Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Who would win in a fight between Super Sallary and Dolly Parton?
http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/931229/9066b478a4/TEST/TEST/
Dark Side bemoans share price:
“Admin 2 and, possibly another liquidation event.”
——
“There was no first liquidation event – behave yourself”
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“My empty seat is a statement of intent, I am prepared to face the consequences of this.”
Just dropped to 27p. Something’s happening.
Livibhoy-something’s got to give over Govan way.I think Wallace might chase Durrant (90k a year for putting the cones out ffs), Sally will say if he goes i go,see ya later!!
Gordon_J
I was only trying to be helpful.
Good afternoon & Hail Hail to all bhoys & girls. Long time lurker, 1st post. 1st class site, 1st class 1st club, 1st class support. Thank u Paul67, enjoy reading all posts and you do keep learning more about our wonderful club. HH.
I thought that when the price plummets King would step in and buy on the cheap, then noticed two zombies on twitter if anyone buys 30% they have to make a 12 month high offer of 91p to every other share holder :)) (allegedlly) so doubt the “glib shameless liar” will be doing that.
Sale & Leaseback!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gavcfc79,
A very warm welcome to you.
HH.
I look forward to when the entire very new company thingie is worth £18.88 – in total.
At the £19.67 mark I may a load of the stuff – proper bog costs a fortune these days so it would be a cost effective and fitting tribute.
HH jamesgang
MyIphoneIsWorthMoreThanYourClubCSC
An Erchie related story – kinda.
I was at the WC in Spain 82. After we were papped out by Russia in the final game, a rather “tired n’ emotional” group of us ended up in the foyer of the hotel where the BBC were stayin.
As Archie passed by he (on reflection probably, quite rightly) gave us the bums rush and never even had the “decency” to decline our offer of a swally.
We were still analyzing this amazing social faux pas, when a bottle of whisky was set at our table. Using our best Spanglish we determined it had been delivered by the certain beared, long chinned Englishman sitting at the bar, who subsequently joined our company and had a rip roarin time.
Yes, my view’s of Jimmy Hill changed totally that night.
So, indirectly, thanks Archie !
Response to suggested reports that Wallace doing great job at sevco:))
“Great job. Cash running out, share price plummeting, redundancies imminent. I’m thinking ‘patsy.’
gretnabhoy
16:15 on 10 January, 2014
I am just glad that I never took up that option to. Buy £25,000 worth of shares when they were first advertised for TRFC int. :). :)
How relieved do think I am, I was in for nearly £300k, in various identities if course.
More laughs from Sevco share site;
Market Capitalisation £18.88m
Is someone having a laugh with this or is it genuine?? 1888
HH
gavcfc79
Welcome aboard
Monagham1900
“My empty seat is a statement of intent, I am prepared to face the consequences of this.”
Or his erse is too big to fit in it? Your source was unattributed. Wasn’t sometime in their youthful management team by any chance?
YousDoWaddlingAwayCSC
HH jamesgang
BFSDJ will analyse the share prices drop live on Radio Snyde.
Is it time for a post about the Efficient Market Hypothesis? I think it is.
The Efficient Market Hypothesis broadly suggests 3 states of market knowledge when share trading.
The Strong form says that everything that is knowable is known to the market and the share price reflects that knowledge.
The Semi Strong form suggests that broadly speaking crucial information is known and is reflected in the share price but that there may be delays between knowledge being available and it being reflected in the share price.
The Weak form suggests there are long delays, the share price will take some time to reflect relatively common knowledge.
In very broad terms (and apologies to analysts and economists for the generalisms here) it is accepted that the semi strong form exists today. It is possibly to have knowledge that is not reflected in the share price, but not for long, and in fact there is legislation around insider trading that both tackles that potential inequity and gives credence to the very notion of a semi strong of the efficient market pervading.
Share prices spike up and down. New knowledge comes out, the market reacts. This can be dividend announcements, accounts published, quarterly sales reports. These spikes are generally pretty tame in percentage terms. It can be a catastrophe, an oil spill, a national event, emergency legislation, a trading partner or country’s collapse. These tend to be larger spikes as they immediately affect the longer term.
A steady increase tends to reflect improving incremental markers and reports and accounts. Deals and contracts signed, tenders won. Your pension fund likes these sorts of stocks.
