Last night my brother reminded me of a comment he made after the 0-0 against Benfica on match day one of the Champions League, “I hope we’re not sitting with one point after five games”. Expectations can be as high as you like, but reality based on experience at that stage suggested Celtic would struggle to have more than a single point at this stage of the tournament.
A solitary point away from home in our Champions League history would lead the harsh realists to expect our trips to Lisbon, Barcelona and Moscow would be fruitless, leaving the enormous matter of tackling Barcelona at Celtic Park.
Two of those away games resulted in defeat, and we were behind in Moscow before one of the most significant fight-backs in modern Celtic history. It’s difficult to find perspective for the win over Barcelona. Suffice to say, they won 0-2 in Lisbon and 0-3 in Moscow. Celtic’s 2-1 remains the most astonishing result of this season’s Champions League.
Manchester City’s failure to qualify for the knock out stage, with their seemingly limitless budget, tells the story of how difficult this tournament is. England’s other mega-wealthy club, reigning European champions Chelsea, sacked their manager this week as the expectation they are likely to be eliminated at this stage dawned.
Beating Spartak and qualifying for the knockout stage will be suitable reward for a remarkable team.
The very first CQN Annual is NOW in stock and shipping order yours here! P.S. it’s great.
In case you missed the story, check out the Celtic Trust’s ‘Stand up for the Green Brigade‘ call on the 12th minute on Saturday. Full details on the Trust’s site.
P.P.S. Stand up for the Green Brigade.
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it has to be the round of 16 for me.
then the round of 8.
and we can take from there.
in all honesty i would wish to avoid dortmund , they just seem to be the team on form to me.
also were did i put my vovosalagh???
stand up for the green brigade
K K
2 mins ago you didnt know who St Jude was now ur demoting him,? G F Y.
Xavi assures Celtic fans Barcelona will go out to beat Benfica
STV 22 November 2012 09:40 GMT
Xavi has assured Celtic fans that Barcelona will not let up against Benfica next month.
Barcelona midfielder Xavi has reassured Celtic fans that his side won’t rest on their laurels when they face Benfica in their final Champions League group match.
Neil Lennon’s men go into their final group match against Spartak Moscow with work to do while the Portuguese outfit face a trip to the Camp Nou.
And despite the Catalan side already gaining a place in the knock-out stages, Xavi insists they will be going all out to take three points.
He said: “Barcelona only ever play to win as that is the only way we know.
“We are happy we have won the group with a game to go – but that does not mean we will not be looking to win the final game.
“Winning produces momentum and we won’t want to break momentum by relaxing and thinking it doesn’t matter. Whatever players Barcelona put out it are capable of beating any team – especially when we are at home.
“We have no alliance, we don’t care who progresses but we will play fairly and we will play to win.”
Got to go, lunch over…
Until we meet again…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Ok, we’ll the shareholders in liquidation got a ride on a roller coaster for 10+ years for their bucks. Do you think they really care about anything else. Would they have got more out of their investment if the ebt scheme was not used? Doubt it.
I guess the point is that they now have nothing …… You may have a point on that one but having effd the Fenians all that time they probably mostly feel its ok given the verdict
I may be misunderstanding you though
SPL Rules
D1.11 Any Club Playing an ineligible Player in an Official Match and
the Player concerned shall be in breach of the Rules.
D1.13 A Club must, as a condition of Registration and for a Player to
be eligible to Play in Official Matches, deliver the executed
originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or
extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements
providing for payment, other than for reimbursement of
expenses actually incurred, between that Club and Player, to
the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service
or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the
case may be, extended.
D9.3 No Player may receive any payment of any description from or
on behalf of a Club in respect of that Player’s participation in
Association Football or in an activity connected with Association
Football, other than in reimbursement of expenses actually
incurred or to be actually incurred in playing or training for that
Club, unless such payment is made in accordance with a
Contract of Service between that Club and the Player
concerned..
Selected Comments From FTTT Document.
Page 38 , Para 159
The side-letters,
while not disclosed to the SFA, were in reality part of the player’s contract with the
Club. The players expected to receive the monies paid into trust.
However, according to
Mr Thomson, given that the burden of proof rested on the Appellants, it had not been
shown that the side-letter benefits were other than part of the contract of employment
of the players.
Para 160
Rangers had promised to ensure that even if the trust arrangements
ceased, alternative arrangements would be made to give the players their agreed net
pay. That crucially was the underlying reality.
