Who made the poppy a political symbol? For those who collected the flower from fields in France 90 years ago and many bereaved relatives at home it was a symbol of respect for loved ones lost, but it can be used politically and has been shamelessly politicised in Scotland in recent years, where the symbol of national loss has been exploited.
In itself, the poppy is not political, it occupies the same territory as the black armband, but even this worldwide symbol of respect has been exploited for political ends by footballers in the past.
I can understand why many in England are furious that Fifa consider the poppy a political symbol and have banned England for wearing it against Spain this week, but since a few live to exploit the flower for political ends, the Fifa decision is correct.
Before making the decision someone at Fifa would have undertaken cursory research into the subject. Searching Google for “poppy football” a few weeks ago would have returned this (now archived) result. I’m sure you recall; a banner at Celtic Park, which didn’t make the news on the day it was displayed, or on the next day, was badgered by someone into the news on day three. Celtic were the target of that exercise, the England team are now collateral damage.
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!!Bada Bing!! says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:31
‘How can you have guys on Committees such as this ,when it is obvious you will get conflict of interest on who’s team has sinned or was sinned against?’
It wouldn’t be appropriate to consider whether a conflict of interest arises on a committee which is part of a system that allows referees to officiate in matches in which the team they support are playing.
Intolerance has no borders in British football
When little Englanders scribble for Middle England, the taste on the palate can be as repugnant as a posse of Chelsea ‘fans’ visiting Belgium to tell Anton Ferdinand ‘we know what you are’.
Picking up a copy of a right-wing rag that passes itself off as an organ of moral rectitude in recent times, it was difficult not to recall the ludicrousness of one article by a hack trying to pass himself off as some sort of wise sage on why Celtic and Rangers – and the ‘barbaric bigotry’ that tails the Glasgow clubs – should never be allowed access to England’s elite division.
A racist undercurrent remains prevalent in English football, but it is the social ill of sectarianism that apparently demands Rangers and/or Celtic have no place in the highfalutin’ environs of the Premier League.
“Entry to the world of Rangers and Celtic may become an introduction to a casual bigotry that is simply not a factor in the game south of the border, for all its problems,” commented the author. “In this way, Scottish football remains a much worse England: and it is why its biggest clubs must be left to resolve their troubles, alone.”
Best not to mention the casual racism south of the border. Full of factual inaccuracies, it this sort of ignorant lingo you expect to hear from Alf Garnett or a London cabbie blaming the country’s social ills on the influx of various Johnny Foreigner sorts into the UK, or those pesky ‘Jocks’ coming down from the hills.
The introduction of Rangers and Celtic – or even an Aberdeen or Hearts – into the English game would hardly soil a landscape that is already tainted. The Premier League is not suddenly infiltrated by sunshine and roses after the English disease of hooliganism adorned the 1980s.
Recent happenings suggest that English football has as many problems with racism and bigotry in its own green and unpleasant lands as those that go on in and around the fringes of the Scottish game.
The shiny new stadiums of the monied Premier League is merely a front for the anti-social behaviour it hides. It has only being lying dormant, despite the arrival of a wealthy, middle class supporter over the past two decades.
When the Celtic manager Neil Lennon was receiving death threats, letter bombs and bullets sent to him in the post from various outposts in the wild, wild west of Ayrshire earlier this year, there was a collective shaking of the head in England, almost in sympathy to suggest at least this sort of stuff is not going on in their own backyard.
Of course, this is balderdash. We had the sight of Arsenal fans singing ‘It should have been you – shot dead in Angola – it should have been you’ at their former player Emmanuel Adebayor during a match at Tottenham last month. Adebayor avoided death when the Togo team bus was ambushed during the 2010 African Nations Cup.
Ferdinand received a death threat in the post on Friday after Chelsea captain Terry made an alleged racist comment towards the Queens Park Rangers player during a game at Loftus Road last month. Is this any worse than Scotland’s affliction?
The issue of sectarianism has been used as a stick to beat Rangers and Celtic with on why neither club should be allowed a move to richer shores. From a sporting perspective – as the Bolton chairman Phil Gartside subscribed to on the last vote on the subject – any observer with an ouce of common sense knows that both the Glasgow clubs would quickly become key components of the Premier League. The level of finance that would become available to them – and their respective fan bases – would demand as much.
