I spoke to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a man who wears his Republican heritage on his sleeve, about the hostile reaction to his comments on modernising the Celtic songbook a few months back. Phil found himself to be an easy target for conspiracy theorists who turned on him for issuing a request to an end of political chanting. I’m sure Neil Lennon will not find anything like the same reaction to his comments in the Sun today, but it remains to be seen if anyone listens.
Neil said, “It’s important that we put a general message out that these chants have no place around our club. To be honest, we are better than that as a club and we always have been, we just don’t need it.
“We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism. We have our own values and traditions but they do not include these chants. We don’t want them at matches and they must stop.”
This is not the first time Neil has given the same message this year. After his earlier comments I actually heard, “Who is Neil Lennon to tell me what I can and can’t sing? I’ve been going to Celtic Park a lot longer than he has.”
We are in a classic social paradox. The reputational damage of political singing is not felt by those who sing, and the risk of personal consequences arising for any individual singer is probably around 1%. And let’s be honest here, for all the supportive flags, banners and “I’m Neil Lennon” proclamations, is Neil respected enough to be listened to, or has he become a modern Che Guevara-poster boy?
Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.
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MWD
Yes, I caught his response and it was far better than my puny effort. I posted my shorter reply on the blog a while back.
I have not got around to commenting on the more detailed document like you did.
I am a bit short of time round about now- glad other people are doing more than my share.
PJBhoynyc
don’t know you could mail him as I am sure he will still
checking in with his stuff back home
An old friend used to tell he grew up on the Falls Rd in fact he told me every time I met him but I enjoyed his stories. Told me the B Specials used to stop people going to work on a Friday and if they had cheese on their piece they got a thump or 2.
God rest you Willie. YNWA.
WDH
Will do.
Cheers.
Just in, havent read back but delighted to hear that Doncaster fans are boycotting the home games while Diouf is there.
I had a wee question prepared for the hunfiltrators too.
It puzzled me that Rangers have been in 3 Euro finals and they rioted in Barcelona and Manchester but I never heard of any riot when they lost to Bayern Munich in 1967 in Nuremberg.
Why was this?
I can only conclude that :-
a) They were to busy Rallying and paying homage in Der Vaterland
b) The tellies were working
c) Naebody went because they were too ashamed to win the Cup-Winners Cup when they wurnae cup winners
Any other explanations?
sftb
Not think Nuremberg had enuff trials going on???
setting free the bears says:
17 November, 2011 at 22:00
Covered up by the press?
Kittoch
Is it the smell???
Just shows the depths they would go to last season and we couldnt rise above it.
SFTB
Media Haus?
;)
setting free the bears says:
17 November, 2011 at 22:00
They had heard about the Nurenburg Trials, they wanted to see if he was any good…..
Thumbsup
JD
On the subject of oh ah up the Ra
The green Brigade are more prevalant now that the Ra so why don’t they sing Oh Ah Up The Green Brigade oh Ah Green Brigade tha would flumox the SPL
@setting free the bears
personally, i would love to see Victor smash one in :)
jude2005 is Neil Lennon \o/
It shows them up for last year, because they welcomed Diouf into the no-one likes us we don’t care environment, Doncaster looked at a rebrabate who spat on a child and they said no.
Doncaster V Ratners
Its a given
Maybe they didn’t riot first time around because they are always late in establishing their traditions
They used to be ok with Hun now they are insisting we cannae say that
They only recently started walking down Garvachy road but its now a sacrosanct pastime
They only started playing tims recently but claim they have been doing so for ever
Rangers are The Ploughman’s Lunch of fitba, an invented tradition
Kittoch
Oh A Up The G B? Like that. I’ll have word with a friend of mine who’s in the G B.
Much as the input to this debate has been vigorous, intense, thourgh & transparent (all the things the proposed Bill is not) surely now it is time to call enough talk – we need action!
Effectively there seems to be two clear main positions:
(1) Give up on the IRA add-ons and the songs clearly and particularly dedicated to the IRA. Thereafter we mark the line and WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED.
(2) There is no add-on or song which can be deemed illegal and on this mark WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED.
(Nobody defends ” soon there’ll be no… / Sad OB” now happily very very rare).
Seems not such a big gap…unless you’re a Celtic supporter and by God can we create a chasim out of a crack.
What is common to both?
We will not desert our heritage, our history, the validity of our position, of our right to be and our freedom to express all of this to the world in the loudest most raucous way possible.
We belittle no one we celebrate ourselves.
I did not previously believe we were being specifically targeted but the evidence is now overwhelming. (There is no record of a team ever being reported to UEFA by the home association or authorities. None.)
