We’ve had a few free kick experts in modern times. Lubo was first. He could hit them, and score with them, with either foot. The man was a menace to opponents on many levels. He also taught us that hitting the ball as hard as possible into an opponent’s body, standard fare for Celtic in the 80s and early 90s, was a poor return from a dead ball situation.
Lubo clearly influenced Shaun but it wasn’t until Naka arrived that Shaun really found his grove. With right footed Maloney and left footed Nakamura lining up behind the ball keepers were forced to leave a vulnerable space at any centrally-located free kick.
I don’t remember any player scoring with three consecutive free kicks, an absolutely exceptional feat. John Guidetti is proving to be an exceptional player. From what I hear he’s also enjoying being a Celtic player, there’s been a meeting of minds on what is expected and what’s on offer.
This is a young player who has already learned a few lessons on football clubs and career management. He has the makings of a Celtic legend.
Those of you who weren’t there last night, make sure you see the goals. Four of them were exceptional.
Many thanks to everyone who has big on our auction for two debenture seats for the Inverness game on Saturday, courtesy of Celtic sponsor, Magners. Funds raised go towards building our forth kitchen for Mary’s Meals in Malawi, specifically for the 909 children who attend Chibwata Primary School in Dowa, which currently doesn’t have a kitchen.
Malawi is one of the poorest countries in the world, but……… things are improving. 93% of your money raised is getting to the projects on the ground, Mary’s Meals are now feeding hundreds of thousands of kids there each day, over 2000 of them in kitchens CQN readers have already built.
Kids who are fed at school there are able to attend instead of having to work for food – primary school attendance is up 30% after Mary’s Meals build a kitchen. As a result they all get a basic education, some of them are set on a road to a higher education and all have better chances in life.
The auction closes tomorrow. You will do nothing better today than get involved with this one, which you can do here.
Above link is now sorted….
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On Tonev
I think some recognition of cultural upbringing has to be taken account of.
It is one thing to be told cultural attitudes and be aware of them and quite another to actually experience them and appreciate just what the differences mean.
My wife and I were in the company of a lovely girl from the same part of the world as Tonev. Not same country but culturally similar.
We like her and we have many shared values but the other night she said something about ” blacks” that had my wife and I looking at each other.
Whilst we raised eyebrows the lady saw nothing wrong in what she said because she is only reflecting her cultural beliefs in which she has been surrounded from birth. It is how that culture thinks.
They are misguided but how do you change a culture but through experience?
So I think it possible Tonev honestly does believe he said nothing racist and is running into a clash of culture the experience of which might change him.
Nothing in life is clear cut and the sentence seems based on matters being so rather than taking proper account of cultural background.
In that sense there are grounds for appeal and a more balanced and conciliatory judgement for all parties.
Nimmo Smith’s judgement still rankles, c’mon Lawwell…..let’s establish your credentials as a Celtic man…….are you looking for trouble, you’ve come to the right place!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uaIpWQX0pg
So we don’t care if one of our players racially abused an opponent. It is more important that we protect the good name of Celtic. Also, he’s pish so send him back anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now calm down, no one Said they didn’t care, what the the debate is, does the SFA have proof, it’s not a case of whether he is pish or not, one man’s pish is another man’s Chris Boyd,
Rock Tree Bhoy
17:34 on 30 October, 2014
1) from the Miami Herald USA
“GLASGOW, SCOTLAND
Celtic winger Aleksandar Tonev was banned for seven games on Thursday for using racist language toward an opponent during a Scottish league match”
internationally this is bad news for us and could cost us plenty in terms of sponsorship if we dont defend and beat this slur on our name.
2)
Shuggiebhoy67
17:42 on 30 October, 2014
Jim White and Sky reports in indecent haste to besmirch the name of our club,so much so that they repeatedly show Stefan Scepovic as the guilty party on screen,cannae help themselves with White salivating at the thought and opportunity.,
InnocentUNTILprovenguiltyCFC
This has, sadly, been my point from the get go. We are being besmirched internationall,y within minutes of the Scoddish MSM distributing the results of the SFA findings.
If the SFA have no proof then surely there is no case !!!!!!!!!!
TD –
The SFA is not a court of law. They do not need to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. All they can and need do is weigh up all the available evidence and arrive at a conclusion.
In this case they believed the Aberdeen player, his captain and his manager. They did not believe Tonev.
He is entitled to appeal and he has gone down that road.
If we’re going to start shouting about SFA anti-Celtic bias and the Aberdeen player inventing the crime, we have abdicated responsibility and the moral high ground.
I detest racists.
The antithesis of CSC IMHO.
And/but would I accept an SFA decision based on sfa without question and suspicion? Errr no!!
And Tom Mc I don’t think this view should be viewed as me or others using a convenient cloak of paranoia.
The bassas really are out to get us, whenever possible.
That’s not say Tonev’s not guilty. And if he is, pap him.
HH jamesgang
James Forrest
Before I read that did you get my message last week on Facebook messenger?
If not e mail me. It’s important.
