We gave STV credit on Wednesday for their reporting on SPL voting process required to decide what to do if a new company applies to join the league after an existing team ceases to exist (through prepack or other means).
I subsequently noticed in the same article they suggest Leeds United went into liquidation and returned with a phoenix prepack. This is incorrect. Leeds United, then in administration, were sold in 2007 to Ken Bates’ newly formed company, with Bates agreeing a deal with creditors. Leeds were, therefore, only liable for the statutory 10 point penalty for entering administration, although the league increased the punishment to 15 points as the club failed to follow correct administration procedure.
I don’t wish to harangue STV on what was an article with genuine information but they cite Leeds as a precedent: “there is no guarantee that the Scottish Premier League would act in the same way as their counterparts in England but the similarities between the regulations mean that the precedent may be used as a guide”.
If I was Rangers right now I would be trying to convince everyone that putting a football club out of existence, only to allow another company to pick up its league share, with a points total calculated from the position of the former club, is similar to a common administration. It’s not. This would be a completely different scenario.
Having discussed this matter with many people throughout the game and the media, I can find no precedent for a football club going out of existence and phoenix-ing back into the same league spot.
Airdrieonians failed in 2008, when the owners of Clydebank FC moved to Airdrie and renamed to Airdrie United. Gretna FC were voted into the space created by the absence of Airdrieonians (then a Second Division team), but entered at the bottom of the Scottish Football League.
Gretna failed in 2008 and a new club based at the same ground successfully applied for membership of the East of Scotland Football League. Annan Athletic entered the bottom rung of the Scottish Football League after Gretna’s demise, not into the First Division spot Gretna were unable to fulfil. Third Lanark were in the bottom division of the Scottish Football League when they were replaced by Clydebank.
Gretna-Annan, Clydebank-Gretna, Third Lanark-Clydebank are the only precedents that exist. If you fail, the team that replaces you joins the bottom rung of the Scottish senior league structure, there have been no exceptions, in Scotland or in England.
The SFA have a say in this matter also. They must ratify any decision of the SPL board and grant a licence to a new club before if can play in the SPL or Scottish Football League. The national association is made up of member clubs, most of whom stand to gain considerably if a Rangers Newco FC were to enter the Scottish Football League.
Irrespective of the SPL’s decision, the SFA better have some pretty good lawyers if they deviate from precedent. The football authorities have a duty to ensure their competitions observe meritocratic and moral correctness. It’s only ‘fit and proper.
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greenjedi says:
4 November, 2011 at 16:06
I would say any football club who has a lot of debt would back the teams to remain in their spot or not be massively penalised.
This would give a few clubs an angle to rid themselves of their own debt.
I think the SPL & SFA know this. Has Gordon Smith been brought into Rangers as he has contacts at the SFA? He doesn’t do much if anything at all. Why is he there?
I think Romanov could be a big bluff. I think he is testing the resolve of the situation. If Rangers get a very little punishment then he will do the same and the dominoes will fall across Scotland as Paul67 alluded to in his title the other day.
It’s a very risky time for the integrity of the game and Dignity FC could bring the house down. It is imperative for the future of Scottish football that they are punished accordingly.
I honestly can’t see how they can wriggle out of this one but they are sneaky, sleekit chancers who have no shame and they would sell their own mothers to save Der Hun!
All I would say is the champagne is on ice until I see the gates being locked and someone saying it’s over.
Brian Dempsey could be wheeled out again.
‘The Hun is over. The rebels have won!’
LB
ibleedgreenandwhite1 says
fair play to you sir HH.I hope the first thing Neil done at full time, was tell Samaras he would start on Sunday.We need to reward guys who come in and perform well.
Stuart Mcall wins ‘Manager of the Month’.
That is traditionally a bit of a poisoned chalice.
We need to win on Sunday.
Paul67
Two great articles in one day!
I don’t know how you young fella’s can do it, especially after all those stairs!
Please let me know if Olivia opens a CQN account!
Why would they huns want to rename Murray Park?
They should be proud that guy helped them into reformation dropping their pungent history.
Rise from the sashes.
Would abstention kill the 90%, just thinking,clubs might fear reprisals from the hoard, a very real threat
derbyshirebhoy says:
4 November, 2011 at 16:11
Yes that will be the case in their eyes, however it is up to the rest of Scottish football to ensure the newco starts where it should – from the bottom. It is up to rest of Scottish to ensure their fans never forget their lack of history, the fact their hostory has gone because a sizeable portion of it was procured with money they didn’t have. It is up to the rest of Scottish football to continually remind them the reason they had to start from scratch was due to their financial mismanagement, forcing other clubs to spend what they didn’t have to try and compete and bringing many Scottish clubs to their knees financially.