So can we unite our forces? What is right for the greater good?
Those who support position (2) claim once the IRA add-ons & dedicated songs are gone the authorities will not rest there – I believe them. Anyone who doesn’t is naive.
This is a battle for suvival – we must not lose. The tactics of battle will determine our success. An army divided is half an army.
For all of our interests we have to unite, fans, management & board. There is no chance of unity starting off from position (2) – no matter my own personal point of view.
Position (1) has its weakness too: many people, not just those supporting position (2) have no faith that the board would hold the line and fight to protect everything else. Again my instinctive sympathy is with the doubters. I can’t be comfortable the Board have the stomach for the fight.
However position (1) seems the best way to initially get the whole Celtic family mobilized behind a common cause.
The Club needs to prepare and I’d suggest the way forward is:
The Club take the initiative and get all the supporter representatives together and all parties contribute to clarify boldly where the line is to be drawn and that line must not be much more generous than position (1) – if at all. A joint agreement as to how the club & supporters will effect ‘self-policing’ should also be settled.
The Club should then openly publish our position as an addition to the Club Mission Statement. The statement should include proclamation declaring the singing of songs celebrating the heritage & history of our story and the inter-twined Irish, Scottish & Glaswegian ancestory ARE NOT ONLY ALLOWED BUT POSITEVLY ENCOURAGED.
The Club must in addition make clear that the shareholders, directors and office bearers will defend to the last the integity of the club against undeserved and malicious attack.
I believe that such an initiative by the Club would reassure doubters like me (position 2), please and activate those who prefer position (1) and unite the official and unofficial supporter organisations behind them.
PL & NL have been foolish to have made the recent statements. All that was needed was to say all authorities were being helped with their enquiries.
That being said I hope for action once the ‘decisions’ by UEFA & SPL are published and it is reasonable for the Board to wait till then. But at that point the initiative must be taken and real leadership shown.
How about
Ooh ah up the HMRC
Say
Ooh ah up the HMRC
Go on GB sing it, don’t rise to their bait, you are in the right !
chasm even!
isnt amazing, we have the worst strike force in living memory, the defence has more bombscares than the Europa hotel in Belfast, we are 12 points behind them and bricking it going to a bunch of farmers in inverness
but our minds are taking away from it by the GB, maybe Peter Lawell is paying them?
fergus slayed the blues says:
17 November, 2011 at 21:02
It is all about getting even using any means possible by vindictive people.
StanCollymore Stan Collymore
by pdmccaffery
The FA. Brought out The PM & William to support the poppy. Brought out a temp typing a one line statement to denounce racism Enough said.
Sums it up
OK,…Im struggling here but,…The ONLY song of the type being discussed which I am uncomfortable with is the Wullie Maley song ….and the “and the IRA” add—on.
I think it ruins a fine….one of the finest Celtic tunes out there.
Nothing to do with IRA,…I just dont think anything outwith Celtic should be added on to a Celtic song. Particularly this fine song.
Thats it though…..
I may have missed it but I want to know what it is that those against the songs find so bad about them [ like that bad that it gets more media coverage than those illegal, UEFA sanctioned, sectarian songs]
ST- Who is bricking it from Inverness? Are you swallowing the media over here?
What do you lot think about the SNP’s ‘minimum price’ plans for alcohol?
My thoughts, and believe me I get incoherent most Fridays, is that in principle it is a good move. I realise that there will be a section of society harder hit than most (e.g. the poor) but the idea, at least, is a start at facing down the other big gorilla in Scottish society.
Maybe we wouldn’t be in such a poisonous situation if we, as a nation, didn’t drink so much alcohol. Just a thought.
I’m not wanting to discuss politics.
*dons asbestos suit*
neveralone says:
17 November, 2011 at 22:18
I would add to that an implicit or explicit challenge to the huns to do the same.
cat/pigeons.
But whatever the tactic I do think we need to take the initiative, club and support together.
the bould bhoy
that we sing them!
could sing clff richards xmas no 1’s and have the same response from them!!
Auld Neil…
Know where your coming from but…
I would keep clear of that mob except when they are on the same pitch.
Our association with them through The Old Firm is doing us so much harm.
Never mind them – the initiatives are to be all home grown.
Good evening bhoys is Vman about.
Hail Hail
Blackpoolbhoy
And your blaming the Green Brigade for what?
That’s a sweeping statement mate!
Probably covered and touching wood here – but at 6 points clear – what’s the thoughts on travelling to Dingwall twice next season?
The famous Ross County?