Arsenal, Chelsea, Fulham, Liverpool and Manchester United have all been to European finals in recent times, but it is only Celtic who have been afforded the gratitude of UEFA and FIFA for the estimated 80,000 or so fans who descended upon Seville for the UEFA Cup final in 2003. Celtic also carried greater numbers for a UEFA Cup final than Manchester United gathered for their trip to Barcelona to lift the Champions League in 1999.
The riots at the 2008 UEFA Cup final between Rangers and Zenit St Petersburg in Manchester was an evening of lamentable sights and sounds, but the problem with the type of characters who clamp themselves to the Glasgow club are as unsavoury as those who come out of the woodwork to support clubs such as West Ham and Millwall. The answer to discrimination is surely not more discrimination.
Like the UEFA Cup final, what should have been an innocuous Carling Cup tie in 2009 between the Hammers and Millwall became a crime scene. Upton Park was the bloodied focal point for the reawakening of the glamorised subculture of the ‘football casual’, a figure who many thought had witnessed the peak of his gory years over two decades ago. He is alive and kicking in London.
One man stabbed, several pitch invasions and arrests aplenty. Police on horseback, police in riot gear, police in helicopters and an assortment of ‘supporters’ led away. Seats ripped up, bottles tossed and Carlton Cole, the West Ham player, allegedly suffering racial abuse. This was a night to prompt despairing glances.
“I know I’m not a monkey. I might be as strong as a gorilla but I’m not a monkey. That’s life, isn’t it?” said Cole.
Scotland’s leading two clubs may remain tethered to the Scottish Premier League for some time to come, but they should not be denied a place in the Premier League on the basis of an intolerance that continues to ache within English football.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/desmond-kane/article/2566/
themightyquinn says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:38
“The idea that wearing a poppy to remember those who have given their lives for our freedom is a political act is absurd.” says Mr. Cameron (Politician) with no hint of irony.
International Family Feud: No*
WWII: Yes
Korea: No
South Atlantic General Election Conflict: No
Iraq MkI: No
Iraq MkII: No
Afghanistan: No
It’s actually true that international family feud from 1914-1918 did give us a modicum of freedom. Prior to, and indeed during, that war the working class had no right to vote but could be sent to their deaths without representation (as they were in their hundreds of thousands).
We would later gain full suffrage, with women’s voting rights later still. We are, however, still lorded over by the same elite as back then, we just get to vote for them now.
James Forrest,
Ref your post earlier re the application of the rules, the SPL sets down a number of criteria for clubs wishing to join the SPL, opening with:
A2.5 The Membership Criteria are:-.
A2.5.1 A Club participating in the League must be a member of the SFA.
there thereafter follows a series of further requirements, rounded off with the following:
A2.7 The Board may in its absolute discretion waive, relax or grant a period of grace in respect of any Club’s or Candidate Club’s requirement to comply with any part of the Membership Criteria and/or Rules A2.6 and H6.1.
If the rules are to be applied, there is nothing to stop the SPL, in its absolute discretion, welcoming Rubin Kazan into the league, never mind some newco Rangers trash.
ernie- too true.
I hear only two people on Soccer AM have refused to wear the Poppy in recent weeks. Both DJs/musicians. One of them is white the other is black.
There were 1500 complaints from viewers – all of them directed at just one of the individuals.
Any ideas which one was the target?
Bjmac,
unlike yourself and auldheid, I am not for giving the sfa any chances to get their house in order, I believe they would use the time to create as much confusion and secret cliques as possible.
I had this discussion with auldheid a way way back, IMO we should be taking the sfa down, destroy all remnants of the corrupt sectarian organisation and start with a clean slate, its the only way to properly move ahead.
Any so called restructuring is a cop out, a system that rotten can never be put right.
Celtic Mac says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:29
‘The only tradition I can find is the targeting of football, in 1915 and, now to do their bit.’
Prof James Wavin in his The People’s Game estimates that before conscription was introduced the army managed to recruit 500,000 soldiers directly from football related recruitment initiatives.
Players who had signed up were paraded at home games and supporters urged to follow their example.
Football was used by then in the same way that it is being used today.
Steinreignedsupreme says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:54
Surely not true. It sounds like one of those things that are posted, strangely enough, on forums like this and become FACT.
ernie lynch says:
I understand that Celtic and Willie Maley actively encouraged volunteering.
More fool them.
ernie lynch says:
Agreed.
Much of what has been posted on here today revolves around the politicisation of football and politics. WW1 provided a great exampleof this when a football match kicked off between the two opposing armies on Christmas Day 1914. Needless to say the Generals couldn’t allow that to happen and such behaviour was quickly outlawed. What would have happened if such matches had continued?