It is up to each and everyone of us to ensure they never forget that they’re not the same club, irrespective of the jerseys they wear.
hh
bjmac
DBBIA
Did Lasley not get “player of the month” too?
The hun press is really doing all they can do.
6-0 on Sunday Celtic please!
On current form the Mothers are second best in the SPL,and we’re only seventh.
But we all know what they say about form!
DBBIA
Smoke alarms not allowed in the Gazebo. TBB.
dbbia
And Keith Lasley won player of the month. Double poison. Red card for Lasley on Sunday a certainty. Although it’s the return of Charlie Richmond so that will be evened up with 2 for us.
Bjmac
Spot on,I’d like to see the support release a public statement to say we no longer recognise the history of the previous with the new incarnation.
Paul67
Of course what drove the clubs mentioned into administration was not paying their creditors including HMRC.
However as far as I remember none of them indulged in a scheme that enabled them not to pay the proper tax due and when found out appeal that the tax is not due and carry on (as BRTH mentions NOT making any provision to pay and indeed taking on excessive debt in the pursuit of depriving other clubs of the rewards that might have come their way had Rangers not spent what they borrowed on wages.
But the cherry on the cake is not only did they do that, they CONTINUE to pursue avoiding paying taxes through insolvency tricks and expect to get away with just a points penalty.
Aye right.
They should be tried in the court of Scottish football for crimes against our game, them and their laptop poodles.
History will not be denied.
Philbhoy- I would have settled for the default 5-0, but no, go for it!
Today is the first Friday in three years no one has declared the huns will go into administration.
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire says:
4 November, 2011 at 16:20
Yes it would, Celtic and one other abstaining would result in the the huns newco being refused entry, is my understanding.
hh
Eurochamps – a strident smoke alarm going off would shatter the ambience created by ole Goldstar10s e-piano e-musical e-treats.
I understand that the huns will go into administration this afternoon.
johan
と( ° . ° )つ
Free Glen Daly
Who’s Shane McGowan?
Glen Daly could sing the pants off him, and if he was with us today he’d be in the Glee Club and the Gazebo.
DirtyOldTownCSC
Philbhoy – It’s just the beginning! says:
4 November, 2011 at 16:22
DBBIA
Did Lasley not get “player of the month” too?
The hun press is really doing all they can do.
6-0 on Sunday Celtic please!
Really shocked Naismith didn’t get player of the month cause he needs a wee lift at the moment.
LB
LB
3 (a few more could dragged into the fight)clubs are battleing relegation. Self preservation should kick in.
Hibs and us hate them.
If the clubs with huge debt try to emulate them by using prepack, who would put the money up to intially make the process possible.
I hopefully infer from this article that the ‘tic posse PLC, are, as we speak, already encamped behind a big strategic boulder, in an elevated position, sharpening their legal cross-hairs through cold, steely, determined eyes. Prepared, finally, to head them shysters off at the pass.
Celtic boss Neil Lennon reveals training pitch concerns: Celtic are looking at their Lennoxtown training…….
Newco rangers will be a separate and totally independent entity, with no legal connection to the old rangers. They will have no liability for old rangers debt or their tax liability. The argument that ‘a club should not be allowed to liquidate and reform at the expense of just a 10 point penalty’ does not apply as the newco will never have been in liquidation. Whether you like it or not, you cannot mention liquidation as an argument for rejecting newco’s SPL application, they’d have you in court quicker than jack flash.
They will simply be the company which has bought the assets at auction and has presumably applied for the spare SPL license. Stop thinking about who might own them, it isn’t relevant to the SPL’s thinking.
This is also why they can’t parachute in mid-season and inherit rangers points so far, they’re not the newco’s points and were accumulated before the newco even existed.
What I don’t understand though, if there’s a spare license up for grabs, why wouldn’t Ross County, Falkirk or Livingston apply for it? Surely their applications would have more merit than a start-up company.
Bjmac,
I was hoping that was the case, I think that will be their end. Clubs will be afraid to be seen to be against them, but not supporting their financial philosophy by abstention will be the end. I hope
Chairbhoy says:
4 November, 2011 at 16:38
wycombebhoy @ 12:43
”Are you guys enjoying a pint while watching the games anywhere, Id try pop in ?”
It would be great to see you and catch up, watching the games is very sporadic since they stopped showing them down the Irish Club – the old bhoys (i.e. Big P’s Dad, Uncle etc) go down the Liberal club, but as they don’t have ESPN it’s hit and miss – and the big ghuys don’t go out so much.