A steady decrease can also reflect incremental trading information but it can also reflect serious concerns of viability of a business, especially a persistent trend. This is where insider information can be a real problem and almost self fulfilling in a company’s demise. Insiders getting out. What does that say to you?
In terms of Celtic the rise in the last year has been steady. We’ve had solid trading conditions. Champions league, player sales, and another crack next year. We’re at a multi year high price. (That’s armageddon for you). That’s the explanation, no spike with rumours we’re off to the EPL, no collapse on spurious land deal bluster. That’s the semi strong market in operation.
Now rising up the leagues you’d expect the trend in Govan to be upwards. A big season next year, EPL 2 by any other name, full of ex SPL teams, and most likely Hearts. But no, decline continues. Is this with insiders heading out? Green, Ahmad etc? But those shares were being hoovered up in the AGM vote race.
I’m not here to offer the answer to this seemingly interminable decline, just to throw in some gibberish while I drink my coffee that the market does not see a good future here. The market is semi strong, it pretty much reflects knowledge, and the length of time over the decline suggests there’s no secret boon that’ll be released when the bottom pickers have snapped up their 28p shares.
My guess is that the decline for the floated company is irreversible. Recent rumours of newco rules don’t help. They may help that indestructible enigma that is ‘Rangers’ but its owner ain’t going to be RIFC PLC.
Bampots, prepare.
two wee comments from TSFM
————
Timber !!!
16:03:44 27.01 621 167.73 O
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Threefurrapoun’ is so last week
gavcfc79
Welcome to CQN.
The watter’s lovely – jump in!!!
HH jamesgang
BlantyreKev,
So The Rangers International (new and improved, but still the original club honest) shares have fallen because the market has a semi?
brilliant- market capitalisation value £18.88m haha dunno if true but making me laugh
jamesgang
16:28 on
10 January, 2014
Wasn’t sometime in their youthful management team by any chance?
——
Some other FFer I believe!
!!bada bing!!
16:10 on 10 January, 2014
Code tor Premier Sports is ONEPOUNDFORJAN
You got a link thingy?
ThanksinadvanceCSC
Wheres ra deeds
Hh
An Archie classic
I look, almost affectionately, at probably my most illustrious gaffe, when years later I pronounced on a Turkish team of 100 per cent Islamic background by saying, “They prefer to be known by their Christian names.”
BB thanks for the premier code heads up.
Whit a dilemma. Watch the game or buy 3.57 sevco shares.
Paupers………………HAW:-)
Thank you Llads for the welcome, just a thought on a striker, Shane long? Out of contract at end of season. Seems to score way both feet & a decent header of the ball when given chances.
I would think it would be hard to reduce the expenditure of the new Rangers if they try to get rid of Tempelton and Shiels for example both have contracts and if not offered a good settlement they just need to sit tight.On getting rid of Fat Sleekit Ally it is exactly the same the only way forward is for Ronnie and Reggie to start leaning on those they want to unload.H.H.
Gordon,
Yes. A strong one if you’re a Tim.
Kitalba, my views on openness and accountability are not selective. The principle is sound, but I could well see the point of a councillor who couldn’t find out what secret societies his fellow councillors belonged to for years taking umbridge at being asked to declare his football allegiances to satisfy the same secretive sectarian schemers.
I think 28 pence is way too high.
Everyone who bought shares in 1994 could have made the same profit as Fergus. Pro rata of course.
Jamesgang
Ha ha, armbands on.
HH.
Sun 12th Jan Antalya Winter Cup Celtic v Who Cares Premier Sports 16:30
Their Share price is down to 27.1 as of 3 minutes ago.
The share price reflects the market view of a company’s financial performance and future expectations. They have had over 12 months to bring their costs in line with their income – it is only getting worse as the current incumbents line their pockets.
blantyrekev
16:28 on 10 January, 2014
Get you Sir! Someone listened at school. All joking aside, v interesting read.
Is is true you advised Scorsese on his recent film Wolf of Wall St and soon-to-start filming Waifs of Edmiston Drive?!?!?
HH jamesgang
BlantyreKev,
Never did understand shares and markets – is this what they mean by a bear market? Or is it all bull?
Maybe chuck was right and value is only 5.5m