Bjmac
Great post !
I have to admit that the failure even to deliver the beads to us the Indians is hardly surprising.
I think it only reinforces the fact that we are Old Firm. What we witnessed last year was deliberate obfuscation. Let the huns get away with murder .. promise the dim tims modernisation … do as we always do
We seem to have gone very quiet on many fronts. Peter Lawwell, Neil Lennon, Paul67, Paul Mc Bride ….
I am of the opinion that we are all out of cage rattling. Phil rattled a few yesterday
Are we hoping that Scottish football will eat itself or are we sitting terrified of it.
I believe that WE the OLD FIRM are in a petrified state.
AND the OLD FIRM are telling us run along timmy nothing to see here
Hail Hail
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/nov/09/england-poppies-spain-game
Ex Ludo says:
9 November, 2011 at 16:02
Let’s face it loads of English and German fans in one place can only mean one thing: scrapping between the casuals?
canamalar ,
we Celtic FC are obviously so much a part of that rotten organisation. NO DEBATE ….. or at least nobody will take that debate on :-)
Hail Hail
Ex Ludo says:
9 November, 2011 at 16:02
‘What would have happened if such matches had continued?’
I suppose eventually Trotsky would have supplied the referee and linesmen from the red army.
Ernie Lynch
Incredible though those numbers were and are, they were not enough. They were never enough. Do not want to volunteer, do not worry, you are going anyway!
Ex Ludo says:
9 November, 2011 at 16:02
Facetious observations aside – the thought processes and rationalization behind the clamp-down is actually thoroughly disgusting.
Jeez, I’ve just seen a photo of the young goalkeeper up on the sectarian charge.
Who would’ve thunk it – It seems Charlie was the brother blessed with the looks in the Adam(s) family!!
ernie lynch says:
I don’t know if it can be obtained on DVD or not.
A few years ago there was an excellent television programme about the exploitation of football for political reasons.
Football is not alone in sport in being exploited in this fashion. Just watch out for the turning up the volume of jingoism as next year’s London Olympics get nearer.
A great song about war….
Awe_Naw…,
Can I debate on the same side :o)
Ex Ludo @16 02
Extra Time -with the Germans winning on penalties. ?
Mort,
I wanted to ask you about the monies from yon game at Ibrox. I know Murray gave a paltry sum to charity. How much did he pocket? Any idea?
To all and sundry,
What I would like to happen with Stephen Craven is that he be interviewed by someone like Glenn Gibbons and the whole sorry story is given an airing. A problem I foresee is that the Scotsman wouldn’t print it. Does anyone know if Kevin MacArra still writes for the Guardian?
dirtymac: 9 November, 2011 at 15:59
“Surely not true. It sounds like one of those things that are posted, strangely enough, on forums like this and become FACT.”
One hundred percent true. The individuals involved were Norman Cook and Tinchy Stryder.
bunburybhoy says:
9 November, 2011 at 16:07
A much better song about war and army recruitment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ7Is1ZR_SQ&feature=related
Dirtymac, No we cant have the men singing carols and relating to each other as human beings when we have a war to fight. The next thing you know they’ll be wanting to go home to their families.
Canamalar
Celtic PLC has never been so scrutinised since it came into being.
Their lies will be the death of us but to be honest I´d rather that than live a lie.
Hail Hail
Parkheadcum…,
The minimum legal donation for charity fund raising is 7%, maybe that might be a clue to how much was actually given.
Just did a quick count of ‘ordinary’ people wearing poppies in a Tesco Extra, went round all the aisles, counted 20, out of hundreds in the store
Steinreignedsupreme says:
9 November, 2011 at 16:09
Haud on. He was on two weeks ago; Cook at the weekend.
Surely this is a fabrication?
Stolen from the Guardian’s new sports blog:
Javier Pastore’s incredible control
Lets talk football. Seems our injuries are clearing up. Brown, Izzy & Wilson not too far away
Awe_Naw….,
As said before we need to get rid of the masons on the board.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/celtic/278382-steven-craven-shocked-and-disappointed-at-lifetime-ban-from-refereeing/
Ron Bacardi says:
9 November, 2011 at 16:14
Just did a quick count of ‘ordinary’ people wearing poppies in a Tesco Extra, went round all the aisles, counted 20, out of hundreds in the store”
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Was that Tesco, Kabul :)