Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Doc
its the p&l they need to worry about or should that be pl
KK-I used to drink in a bar in Sauchiehall St most Saturday nights many moons ago,Ian Redford and some of his team mates were in most weeks.A really friendly decent guy,would always ask how our game was,very shy and i think he was actually uncomfortable with the huns and all that went with it.
Keevins is an equine buttocks !
” sevco are in a state of flux ! ”
Wwwaaaahhhhaaaaahhhhaaaa !
Fur Flux sake lol lol lol !!!!!
ToffeeTim
Spelling makes an L of a difference.
Just in to say….
_____________
jackie mac
18:25 on 10 January, 2014
HK
If an offer came in for lee Wallace ?
stop tittering at the back ?
____________________
Ootside Izzy – Lee Wallace is the best LB in the country
and, would become ten times the player he is at present
if Cellic went for him. imo
HH
Ajax wan doon.
Gene
Im sure the majority of zombies would think PL and P&L are one and the same
Dalziel : Celtic need Sevco as their stadium is three quarters empty every home game !! !!!!!!!!!!
More piggin propaganda !!
Sevco must be in the doo doo right enough !!!
Swally on STV – “Dave Narey is 2 years older than me.”
Raman back in the studio – “Aye, and he looks a lot younger !!!”
STV to be banned from ibrokes – CSC
Kev
Rubber toe martinez probably does not agree or he would not be trying to sign andrew robertson for everton atm
Lennybhoy, 17:51.
If your bro in law is coming to Derry.
Try Abbey B&B, abbey st. Derry. Only 1min walk 2 the Bogside.
Very popular with tourists, hope this helps.
HH.
TBJ Praying for Oscar Knox
18:47 on 10 January, 2014
_______________________
Ah, Martinez…another manager worth his salt who smelt a rat when he was being tapped-up by Cellic, afore we committed the cardinal sin and brought in BTM.
Smelt a rat in the sense that – to do the Celtic managers gig under PL’s watch, you would
have to be prepared to be a puppet. imo
HH
Doc
Was that the Porn Magnet who shafted Servo for 2.5 million oooofffftttt !
Sure he made a movie
1690 ways of screwing the system !
I think if went t@&£ up right enough !
Whats wi awe the green ties on Reporting Scotland ?
Mon the Galatasaray
Never ever thought I would type that :)))
Even Sally on Reporting Scotland had a green blouse on !!!
* doc
18:17 on 10 January, 2014
Jackie Mac, I’m listening too.
Seems Hugh Keevins never heard of Celts for Change as he thinks the Celtic fans didn’t know what was happening and didn’t organise themselves to oust the old board.
*
Was shouting what about celts for change at the radio myself when he said that.
Also regarding the price of shares and celtic fans chipping in to buy some, would that be
” sevco for small change” :) :)
SSB sevco propaganda machine in full swing. It really has to be heard to be believed.
After being taken for mugs not once,but twice, by the spivs. They’re still peddling the old “give them time” line.
Dalziel is just blindly loyal. HK makes my skin crawl, he is a strange bird indeed.
I know I don’t have to listen, but it’s perversely entertaining.
are these callers real people? They must be actors. Shirley.
Lennybhoy
the ibis in queen st belfast is clean reasonable and smack right in the town oh and only a fiver in a taxi up the falls stayed there a few times in the last couple of years
RIP Ian Redford who died today at 53.
Genuinely nice guy who I spoke to a few times after he retired from football and went into import and export business.
Never really had the mindset to be a real Rangers man.
Far too intelligent for the Neanderthals at Ibrokes.
He had much personal tragedy in his childhood.
Gone too soon…..such a shame.
KevJungle
The left back at PThistle looks a very good prospect.
Lee Wallace is tainted goods.
~SPF~
BREAKING Ex Rangers midfielder Ian Redford has died at the age of 53. Police say they’ve recovered a man’s body in a wooded area in Irvine.
Sad to hear the news about Ian Redford.
I remember watching a few battles in the
early 80’s between, Murdo n Ian Redford
also when IR went to Dundee Utd as well.
Sad to hear of his passing.
Ian Redford RIP.
ryecatcher-posted similar earlier,a real nice guy.He had no time for the baggage that went with the huns.
ScotPatsFan
19:05 on 10 January, 2014
_______________________
With respect – don’t you think
that we’ve had enough ‘prospects’
over the recent period ?
HH
Kevjungle
What a sad bitter wee world you live in.
There are a few like you who sit near me at Celtic Park every week.
Folk who live in a pathetic wee jealous world where criticising anyone in any authority or players who misplace a pass allows them to compensate for their sad little worlds.
Folk who know virtually nothing but think they know everything. Folk who have no idea of how to live with Celtic actually being successful when they do win and out manoeuvre their rivals.
For the record I believe Martinez would have loved to work at Celtic but sadly the opportunity was not offered to him.
I had the pleasure of chatting for 15 minutes with the guy at Celtic Park at Half Time during a match a few years ago. A charming modest guy who was full of appreciation if our club and its potential. It’s strengths and drawbacks.
Maybe your perspective is much better ‘evidenced’ than mine but I doubt it based on the other subjective rubbish you post.
I’ve asked this question before and the answer was something to do with the liquidity of the clumpany, but if the share price is dirt cheap then surely it could be bought for a song.
(That is if there is anyone out there willing to fork out, say £15million, for the clumpany.)
So if there are people willing to pay the money surely they’ll want arse to drop right out the share price???
~SPF~
Burnley78
19:09 on 10 January, 2014
______________________
Awe, did ye no get ma Christmas card ?
Soor plooms – CSC
Ryecatcher
Ref Ian Redford.
I agree based on my experience.
A good guy who made the most of his football talents and definitely seemed too nice and clever to play for Rangers.
The amount of fireworks at this GAL / AJAX is incredible
Not one word in the commentary about it
HH
KevJungle
With respects, what do you think of a player’s mindset concerning his on his own ability when he choses to play for a Div3 team in Scotland?
Not the sharpest tool in the box would be my conclusion.
And you think he’s proved himself????
~SPF~
weet weet weet(GBWO)
19:13 on
OMG someone is going to die, die I tell you
Sean Wright Philips on CQN’s Facebook page with a question mark against it.
~SPF~
ScotPatsFan
19:14 on 10 January, 2014
______________________
Well, like a lot of players I think his
mind was set by the color of the wonga
on offer. imo
HH
I too met Ian Redford and shared a drink with him. Far too pleasant and intelligent a guy to be a hun.
Good Evening Timland
RIP Ian Redford,a decent footballer who played in a very
average Rangers team.
Kevj……Lee Wallace, aye why no!!
Has the penny not dropped with oor wee shuggy on SSB that oldco would still be in SPFL if they weren’t corrupt…..
Really strange reading an article from Ian Redford recently about how depressing Xmas was for him when he remembered his childhood demons and his brother dying as a very young child.
Maybe it was a public cry for help.
Who knows?
I feel like crying now for a lovely human being, who it appears succumbed to his demons and took his own life.
What an intelligent man he was in conversation.
You’re at peace now son.
RIP Ian Redford