Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Witch Doctor required for ambitious project in Edmonster Drive. Successful applicant must have previous experience in resurrecting a Zombie Corpse.
Fenian sounding surnames need not apply.
We arra ra Peepul!
BSR
I reckon you could get a few Chelsea whoppers and flying saucers for that 28p, rather than spend it all on a Freddo:)
HH
!!bada bing!!
16:44 on 10 January, 2014
http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/931229/9066b478a4/TEST/TEST/
Raspberry et al Sunday’s game live furra pound……here that’s nearly 4 Sevco shares….
Ends up costing over £20, will just go to pub, that’s 8 pints
Forgot to ask go you know Paul T from Easterhouse?
Weeminger
Depends on the lease agreement -but if the maintenance liability was with the plc that would be reflected in the lease costs.
Doc 16.59
theoriginalsadiesbhoy has a freaky knowledge of all things Celtic. During conversations with him it is normal for him to refer to eg a throw in during a match against Kilmarnock in March 1964. He’ll be on in a minute to correct me. ” it wiz February ya choob!” He’s some kind of Celtic savant and cannae help himself.
;-)
Gene’s a Bhoy’s name
17:20 on
10 January, 2014
In that case surely nobody would ever do sale and leaseback but people do so there must be some benefits. Which I always understood to be that although you were now paying for the stadium you’re overall costs in relation to the stadium were reduced as well as getting up front money.
There isn’t anything to stop a celtic fan buying a controlling interest in the swine for about 6-9 million – changing the strip to pink, purposely signing the world’s worst players, converting the club to buddhism- I mean if you are worth 100 million, why not??
for our first European Cup win
love it !!
e=mc2 skiving at work
Finding worse players might be a problem. The rest should be a cinch.
e=mc2 skiving at work
17:23 on
10 January, 2014
Yes there is. As soon as you get to 30% share ownership you have to launch a takeover bid at a figure based on the 12 month high price. It would cost in the region of £40-50m to take control.
Raspberry-i know him well,i know he’s been unwell mate
Sevco have a current market capitalisation of £18.55m. Or 1.54 Flo in old money.
Ah well, it was a nice dream…..
Weeminger
they do and it can be the right thing if you wish to release capital for investment -the problem with the muppets at ipox is that they need the capital for day to day expenditure. A bit like another share issue. Until they get costs in line with income they are screwed.
Probably get the whole club for VVD next year
Sevco loses just under 30% of it’s alleged value in a year.
weeminger 17.26
Indeed that is so. Therefore the lowest price would be at least a year from today. If God spares them, as my grannie used to say.
;-) HH
I’m rubbish at sharing…. should I put my £20k savings on sevco.
Shirley its as safe as the big hoose :)
Cork is proud of Eoghan, from Cork Local Newspaper.
BALLINLOUGH young gun Eoghan O’Connell made his first-team debut for Celtic last night.
The 18-year-old defender — who was a teenage star here on Leeside with Avondale United, Corinthians’ Boys and Douglas Community School before getting a professional contract in Glasgow — came on for the Bhoys in a 3-1 win over Trabzonspor in Turkey.
O’Connell, whose father Damien is a former Cork City and Avondale player, made an impression in recent months with Celtic’s U19s in the UEFA Youth League.
It’s a new tournament, a mini Champions League, and Eoghan was one of just four Irish players to feature in the competition, where he faced Ajax, Barca and AC Milan.
Doutcha Bhoy.
emc2
What a xmas present eh…..Right you are now the owner of sevco
First thing….theres some all broon strips fur ye, and don’t forget they clown masks.
And by the way, ive arranged a wee visit to the Vatican, and don’t forget to kneel when the auld yin comes oot.
Wish I had 100 million, think of the fun
HH
South of Tunis. Thanks for the warning. H.H.
!!bada bing!!
17:28 on 10 January, 2014
Raspberry-i know him well,i know he’s been unwell mate
Retirement do on 24th. No details on venue, relying on a lump of a station manager for details.
TBJ 17.31
You’d get a better return if you hung the cash on a string in the lavvy.
Outsidelavvycsc
Good photo of Dirk showing us what he does best from last night
https://twitter.com/edwardrice1/status/421696399026044928/photo/1
If the Sevco shares continue to plummet unabated – will next week’s headlines read…………………..
Derry’s Walls Street Crash?
Raspberry -thanks for that,will try and make it along,will contact Ian D and see if he knows details mate ta HH
If you bought £500 worth of Sevco shares in the IPO, you’ve just lost £300 and a bus.
Archie Mac is a clever man and a good egg.
My favourite commentary memory is him corpsing live on air with the giggles every time Lopez Ufarte got the ball for Spain in the early 80s.
Not that I am advocating any economic criminal activity you understand, but CFC, using multiple proxies that are impossible to fully unravel, could buy a controlling interest right now in the Satanic 11 for less than the Victor Wanyama fee. I know were I’d like to see my transfer window money going this january. To some shady bank in the Caribbean.
Doctor
I just noticed the daily record are giving away free stickers for the spfl album.
It covers all four divisions of the league. Good that panini eventually recognised there is life outside the top division ;)
I think the price of a packet of stickers would buy you 3 or4 shares in the “only show in town” :)
Can i have raspberry …. ,
is that the badge guy ?
PS are you or Bada in that neck of the woods ? If so , I’m local and looking for a drinking hole since i’m barred from the ole gazebo AND the Admiral .
Sanna
Straw poll
I haven’t listened to Clyde FM in ages
Should I ?
Shouldn’t I ?
!!bada bing!!
17:36 on 10 January, 2014
Raspberry -thanks for that,will try and make it along,will contact Ian D and see if he knows details mate ta HH
Scott M keeping me posted
Great goal……. Amido
RSPCA in Bury need your help
Time to change your sign?
Mrs gene just gave 2 year old grandaughter £1 pocket money -you can buy 3 sevco shares for that i said to her mum.
doctor whatfor
17:22 on 10 January, 2014
He has a good memory for details.
Like I say, I knew when I put it up I put the wrong team, ah well.
It was a pleasure to get to ask Charlie about it, and remind him a lot of the support remember it was himself who put those crosses in.
Her mum replied i can get a fireman sam book for that -much better value for money