Who made the poppy a political symbol? For those who collected the flower from fields in France 90 years ago and many bereaved relatives at home it was a symbol of respect for loved ones lost, but it can be used politically and has been shamelessly politicised in Scotland in recent years, where the symbol of national loss has been exploited.
In itself, the poppy is not political, it occupies the same territory as the black armband, but even this worldwide symbol of respect has been exploited for political ends by footballers in the past.
I can understand why many in England are furious that Fifa consider the poppy a political symbol and have banned England for wearing it against Spain this week, but since a few live to exploit the flower for political ends, the Fifa decision is correct.
Before making the decision someone at Fifa would have undertaken cursory research into the subject. Searching Google for “poppy football” a few weeks ago would have returned this (now archived) result. I’m sure you recall; a banner at Celtic Park, which didn’t make the news on the day it was displayed, or on the next day, was badgered by someone into the news on day three. Celtic were the target of that exercise, the England team are now collateral damage.
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!!Bada Bing!! says:
9 November, 2011 at 14:58
Imatim- Do we know who was on the panel? He should give Mark Guidi another call and blow the whistle(sorry) on the lot of them.Thats what happens when you tell the truth.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
2010 Never Again
I don’t think we’ve heard the last of this (no details yet of who was on the committee – although the sound of bleating could clearly be heard coming from the committee room)
PS Paul McBride wasn’t Steven Craven’s lawyer
harryhoodsdugbitme says:
9 November, 2011 at 14:59
Livi – 3pm every second saturday? Please get us back there Celtic. HH.
IF Celtic played at Killie on a Saturday at 3pm and it was streamed live do you think the stands would be as empty as we have seen in recent years?
Football on a Sunday isn’t working and the clubs could make more money out of bodies through the turnstiles and some cash from the Dutch TV model.
What is happening in other smaller countries? We need to stop looking at England and look at countries with populations similar to ours. The EPL is a freak. There is no other league like it. The Spanish league is close but due to the level of competition in England the EPL is the one most people are going to watch. Barca & Real are prone to bang in at least 3 goals against most teams. That league is losing it’s competitiveness. The EPL is a league full of teams who can beat each other most weeks.
The SPL needs to have passionate fans and full houses to even be viewed by people in Scotland. Fill the grounds!
LB
TBB @ 14.49
Treat with caution – I have read the same thing somewhere else in the last couple of days. That could only be CQN, KDS or RTC. (or other, less likely sites…………….)
I am not saying it’s not true just that I have already seen it somewhere else recently. Will try and find where.
philvisreturns says:
9 November, 2011 at 14:52
Yes he left or was he pushed?
Seems they have a cheaper alternative in Jardine although I think its pushing it a bit handing out Lucozade . Asdas just round the corner and their branded irn bru is priced less than bottled water
(thumbsup)
The Battered Bunnet says:
9 November, 2011 at 12:56
Excellent post TBB.
I too grew up buying poppies, it is very sad indeed that the symbol of “never again” is used to almost celebrate a victory, a symbol now used as part of the British triumphalism, to satisfy the ego, “remember who won” type of people, rather than lest we forget, never again. The forceful nature of people telling you you should wear a poppy, is very sad indeed.
It has been mentioned about showbiz/celebrities needin to wear the poppies and them coming in all different sizes and wore on various items of clothing including headwear, on the front of cars like a red nose – it is sad a beautiful symbol has been hi-jacked for something completely different to what it was intended to do.
Eddie Jordan choosing clothing so you could barely see the poppy during his employment with the BBC as part of F1 presenting team last year. One week he chose a shirt with red flowers so you couldn’t see it, the next week the poppy was no more than 5mm in size. Why not let the guy decide if he feels comfortable wearing one, rather than being forced – it is these stupid decisions that change the meaning of the symbol to so many. What kind of symbol tries to force someone from a different country to honour & remember the dead & injured soldiers of the UK, even when that person is from a country whose people suffered including civilians were killed by the army the symbol honours?
Very sad that it has been hijacked in this way, very sad indeed.
To all those who fought & died in WWI & II from all countries, may you rest in peace.
hh
bjmac
Mort: 9 November, 2011 at 14:48
I know, it really is incredible isn’t it?
All these indignant MPs, numpties calling radio stations and ex-Football Association employees– where were they on these previous occasions?
The icing on the cake will come from the England fans who, so outraged by ‘lack of respect’, will roundly boo the Spanish National Anthem on Saturday.
