Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Celtic sold two players for more than the valuation of Sevco.
bournesouprecipe
I care, would love nothing more than beating 2 Turkish teams in Turkey! It would shut a few mouth peices up that’s for sure!
Or maybe craigy was spot on at £1
An Tearmann
15:35 on
10 January, 2014
So Dean Shiels is looking to have his contract paid,I am sure £200K pay off is cheaper than the £300K+ they would pay for his contract
(yeh yeh i know,bill paying has not become habit forming)
what bout their keeper from last year and his court case for a payment,Neil Alexander.
I wonder when the ringfencing( a la Martin Bain) will start?
another Day another 38k doon the swanny
HH
About 2k of that 38k will have been trousered by super dooper ally, or has he finally negotiated the contract that he REALLY wanted and not THAT 1 that he signed without even lookin?
Was he duped as well?
Has 1 of those…..erm…..journalists that provide their newspapers with all these scoops and “exclusives” paid him a wee visit to ask?
They MUST want to go the same way as the last lot that resided in mordor……if….and by looks of it….when they do, does the handover of the elusive deeds to rfc3 then make the waters toooooo muddy for who really owns them, tooooo much of a problem to get them back in their possession?
They can do what they want to themselves and good enough for them, but the fact that not 1 of the msm actually report the real situation about things like M’Coists contract really winds me! grrrrr
Gene’s a Bhoy’s name
16:40 on
10 January, 2014
And here’s the thing. If it dropped to that, the share price would be circa 8p. So initial investors could still make 8x their investment (although unless they were idiots they’d be long gone).
A Ceiler Gonof Rust Supporting Justice and Freedom for the Dam 5
16:33 on 10 January, 2014
Be careful when you subscribe for £1 that you don’t find yourself in a contract with a 30 day notice clause .
And pay £9.99 for 2nd month plus connection of £10 etc
see below
The channel costs £9.99 per month with a 2 months minimum contract. A £10 connection fee also applies.
Alternatively, you can opt for a 12 months season ticket saving you nearly £35.
Please note that all subscriptions are ongoing unless you decide to cancel by calling us 30 days before next payment is due.
The Onlooker
Blantyre Kev
“Bampots, prepare”
I believe these were the opening lyrics to the 1987 pop classic by Tiffany, a revival of a Tommy James number from, appropriately enough, 1967:-
“Bampots Prepare!
That’s what they say on CQN
And watch how they die
They don’t understand
And so they’re
Chorus:
Drowning just as fast as they can
Rubbing bits of one another’s hand
Tryin’ to get away into the light
And then they put their arms on Sally
And they tumble to the ground
And then they say
I think we’re f***ed now
There doesn’t seem to be any White Knight around
I think we’re f***ed now
The bleating about Hearts is the only sound”
Theydon’twritetheoldones csc
Shell, shell, shell!!!
As Big Shhshawn would have said before he went over to the dark side ( football- wise….. No referendum stuff please!!!!)
HH
Jamesgang
PS gavcfc79 – if you arrive onto CQN with Shane Long as a joining present for the Hoops then I for one will make you v welcome Sir!!!
http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/931229/9066b478a4/TEST/TEST/
Raspberry et al Sunday’s game live furra pound……here that’s nearly 4 Sevco shares….
See Celtic this weekend
Joe Filippis Haircut
Did you get any pain relief bud?
HH
67Heaven … I am Neil Lennon, supporting WEE OSCAR..!!.. Ibrox belongs to the creditors
10:46 on 10 January, 2014
Do you think the LL will EVER realise that their sustained negativity on all things Celtic only makes everyone at our Club even stronger……..hahahahahahaha….silly LL
_________________________________________________________________________
No looking for a fight or anythinh pal but, ye talk one pile of p#sh. imo
The LL would die ‘over-night’ if the ‘bored’ grew a pair and banned them !!!
IF, Celtic came out and made an announcement along those lines….THEN, the club would be united as one against them, instead of taking 30 pieces of silver from them to display all the rags on the advertisement hoardings. imo
Incidentaly…what audience are the advertisement hoardings appealing to ?
The Celtic fans inside CP ?
The television audience ?
KevJungle
10:51 on 10 January, 2014
67Heaven … I am Neil Lennon, supporting WEE OSCAR..!!.. Ibrox belongs to the creditors
10:30 on 10 January, 2014
______________________
Hi my auld sparring partner.
If ye don’t mind ?
I think that the Celtic ‘bored’ ARE the only folk who could deal wi the corruption. imo
And, I think that the ONLY way that this could happen is, IF the Celtic support could shake themselves loose from the apathy that has engulfed them, for a variety of reasons. imo
Ye see, the trick is….for the Celtic support to hold a big smoking gun in the shape of a £ to the ‘boreds’ heids and give them the message that….until you(Celtic bored) deal with ALL the cheating AND corruption head-on, then, we(Celtic support), will not be giving you ANYMORE of these £ !!!
