There is a degree of relief (in some quarters) mixed with surprise that Hearts creditors have agreed to a CVA, allowing the club to exit administration. Although administration seems to be a natural state for many in Scottish football, remarkably few have subsequently gone to the wall in the last 100 years.
Third Lanark perished in 1967, an exception during many decades of solvent behaviour. Airdrieoneans (not to be confused with the current club by that name, which is the renamed and relocated Clydebank FC) were liquidated in 2002, with the chastising words of creditor Sir David Murray ringing in their ears. Oh how well irony played its hand.
Murray’s own club, Rangers (not to be confused with the current club by that name), were next to be liquidation after creditor, HMRC, stuck by their published rules and rejected a proposed CVA.
Apart from this, a remarkable series of campaigns, such as ‘Well worth saving’ and ‘Save the Jags’ has seen supporters step forward and find the money to save their club from that ominous fate.
There appears to couple of rules if you want to escape liquidation. Try to ensure 75% of your creditor value is owed to shareholder-creditors or the bank. Many clubs survive on directors’ loan accounts, which are ultimately forgiven in administration. Banks too have been reluctant to kill the local totem, with good commercial reason.
The major thing to avoid appears to be breaking tax law. HMRC are prevented by its own terms of business from forgiving tax debt which has been run up through illegal tax evasion. This was the case at (original) Rangers, who conceded some of their tax dealings were not legal during 2012’s Lower Tier Tribunal. The balance of cases are disputed and currently subject to an Upper Tier Tribunal.
Hearts success makes for an interesting SPFL Championship race this season. With three games to go Dundee hold a two point advantage over Hamilton. The winner will go up, second place will face a play-off, but neither club will fancy fighting Hearts for promotion next season. I can imagine the despair elsewhere to the news that Hearts will be a Championship club next season. Poor Ally will need to get his game together.
Remember, John Hughes will be on CQN tomorrow morning. Tune in with your questions for him.
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Winning Captains…..
Still remember Arthur Montford’s commentary as Yogi closed in…….
Broke my heart as a wean it did……..
My auld da still won’t talk about Milan….bit like me with a hot Spanish City where Jock Wallace and Ted McMinn used to stroll hand in hand through the gay quarter.
BigJockmyherounderestimatedthemCSC
Within Scottish football above should read.
HH
Riskorrie
My team in Birmingham is called Norfolk and Chance (say it 3 times very quietly)
We wear the hoops. My knees are killing me from my real playing days, but how many more chances do you get to play in the hoops. Been down to Mobile a few times coaching, nice place. You are in Brazil, a friend of mine used to coach the youths at Botofogo.
Hail Hail.
Aiden
Hope you feel like that after 34 season tickets, by which time there might have been many more Sevcos.
Strongly disagree with Auldheid re LNS.
LNS is an ex-Law Lord who when it suits can do whatever he wants.
His “no sporting advantage” and acceptance of Sandy Bryson’s Alice in Wonderland interpretation of rules was nothing short of dishonest.
Anybody heading down to Blackpool this weekend for the Footy tourney
Mon The Cleland
ElDiegoBhoy
19:32 on 16 April, 2014
Aiden Bhoy
Similar thoughts from me. We live in good times as Celtic supporters and far better times success wise than our loved ones no longer with us were able to enjoy.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
WELL SAID! I AM WITH YOU LADS. I LIVED THROUGH SOME BAD TIMES FOLLOWING THE CELTS – THESE ARE DEFINITELY GOOD TIMES AND I ACTUALLY PRAISE THE BOARD FOR BEING CUTE ENOUGH TO STEER US THROUGH STORMY SEAS.
Auldheid,
I also heard Jeanette Findlay speaking at the AGM. She is an accomplished and articulate publc speaker. But, imo, she used language that was confrontational, even condescending and patronising about what she perceived as the stance of those she felt did not agree with her, in particular the Board. Again imo, not a good way to move things forward.
Big Nan
That’s the point I made last night. Bring in UEFA or the FA when needs be.
HH
awe naw , so it’s stupidity continuing to support the club you have all your life , tell you what let’s all chuck and throw in the towel and let win. Exactly what is it you want the club to do ?
auldheid…
Absolutely correct.
The point I was trying to make was had the TT come to the decision most experts expected the whole environment in which future decisions by LNS, SPL, SFA maybe even Celtic would have been so different.
Any empathy/sympathy for the ‘plight’ of Rangers would have been seriously compromised by a full guilty decision. The FACT of illegality would have had a material impact on the LNS decision, which you will remember was ‘guilty’! Nobody could possibly claim there was no sporting advantage.
Good Evening One and All.
Reading back I would want to throw my hat into the ring with opinions on a number of topics.
First– The Living Wage.
Let’s be absolutely clear — this was not a motion which was debated at the AGM abd voted down. It was a resolution which was more or less unanimously approved by those on the floor at the AGM and was defeated in terms of numbers by the block vote of the proxy voters who were aligned to the board.