Para 161
Side-letters, of course, had not been registered with the football authorities, the
SFA and SPL. The spirit of their rules was that the whole contract terms should be
registered. Suspiciously, no evidence was led as to who decided that the benefits in
terms of the side-letters should not be registered. Non-registration of side-letters was
40 incompatible with both authorities’ policing and disciplinary powers. For example
any fines imposed on players would customarily reflect the disclosed wage. Nondisclosure
would thwart the authorities’ powers.
Page 39 Para 163
On any view, Mr Thomson argued, Rangers could have sought a ruling from
the SFA or SPL about disclosure of side-letters but, clearly, they had chosen not to do
so. There was a conscious decision to conceal their existence, 5 and that extended even
to the Club’s auditors.
Page 23 Para 98
In instances where disablement insurance had been negotiated
for players, the amount of cover tended to include both direct wage payments and
payments into trust.
With regard to the notion that,when a player sustained a lengthy spell out through injury,the FULL amount of his pay (including ebt element) was claimed/paid out it would appear Mr Klos (Eversham) is a case in point.
Thoughts?
Last 16 for me too. Keep away from the Germans and Spanish and just maybe our first 1/4. but before that we have to beat the Russians and they will not be easy.
Team against ICT,
Forster
Lustig Rogne Wilson Matthews
Kayal Wanyama Ambrose
Lassad Hooper Samaras
Celtic 3 Inverness 0
Jude,
I knew who he was 70 years ago.
I have been on talking terms with him since then.
Still think our deceased neighbours would have to go to the Top Man himself.
Good Luck.
Joe f, if they have nothing to win there’s nothing to lose.
I’m hoping they send the under 12 ladies team seeing as they have games against Ruben and Zenit either side of us.;)
Mindya, a 10-0 win for Celtic will do nothing without the help of our Catalan cousins.
Soneoferin
Apologies. Last post just jibberish. Rushing to get back to work ……
Hail hail
50 Shades of Green – Dortmund indeed look formidable as do Schalke but Bayern are my favourites for the trophy. If we finish second we draw a group winner. I think we’d be in with a chance against Shakhtar, Man Ut or perhaps Malaga. Arsenal could also finish top and would not be too bad to get. These are all teams that are capable of brilliance but also mediocrity.
I wouldn’t fancy any of the German teams or Real Madrid.
Afternoon all
Who was quoting me yesterday may I ask?
K K
God bless you my son.
The fact that the Huns cheated us for 10 years can never be fully redressed, The FTT verdict wouldn’t have cured it, and what cannot be cured must be endured. Nimmo if he strips Titles will go a bit of the way towards it and we will just have to wait & see what comes out of that.
Afternoon all.
Last 16 for me too.
Paul67 when’s this annual being delivered ,that’s two days noo.
VP-Is there a colouring in section in the Annual for you? :}
All we can do is make sure we win our game ad worry about what happens in Barcelona afterwards.
Mind you we have a few domestic games first.
The stench of hypocrisy from the MSM is revolting
Bill Leckie use his column to attack the timternet bampots and their flaw of not being able to correctly judge the HMRC Tribunal judgement.
Hmm you are correct the HMRC judgement didn’t go fully the way we expected it. But if this was one single error the MSM had several thousand. It’s just a pity he himself wasn’t able to correctly judge it either, along with a host of leading Ipox figures
David murray, called it wrong, otherwise he wouldn’t have sold them down the river for a quid
Duff and Phelps Appointed by RFC, called it wrong and added the HMRC bill onto the oldco debt
Charles Green, called it wrong too, otherwise he would have paid the due debt and waited for the result of the tax case before he chose to liquidate the club he owned. He himself freely chose not to wait and bankrupted oldco with some haste, in case the HMRC decision didn’t go his way.
I wonder what the list of individuals and businesses, who were left out of pocket, when Charles Green folded the oldco, think of Leckies ridiculous claims.
But billy boy seems either unaware or not admitting that the oldco PAYE/NI liability, plus the oldco residual debt plus the oldco bank debt paid by craig whyte, plus the ticketus debt are significant sums of money to walk away from. And walk away they did….
Nor is Billy boy aware or admitting that if 1 single oldco player played 1 single game with a side contract, then the internet bampots will push to make sure that the letter of the law is followed and that oldco are docked 3 points per game. No hypocrisy just following the rules. Its not like we want to change them to suit anyone, we would just like to follow them for a change.
