It was all so promising. 35 minutes in, eight Celtic attempts on goal, zero for Valencia. Even when Jeremy Toljan left the field for a second yellow card, there were still positives. We both know that last night’s game was never really about qualification for the next round, so too did Valencia, but it was a useful yardstick for where we are now and where we can hope to be in the summer.
Scott Bain was already established as first choice ‘keeper, but, without seeing much of him before joining Celtic, I think we can say this was the best performance of his career to date. He can play at this level and has been an excellent acquisition to the team.
Brendan Rodgers felt sore about Jeremy Toljan’s second yellow. The full back was pushed before falling into Guedes. It was harsh and the referee probably failed to spot the push, but Toljan was caught in the wrong position and his fall was unnecessary. Jeremy is undoubtedly an upgrade on Mikael Lustig, but small lapses like this is why he’s not at Dortmund right now.
The three central defenders were stand-out successes. Kristoffer Ajer will replay in his head, the header from the free kick and volley from the corner. They were chances to open the scoring but his all round play came close to Man of the Match levels.
I had written off Jozo Simunovic’s usefulness, largely, but not exclusively, on the basis of his fitful availability. However, he showed again last night that he can contribute to the team and deserves a place in the squad. Like Scott Bain, Jonny Hayes had the game of his life. He looked intent to make his mark at the Mestalla and did so.
Callum McGregor was my pick of the midfield players. He was forever tidy under pressure, operating with calm in very tight spaces. Scott Brown was at his best, although a rash tackle brougth an early booking that looked ominous. We got little from the more creative mids, James Forrest and Ryan Christie.
The entire Oliver Burke story was there to see. Great pace and strength, clumsy touch. There is an inverse relationship between speed and control.
Odsonne Eduard made a quick impact when he came on but was eventually subdued. The occasion looked too high a step for Mikey Johnston.
In his post-match interview, Brendan addressed suggestions that he should change his style of play for these matches, citing Leipzig and this game as certification that it can work. Last night had the concession of a third central defender, at the cost of an attack-minded player. We should also caveat that Valencia were two goals up from the game in Glasgow, with little to prove.
The manager is not for changing his high press game, so devastatingly successful domestically, but so open to debate in Europe.
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I hope Hayes continues where he left off on Thursday, he had a fantastic game.
He deserves a wee run in he team considering the bad luck he has had with injuries.
Is he Celtic class???? Jury still out, but he can only do his best and hopefully BR can develop him further.
Unfortunately for Johnny, KT will be coming back to his position, but confidence is everything in football, and maybe Hayes can move forward 1,2 positions and continue to produce.
D. :)
Jonny Hayes…first name on the team sheet
Good to see that the revisionist fake WW1 / WW2 history posted by CQNs ‘right wing’ is being rebutted.
Interesting to hear Brendan Rodgers take on Sectarian Chanting.
I hope this whole scenario is not the opportunity the Scottish government have been looking for to launch OB @ Football Act .Rev1.
BIG GEORGES FAN CLUB- same here when posting from a Samsung ….
This is a genuine question as I can’t claim to have have any legal training nor sufficient knowledge to judge for myself. (BRTH are you there).
On the subject of “sectarian” singing, who decides what is sectarian and what is not. I know the courts have decreed the Billy Boys to be illegal – was it sectarian or religious or bigotry or all of the above.
I looked at the definition of sectarian and it references “sect” and “religion”.
Which is where my question comes from, is “Orange” covered as a sect, because it’s not a religion. Similarly “Fenian”.
Personally I think when suffixed with “bastard” they become offensive – certainly distasteful as a minimum.
As for ending the chants, once there is a clear definition, it shouldn’t matter whether it is an offence in the legal sense, fine clubs and deduct points is surely an effective measure.
It then becomes encumbent upon the clubs to educate their supporters, and supporters would certainly self-police when they know it could affect the team’s league position – possibly relegation (for real) in the case of Newco.
For people having trouble posting can I suggest downloading the DuckDuckGo browser. Its available from the Play Store. One thing it doesnt save any history and you may have to tweak the settings for it to save your current session. It wont save your password either.
Supersutton
In terms of criminal law, section 74 of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act applies in terms of aggravated offences, per:
“(a) …the offender evinces towards the victim (if any) of the offence malice and ill-will based on the victim’s membership (or presumed [by the offender] membership) of a religious group, or of a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation; or
(b) the offence is motivated (wholly or partly) by malice and ill-will towards members of a religious group, or of a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation, based on their membership of that group.