As Paul reported at the time, never in the history of Celtic PLC had the board been so far apart for the main body of shareholders. In terms of a simple show of hands the resolution would have been almost unanimously carried.
Now ask yourself why that motion was defeated?
There is, De Facto, only one answer — and it is an unpalatable one.
Those who control the club, according to Ian Bankier on the day, took the view that should the motion be approved the cost to the club would be £500k which the board and major shareholders would rather spend elsewhere.
Accordingly, the simple economic argument won out over the notion of creating a principle by which the club would be known and for which the club would stand.
In my humble opinion, this shows the failure of the PLC structure to deal with the wishes of the “club” membership as a whole.
I think it is, and was, a mistake by the board of Celtic PLC and I think it is an issue that will return to see another day. Ultimately it is an argument that will be won.
Second
Resolution 12
With regard to the contention that this has been placed in the long grass — really sorry to report that this contention appears to be embarrassingly wrong. Those involved in the promotion of the resolution, the tactics surrounding the outcome of the resolution and the post AGM progress of the issues raised by the resolution are unanimous in their view of where Celtic stand on this and what they are doing about it,
To quote one such CQN’er commenting on the most recent developments, when asked his opinion he remarked as follows:
” I am as happy as a pig in shit with that!”.
Third
There is a notion abroad that the board of Celtic PLC have to be right or wrong on every issue and that whatever decision is made on any issue it all forms part of an overall board strategy.
My personal belief is that this notion is incorrect.
Not only that — I would suggest that just as there could be a better connection between the board of Celtic PLC and the fans, the very same could be said of the different departments of Celtic PLC itself.
Without going into any great detail, my own observations suggest that at certain points certain sections of Celtic do things and indeed say things which are disjointed and detached for the aims, proposals, objectives and strategies of other parts of the organisation.
Indeed I know for a fact that in relation to CQ10 certain arrangements were made through the proper channels for certain matters to happen and take place. In the end, someone high up in the food chain was left very VERY embarrassed when others within the club simply let him down, failed to perform their instructions, and so left the club and the person concerned deeply embarrassed as a result of being just plain stupid or forgetful.
As I said this morning, in many ways certain matters could be improved on hugely and some of the most reasonable, business like, and informed fans who stand on the outside looking in all think that.
Fourth
The true test of any administrative, judicial or semi judicial system is whether or not the people who come under the jurisdiction or auspices of that system are prepared to accept the rulings or decisions of that system and whether or not they are prepared to follow and accept the arbitration of that system in the event of dispute and division.
It is patently obvious, that virtually no one involved in Scottish Football has any faith the in the SFA and possibly the SPFL.
That is sufficient indictment for me and by necessity determines that the football fan must not and should not accept the existing status quo whether supported by their club board or not.
Celtic, in their own way, challenge the football authorities. Many on here want them to be more stringent, more aggressive, more public, more dynamic, more forceful.
The interesting thing is that in many respects we are unanimous about what we want them to be more stringent, more aggressive, more public, more dynamic and more forceful about — so— eh — why the rancour?
The answer to that is also simple when brought down to brass tacks.
The reason for the rancour is because whether you are the chief executive of Celtic PLC, or the guy that sits in the north stand in section 202 row pp seat 14, or whether you are someone who watches matches solely from the comfort of their armchair, or whether you are a visitor from Mars — in the event that you ask certain questions of the hillbilly football authorities in this country you will not be given a straight goddam answer.
This is either because the authorities themselves are staffed by idiots and born liars or because the same people are just plain stupid and come from hicksville!
It is abundantly clear to all that recruiting en masse from Hicksville cannot continue — but effecting change takes some considerable time.
Lastly — some if not all of this Hullabaloo started with the failure to Identify the club from Ibrox as THE Rangers as opposed to Rangers.
We now know that the actual wording appears to have been dictated by the Scottish Schools FA.
I wonder if they sought any guidance from the SFA or the SPFL as to what they should call the club from Ibrox?
No matter what way that question is answered someone is damned to hell.
The membership of the council of the Scottish Schools FA can be found here http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/ssfa/scottish_football.cfm?page=1548
and the members of the President’s committee can be found here
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/ssfa/scottish_football.cfm?page=1547
Parkheahcumsalford
Yeah honesty and accurate assessment is a qaulity that our plc bristle at. I agree she should have flannelled and got their respect.
HH
Big Nan 20-00
Excellent piece ….
boondock saint 20:09
Hope your Botafogo youth coach mate wasna Eduardo Hungaro? He’s been having a real hard time of it wi the club these past few months.
Anyone in here advocating Tims not to renew season tickets is a Hun, as far as I’m concerned, bring in all your pals to back you up and say how great a Tim you are, naaaaa, doesent wash with me, yer a Hun, and the more you keep advocating it the more I will call you a Hun, not even up for debate, none of this,,awe but this…awe but that, yer a Hun, so you can GIRUYs. Off to watch the game. HH
Meanwhile in the Sevco changing room
Aff oot to watch the Copa del Rey, I reckon this will be this Barca team’s swansong.
