, worried that this would happen, “We need to stop this.” He called practically every day for the rest of that season urging more action.
I was given credit for my prescience, he took the blame for not going public, believing it would undermine his influence with other clubs. Neither were deserved. Without his Machiavellian strategizing, you would have lived under a red, white and blue cosh for the last decade or so. There’s more I could write, but probably best not. I just thought you should know some of what happened.
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P67
Do you seriously expect anyone to believe this due to the fact that Lawwell bemoaned on several occasions the loss of revenue with the death of the old club?
Because what he told people publicly was the opposite of what you are saying.
Im not going to say you are making it up, all I will say is that I think the story from the old Sunday Sport about a B52 bomber found on the moon has more truth to it.
Bhoyjoebelfast on 7th February 2023 9:13 pm
The Huddle @5.35 = Yes,sorry for being so late getting back.
SCULLYBHOY @7.12 Yes good detective work re Ruud Gullit.
Julius Hsulin played goals for USA although born in Sweden.I posed this query few months ago.Have to get a few books to you via usual channels. Not long in from son’s house……his lad has turned 18 was in Glasgow visiting his Gran and cousins,going to The Temple,Andersonstown on Friday evening.
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Good man JOE. I am sorry for repeating your question on Julius. You are very kind with the reading material, and I must see if I can return the compliment.
I look forward to a tour of Clonard when it suits (AN TEARMANN et al).
Pass on B-Day wishes to the young bhoy.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
He was the goalkeeper who never stopped moving. As a teenager, he won a historic Swedish title. Later he became a pioneer in Scotland. With the United States, he lost to Mussolini but helped defeat Hitler.
Meet Julius Hjulian – a forgotten footballer of firsts.
Beginnings
Over the last 20 years, a string of Swedes have found success at Scottish giants Celtic FC. The full-back Mikael Lustig is the latest. Magnus Hedman and Johan Mjällby were in the squad that reached the 2003 Uefa Cup final. The greatest is of course Henrik Larsson, who scored 174 goals between 1997 and 2004.
But Julius Hjulian was the first.
Hjulian? Yes, he changed his name upon arrival at Ellis Island in New York. He continued to Chicago, where he found work with the railroad car manufacturer Pullman. Julius was also signed up for the factory-sponsored “soccer” team, on condition that he avoid working night shifts. Pullman FC won the Illinois state championship – the Peel Cup – in 1923, and Julius was recruited to Harvey FC.
He described himself as a brave goalkeeper. Not particularly tall, but powerful and quick off his line. Julius said that while playing for Harvey, a group of travelling English referees spotted his talent. They recommended that he try his luck in Britain. And Julius was never one to hesitate.
In 1925, he travelled back across the Atlantic. He stayed with friends in Glasgow, and earned his first trial with Second Division Clyde FC. After a successful session, word travelled quickly. The 16-time champions also wanted to see Julius in action.
Almost 50 years later, Julius told a Swedish newspaper the story of his first Celtic practice. There were no football boots available for him, so he had to wear his regular shoes while the Celtic stars fired away at him. “My hands were aching, my feet slipped and I thought I performed badly. When I returned to the dressing room, I had given up hope of playing Division One football.” But Willie Maley, the legendary Celtic manager who had been in charge since 1897, wanted him to sign a contract. Julius thereby became the first known Swede to play professionally on the British Isles. He definitely was the first Scandinavian at Celtic.
According to his 1973 interview, Julius received £200, plus match bonuses. Those did not amount to much, as Peter Shevlin remained Celtic’s undisputed number one. Julius is said to have played only three games for the club, since the reserve team had been scrapped for the 1925/26 season. The campaign ended with Celtic winning the league, but losing the Cup final following a Shevlin error. The next winter, after more mistakes, he was replaced by John Thomson.
ERNIE LYNCH on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 5:36 PM
TEUCHTER ÁR LÁ on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 5:04 PM
‘when provided with a solid legal case to smash the cartel, sat back and said nothing.
###
They acted disingenuously by stringing along the Res12 guys.
Paul67 was to some extent their enabler in that, whether he was aware of it at the time or not.
===
If you read the Res12 Duplicity from Cradle to Grave story I linked to earlier.you will note that as soon as Res12 was opposed by Celtic it was obvious to me that I had been misled from May 2013.
Celtic were disingenuous but a string has two ends.
It would have been much easier if they had told the truth and look at the consequences of their stringing.
What I am leaning to now (if you read my post mentioning Infantino) is that Celtic were put under pressure to keep the lid on (as well as all the other domestic football consequences) by UEFA and that led to mistakes and continuing deception.
ST TAMS on 7TH FEBRUARY 2023 2:26 PM
Personally, I would be happy if we never had to play the huns again.
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What he said 👏👏
Broony takes Fleetwood to 5th round for the first time in their clubs history 👍
Rangers died.
Congrats to Broony. I’m a bit of an Owls fan because my good friend is a diehard there, but really pleased for our former captain.
Canada are,
I have no earthly idea why you constantly defend Putin.Your nonsense today about Syria,is frankly shocking.Have you seen Alleppo.Before,a beautiful city of some,5 million people.Now after 10 years of constant Russian bombing,backing the Tyrant,Assad,there is nothing left standing.Your nonsense today about tunnels underground causing the damage is utter nonsense.On the border of Turkey,we have 4 million Syrian refugees,who fled this horror.Putin is using the same tactics in Ukraine.Attacking,and flattening cities,as it worked so well in Syria.Attacking the civilian population,raising cities to the ground.
You sound brainwashed were Putin is concerned,so I will ignore your utter nonsense in future as your knowledge is totally based on Russian propaganda you find on their sites,therefore,you are nothing more than a fool.Not worthy of debating with.The Lord Haw haw of CQN.
For Canamalar.