Irony?
this is the hun on Countdown (how appropriate)yesterday, WARNING STRONG LANGUAGE AND AN UGLY HUN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHdTweVG60o&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Imatim and so is Neil Lennon says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:00
2010 Never Again
“Whilst this was happening Tommy Burns’ team was being justifiably praised for the quality of football on display. The Scottish Cup success that earmarked the end of McCann’s first full season in charge unfortunately was the only silverware that was won under Burns’ guidance, but nobody could argue that McCann was not backing his manager in the transfer market.”
————————————————————————————————————————————————————
I remember getting back on the supporter’s bus after we had dropped points at Easter Rd.
Fergus was interviewed and stated that there would be no more money available for transfers, this was only a week after Tommy Burns had highlighted that we needed 2 more players if we were to stop the huns equaling 9 in a row.
We have a lot to thank him for but his policy at the time aided thems achievement.
TBB
MRC administrators was sold to Duff & Phelps Ltd. on the 31st of October 2011.
I have it on good authority that MRC administrators had previous links to a certain Mr Whytes empire.
If this is the case there is no way in the world that MRC would be allowed to be administrators for Rangers. It would not be ethical.
MWD
TBB – from KDS on Nov 6th. (note origin)
6 Nov 2011, 12:01 PM Post #5728
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from a rumour site
03 Nov 2011 16:44:11
Just spoken with a colleague who has been told from MCR directly that they will be appointed as administrators of Rangers within the next 7 days.
MCR have spent £50k on additional security across their UK offices in anticipation of this.
Rangers also open negotiations with SFA back in June about the option of using Hampden for games should they not be out of admin across fixture dates.
Unless the prepack is contested we should be in and out quickly although a 10 penalty as a minimum will be applied.
Players are ‘super creditors’ which means that they do not have to be sold and their contracts must be honoured by the new owners which is will be Whyte unless some other investment is brought in to the new debt free club.
Doesn’t sound like a rumour.
Gents this is an email doing the rounds at the moment, don’t no how much truth is in it.
Cheers
Gary
Can someone post a link to last year’s poppy debate? It would save a hell of a lot of typing.
Imatim and so is Neil Lennon says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:00
If anyone ever needed any evidence about the shenanigans that went on at the SFA, they need look no further than the redevelopment saga – how many other clubs (in Europe?) were forced by their national association to hand over money to them whilst they were renovating their own ground?
I recall at the time that McCann wanted to put temp seats behind both goals, with the terracing being shortened, whilst the Jungle was redeveloped. Many other teams have done similar (in fact Hampden Park itself was redeveloped in such a piecemeal fashion.
Strange that only one club, AFAIK, have been placed into an enforced tenancy agreement with the people doing the enforcement.
Ten Men Won The League says:
9 November, 2011 at 14:59
TBB@14:49
A very interesting post indeed, particularly the part of ‘newco’ playing at Hampden
We got charged 600k in 1995 for renting that midden,pro-rata how much is that in 2011?
!!Bada Bing!! says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:12
Almost felt sorry for the poor chap.
Imatim,
Are you ok? Ordinarily I’d take up the battle, maybe put you down a bit and so on. Such is the nature of these things. But your reaction to me is too bizarre to bother with. So you don’t agree, but is this how you normally behave.
Pretty sure I’ve been around CQN longer than you, and I don’t do FF like you, so not feeling any need to justify myself to you.
Hope you’re ok and you limit this anger to the internet.
For the record Auldheid has posted several times on this subject in the last 24 hours. He’s normally quite able to look after himself and I was not engaging with his conversation with Aw Naw, instead I was engaging with posts he made last night. Now given that my post was addressed to him, I’ve got to wonder why you’re misunderstanding them and then flying off the handle (again). Whist I’m confident I read it correctly, if Auldheid wants to pull me up I’m certain he’ll do so and he’ll do so with civility and get the same courtesy in response.
Imatim, I won’t ever engage you again. I don’t read your posts, and that’s no flounce, they’re just not interesting to me. Carry on though, that’s what the blogs about, but, for your own sake give your crusade a rest… i’m not convinced you’re handling things too well and I’m not going to encourage your destructive behaviour, nor are you (of all people) going to put me off.
VP-Its the skoolz you know.
The SFA appeals Committee
Chairman: Campbell Ogilvie
Vice Chairman: Derrick Brown
Members : Colin Holden, Finlay Noble, Martin Ritchie, Eric Riley, Alan McIntosh
Hail Hail
Can anyone come up with an effective detergent to these laundry related puns that are clutterin’ up the ole bhlog?
DBBIA/Port Sunlight CSC.
MRC=MCR
MWD
some Passchendaele images…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/gallery/2007/jul/12/internationalnews1
Auldheid,
How does the recent Craven judgement sit with you ?