In this section, “religious group” means a group of persons defined by reference to their—
(a)religious belief or lack of religious belief;
(b)membership of or adherence to a church or religious organisation;
(c)support for the culture and traditions of a church or religious organisation; or
(d)participation in activities associated with such a culture or such traditions.
…”
From the above, derogatory references to such as “Orange” and “Fenian” fall bang in the centre.
The majority of charges are (since the demise of OBAF) brought as breaches of the peace aggravated by religious prejudice, per the above definition.
There are further such aggravations in a range of other laws that protect such as race, disability, sexuality, ethnicity/nationality and so on.
In civil law, the extent of protections is considerably wider, and includes sex, gender, maternity, age and so on (the protected characteristics of the Equality Act).
Coincident with the demise of OBAF, Lord Bracadale has published recommendations for the consolidation of the various Hate Crime laws into a more definitive statute, which you can read here: https://www.gov.scot/publications/independent-review-hate-crime-legislation-scotland-final-report/pages/1/
One of the issues is the status in law of songs/chants in support of “terrorist organisations”. OBAF captured these explicitly as offences. Prior to that prosecutions were made under the Terrorism Act (as expressing support for banned organisations), with some regrettable consequences. What happens subsequent to the repeal of OBAF is as yet unknown (by me at least).
You’ll note in assorted press reports/opinions increasing references now to “sectarian and terrorist” chanting, primarily because, as above, with the repeal of OBAF it’s unclear whether “terrorist” chanting is against the law but “we don’t like it”.
My sense is that we’re (Scotland) all still too immature, too wrapped up in our own wee definitions and traditions, to address it adequately. We still can’t separate what is (or ought to be) offensive at law with what we take (or ought not to take) personal offence at.
Until we grow up, we’ll continue to embarrass ourselves with our 19th century legacies.
A magic mushroom affected Rangers Leg end speaks to the press…
“For me personally, there is mafia in the SFA, in terms of they are run by Celtic. The newspapers are exactly the same and that’s obvious. You can see it from a mile away”.
Nacho Novo
HH
What’s the script with Oli Ntcham ?
If he’s still injured does anyone know what the issue is, and how much longer he is out for?
—————Bain——————-
Toljan. Ajer. Jozo. J.Hayes
—-McGregor Christie——
Forrest. Burke. Sinclair
————Edouard—————-
How can referring to some one as an Orange B be construed as being sectarian? The OO is by definition a sectarian organisation, despite their denials, as evidenced by the annual parades and their wee ‘cultural’ add ons. Neither are members of the OO strictly adherents of one single church. Its membership coming from many denominations that fall under the umbrella of ‘Protestant Christians’ – Free Presbyterian, Presbyterian church of Scotland etc. Now if one were to call someone a ‘Proddy / Protestant B’ – 100% Sectarian.
Little doubt that some ‘catch all’ badly thought out law – OBAF mk2 – will be heading our way soon.
BIG GEORGES FAN CLUB – HAIL, HAIL, WEE OSCAR on 23RD FEBRUARY 2019 11:21 AM
I get problems just like you outlined. The comment box text changes to a lighter colour & the cursor has disappeared. I have to click back in that box to get the text back to normal colour to restart typing.
I also get a freezing of the screen if I try to scroll down too much or too quickly.
It only happens on CQN – nowhere else. It started about 10 days ago but I initially put it down to my PC or some signal problems.
Mods or Paul if you’re around – FYI
The Batttered Bunnet @ 1.35
Thanks for posting that.
Your comments about what folk in Scotland will likely do/npt do also rings true.
HH
Hi Bhoys
Re The problems you are having posting. It can be easily fixed.
Don’t post so much ?
KEEP THE FAITH
Sunday probably not the time to experiment, but I would like to see Ajer get a chance in midfield,
Jozo & Boyata at the back with Ajer pushing forward in the Broonie role.
Oglach
The Orange Order is a “Protestant Fraternity”. It is not even debatable that referring to someone as an Orange bastard is caught by the law. It is, fore-square, as it ought to be.
Is it just me that is constantly winning a £500 Amazon voucher through google
Fed up winning this, already good about £3000 worth today
Someone else can get them if they want
Paul67 – can you please get these adverts sorted – I sent you a copy a few weeks ago
Constantly takes over the screen
The other day i suggested that the twitter video doing the rounds justifying Bachman’s red card looked doctored.