Right off to read your latest.
SFA are venturing on dangerous territory.
With the amount of simulation, diving, histrionics and sledging that takes place in the game today, a player can easily claim abuse of a sectarian, sexual or racial behaviour.
He called me a Fenian, Orangeman, Teuchter, Anglo Saxon, Limey or whatever.
Are suspensions going to be handed out without irrefutable evidence?
I can imagine Swally cliping every week that he had been called a fat, slimy slug, all of which are perfectly accurate BTW.
Did the SFA not come up with a Not Proven decision recently?
fourbhoys
02:22 on 30 October, 2014
It would be great to meet up with you bhoys. I’m up on the north side of Brampton. .. Dixie and sandalwood area..905 330 5071…
*I have a daughter that lives down the road from you….Dixie/North Park……unfortunately her boys are hockey players and would rather watch the Canadiens than the Celtic.
When we are heading down to visit them I always tell Mrs. TT to make sure the car doors are locked and strap the Kevlar on……Bramladesh is a scary place now.
Tom McLaughlin
“In Tonev’s case there WAS other evidence in the form of TV footage of Logan’s reaction to the alleged abuse and the fact that he immediately reported it to various parties.”
That is only evidence that Logan thought he heard something and was rightly annoyed about it. It is not necessary or, in fact possible, to prove Logan wrong but that does not mean Tonev dun it. Tonev may have said something similar but not racist. Someone else may have uttered the racist words and Logan thought it was Tonev. It is not necessary to believe that Logan is a vindictive liar in order to believe that Tonev MAY be innocent.
“I think it is very poor form for Celtic supporters to throw in the smokescreen of anti-Celtic bias and to claim that the whole thing is a fiction just to get at Celtic.”
The existence of anti-Celtic bias is something that you and I have both alleged on the pages of CQN before. It is poor form to throw it back at other posters. I did not see a single post claiming that the whole thing “was a fiction”. Can you point me to one that says that?
“Too many Celtic supporters seem to be suggesting that there is no absolute proof, so even if he did it, they cannot touch him. That to me is shocking.”
There is no absolute proof, if such a thing could ever exist. We have not even been furnished with proof on the balance of probabilities yet. We have no other evidence than he said/she said. God help anyone trying to judge on that basis.
Again, not one poster has said he did it but they can’t touch him. Your shock is based on a mis-reading.
“If Tonev loses his appeal, he should be sent packing, never to wear the hoops again.”
Agreed, with the one proviso that evidence is provided and explained as to how the verdict was reached. Justice needs to be seen to be done.
Our agreement on that eventual outcome would seem to be shared by every CQNr who commented on it. Who are you disagreeing with?
Tom McLaughlin
Not sure if you are talking crap to get a reaction ..if you did it work with me,,I have read back and nobody has said he is guilty and should be let off because there is no evidence.
If you are going to brand a player a racist I would think you should at least have evidence….it would appear in this case it was one word against the other,
tom mclaughlin
I know who the SFA is very well trust me, they are a law unto themselves and this is a man’s livelyhood they are messing with here, my point is they may end up in a court of law, I know if I didn’t say anything to someone and a kangaroo court turns around and says I dis, well thay had better be ready for a posy of lawyers reaming their arses.
We as a support seem to be saying . . . We know he did it, but you can’t prove it, so let it go.
Absolute nonsense.
The Tonev verdict is very strange. Apparently no witnesses or corroborating evidence yet the panel were prepared to condemn a player as a racist with the long term implications for his career on the say so of the alleged victim.
What is to stop someone from inverness on Saturday alleging that lets say Guidetti has abused him in a conversation involving only the two of them.
Even stranger when you consider that when a player from another club was observed on national tv sticking the head on an opponent it couldn’t be proven. Millions of witness = no proof, no witnesses = guilty.
If Tonev were guilty then the punishment would be just but if Celtic believe him then that is good enough for me and they should fight thks all the way.
Tom McLaughlin – have you ever misheard somebody and been convinced you heard what you thought despite their protests? Is there a reason to believe Tonev is lying?
Question for the rules experts.
What if Celtic, believing the player, decide to play him this week to show support for the lad?
Will there be increased sanctions? Will it come to a head?
Could we be headed for a flag type showdown?
Leftclicktic @13.32
Brilliant
Also delighted that this sacred place is nearly back to its brilliant best with plenty of good Celtic chat.
Any other way you can contribute to the Mary’s meals appeals. Think there was a PayPal link last time.
HH
I personally do not believe Tonev is a racist as much, as much I do not believe he is good player.
Anti-Celtic bias aside, this Tonev punishment is very strange. I know a black player in Scotland once played the racist card but, generally speaking, the objects of racism do not do so. That being the case, I rather suspect Tonev is guilty. My suspicion is just that. I have no evidence whatsoever. What evidence do the Scottish Footballing Authorities have? Does anyone know? Is there any evidence? Like I said, very strange. I will follow this one with interest.
JJ
PS Who dealt with Mr Tonev? SFA or SPFL?