And even though the EBT scheme was judged to be legal, it was definetely not moral and starbucks and amazon and other find themselves subjects of boycott calls for similar avoidance strategies. David Murray banked millions of tax free money while honest businesses took the hit when they folded with large piles of unpaid debt. Contrary to MSM opinion.
And if the Taxman decides to appeal, then the case is once again “undecided” and the sevco woes may well continue. Let’s hope they do…..
But the Combined IQ of the MSM will never understand that. Their failure to point out that if Charles Green himself felt that the EBT case was not lost, then he had the opportunity to simply pay the due debt and wait to see the result of the big tax case. He chose not to. That was his own free choice, it was not the taxman, it was not the SFA, It was not the SPL it was the owner of oldco. His own free choice. I wonder if the MSM will chose to bring that up. I very much doubt it. A mistake like that might affect season ticket sales
By the way the vitriolic attack on RTC just shows how deeply the MSM were undermined and embarrassed. The fools still believe that their opinion is final while fans opinion is worthless
Thats the thing about zombies, they can’t think clearly
A place in the 16 for me.
And some of this for the club –
UEFA Increases Champions League Payout, Which Now Tops $1.2B
Published September 17, 2012
UEFA will distribute a total of €910.3M ($1.2B) to all 32 teams participating in the ’12-13 Champions League season, which starts on Tuesday, according to the SID.
The fund is €156.2M ($205M) larger than last season’s total of €754.1M. Bonuses of €500.7M ($656.8M) will be available to the teams, while the remaining €409.6M ($537.3M) will enter the market pool. The three German clubs in the Champions League, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04 have already received €8.6M ($11.3M) in appearance fee.
During the group stage, a win continues to bring in €1M ($1.3M), while a draw earns the team €500,000 ($656,000).
Advancing to the knockout stage pays €3.5M ($4.6M).
Reaching the quarterfinal and semifinal is rewarded with €3.9M ($5.1M) and €4.9M ($6.4M), respectively.
The losing team of the Champions League Final at Wembley Stadium on May 25 will receive €6.5M ($8.5M), while the winner gets €10.5M ($13.7M) (SID, 9/16). .
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000
14:10 on
22 November, 2012
Afternoon all
Who was quoting me yesterday may I ask?
—————–
couple of guys, a mr murray and some guy Al, with a funny accent and weird hair.
we told them never heard of you.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000
Can’t remember who quoted you, but the gist of your quote was that Kenneth Mure QC was not a Hun.
Emerald bee
£3m qualifying bonus for making last 16 in CL.
That’s before we sell a ticket/corporate etc !
Big bucks just for one home game,
When the draw for the CL was made we were the bottom seed. We were the bottom seed for a reason, mainly our recent European results. The problem about being the bottom seed is that UEFA will drop you into a group with three other sides that are expected to be better than us. We will need to punch above our weight in every game.
The fact that we are now heading towards the final game with 7 points in the bag, and an opportunity to make it 10 points (would that be the best ever points tally for a Scottish side?) is impressive.
Now spartak Moscow are the bottom of the group, but that doesn’t mean they are cannon fodder or anything like it, but if I had to select a team from our group, to play at home, to guarantee a last 16 place, the Spartak are the side most of us would have chosen.
In the event that we do fall at the last hurdle, we will still end up in the Europa League, and we are not a side who can afford to look down on that tournament as if it is beneath us. A decent run to the last 16 or quarters would be very nice too.
Either way it been one of our best Euro runs for a few years, and probably not many would have expected us to go far.
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000
14:10 on 22 November, 2012
‘Afternoon all
Who was quoting me yesterday may I ask?’
I alluded to your post yesterday, though didn’t quote it.
I quoted a little bit of it earlier today.
Essentially you were saying that Mure was a steadfast, conscientious and fair minded individual.
Maybe he is.
But I find the stark contrast between his (and Rae’s) assessment of the evidence and Dr Poon’s assessment of the evidence troubling.
Carrigan , at 14.02
Pal…
Sammi..is jist no the Same..well.. Sammi..
agin DOMESTIC Competition..
Sammi..is Strictly.. a BIG,BIG, Game Player!!
No..
A .. WEE ,WEE, Game.. Player!
Why is that?
Don’t ask Me..
Ah jist Tell it Like it Lays.
So… Knowing .. That..
Sammi, Should Be Rested..agin the Northern Cluggers.