Riskorrie.
His name is Rui Menizes.
Don’t know if he is still there. Always talked about how bad the clubs where about paying people on time
The pic on the cqn facebook page of craig whyte in disney land posing with a celtic fan is one if the funniest things iv seen this year
Today & tonight shows me the differing opinions that we have and also thank Goodness yous are on my side :)))
If they had input like is alive and well on here from some of their own they may not have died but alas THEY DID.
Keep giving your views one & all.
good night all
Googybhoy, Ginger and Neustadt Braw
Thank you so much for your kind comments on my bhoy Gavin’s blog. Really appreciated by him.
I’ve a bit of a chest infection that I cannot get rid off, hence I have not been posting but I have been lurking and bmcuw is got it coming to him when I get back.
Keep the faith!
Bhoylo83
https://twitter.com/Pmacgiollabhain
bournesouprecipe
19:43 on
16 April, 2014
thomthethim
“Ich bin ein Berliner”
****
What!!!?
You are a German sausage in a finger roll?
Goodness, gracious me!
BRTH…..
Are Celtic Plc acting in the interest of shareholders or stakeholders?
You know the difference mate.
Are we a clumpany?
Hmmmmmm……
I posted this email earlier that I sent to the SPFL
.
.
could you please clarify something on your website please.?
On your official website under………….. Clubs > Rangers > Honours
You have listed various league titles and various cup wins dating from 1894 to the present date under the club Rangers. This also includes some entries for European Competition.
The team you are referring to, which currently play in the 3rd tier of Scottish football were formed in 2012, after a former Scottish football club Rangers were liquidated on 4th July 2012.
I am sure that you will be aware that The Insolvency Act 1986 was passed to prevent the history of a liquidated entity being transferred to a new entity.
Why is it that you have included trophies won by a past (and now liquidated club) among those won by a club that have only been in existence since 2012, including a European Trophy & European Runners-Up honours when this club have never, ever in their short 2 years of history played a competitive European game (in fact this club are NOT elegible to play in such a competition due to a lack of 3 yrs accredited accounts which are required for entry.)
I believe i am correct in saying that this team formed in 2012 have won 2 titles……2012/2013 & 2013/14 and are current Ramsden’s Cup Runners Up..?
Now my take on this is……. either your website is displaying a genuine mistake in showing this past history that has no legal connection to the Rangers club formed in 2012, OR you are showing a blatant disregard to The Insolvency Act 1986……….perhaps you could confirm indeed which it is and whether you have any intentions of rectifying such a glaring error.?
Yours Sincerely and looking forward to your response
Andy Kennedy.
this was the reply i received………………..
David Ogilvie davidogilvie@spfl.co.uk
I am out of the office until Thursday April 17 and have limited access to my e-mails. Please call the switchboard on 0141 620 4160 if your query is urgent.
I shall resend the email tmrw, in the meantime if anyone wishes to use the above contact details, you’re very welcome
wontbebrushedofjustlikethatCSC
ohhhhhhhh
Craigy I hope :))
https://twitter.com/shaunpaul67/status/456351026396684288/photo/1
tinytim
17:24 on 16 April, 2014
Cannot disagree with a single word you have said …..
Auldheid, I refuse to believe Celtic are powerless and are leaving it to you to ask the questions. They are not conflicted.
BILLYBHOY 05
Ah,you saw my wee quip about Salmond this morning!
Get well soon,bud. Listen to yer administering angel.
Why does he keep picking Neymar …?
Big Nan
20:00 on
16 April, 2014
Reading back – what you said.
This is/was a wasted chance which will never come back, a chance ‘our loved ones’ never had. I’ve seen comments on the farce on here over the last few years including the fact that any creditor of rangers fc could run amock in the courts over the re-appearance of sevco if they had the stomach/finance. We were/are a creditor (circa 40k?) and have done hee-haw.
HH
It’s been better than reading the usual cybernats verse cybernays
Hail Hail
boondock.
If it’s Paulo Ruy Menezes, he’s still at ‘fogo. And, they’ve no changed, still terrible at paying on time, but they do pay – eventually. Usually.
Cheers
Received SEVILLE in a gift today ……fandabadozie …!!!!!!!!
BIGNAN…..
Brilliant again……
Consistently brilliant sir……
Wish you would take these bassas on full time…..
67 heaven
Cause he thinks he’s magic …:-))
BSR
Aucht is better than that
Read and heard all the arguments regarding STs
For me it is quite simple…
I am nearly sixty. When I was young I remember asking my dad ” where are those men going?”. “Son they are the privileged few – season ticket holders”.
Now I reckon I had no idea what that meant but did ask ” can we get one Dad?”. “Oh no son, not available for the likes of us” he replied.
When Fergus provided the opportunity I grabbed it and bought two more for my boys as well.
It would take a hell of a lot for me to even consider giving it up. “not available for the likes of us”…. absolutely made available for the people, the likes of us in fact.
HH