Fourgreenfields
I hate to go all linguistic twice in one day …. but ‘proof’ is sufficient evidence for the truth of a proposition to be concluded.
What we are discussing here is evidence …. the SFA obviously had some evidence (whatever the player said) ….the only question is the standard of evidence required and the sufficiency of the evidence provided.
One often hears about the standards of proof required … in a civil court case, it is a balance of probabilities (basically 51% wins), while in a criminal case, the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt (no mathematical equiivalent, but certainly much higher than 51%).
The difficulty is that this is not a court proceeding, but an administrative or quasi-judicial body exercising an administrative or quasi-judicial function. There are no set rules/standards that all such boards have to follow; the standards and procedures change from board to board depending upon such facts as the nature of the issues, and the consequences (normally, the more serious the consequences, the higher standards of evidence required, and the greater the legal protections afforded).
As a result, administrative law (the body of law govening these quasi judicial bodies) is often quite vague and amorphous (often described as trying to nail jelly to a wall).
I dont know enough about the make up the particular body, or the administrative processes to comment on its particular workings.
But thought this explanation of how these sorts of tribunals might assist somewhat in the discussion.
Even a bad lawyer could drive a coach and horses thru the SFA Rulebook.
tom mclaughlin
Who said “. . . We know he did it, but you can’t prove it, so let it go.”
Pheersy –
So I have a different point of view and that means I am just looking for a reaction? Brilliant!
It is more than one player’s word against another. There is also the evidence that the Aberdeen player immediately went to the referee to report the alleged abuse and told his captain and manager. The TV footage of his reaction to Tonev is also evidence.
It is not proof beyond reasonable doubt but as I have said, the SFA do not need absolute proof, and in that, they are no different to the English FA, Spanish FA, FIFA, UEFA or the local Bowling Club.
mike in toronto
Thanks for the explanation , if the SFA have evidence lets see it .
If the SFA has evidence to corroborate the complaint then a long ban for racism is justified.
If the SFA has no such evidence then a guilty verdict is entirely unjustified.
Tom
“In this case they believed the Aberdeen player, his captain and his manager. They did not believe Tonev.”
Neither the captain or the manager claim to have heard what Tonev did or did not say. They merely brought the fact that he had a grievance to the attention of the officials,
It adds nothing to the quality of the evidence to say the opposite e.g. “they did not believe the Celtic club, management or captain who all said that they backed Tonev because they did not hear anything.
At root, you have to have more than one man’s word against another man’s. If Tonev had a history of racist statements, that would strengthen the case. If Logan had a history of false allegations or simulation that would weaken the case.
Neither of these applies however as there is no such history. There is no reason to believe or disbelieve the verdict as yet. There is a reason to wait for more information before making definitive announcements.
The Prison Guards believed that charging the Birmingham 6 was sufficient reason to believe they were guilty.
I can only think another sheep was in earshot of the alleged comments. One players word against another would not be enough. Didnt Tonev say the charges were going to be dropped and that Celtic had studied several different videos and found nothing amiss?
Were 2 sheep at the SFA hearing?
If Celtic back the appeal they cant be convinced of the racism charge.
Kris Boyd clearly makes head contact, witnessed by crowd an TV cameras – Not Proven
Tonev incident not captured by any cameras or witnesses other than the player involved – 7 game ban
Not saying he’s innocent, guilty, right or wrong but just highlighting the decisions made by Scotland’s football authorities
If someone said something racial towards me, after giving them a slap, I would have walked of the park,
Tom the point I was making …nobody said “We know he did it, but you can’t prove it, so let it go.” your words…
SFA once again put the boot into Celtic and in fact Scottish football. They need to show clear evidence beyond ” he said , she said” to convince us that this is the correct and just punishment.
I recall Andy Goram upon saving a penalty from Pierre Van Hoijdonk , clearly mouthing you effing black bas**** (imo) – this wasn’t even brought to review.
SFA are bigots and hate everything Celtic stand for. (fact)
excathedra44
17:18 on 30 October, 2014
This is a judgement against Celtic,Tonev is just a useful excuse.
7 game ban for Tonev- 5 games for playing for Celtic and the other 2 for the offence
why a 7 game ban ,
did he only racially abuse him a wee bit !!
sorry if its “racist” he needs to go .
James Forrest
Good article that requires supporters to make their clubs aware we have had enough rule dodging.
I posted on the possible effect of such on the end of this season play offs at
http://www.tsfm.scot/harper-macleod-and-lns/comment-page-30/#comment-33405
This is not just a Celtic support issue, indeed other clubs are more likely to suffer more than we are, but financial fair play and rigorous application of club licensing is the only answer to a secure future for Scottish football.
SFA reform has to be a precondition of ST renewals just as no admittance of Sevco to SPL was two years ago.
SFA once again covers themselves in shame! Celtic need to go for the jugular , not only to clear Tonev and the Celtic brand , but to get to the route of how such a damning , damaging ruling can be made without clear evidence.
Time for Celtic to make a mockery of SFA…again!