Can’t log in much these days apart from a daily spy due to heavy workload….
Al
neveralone says:
17 November, 2011 at 22:18
Superb post ,also agree about the Old Firm tag- guilt by association
Never a Lawwell —basher but when I think of the money that guy is on,… to a job most people of his equivalent ability would do for nowt…..and yet he appears to be doing nothing positive in my eyes to even attempt to put up a fight in a war against us.
….And then Lenny is rolled out to echo his master’s call.
Honestly whit the Frig is gaun oan in there ?
My faith is waining Peter.
For a long time I would rather support a truer Celtic, a less sanitised Celtic, a fans’ Celtic.
A Celtic with players fighting for the jersey again.
Your capitalist,….forelock tugging, bullshitting PLC is grating……now.
Almost had it.
I want to see some fight in our corner. I want more than soundbites and promises.
We are Celtic FurrChrissake
I find the whole timing of this issue to smack of irony inside and all around.
This present establishment doesnt have a clue what democracy is – doesnt have a clue.
And neither do some on this blog.
Some on this blog agree with the British Government that democracy is allowed to have two faces – depending on who is deciding on it.
this whole storm has happened in and around remembrance sunday.
Lets strip it down its bones to get perspective on what is actually happening here;
The deceased from British Army past and present has just been celebrated, decorated and respected, in towns and cities all across ‘Britain’.
Within those being celebrated are those who helped by force, Britain at one time or another occupy around one third of the globe. They brutalised and murdered the indigenous people in order to do so.
One of those countries was Ireland and in a battle that has raged in one form or another for over 800 years.
Now, you can celebrate those who successfully took over that country, those who beat and killed the indigenous people who dared to speak in Irish, play an Irish sport or do anything Irish.
You are allowed to be celebrated for ethnic cleansing.
They get to honour their dead, in public, and are allowed to completely airbrush the historic facts which have proven their was homocidal maniacs, murderers, and humans rights abusers involved in every single ‘war; they either perpetuated or joined in within a genuine defence of something or other.
Within those celebrated, are those who killed in illegal wars and within immoral wars.
Every single one of them was faught on someone elses land, in someone elses country.
They are allowed to enforce these celebrations on everyone.
Now, I think we have clarified there are plenty of ‘wrongs’ as well as the ‘rights’ (eg world wars). They are fact not opinion.
Now rightly or wrongly depending on the person – an army was borne to defend its indigenous people from all forms of brutalisation does not exist in any military form anymore. They did things rightly and wrongly but it isnt involved in any acts of war anymore. It has no arsenal. It has no military structures. It is actually presently involved in peace and reconciliation – acknowledging the hurt and pain it caused upon its enemy.
In this warped world we live in, in this totally unjust, hypocritcal world we live in – you can throw the aggressor in my face for weeks on end, but a man can not even shout ‘ooh ah up the ra’ and he is arrested.
Tell me, why are my rights as a 2nd class citizens?
why does 1 side of that particular coin in our particular part of the world have rights. Why are they the only ones who are allowed in law, to be offended.
Why am I not allowed to be offended when the moral compass is totally in my favour?
Why do the war mongers get afforded every right possible, whilst the peace seekers and bridge builders have none whatsoever?
I am not allowed to say remembrance Sunday disgusts me – because whilst there were worthy causes, men who were mere puppets to their master, conscription, thousands of innocents from within – overall it represents the ‘British Army’.
However, there are those of you who will not afford me any sort of remembrance to my own people.
By the way I agree it should be outside of football stadia – I am not defending that.
However some of the comments on here have been disgusting.
How can someone with a straight face sit and type the IRA were child killers – at the same time as defending the poppy and what it represents.
Democracy does and can only have ONE face.
Alisdair mcLean
“Probably covered and touching wood here – but at 6 points clear – what’s the thoughts on travelling to Dingwall twice next season?”
OK if ICT get relegated to make room for you.
Dingwall’s a hard drinking town. Some of the boys might make a weekend of it.
evening gents
what time is the cqn watershed? just watched a clip – ‘gordon ramsey; hot to treat a lady’ class video that may just be available on ebaumsworld.com
HH
Kittoch
Could you please use sewer rat rather than d…..f next time? Ive just defragged!!Now ill need to do it again. GRRRRRRRRRRRR
MadMitch says:
17 November, 2011 at 21:31
‘Why have the figures / details for 2005-09 been lost?’
Perhaps because when they were compiled plot assumed they wouldn’t be published so didn’t put much thought into how to report incidents.
Once they realised the data was to be published they were more careful about what was recorded and how.