Having said all that there’s a good chance there will be a few of us down Yates in Frogmore (the Litten Tree) for the Motherwell game (the blue nose Motherwell postie is back in town, so you might get the chance to see him upset (again)).
I’ll check and get back to you – I haven’t got your contact details but we can sort something out.
Has Mr Whyte got your number?;-)
Greenjedi
The idea of who votes for what matters not a jot.
What matters is that the only club in Scotland with integrity and a support to match votes.
They are ALL dependent on Celtic wanting to play ball and it is up to every Celtic supporter to tell Celtic, individually or via associations and Trusts what ball we now want to play with.
Any short term gain at the expense of integrity will fail in the long term as it would simply enable what has gone wrong to happen again.
The game needs leadership and statesmanship to set the right course and Celtic are best placed to provide it.
The begging bowl (as they would have us) has switched sides.
sondoferin
the legal precedent in Scottish Football is that the division the liquidated team is in and those below it) has no relegation or one fewer team if 2 or more teams are relegated and a non league teams are incited to apply for the vacant slot in the bottom division.
sorry invited, not incited ;-)
Really enjoyed watching the highlights from Celtic – Real Madrid game from 1980 on ESPN last night. It was the first European game I went to and my first night game under the massive floodlights, and until last night I don’t think I had seen any TV pictures from the game.
Latchford
Sneddon McAdam MacDonald McGrain
Provan McLeod Aitken
McCluskey Lennox Doyle
Happy days.
But did anyone watching it notice how tight Laurie Cunningham’s shorts were? We’re talkin’ Daisy Duke hotpants that had shrunk in the wash.
JohnnyClash says:
4 November, 2011 at 16:47
Watched it last night masel.
Great team that.
Murdo: What a player
Provan: My boyhood hero. Great performance. Why is he so bitter now?
Johnny Doyle: What a header!
Roy Aitken: Just a Bhoy but getting wired in.
Danny McGrain: The finest Scottish full back ever.
The others weren’t too shabby either. Miss the old Celtic Park when it was that full.
LB
TheOriginalSadiesBhoy : Been down this way about 20 years now, yeah I’ll definitely say to Thomas when I see him…if he’s not lurking and reading this himself ! Did you have Mark Wilson at St. Francis btw, he is from Broomhouse too.
LB
Danny McGrain: The finest Scottish full back ever.
Miss out the word Scottish is more correct!
:-)
The French Perspective..
http://www.staderennais.com/index.php?rb=22&id=AT6990
I just had a dreadful vision of Heart of Rangers FC.
New stadium at Larkhall. God shiver has gone down my spine.
Livi
I was in the Rangers end that night. The thing I noticed from watching it on telly last night is that the singers from both The Fratellis and The View obviously ask their barbers for a ‘Roy Aitken circa 1980’.
Loved the way Ian St John kept referring to “this young fella MaGloud”.
Hearts’ first team players have finally received salaries that were overdue from 16 October.
The news comes 24 hours after the squad were persuaded not to make a formal complaint to the Scottish Premier League by manager Paulo Sergio.
The frustrated players were ready to sign a letter of complaint addressed to SPL chief executive Neil Doncaster, asking him to intervene in the matter.
And the players’ union had been exploring breach of contract issues.
It is not the first time Hearts have delayed payment of their staff and players but this episode marked the lengthiest period of uncertainty.
Hearts are over £30m in debt and BBC Scotland understands the Edinburgh club are aiming to reduce the wage bill dramatically in a major cost-cutting exercise.
Owner Vladimir Romanov this week expressed his reluctance to continue to plough money into the club and the Lithuanian-based banker may look to offload several high earners in the January transfer window.
I watched the Real Madrid game from 1980 too, very enjoyable. Amazing how the poor pitch had no effect on the fast football, very little grass, well rolled perhaps.
I know it was only highlights but the singing was non stop from the Jungle. Thankfully Danny McGrain has finally begun to look his age (he looked 60 from about 18 years old).
Funny how we reflect on timelines sometimes. Bobby Lennox was still playing in that game in 1980, it was only 13 years on from Lisbon. 1980 is within my era of watching Celtic but Lisbon is my old man’s era and seems a lifetime ago. 13 years ago Wim stopped 10-i-a-r, that’s the sort of Lisbon time perspective for the fans in 1980 watching us play Real Madrid.
The centenary season is closer date wise to 1967 than it is to today.
Not sure where I’m going with this post, so I’ll bid you all a fabulous and victorious weekend, Hail Hail and Mon the time travelling hoops!!