Has it dented your confidence in the new SFA disciplinary process written by Paul Mc Bride ?
Do you know if Eric Riley was even present ?
If not then do you know how we can find out ?
Hail Hail
!!Bada Bing!! says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:17
The SPL have already prevented a club competing in the SPL whilst ground-sharing with an SFL club.
dirtymac-good point sir.I think we know all existing rules will be re-written soon eh?
Moonbeams WD. \o/ Supporting Neil Lennon 100%. C’mon the hoops. says:
9 November, 2011 at 15:14
The MCR sold to Duff&Phelps is not the same as Merchant Corporate Recovery that Whyte is still a director of. Just in case you’re getting the two confused.
If the SFA didn’t feel the need to ask the huns for compensation when they took the Scotland manager mid qualifying campaign why does anybody think they will bother asking them for rent in to the same ratio as what Celtic paid?
Paul67 et al
I never thought it would be possible for anyone to undermine the original message of the poppy, but the likes of Blair, Brown and now Cameron have succeeded in doing so. Aided and abetted by the likes of the SFA, the SPL and now the craven FA. There was an interesting little phone-in debate on Radio 5 this morning, with callers making some good points for or against England wearing the poppy on their shirts for their friendly against Spain. One of the main arguments in favour is that wearing the poppy somehow expresses “pride”. Wear your poppy with pride is the message, the opposite of its original purpose. The other argument is that of “tradition”, as if football has traditionally wore poppies annually, since 1918. Others on here have demolished that particular argument. The only tradition I can find is the targeting of football, in 1915 and, now to do their bit. A working-class sport then, and in many respects still now. As the war grind to a halt in 1915, along with volunteers, conscription was introduced to make sure the masses contributed to the carnage, and be part of it. Had it not been for Britain’s part in defeating Fascism and Nazism in 1945, (the rise of which can be directly linked to 1918) Britain’s role in 1914-18 would be seen for exactly what it was, a squalid, murderous Imperial conflict. The use of the poppy today besmirches the memory of those that died, not just in Flanders Fields but anywhere in that God forsaken conflict. It has been fetishsized and politicised beyond recognition, and that is a source for shame. Not pride.
How can you have guys on Committees such as this ,when it is obvious you will get conflict of interest on who’s team has sinned or was sinned against?
Can anybody feel another Craven exclusive coming to the Sunday rags soon?
Weeminger
I’ll have to check my good authority on that one.
I’ll admit. I was suspicious of the numbers and value of company that were involved with MCR administrators for it to be one of the Whyte knights company interests.
MWD
The Battered Bunnet says:
9 November, 2011 at 14:49
According to posters here or KDS, there was an e-mail doing the rounds with the MCR rumour . The details were mostly the same but the 10th of Nov as a definite date is new.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15643295.stm
“The idea that wearing a poppy to remember those who have given their lives for our freedom is a political act is absurd.” says Mr. Cameron (Politician) with no hint of irony.
Never wore a poppy,never will.As I am not a FOLLOWER OF FASHION.Slan
The MCR rumour emanated from the rangersrumours website
Hail Hail
Lennon n Mc….Mjallby says
You’re probably right mate,the idea of the huns paying their way is just ridiculous.HH
The fact that two members of the English Defence League are atop Fifa headquarters says much about where this symbol has gone I’m afraid.
Transparency and accountability at the SFA? There’s already been a few issues this season with officals and the disciplinary procedures. Then we get the Steven Craven decision. I would be interested what grounds he made his appeal and on what grounds it was refused.
In addition, what criteria was used to give naismith a 2 match ban for violent conduct after not being sent off, then the same committee increasing Kris Commons ban to the same 2 matches for a bad tackle which was also punished with a red card at the time.
Violent Conduct = 2 match ban for huns player
Bad Tackle = 3 match punishment for Celtic player
Bad tackle (as bad if not worse than KC’s) = yellow card for huns player
I was (and still am) all for giving the SFA a chance to demonstrate their transparency and accountability and delivery of punishments equally, when do they plan to start?
hh
bjmac
Hamiltontim, bjmac
Thank you.
To wear or not to wear a poppy should be a matter of free personal choice. The wearing or not wearing it should never be some Norman Tebbit ‘cricket test’ of an individual’s patriotism.
A wee thought. How many of those who put a pound in a collection box , don a poppy and flaunt their imagined patriotism would ever make the effort to lobby their MP or write to the press advocating better wages, conditions and pensions for our servicemen and their all too often bereaved families.
Perhaps somewhat smugly, never having worn a poppy, I can say that I have.
Like beauty, patriotism can be in the eye of the beholder.