He is no needed..and He widnae dae Much.. anyway.
Ah see that Ye hivnae goat.. Tony…doon, as a Starter..
Bad, Move,pal.. Bad, Bad.. Move.
Tony,is oor very Best Bet.. as a Starting Striker..
Ah wid Team him ,wi… Eethur ..Hooper or Lassad…Tak yer pick..
Miku?
Na… He is too prone tae Fa’oan his Be-After.
Did ye notice that he .. Fa’s doon.. aloat?
Ye didnae..?
Well. Ah hiv.
Ah hope Jamesie..is Ready.. He should Be.. if he is No.. then Ah wid Plump
fur.. Dylan McGeough.
Ah wid.. Pick Jamesie/ Dylan..in a Mid-Field… composed o’
Jamesie/ McGeough, Victor, Ambrose, Commons.
Wi…
Tony, and Hooper..or Lassad.. as the Striking Duo.
The Rest o the Team picks itsel.. that is if.. Darling Charlie,is FIT tae Fight.
and that wid Be..
‘
Forster
Lustig, Matthews..
Wilson n Charlie.. ( if Charlie is indisposed.. then.. Rogne wid Dae)
Nice Chattin’
Kojo
Still, Laughin’.
and Jist in.. Fae the jiggin’
The minority judge paid it seems more attention to the paperwork that the others. Here are her views on some of the witness statement from Mr Scarlet
Mr Scarlet or Mr Ipswich page 85?
“Mr Scarlet gave a vivid account of what happened on the eve of the match and
how the agreement was reached. ‘I went on the training pitch’ – ‘something I never
do’ – said Mr Scarlet, in order to speak to Mr Violet the manager. Mr Scarlet said he
then ‘went to the track side and, when training finished, as Mr Ipswich came off the
pitch, knowing that [he] wouldn’t now see [Mr Ipswich] until the following night’, he
said to Mr Ipswich, ‘Look, we need to sort these bonuses out’ (Day 13/49.14-21).
Mr Ipswich, the captain of the squad, was somewhat vilified by Mr Scarlet as ‘the bad
apple in the dressing room’ (13/42.11), ‘an awkward character’, ‘one of the greedier
players’, with ‘money as his driver’, and that ‘he would probably at times use his leverage as the captain of the club in the public aspect to any sort of dispute being
damaging to the club as part of his leverage in negotiations’ (Day 13/40.20-42.14).
Mr Scarlet said that he thought ‘it was maybe a tactic of [Mr Ipswich’s], he delayed
the whole process right up until the crunch of before the game because it was worth a
lot of money to the football club’, and that Mr Ipswich was asking for ‘this exorbitant
figure’ (Day 13/50.8) on the eve of the match and that eventually according to
Mr Scarlet, ‘Okay, I think it was £25,000 contribution to the Trust and he would be
happy with that, and at that point that was it completed’ (Day 13/49.23-25).
I find this the most compromising account to Mr Scarlet’s own credibility as a witness.”
I do like Christoper Brookmyre’s recent tweet
A mighty spectacle , Jim Traynor in willing role of David Murrays attack dog: seamless transition from succulent lamb to truculent bam.
play
Re supporting boycott’s of Celtic games.
The GB played a fantastic part in generating the atmosphere at the Barca game. They conducted themselves well in registering their views on Remembrance Sunday by respectfully staying away.
Their boycott of Celtic home games won’t include Spartak but the next two home league games. I don’t understand why hurting Celtic Football Club financially gains their cause any leverage with Strathclyde police or the filming unit.
The Green Brigade don’t turn up and then expect Celtic fans to stand up. Does that not sound a bit daft?
Is it cognitive dissonance to believe that the result of the ftt was engineered to take it to the utt?
jude2005 is neil lennon \o/
13:06 on
22 November, 2012
Vmhan
Sorry to hear about your dad, YNWA.
………….
Thank you Jude et al.
We gave him a good auld send off and my dad would have been proud, we’ll be doing it all again when we take his ashes over to Ireland.
Shall my soul pass through old Ireland.
V
Vmhan
When you up next , would like to arrange a wee meet , will put it in a envelope this time .
HH
Buddy Morrissey…. at 14.45
Of . Course .
It’s Daft, in fact , it’s Mair than ..Daft..
It’s…
Whacko!
The G.B. are behavin’ like a Loata wee weans..
Fur..
If they hid any Mallam… which.it seems. they dinna..