Simples – HH
_______________________________________________________________________
You’re not one I find myself agreeing with on any topic but on this occasion I feel you’re 100% correct
DontGetUsedToItCSC
Hail Hail!
oldtim67
16:38 on 10 January, 2014
Their Share price is down to 27.1 as of 3 minutes ago.
…..””..”….”……………………….
Still way too high.
Poster on CM , boy from Oslo , has been spot on with all our Scandinavian signings good and bad , saying the boy were after just now is top drawer ✅
Seen on TSFM
RIFC plc shares down 12.87% today to 27.01.
End game in sight?
the onlooker
16:43 on 10 January, 2014
A Ceiler Gonof Rust Supporting Justice and Freedom for the Dam 5
16:33 on 10 January, 2014
Be careful when you subscribe for £1 that you don’t find yourself in a contract with a 30 day notice clause .
££££££££££££££
May I check for info. Is that about a tv subscription that any seem too tempting to be true or is a pyramid scheme associated with a recently created ‘football’ ahem club???
HH jamesgang
tenaLadiesCSC
One empty ginger bottle will now get you one sevco share and three penny caramels.
Replay of Trabzonspor V Celtic now showing on Virgin Media Channel 551 for those that never got the chance to watch it lastnight.
SFTB nice one lol :-)) re Tiffany haha
Thunder Road ah dont let them make you grrr.Humpty was put together incorrectly from the start,kick back and relax..
Hail hail Celts
back to lurking. keep up the good debate
HH
The Green Man. Thanks for asking I got colchicine pills to take one every two hours I have only had one so to early to tell how good they are. H.H.
leftclick, 16:47
No, the ref will add another 7 mins
Broonie shoots wide……..
Joe Filippis Haircut
Take it nice and easy bud, hope they work for you:)
HH
Sftb- I prefer the original! :-D
How long before the huns stop singing the old Rick Astley classic….
Never Gonna Give You Up……lol
Go on, you want to add lyrics don’t you?
Lisbon Lions playing together after 25May1967? Hampden Park (early August1967).Celtic..3
Tottenham Hotspur…3. .??
theoriginalsadiesbhoy
15:02 on 10 January, 2014
I knew that I had made the mistake as soon as I posted it!
The great man himself told me about it!
Ah well, a wee mistake now and again proves I’m human;-)
The Green Man. Thanks fella. H.H.
O.G.Rafferty
16:56 on
10 January, 2014
leftclick, 16:47
No, the ref will add another 7 mins
———–
Aye but this time it looks like a bobby Tait doomed to failure attempt:))
Bada Bing
If .. The Guy is..Johannson.. the Mid Fielder …that the Nowegian Source is Talkin Aboot..
Then Ah agree
Go Get him..Neil..
and dump that Bum Ledley..
and Get a replacement fur Broonie, while ye ur at it…and we wull be guid tae Go..
Ah keep oan saying..
“Celtic’s Trouble ..lies in the Mid Field..No wi’ oor Strikers.”
Kojo
Still,Laughin
The Onlooker, thanks. I’ll check that out before spending my pound.
It’s comforting to know that one Celtic game versus Galatasary costs the same as a sevco football club.
leftclick, 17:03
I’ll settle for the same result!
Pukki scores……….
Here- if I’m getting premier sports for nothing why would I pay a pound to get it on Sunday?
Hive up the property assets to the plc.
Operating company tied into long term lease on ‘favourable’ terms.
plc becomes a property investment firm.
Operating company lives within the constraints of a newly imposed, lease dependent break even covenant by the plc.
plc has no obligation to the trading performance of the operating company, has a guaranteed income, rock solid balance sheet, and its shares will trade accordingly. It’s just another common or garden property co.
It’s really very straightforward. I’m surprised they didn’t do it earlier, but I expect they will in due course. Short of extraordinary change in the operating landscape in the next couple of years, it’s the only way the investors in the plc can get a return. It’s just a matter of getting the timing right.
You could get a Freddo for 28 pence.
Joe Filippis Haircut
Colchicine.
WARNING !
Elderly neighbour of mine takes Colchicine when his gout flares up. He was hospitalised last year having drank some grapefruit juice whilst taking Colchicine . It nearly killed him !
DO NOT EAT GRAPEFRUIT OR DRINK GRAPEFRUIT JUICE WHILST TAKING COLCHICINE !
TBB
but in that example would the operating costs be greater that it is today as they pay no lease at present so they would have to cut staff costs even further.
Gene’s a Bhoy’s name
17:15 on
10 January, 2014
They would no longer be required to pay maintenance etc for the stadium.