Having watched the official tv footage from behind the goal his arms went up once.In the hun twitter version from the side there are two movements one to elbow with hands going up and then a second hands up movement plus the speed looked strange.
My son who is a film school graduate and stepdaughter who is studying film at college both said it was clearly doctored when i sent them the link.
Those cheating huns have no shame or limits.
The overturning of Bachman’s red suggests i was correct as the twitter video had him clearly guilty.
While i am no expert on editing phone videos in my 30 odd years in advertising i have worked on hundreds of tv commercials and understand how easy it is with modern technology to manipulate images.
I hope Celtic employ an expert at least as a consultant on video technology as these scumbags will do everything they can to cheat
TECHNICAL PROBLEMS:
Details have been passed to Web Designers to resolve.
Can’t comment on the reasons – well above my I.T. pay-grade! :-)
THE BATTERED BUNNET@2-1
Surely a judge well versed in the Glaswegian vernacular would see it as the friendly greeting it normally is?
Guys turn off java script, I done it last year and it’s amazing.
Only thing is if you want to watch any vids posted or links you have to go back in and turn it on.
Settings>advanced>java script and turn off.
D. :)
Sorry
Settings> then your browser, say safari> advanced> Java script and turn off
D. :)
I thought it was all just ‘banter’ © James (Jabba) Traynor
The winner of the Sevco equivalent of the paradise windfall on Wednesday night, apparently scooped £2,500. On arrival for collection he was given £1,000 and ‘told to come back next week for the rest’
True Stories CSC
The Battered Bunnet
So my calling someone an illegitimate member of an inherently sectarian organisation renders me liable to prosecution in Scotland because the organisation is a ‘Protestant fraternity’? And you actually agree with this?
The % of those who march as part of orange walks or as supporters who regularly attend church in Scotland will be in single figures. It will be higher in NI I suspect (because more of their church goers are bigots!)
As for ‘Fenian’, most on here will well know that it’s origins are political, not religious per se.
Given the accident of birth into a CoS family and my political convictions it’s quite feasible I could be called a Proddy Fenian bastard!
I’d have happily pointed out that I was more of an Ecumenical Fenian (non) Bastard!
That could have been the test case that destroyed the OBAF!!
TAL CSC
HH JG
jamesgang on 23rd February 2019 3:43 pm
However we also know that the term ‘Fenian’ in Scotland was used to describe those of the Catholic faith. Hence songs such as ” Billy Boys” being proscribed.
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 23RD FEBRUARY 2019 3:35 PM
The winner of the Sevco equivalent of the paradise windfall on Wednesday night, apparently scooped £2,500. On arrival for collection he was given £1,000 and ‘told to come back next week for the rest’
True Stories CSC
Last season , a hun won it,all he got was £500 and a table of 4 at hospitality…
The Battered Bunnet.
Many thanks for that and I concur with your conclusion whilst noting that the term “sectarian” is nowhere to be seen.
Wolfe Tone was an Orange Fenian Bastard.
Bold Fenian Men CSC
BADA
The gift that keeps on giving
But only if you can come back next week
Oglach
I hear you Fhriend. I wonder if it’s the Fenian reference that is designated as sectarian in the song and/or the bit about their knees and blood? There’s an entire legal career for the asking here…..
I do note, respect and love how so many -including Bhoys on here – have ‘unrepentantly’ claimed it as a badge of defiant honour.
HH jg
BOURNESOUPRECIPE
Did they tell him it would be 1690 with interest?
Jamesgang, Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmett, Henry Joy McCracken, Thomas Orr, Lord Edward Fitzgerald, Thomas Davis, Charles Stuart Parnell, Sam Maguire etc etc. You are in good company.
The anti – Celtic industry is not the property of the Edmiston Drive lot. It was the SFA not them who requested the Irish Tricolour not fly at Parkhead. Jim Farry didn’t even like football. However the anti Celtic bias is on the wane in Scotland and its only the media who breathe hot air into it. Because Celtic are the best team, and in a football-loving country that works wonders. And because the rest of the people in Scotland are not that bothered about what religion anyone is nowadays….with some notable exceptions obviously. As far as chants go I would let the people sing. It’s freedom of expression. Does that put me on the CQN right wing?
As far as tomorrow’s game is concerned, I, like Corkcelt, would like to see Ajer in our captain’s position in midfield. I would have Tierney back, if available and have Hayes in front of him, dropping Sinclair. The rest picks itself.