They wid ..
‘
Demand a List of the Rules of Conduct.. from the Glasgow Police..which they ur required tae follow…if they want no Harrassment fae the Glasgow Police..
and when they Goat it..
THEY WID ADHERE TAE EVERY SINGLE RULE.. oan THAT LIST..
and. then..
The Glasgow Police. widnae be able tae Harrass them.. any Mair…
We wid Get back.. tae ..whit the Main Stream Celtic Fans…
‘
want tae dae…which is..
Watching the Game..
Kojo
Still, Laughin’
Ernie/All
Ken Muir QC is certainly nothing other than a very decent guy.
I was discussing the judgement last night with Blantyre Kev, Paul67 and the Battered Bunnett who I see comes in for some special treatment today alleging that he is RTC!!
The Judgement is pretty clear to me and I can understand the logic of both the majority and the minority.
Based on the presentation and admissions by HMRC that they accept as a legal reality that the trusts and the loans from the trusts are real, enforceable and are not a sham in the true legal sense— the majority took the view that it was impossible for the assessments to stand because those assessments were based on the money being paid over being the absolute property of the players and employees of Murray/Rangers.
It is impossible for HMRC to say that these sums were salaries and taxable on the one hand, and then hold that the trusts that they were paid into were legal and operative when the payment was made AND at the same time recognising that the loans made by the trusts with that money were also legal, properly constituted and enforceable on the other!
Having so concluded the first two judges more or less looked no further.
Dr Poon on the other hand, looked beyond the admission by HMRC that the loans and trusts were properly constituted and were legal, and so went onto and took notice of the individual documentary and oral evidence in far greater detail– with the conclusion that this evidence pointed to the fact that notwithstanding the the legal niceties of properly constituted loans and trusts– the whole thing was intended to avoid tax.
The problem is that there is law that seems to say that if payments are made to lawfully constituted trusts which then make legally binding and properly commercial loans– even if they are badly administered— then the money can’t be classed as income as it is not in the absolute control of the employee.
If you were to ask me which side of that case I preferred to argue— then I would have to say that the Majority point of view is the more persuasive in strict legal terms— with the minority point of view being far closer to the truth of the evidence and the intention of the parties as Doctor Poon suggests.
I will write on this later as i think there is good reason why we waited for a 159 page decision that has been delivered in the manner that it has.
Remember that these three have only been asked to determine whether or not these sums paid into these trusts on these days were taxable in terms of the tax legislation– and nothing more!!!
There could be many other legal questions asked about this money– where it came from, where it went, and what creditors think of the position adopted in court by BOTH sides.
I will try and get my full thoughts out later. but I agree with Ernie and indeed Jim Traynor.
A The fat lady has not necessarily sung on this issue and
B Do not rush to judgement here— many things were conceded and you don’t know the detail of that yet.
Many of the concessions, the evidence and the findings of the FTT may well yet have resonance way beyond the walls of a tax court!!!
Awe naw no another oan anaw noo
you know what
ahve figured it oot after awe these years!
tell me whit ye think (he said speaking in the vernacular so elokwent..ello..hella fitsgerald awe these years)
Forget about vision forget about the SFA and SPL cheating philvistines
Celtic are great and the huns suck.
I’m stickin tae that! jings!
What else is there?
….phew!
that felt great .. thanks guys!
BTW are there any random charities ah can contribute to today to enhance that Tim feel good factor?
or maybe some hun obliteration society of the ne’er-do-wells I can contribute 50p..just askin like.
arranmorebhoylxv11@ 12:56
Didn’t experience any problems at the ground but I was there an hour before kick off
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000
15:01 on 22 November, 2012
Thank you for the response and I await your further thoughts with interest.
Any views on the tribunal sitting in private?
I had an uneasy feeling from the start that that decision indicated a frame of mind that was unduly receptive to the appellant’s arguments.
sorry had to go out earlier. i believe the ebt list is missing a few names. no cardigan or rco or fat sally for examplez. did mark daly not allude to some redacted names in his documentary.
apologies for typing style but using internet on my kindle. great what us old retired bhoys can do.
4 points on the GB situation…..
A law has been introduced and, however ‘weak’ it may be, CFC need to comply with that law..
The Police need to enforce the law………
As far as I can ‘see’ the GB are victims’ of a weak law, as witnessed by ‘no convictions’….
The GB will have to comply until the law is changed to be ‘sensible / reasonable’……..